Carvana Sucks? Going Bankrupt?

[DGS49]

I have recently read and seen a significant number of articles and videos badmouthing Carvana. They don't pay what cars are worth, they charge too much for the cars they sell, and they are on the brink of bankruptcy. Maybe so, but...

I am about to enter into my third transaction with Carvana. A couple years ago, I sold them by VW Touareg. They gave me a very competitive price (more than any dealer offered me in trade), and the transaction went without a hitch. The truck driver barely looked at the car when he picked it up.

I bought a VW Jetta GLI (Autobahn) in the same transaction. It was reasonably priced and in perfect condition. Again, no problems with the transaction, and there was a thirty day, no-questions-asked guarantee, in case I found something sketchy about the car.

Now, I'm selling my wife's BMW to Carvana and the same things apply. The price they offered was more, by far, and the other three sites I checked with. On Thursday I will drop it off and pick up a check. According to all their information, they will do a quick look-around and confirm that the car runs, and that's about it.

I will say, Carvana keeps sending me emails offering to buy my Touareg (again). So they ain't perfect.

Parenthetically, we are replacing the Beemer with a Tesla Model 3 Long Range. I got a three thousand dollar discount from Tesla, and will get both a $7,500 Federal tax credit along with a $2,000 Pennsylvania tax credit (my income was lousy last year due to stock losses), and my first six months of supercharging will be FREE. In terms of NET price, I'm geting a$48k car for something like $35 grand. Not only that, but the Tesla goes like stink and has a whole cornucopia of luxury and convenience features.

If there are no surprises - always a possibility - it should be a good week.

 

[toobfreak]

I'm geting a$48k car for something like $35 grand.

No, the rest of us are paying the other $13,000 on your car. Just think, in life, have you ever seen a good deal where they begged you to buy something and rewarded you for taking it?

 

[Meister]

Tesla I would think would make a good vehicle to go to the grocery store, or to a fast food joint.
But it wouldn't make a good touring vehicle. IMO

 

[Cellblock2429]

No, the rest of us are paying the other $13,000 on your car. Just think, in life, have you ever seen a good deal where they begged you to buy something and rewarded you for taking it?

/——/ Recharging an EV is equivalent to $17 a gallon. Why are we tax payers subsidizing your car purchase?

 

[toobfreak]

/——/ Recharging an EV is equivalent to $17 a gallon. Why are we tax payers subsidizing your car purchase?

I don't know about the recharging, but considering the vastly higher cost of just buying a comparable EV plus the added cost of having a battery to replace every ten years worth half the cost of the car, I figure on EVs costing the consumer an added $400 a month.

That is the price of a significant engine or brake job.

What idiot would buy a car needing that kind of monthly investment just to keep it on the road and think he was saving money?

 

[Cellblock2429]

I don't know about the recharging, but considering the vastly higher cost of just buying a comparable EV plus the added cost of having a battery to replace every ten years worth half the cost of the car, I figure on EVs costing the consumer an added $400 a month.

That is the price of a significant engine or brake job.

What idiot would buy a car needing that kind of monthly investment just to keep it on the road and think he was saving money?

/----/ Here's the story on the $17 gallon equivalent. I'm sure that in 10 years, technology will have advanced enough that the battery technology will change and the used batteries can be refurbished.

MSN

 

[DGS49]

I will be taking the Tesla to Florida in February (3,000 mile round trip). With a stated range of 315 miles, I'm figuring I can drive multiple three hour stretches (210 miles), charge-up for 15-18 minutes and proceed to the next stop. That aligns well with my 74 y.o. bladder capacity and my habit of taking short naps. I will experiment with different cruising speeds to see how much difference traveling 75mpg vs 65mph makes. If I remember correctly, aerodynamic drag increase as the square of velocity.

When speaking of "comparable vehicles" and saying the Tesla is more expensive than a "comparable" ICE vehicle, wake up. ICE vehicles that are comparable to a Model 3 long range are the BMW 3 series, Genesis G70, Audi A4, and Cadillac CT4, all of which would require their respective high performance versions to be "competitive" with the Tesla (0-60 in 4.2 sec.). All of the high performance versions would be well over fifty grand, and none would out-perform the Model 3 (long range).

 

[toobfreak]

I'm sure that in 10 years, technology will have advanced enough that the battery technology will change and the used batteries can be refurbished.

I'm not so sure. We are already near the technological limit for just how much energy and efficiency you can stuff into and get out of a battery. No doubt there will be some improvements yet, but I do not expect to see EV batteries become dramatically lighter, smaller, cheaper or more efficient, indeed, doing so might actually drive up their cost.

In science and physics, I live by the "no free lunches" rule: where one gains in one area, you tend to have to give something up in another.

 

[Cellblock2429]

I'm not so sure. We are already near the technological limit for just how much energy and efficiency you can stuff into and get out of a battery. No doubt there will be some improvements yet, but I do not expect to see EV batteries become dramatically lighter, smaller, cheaper or more efficient, indeed, doing so might actually drive up their cost.

In science and physics, I live by the "no free lunches" rule: where one gains in one area, you tend to have to give something up in another.

/——-/ Now, Li and his team have designed a stable, lithium-metal, solid-state battery that can be charged and discharged at least 10,000 times — far more cycles than have been previously demonstrated — at a high current density. The researchers paired the new design with a commercial high energy density cathode material.

Researchers design long-lasting, solid-state lithium battery

Harvard researchers have designed a stable, lithium-metal, solid-state battery that is far more efficient than lithium-ion batteries.

news.harvard.edu

 

[toobfreak]

/——-/ Now, Li and his team have designed a stable, lithium-metal, solid-state battery that can be charged and discharged at least 10,000 times

Perhaps. Interesting that it took a chinese scientist to invent a workaround battery when the chinese are the main beneficiaries as they supply most of the material to make them in the first place. Years of testing will be needed plus a cost analysis, further, an impact study on how the grid will supply all these high current demands. Fast charging means more people imposing shorter but high demands on the grid, plus, a high-current charging station could be very expensive to install in a home.

Still big, BIG money to do all of this, still obviates the high cost of EVs in general, especially when I feel a far better solution lays just over the hill in the next 20 years just as we totally commit to EVs in the form of the far better hydrogen fuel cell.

 

[Ralph Norton]

I will be taking the Tesla to Florida in February (3,000 mile round trip). With a stated range of 315 miles, I'm figuring I can drive multiple three hour stretches (210 miles), charge-up for 15-18 minutes and proceed to the next stop.

And you have mapped out those charging stations?
As for the 15-18 minute charges - have you allowed for the possibility that all of the individual chargers will be in use when you get there?

 

[Cellblock2429]

Perhaps. Interesting that it took a chinese scientist to invent a workaround battery when the chinese are the main beneficiaries as they supply most of the material to make them in the first place. Years of testing will be needed plus a cost analysis, further, an impact study on how the grid will supply all these high current demands. Fast charging means more people imposing shorter but high demands on the grid, plus, a high-current charging station could be very expensive to install in a home.

Still big, BIG money to do all of this, still obviates the high cost of EVs in general, especially when I feel a far better solution lays just over the hill in the next 20 years just as we totally commit to EVs in the form of the far better hydrogen fuel cell.

/——/ I agree the government screwed up going all in on EV. Fuel cells are far better. For now, hybrids make the most sense.

 

[martybegan]

I will be taking the Tesla to Florida in February (3,000 mile round trip). With a stated range of 315 miles, I'm figuring I can drive multiple three hour stretches (210 miles), charge-up for 15-18 minutes and proceed to the next stop. That aligns well with my 74 y.o. bladder capacity and my habit of taking short naps. I will experiment with different cruising speeds to see how much difference traveling 75mpg vs 65mph makes. If I remember correctly, aerodynamic drag increase as the square of velocity.

When speaking of "comparable vehicles" and saying the Tesla is more expensive than a "comparable" ICE vehicle, wake up. ICE vehicles that are comparable to a Model 3 long range are the BMW 3 series, Genesis G70, Audi A4, and Cadillac CT4, all of which would require their respective high performance versions to be "competitive" with the Tesla (0-60 in 4.2 sec.). All of the high performance versions would be well over fifty grand, and none would out-perform the Model 3 (long range).

you seem to have done the research, unlike most people who think they can drive EV's like ICE vehicles.

 

[jbrownson0831]

And you have mapped out those charging stations?
As for the 15-18 minute charges - have you allowed for the possibility that all of the individual chargers will be in use when you get there?

...or broken...or the adapter you may need

 

[toobfreak]

/——/ I agree the government screwed up going all in on EV. Fuel cells are far better. For now, hybrids make the most sense.

And yet they are suppressing hybrid success by not giving them any of the subsidies and discounts of EVs. Support and adoption of EVs could go much quicker and be far more successful in this country ultimately doing more for the climate, instead, they are screwing them over in favor of all electric which everywhere it is tried, fails to meet exceptions, needs and goals.

And now another big Biden Build Back Better infrastructure investment Proterra goes belly up.

Biden-backed electric vehicle company files for bankruptcy

President Biden frequently extolled an electric vehicle company — in which his energy secretary heavily invested — before it declared bankruptcy on Monday.

nypost.com

Shades of Solyndra. More money laundered in and through the left FOR the left.

When /doesn't/ the government screw up?

 

[Cellblock2429]

And yet they are suppressing hybrid success by not giving them any of the subsidies and discounts of EVs. Support and adoption of EVs could go much quicker and be far more successful in this country ultimately doing more for the climate, instead, they are screwing them over in favor of all electric which everywhere it is tried, fails to meet exceptions, needs and goals.

And now another big Biden Build Back Better infrastructure investment Proterra goes belly up.

Biden-backed electric vehicle company files for bankruptcy

President Biden frequently extolled an electric vehicle company — in which his energy secretary heavily invested — before it declared bankruptcy on Monday.

nypost.com

Shades of Solyndra. More money laundered in and through the left FOR the left.

When /doesn't/ the government screw up?

/---/ The government has no business picking winners and losers. They need to stick to the constitutional requirements, and that's it.

 

[DGS49]

When one uses the nav system in the car itself, the Superchargers on the route are highlighted. You are told what your state of charge will be when you reach the target. Tesla Superchargers have a 99+% availability rate. There is little concern that one will drive up and be disappointed.

 

[DGS49]

The Carvana transaction went off without a hitch. Five minutes and I had the check in my hands. (I assume it will not bounce).

Walked to the Tesla shop next door and that one took a little more time, but ended up fine. The Rep too helped me had a lot of gaps in his knowledge. Unfortunately, no Sirius or AM radio, which is basically all I listen to.

 

[Natural Citizen]

There is little concern that one will drive up and be disappointed.

Well you just never know...

 

[Couchpotato]

When one uses the nav system in the car itself, the Superchargers on the route are highlighted. You are told what your state of charge will be when you reach the target. Tesla Superchargers have a 99+% availability rate. There is little concern that one will drive up and be disappointed.

Probably true. For now, because not enough people own Teslas to make them unavailable.