Child Support as political pawn.

[JP Cusick]

There are laws in States but mandated by federal laws which has created a "parenting police" to enforce the oppressive and destructive Child Support system and it needs to be stopped - or at least needs some huge reforms.

As it is now it is ONLY-only poor and impoverished and dead-broke parents go to jail for the Child Support (for 6 months to 3 years then plus probation), so now we literally have hundreds of parents going in and out of jail in every American County, and thousands upon thousands of parents in and out of jail in every State, and we literally have millions upon millions of dirt poor parents going in and out of jail nationwide and it is not only an absurd process but in true effect the laws destroy the families by incarcerating the parents.

And the federal laws will put the parents into federal prison for five (5) years and if the parents had the money to pay then they would not go to jail nor to prison because only the low income and dead-broke parents get incarcerated and it needs to be stopped.

Most people fail to see that Child Support is a big political agenda and it is not a true effort to help children. There is a pretense that giving them money means helping the child(ren) but we know the children need their parents, and particularly need their fathers, but the well developed American doctrine has become that money is itself its own justification and that doctrine is not true and not real so that the laws are doing real long term damage to our society.

 

[Two Thumbs]

hmm

I agree with parts of that. There's no sense in putting an unemployed parent in jail b/c they ran out of money, or, in my case, I was making far less than my highest income level when my wife left. If I didn't pay a lawyer to be there I would have been paying ~80% of my current income in CS.

The only real issue I have is custody. In PA, the father must prove that the mother is physically abusive to have a chance at custody. The only other way is for the mother to be a 3 time loser.

but as far as support goes. If the guy simply refuses to pay, he must be punished for theft, or the family is left hanging.

 

[JP Cusick]

hmm

I agree with parts of that. There's no sense in putting an unemployed parent in jail b/c they ran out of money, or, in my case, I was making far less than my highest income level when my wife left. If I didn't pay a lawyer to be there I would have been paying ~80% of my current income in CS.

The only real issue I have is custody. In PA, the father must prove that the mother is physically abusive to have a chance at custody. The only other way is for the mother to be a 3 time loser.

but as far as support goes. If the guy simply refuses to pay, he must be punished for theft, or the family is left hanging.

Unfortunately I often run into this same attitude as quoted above - in that you see and know of the injustices and you know parents are getting railroaded and abused by the laws and the Child Support process - but then you put on that nasty last sentence which damns them all.

This is the truest meaning of self-righteousness (and I mean to explain and not to offend) in that you see your self as right and I agree that you are right and thereby righteous in this case, but you do not give the same honest regard to the other parents as you give to your self.

The laws do put unemployed parents in jail for Child Support but the law also puts employed parents into jail who can not afford the c/s demands and then those parents become unemployed.

Most poor people including dead-broke parents do work and do have jobs and the Child Support laws attack the parents and demand ridiculous payments even up to 65% and the unjust laws turn parents into criminals.

I agree with you that the custody laws are horrible too and giving custody to one parent means the law is effectively stealing the child(ren) from one parent and then demanding the c/s cash as ransom money or else they will never see their children again.

What the laws really do is destroy the family unit in some pretense of helping children by attacking their parents.

 

[JRK]

It is the pillar of abuse.
You have no rights and it has allowed the word and definition of marriage to become a joke. Paying child support along with the other events that go along with being that person is misery and to be put in jail because your broke is by far the stupidest thing I have ever seen behind electing Obama
Any way, The child deserves both parents, and both parents should have done the right thing to start with
What a shame marriage has become for so many,not all, but for some.
Once that marriage fails there are never any winners. It is the most destructive event in peoples lives that in the end leaves the child hurting the worse
The left in this country are so hungry for power they will condone the assassination of an evil man while calling water boarding torture, putting a person in jail for not paying child support who is broke makes as much sense. I am all for protecting ones right to to protect those who cannot protect them selves. Its one thing to go after a dead beat, another to go after a broke beat

 

[Dr.Drock]

This really sounds backwards, making parents financially responsible for their kids=ridiculous? Okie Dokie.


Here's a little personal side story; my stepmom has a 32 year old daughter, 2 years ago she was notified that she was getting a check in the mail to pay for the 18 years in which her ex-husband paid zero child support. While the check was in the mail she received another call from the gov't agency that the check she was getting was being cancelled because the father said that his company wouldn't be able to meet payroll for the week.

Ahhhh the efficiencies and beauty of the american government.

 

[Two Thumbs]

hmm

I agree with parts of that. There's no sense in putting an unemployed parent in jail b/c they ran out of money, or, in my case, I was making far less than my highest income level when my wife left. If I didn't pay a lawyer to be there I would have been paying ~80% of my current income in CS.

The only real issue I have is custody. In PA, the father must prove that the mother is physically abusive to have a chance at custody. The only other way is for the mother to be a 3 time loser.

but as far as support goes. If the guy simply refuses to pay, he must be punished for theft, or the family is left hanging.

Unfortunately I often run into this same attitude as quoted above - in that you see and know of the injustices and you know parents are getting railroaded and abused by the laws and the Child Support process - but then you put on that nasty last sentence which damns them all.

This is the truest meaning of self-righteousness (and I mean to explain and not to offend) in that you see your self as right and I agree that you are right and thereby righteous in this case, but you do not give the same honest regard to the other parents as you give to your self.

The laws do put unemployed parents in jail for Child Support but the law also puts employed parents into jail who can not afford the c/s demands and then those parents become unemployed.

Most poor people including dead-broke parents do work and do have jobs and the Child Support laws attack the parents and demand ridiculous payments even up to 65% and the unjust laws turn parents into criminals.

I agree with you that the custody laws are horrible too and giving custody to one parent means the law is effectively stealing the child(ren) from one parent and then demanding the c/s cash as ransom money or else they will never see their children again.

What the laws really do is destroy the family unit in some pretense of helping children by attacking their parents.

There's a difference between, can't pay and won't pay.

If you can't pay, you do get screwed, by getting turned into a criminal.
If you won't pay, you made yourself a criminal, and a jackass on top of it.

 

[uscitizen]

Mothers baby daddys maybe.

 

[editec]

Debtors prisons?

How Dickensian of us.

 

[JP Cusick]

There's a difference between, can't pay and won't pay.

If you can't pay, you do get screwed, by getting turned into a criminal.
If you won't pay, you made yourself a criminal, and a jackass on top of it.

I see this as what I tried to explain before about you being self-righteous.

You said and declare that you know the laws to be wrong and the only reason your self escaped the ruin was because of your Lawyer but then you do not give the same regard to other parents trampled by those same laws.

You were the rightful parent but other parents are the deadbeats.

The sad reality is that there are no "deadbeat" parents anywhere on the entire planet earth - not one.

The libel of "Deadbeat parent" is a political slander to degrade and demonize parents in order to justify the cruel and inhuman Child Support and Custody laws.

This is why we have dead-broke parents in jails and prisons all across the USA because the lynch-mob mentality has demonized parents (particularly fathers but Moms too) as being "deadbeats" and thus deserving to be punished even though they have done absolutely nothing wrong.

It is politically expedient to have a demonized agenda and in this case the attack is against parents by the ultimate parenting police system and it needs to be stopped - or else very much reformed.

 

[TheBrain]

Parents who abdicate their responsibility to pay child support (be they mothers OR fathers) should be charged with child abuse and thrown in jail. They are scum and I have no use for them.

 

[Moving to USA]

Mr. Cusick
You mentioned that you would consider answering questions that were not related to your main topic of concern.
If you could, I would be interested in knowing your thoughts on the illegal immigration problem that this country is now facing (legal and illegal are different subjects) and what you would be prepared to do to stop the flow into this country.
Considering the unemployment rate, and the high cost of unemployment benefits and social services, do you think that restricting the illegal entry could open some jobs that could be taken by those currently living off of the taxpayers dollars?
In my opinion, (valued only by me I'm sure) restructuring the system could put more people back to work, generate more tax dollar and reduce the expense of social programs currently stretched to the limit.

 

[DaGoose]

hmm

I agree with parts of that. There's no sense in putting an unemployed parent in jail b/c they ran out of money, or, in my case, I was making far less than my highest income level when my wife left. If I didn't pay a lawyer to be there I would have been paying ~80% of my current income in CS.

The only real issue I have is custody. In PA, the father must prove that the mother is physically abusive to have a chance at custody. The only other way is for the mother to be a 3 time loser.

but as far as support goes. If the guy simply refuses to pay, he must be punished for theft, or the family is left hanging.

Unfortunately I often run into this same attitude as quoted above - in that you see and know of the injustices and you know parents are getting railroaded and abused by the laws and the Child Support process - but then you put on that nasty last sentence which damns them all.

This is the truest meaning of self-righteousness (and I mean to explain and not to offend) in that you see your self as right and I agree that you are right and thereby righteous in this case, but you do not give the same honest regard to the other parents as you give to your self.

The laws do put unemployed parents in jail for Child Support but the law also puts employed parents into jail who can not afford the c/s demands and then those parents become unemployed.

Most poor people including dead-broke parents do work and do have jobs and the Child Support laws attack the parents and demand ridiculous payments even up to 65% and the unjust laws turn parents into criminals.

I agree with you that the custody laws are horrible too and giving custody to one parent means the law is effectively stealing the child(ren) from one parent and then demanding the c/s cash as ransom money or else they will never see their children again.

What the laws really do is destroy the family unit in some pretense of helping children by attacking their parents.

There's a difference between, can't pay and won't pay.

If you can't pay, you do get screwed, by getting turned into a criminal.
If you won't pay, you made yourself a criminal, and a jackass on top of it.

Now I find myself in a position where I'm forced to give Two Thumbs a pos rep. Horrors!!!

.

 

[TheBrain]

hmm

I agree with parts of that. There's no sense in putting an unemployed parent in jail b/c they ran out of money, or, in my case, I was making far less than my highest income level when my wife left. If I didn't pay a lawyer to be there I would have been paying ~80% of my current income in CS.

The only real issue I have is custody. In PA, the father must prove that the mother is physically abusive to have a chance at custody. The only other way is for the mother to be a 3 time loser.

but as far as support goes. If the guy simply refuses to pay, he must be punished for theft, or the family is left hanging.

Unfortunately I often run into this same attitude as quoted above - in that you see and know of the injustices and you know parents are getting railroaded and abused by the laws and the Child Support process - but then you put on that nasty last sentence which damns them all.

This is the truest meaning of self-righteousness (and I mean to explain and not to offend) in that you see your self as right and I agree that you are right and thereby righteous in this case, but you do not give the same honest regard to the other parents as you give to your self.

The laws do put unemployed parents in jail for Child Support but the law also puts employed parents into jail who can not afford the c/s demands and then those parents become unemployed.

Most poor people including dead-broke parents do work and do have jobs and the Child Support laws attack the parents and demand ridiculous payments even up to 65% and the unjust laws turn parents into criminals.

I agree with you that the custody laws are horrible too and giving custody to one parent means the law is effectively stealing the child(ren) from one parent and then demanding the c/s cash as ransom money or else they will never see their children again.

What the laws really do is destroy the family unit in some pretense of helping children by attacking their parents.

There's a difference between, can't pay and won't pay.

If you can't pay, you do get screwed, by getting turned into a criminal.
If you won't pay, you made yourself a criminal, and a jackass on top of it.

Here's an absolute fact for you. If you have child support obligations and pay at least $1 a month towards those obligations no state agency will ever declare you a criminal or come after you , and here's why.

Child support is set up on a computer database that no one ever looks at. They system is set up to alert Child Support Agents ONLY if a payment has not been made within the last 30 days. Even if you complain you will be informed that as long as some form of payment is made every 30 days the state won't go after them , not even to revoke their DL. They will garnish wages if they can find any however, and they will intercept tax refunds and that sort of thing. They just won't file charges.

So IF you end up in jail for failure to pay, it is completely and utterly your own fault. PERIOD. There is NO ONE in this country who shouldn't be able to make SOME kind of contribution towards their child's rearing on a monthly basis.

 

[Moving to USA]

Mr Cusick
What about those parents that have the children then leave, no payment coming at all.
The state ends up paying to support those children, and by extension its the actual taxpayer that foots the bill.
Now if for instance the situation is caused by the death of a parent, I have no problem with giving my money to that family to insure that the needs are met, but when those needs become required due to a parent just not wanting to even try to pay, then we have a totally different story.

The biggest injustice here is not how the law handles the situation, but that there are parents that just don't care enough, or are not responsible enough to take care of their own children without a threat hanging over their head.

 

[Barb]

There's a difference between, can't pay and won't pay.

If you can't pay, you do get screwed, by getting turned into a criminal.
If you won't pay, you made yourself a criminal, and a jackass on top of it.

I see this as what I tried to explain before about you being self-righteous.

You said and declare that you know the laws to be wrong and the only reason your self escaped the ruin was because of your Lawyer but then you do not give the same regard to other parents trampled by those same laws.

You were the rightful parent but other parents are the deadbeats.

The sad reality is that there are no "deadbeat" parents anywhere on the entire planet earth - not one.

The libel of "Deadbeat parent" is a political slander to degrade and demonize parents in order to justify the cruel and inhuman Child Support and Custody laws.

This is why we have dead-broke parents in jails and prisons all across the USA because the lynch-mob mentality has demonized parents (particularly fathers but Moms too) as being "deadbeats" and thus deserving to be punished even though they have done absolutely nothing wrong.

It is politically expedient to have a demonized agenda and in this case the attack is against parents by the ultimate parenting police system and it needs to be stopped - or else very much reformed.

The sad reality is that there are no "deadbeat" parents anywhere on the entire planet earth - not one.

Horse shit. I was married to (and stalked for 7 years by) a very dead beat dad. He paid his support, sometimes, but he didn't bother to exercise his visitation rights unless it was a tool to harass us. The whole time he had his son, while I was working, he was calling and threatening to 1) leave him unattended on my front porch if I didn't get straight home to catch him, or 2) take him to Canada and let me know I'd never see him again. In the second act, he'd put my son on the phone to "say good bye to mommy." Imagine how thrilled my employer was to have me working there, with all of this going on. Then there was the time when my 4 year old called me at work to let me know he was hungry, and daddy wouldn't wake up to answer the door for the pizza man.

Dead beat doesn't begin to cover it.

I never had those problems with my daughter's father. No court, no support, he just took care of his child, bought her what she needed, provided for her health insurance, and SHOWED UP every week. It wasn't the support payments that made the difference; my late ex husband turned into pond scum before I left him.

Do some, in fact many, get screwed by the way the system is run (especially at the initial point of contact with the system)? Yes, many do. But the child support laws were put into place to shield women and children from being forced to stay in untenable or abusive relationships simply due to the husband (or in some very rare cases, the wife) having the financial upper hand.

You simplify a very complex issue, but you seriously want to have an impact on legislation. I'm pretty sure you've already lost the women's vote, and any thinking male's as well.

 

[TheBrain]

There's a difference between, can't pay and won't pay.

If you can't pay, you do get screwed, by getting turned into a criminal.
If you won't pay, you made yourself a criminal, and a jackass on top of it.

I see this as what I tried to explain before about you being self-righteous.

You said and declare that you know the laws to be wrong and the only reason your self escaped the ruin was because of your Lawyer but then you do not give the same regard to other parents trampled by those same laws.

You were the rightful parent but other parents are the deadbeats.

The sad reality is that there are no "deadbeat" parents anywhere on the entire planet earth - not one.

The libel of "Deadbeat parent" is a political slander to degrade and demonize parents in order to justify the cruel and inhuman Child Support and Custody laws.

This is why we have dead-broke parents in jails and prisons all across the USA because the lynch-mob mentality has demonized parents (particularly fathers but Moms too) as being "deadbeats" and thus deserving to be punished even though they have done absolutely nothing wrong.

It is politically expedient to have a demonized agenda and in this case the attack is against parents by the ultimate parenting police system and it needs to be stopped - or else very much reformed.

The sad reality is that there are no "deadbeat" parents anywhere on the entire planet earth - not one.

Horse shit. I was married to (and stalked for 7 years by) a very dead beat dad. He paid his support, sometimes, but he didn't bother to exercise his visitation rights unless it was a tool to harass us. The whole time he had his son, while I was working, he was calling and threatening to 1) leave him unattended on my front porch if I didn't get straight home to catch him, or 2) take him to Canada and let me know I'd never see him again. In the second act, he'd put my son on the phone to "say good bye to mommy." Imagine how thrilled my employer was to have me working there, with all of this going on. Then there was the time when my 4 year old called me at work to let me know he was hungry, and daddy wouldn't wake up to answer the door for the pizza man.

Dead beat doesn't begin to cover it.

I never had those problems with my daughter's father. No court, no support, he just took care of his child, bought her what she needed, provided for her health insurance, and SHOWED UP every week. It wasn't the support payments that made the difference; my late ex husband turned into pond scum before I left him.

Do some, in fact many, get screwed by the way the system is run (especially at the initial point of contact with the system)? Yes, many do. But the child support laws were put into place to shield women and children from being forced to stay in untenable or abusive relationships simply due to the husband (or in some very rare cases, the wife) having the financial upper hand.

You simplify a very complex issue, but you seriously want to have an impact on legislation. I'm pretty sure you've already lost the women's vote, and any thinking male's as well.

Actually there are more dead beat moms in this country than dads FACT. Now it is true that men owe ore money , but more moms are behind than dads.

 

[Barb]

The Brain:

Actually there are more dead beat moms in this country than dads FACT. Now it is true that men owe ore money , but more moms are behind than dads.

IF that is a fact, and it seems unreasonable that it would be since a woman would have to be filmed blowing someone on Main Street with a crack pipe in one hand and a needle in the other arm, all the while collecting cash payment in order to lose custody in our family court system (which, btw, I do believe needs reform), there should be some authoritative data to back it up. Give or get out.

 

[High_Gravity]

This is interesting how much in debt do you have to be in child support to actually have to face jail time for it? I know in California they revoke your drivers license if you get too far behind.

 

[High_Gravity]

Unfortunately I often run into this same attitude as quoted above - in that you see and know of the injustices and you know parents are getting railroaded and abused by the laws and the Child Support process - but then you put on that nasty last sentence which damns them all.

This is the truest meaning of self-righteousness (and I mean to explain and not to offend) in that you see your self as right and I agree that you are right and thereby righteous in this case, but you do not give the same honest regard to the other parents as you give to your self.

The laws do put unemployed parents in jail for Child Support but the law also puts employed parents into jail who can not afford the c/s demands and then those parents become unemployed.

Most poor people including dead-broke parents do work and do have jobs and the Child Support laws attack the parents and demand ridiculous payments even up to 65% and the unjust laws turn parents into criminals.

I agree with you that the custody laws are horrible too and giving custody to one parent means the law is effectively stealing the child(ren) from one parent and then demanding the c/s cash as ransom money or else they will never see their children again.

What the laws really do is destroy the family unit in some pretense of helping children by attacking their parents.

There's a difference between, can't pay and won't pay.

If you can't pay, you do get screwed, by getting turned into a criminal.
If you won't pay, you made yourself a criminal, and a jackass on top of it.

Here's an absolute fact for you. If you have child support obligations and pay at least $1 a month towards those obligations no state agency will ever declare you a criminal or come after you , and here's why.

Child support is set up on a computer database that no one ever looks at. They system is set up to alert Child Support Agents ONLY if a payment has not been made within the last 30 days. Even if you complain you will be informed that as long as some form of payment is made every 30 days the state won't go after them , not even to revoke their DL. They will garnish wages if they can find any however, and they will intercept tax refunds and that sort of thing. They just won't file charges.

So IF you end up in jail for failure to pay, it is completely and utterly your own fault. PERIOD. There is NO ONE in this country who shouldn't be able to make SOME kind of contribution towards their child's rearing on a monthly basis.

Ah so as long as you pay something you won't have to go to jail? good info right there.

 

[JP Cusick]

Here's an absolute fact for you. If you have child support obligations and pay at least $1 a month towards those obligations no state agency will ever declare you a criminal or come after you , and here's why.

Child support is set up on a computer database that no one ever looks at. They system is set up to alert Child Support Agents ONLY if a payment has not been made within the last 30 days. Even if you complain you will be informed that as long as some form of payment is made every 30 days the state won't go after them , not even to revoke their DL. They will garnish wages if they can find any however, and they will intercept tax refunds and that sort of thing. They just won't file charges.

So IF you end up in jail for failure to pay, it is completely and utterly your own fault. PERIOD. There is NO ONE in this country who shouldn't be able to make SOME kind of contribution towards their child's rearing on a monthly basis.

There is not one once of truth in that and it is total rubbish.

If the Child Support enforcement has any record of the parent then they attach and garnish the c/s payment in full.

The only way that $1 a month will keep a parent out of prosecution is if the parent sends in the $1 but does not give any return address and can hide their income from the enforcers because the enforcers will indeed collect full payments by every means at their disposal including putting any dead-broke parent into jail.