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Can you be both a Progressive and an American?
Well, lets see what Progressives believe, and see if you can subscribe
1. The Declaration of Independence, and the Constitution are founded on the idea that people are born with inalienable rights, given by ones Creator, not by a legislative body or government that can decide which ones you have, and can remove them.
a. Not according to Progressives. Woodrow Wilson, of the Declaration of Independence, from What is Progress?
Some citizens of this country never got beyond the Declaration of Independence, signed in Philadelphia, July 4th, 1776 .The Declaration of Independence did not mention the questions of our day. It is of no consequence to us unless we can translate its general terms into examples of the present day and substitute them in some vital way for the examples it itself gives
b. Wilson: the Constitution could be stripped off and thrown aside ( Project MUSE - Journal of Policy History - Woodrow Wilson and a World Governed by Evolving Law Project MUSE Journals Journal of Policy History Volume 20, Number 1, 2008 Project MUSE - Journal of Policy History - Woodrow Wilson and a World Governed by Evolving Law
The Constitution stands in the way of the Progressives' agenda.
2. The founders believed in the sanctity of private property but not Progressives:
a. Madison, 1792, said that property included our natural rights, and the goal of government is the protection of property.
b. Woodrow Wilson, in his essay Socialism and Democracy said Limitations of public authority must be put aside; the state may cross that boundary at will. The collective is not limited by individual rights.
3. How about the idea of checks and balances, you know, so that no one branch or individual accumulates too much power? Good idea or bad?
a.Federalist #10- checks and balances, to keep passions in check.
b. Tocqueville tells how centralization of power can lead to despotism. Beware of government by experts and bureaucrats.
c. Woodrow Wilson, in his essay What is Progress? Wilson compares the Founders ideas of checks and balances as the construction of a government as one would construct an orrery, a simple machine, based on immutable laws as in Newtonian physics, while he contends that government should conform to Darwin. It is modified by its environment, necessitated by its tasks, shaped to its functions by the sheer pressure of life. No living thing can have its organs offset against each other, as checks, and live. See, Progressives want on separation or check on the power to do as they wish.
4. Progressives know how stupid the masses are, and that is why Progressive journalists editorialize instead of report the news to tell you what you should think.
a. : President Woodrow Wilson, a leading progressive, spoke often of his "vision," introducing a term that has now become central to our understanding of presidential politics. Wilson believed, as Kesler puts it, "that to become a leader you have to have a vision of the future and communicate that vision to the unanointed, mass public. You have to make them believe in your prophetic ability."
The Roots Of Liberalism - Forbes.com
b. Modern journalism is based on Progressives ideas: use the media to teach people. Alter journalism from reporting facts to editorializing in the news, as the elites always know better. Walter Lippmann, Progressive (American newspaper commentator and author who in a 60-year career made himself one of the most widely respected political columnists in the world.)Public Opinion, When properly deployed in the public interest, the manufacture of consent is useful and necessary for a cohesive society, because, in many cases, the common interests of the public are not obvious, and only become clear upon careful analysis of the collected data a critical intellectual exercise in which most people either are uninterested or incapable of doing. Therefore, most people must have the world summarized for them, by the well-informed. Public Opinion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
5.But thats the old time Progressive not the current group. Right? Wrong.
a. Does President Obama believe in three separate branches of government? Well, Congress refused to pass his commission idea, so in the SOTU he said hed just use executive order to create it. And he insisted that Congress overturn the Supreme Court decision or, I guess, another executive order?
b. Ms. Clinton: "I prefer the word progressive, which has a real American meaning, going back to the progressive era at the beginning of the 20th century. Hillary Clinton: Im Not a Liberal
c. Axelrod claims the WH is Progressive:
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☭proletarian☭;1967273 said:Speaking of that, progressives were the ones who got people like Political Chick the vote. I guess she considers that un-American. As I was pointing out, had Progressives lost that battle and women didn't have the vote, would that make our country more 'American'?
And imperialists
American imperialism was based upon big business.
That was the Right. Specifically, it was the whole 'ALCOHOL IS SIN!!!!!' crowd.
\
So Progressives are Leftists who led raids to rid America of Leftists?
Palmer Raids - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Red Scare was a tactic of people like you and McCarthy, remember? It was the Right wing again.
Negative Eugenics have always been led by the hard Right. In America, it was mostly tied to the WASP movement.
Are you trying to get your own show on Fox News? Will you be on after Beck and before Palin?
Yes, they do. The believe that women also have rights and they fought so you could vote.
You've shown no such thing
3. The rule of law and of property rights are inherent in the American system, and are not malleable to the whims of government.
Remind us who led the campaign to conquer Hawaii and ten tell me who fails to recognize sovereign territory.
4. Neither the Declaration of Independence nor the Constitution are outdated.
Yes, they are. That's why they had to be amended so many times. You know, like when we decided to let you vote.
Still trying to project America-hating CON$ as Progressive Liberals.4. Progressives know how stupid the masses are
September 3, 2008
RUSH: You know, it's a sad shame we've got so many stupid people in this country that we have to deal with, but we do.
December 10, 2008
DEMINT: Americans are not stupid.
RUSH: Yes, they are.
I see you have a new #4.Dunno but I'm pretty sure the founding fathers aren't progressive nor would they want to be progressive (allowing white male landowners being the only ones eligible to vote is one example of that).
Speaking of that, progressives were the ones who got people like Political Chick the vote. I guess she considers that un-American. As I was pointing out, had Progressives lost that battle and women didn't have the vote, would that make our country more 'American'?
And imperialists, at home and abroad, and responsible for Prohibition, the Palmer Raids, eugenics, loyalty oaths and a love of Mussolini and all things fascist.
But you are avoiding the point of the OP, which established the following about the Progressive agenda.
They dispute the following:
1. Men are born with inalienable rights, given by their Creator...not by any government or law.
2. That separation of powers is commendable, and so is the system of checks and balances in our Constitution.
3. The rule of law and of property rights are inherent in the American system, and are not malleable to the whims of government.
4. Neither the Declaration of Independence nor the Constitution are outdated.
Do you?
Can you engage in mud slinging and holier than though bullshitting and still be respected?
I'd hope not.
When the fuck did Wilson (or Hillary) become spokesperson for the progressives? Was there some press conference I missed?
When I open the USMB and find a negative rep, like the one I just found from this dolt, it becomes a curiousity to find why one poster would deem it advisable to use the neg rep, and this is how it appears to me: those who respond in a thread fall into one of several categories,
1. The thoughtful, intelligent poster who provide a cogent, point-for-point refutation of the OP.
2. The in-a-hurry poster, who may pick out one or two items to deal with.
3. The majority who read the posts, and move on without responding
4. The incensed, irate poster who may challenge the very creation of the OP, and be shocked that anyone would write such an OP
5. The foul-mouthed poster, limited in knowledge, but not in four letter words.
6. The A.D.D. poster whose post has nothing to do with the OP
7. And that brings one to Father Toad: the lowest level of poster: the neg rep poster. This cowardly fellow ignores the purpose of a message board, the open and public discourse and exchange of ideas. Following the Toad’s methods, what would be the attraction of a message board?
everything you have posted above is incorrect,.
Thank you for your service to our country.
The definition that you are looking for is in post #28, not the one you are interposing.
If the shoe doesn't fit, stop trying to put it on.
Dunno but I'm pretty sure the founding fathers aren't progressive nor would they want to be progressive (allowing white male landowners being the only ones eligible to vote is one example of that).
Speaking of that, progressives were the ones who got people like Political Chick the vote. I guess she considers that un-American. As I was pointing out, had Progressives lost that battle and women didn't have the vote, would that make our country more 'American'?
And imperialists, at home and abroad, and responsible for Prohibition, the Palmer Raids, eugenics, loyalty oaths and a love of Mussolini and all things fascist.
But you are avoiding the point of the OP, which established the following about the Progressive agenda.
They dispute the following:
1. Men are born with inalienable rights, given by their Creator...not by any government or law.
2. That separation of powers is commendable, and so is the system of checks and balances in our Constitution.
3. The rule of law and of property rights are inherent in the American system, and are not malleable to the whims of government.
4. Neither the Declaration of Independence nor the Constitution are outdated.
Do you?
And the REGRESSIVES blame the Budget Deficit and the Welfare State on women getting the right to vote!Speaking of that, progressives were the ones who got people like Political Chick the vote. I guess she considers that un-American. As I was pointing out, had Progressives lost that battle and women didn't have the vote, would that make our country more 'American'?
And imperialists, at home and abroad, and responsible for Prohibition, the Palmer Raids, eugenics, loyalty oaths and a love of Mussolini and all things fascist.
But you are avoiding the point of the OP, which established the following about the Progressive agenda.
They dispute the following:
1. Men are born with inalienable rights, given by their Creator...not by any government or law.
2. That separation of powers is commendable, and so is the system of checks and balances in our Constitution.
3. The rule of law and of property rights are inherent in the American system, and are not malleable to the whims of government.
4. Neither the Declaration of Independence nor the Constitution are outdated.
Do you?
So, in other words, yes, without progressives, PoliticalChic would not have the ability to vote.
Sounds too good/terrible to be true you got a source for those?And the REGRESSIVES blame the Budget Deficit and the Welfare State on women getting the right to vote!And imperialists, at home and abroad, and responsible for Prohibition, the Palmer Raids, eugenics, loyalty oaths and a love of Mussolini and all things fascist.
But you are avoiding the point of the OP, which established the following about the Progressive agenda.
They dispute the following:
1. Men are born with inalienable rights, given by their Creator...not by any government or law.
2. That separation of powers is commendable, and so is the system of checks and balances in our Constitution.
3. The rule of law and of property rights are inherent in the American system, and are not malleable to the whims of government.
4. Neither the Declaration of Independence nor the Constitution are outdated.
Do you?
So, in other words, yes, without progressives, PoliticalChic would not have the ability to vote.
August 8, 2008
RUSH: Now we're told the night Hillary speaks is the anniversary of women getting the vote, which is what started the welfare state that now strangles us, by the way. If women had never gotten the vote we wouldn't have a budget deficit, but that's another story.
August 29, 2008
PALIN: To serve as vice president beside such a man would be the privilege of a lifetime, and it's fitting that this trust has been given to me 88 years -- almost to the day -- after the women of America first gained the right to vote. (cheers and applause)
RUSH: Right on, right on, right on. They also gave us the welfare state, but that's (grumbles).
I ALWAYS get my Stuttering LimpBoy quotes directly from the transcripts on his own website. You could easily google the quotes to confirm them.Sounds too good/terrible to be true you got a source for those?And the REGRESSIVES blame the Budget Deficit and the Welfare State on women getting the right to vote!So, in other words, yes, without progressives, PoliticalChic would not have the ability to vote.
August 8, 2008
RUSH: Now we're told the night Hillary speaks is the anniversary of women getting the vote, which is what started the welfare state that now strangles us, by the way. If women had never gotten the vote we wouldn't have a budget deficit, but that's another story.
August 29, 2008
PALIN: To serve as vice president beside such a man would be the privilege of a lifetime, and it's fitting that this trust has been given to me 88 years -- almost to the day -- after the women of America first gained the right to vote. (cheers and applause)
RUSH: Right on, right on, right on. They also gave us the welfare state, but that's (grumbles).
And imperialists, at home and abroad, and responsible for Prohibition, the Palmer Raids, eugenics, loyalty oaths and a love of Mussolini and all things fascist.
But you are avoiding the point of the OP, which established the following about the Progressive agenda.
They dispute the following:
1. Men are born with inalienable rights, given by their Creator...not by any government or law.
2. That separation of powers is commendable, and so is the system of checks and balances in our Constitution.
3. The rule of law and of property rights are inherent in the American system, and are not malleable to the whims of government.
4. Neither the Declaration of Independence nor the Constitution are outdated.
Do you?
For starters, you're wrongly assuming that what were called progressives a hundred years ago, and what you select out as a certain subset of progressives from a hundred years ago, define what progressives of today are.
You are making what appears to the untrained eye to be a clever argument. Unfortunately for you, not all of us are burdened with untrained eyes.
The connection is clear not only in that the same big government totalist initiatives are apparent, but a leading politician, Ms. Clinton, proudly bids homage to the 'earlly 20th century Progressives.' Her own words.
As does the President.
Once you realized the direction of those, and these, you will be forced to formulate your own views and shun the term Progressive.
I doubt that you are aware that the term Progressive was submerged by John Dewey because to the rejection of same by Americans.
Wilson and the Progressives tried to make war socialism permanent, but the voters didnt agree. So the Progressives began to agree more and more with Bismarckian top-down socialism, and looked to Russia and Italy were men of action were creating utopias. And, John Dewey renamed Progressivism as liberalism, which had referred to political and economic liberty, along the lines of John Locke and Adam Smith: maximum individual freedom under a minimalist state. Dewey changed the meaning to the Prussian meaning: alleviation of material and educational poverty, and the removal of old ideas and faiths. Classical liberals were not called Conservatives.
Finally, Dewey arguably did more than any other reformer to repackage progressive social theory in a way that obscured just how radically its principles departed from those of the American founding. Like Ely and many of his fellow progressive academics, Dewey initially embraced the term "socialism" to describe his social theory. Only after realizing how damaging the name was to the socialist cause did he, like other progressives, begin to avoid it. In the early 1930s, accordingly, Dewey begged the Socialist party, of which he was a longtime member, to change its name. "The greatest handicap from which special measures favored by the Socialists suffer," Dewey declared, "is that they are advanced by the Socialist party as Socialism. John Dewey and the philosophical refounding of America | National Review | Find Articles at BNET
For starters, you're wrongly assuming that what were called progressives a hundred years ago, and what you select out as a certain subset of progressives from a hundred years ago, define what progressives of today are.
You are making what appears to the untrained eye to be a clever argument. Unfortunately for you, not all of us are burdened with untrained eyes.
The connection is clear not only in that the same big government totalist initiatives are apparent, but a leading politician, Ms. Clinton, proudly bids homage to the 'earlly 20th century Progressives.' Her own words.
As does the President.
Once you realized the direction of those, and these, you will be forced to formulate your own views and shun the term Progressive.
I doubt that you are aware that the term Progressive was submerged by John Dewey because to the rejection of same by Americans.
Wilson and the Progressives tried to make war socialism permanent, but the voters didnt agree. So the Progressives began to agree more and more with Bismarckian top-down socialism, and looked to Russia and Italy were men of action were creating utopias. And, John Dewey renamed Progressivism as liberalism, which had referred to political and economic liberty, along the lines of John Locke and Adam Smith: maximum individual freedom under a minimalist state. Dewey changed the meaning to the Prussian meaning: alleviation of material and educational poverty, and the removal of old ideas and faiths. Classical liberals were not called Conservatives.
Finally, Dewey arguably did more than any other reformer to repackage progressive social theory in a way that obscured just how radically its principles departed from those of the American founding. Like Ely and many of his fellow progressive academics, Dewey initially embraced the term "socialism" to describe his social theory. Only after realizing how damaging the name was to the socialist cause did he, like other progressives, begin to avoid it. In the early 1930s, accordingly, Dewey begged the Socialist party, of which he was a longtime member, to change its name. "The greatest handicap from which special measures favored by the Socialists suffer," Dewey declared, "is that they are advanced by the Socialist party as Socialism. John Dewey and the philosophical refounding of America | National Review | Find Articles at BNET
You need to learn to be concise.
Can you be both a Progressive and an American?
<snip>
☭proletarian☭;1964838 said:Oh I've been learning what Progressive means, and once you do and then listen to Obama or Hillary or Michelle,
I didn't you could get any dumber.
Have you seen the ratings for Beck?
Go Beck
☭proletarian☭;1964838 said:Oh I've been learning what Progressive means, and once you do and then listen to Obama or Hillary or Michelle,
I didn't you could get any dumber.
Millions of Americans agree with me, highest rankings on Fox, second most watched personality anywhere currently.
☭proletarian☭;1964838 said:Oh I've been learning what Progressive means, and once you do and then listen to Obama or Hillary or Michelle,
I didn't you could get any dumber.
Millions of Americans agree with me, highest rankings on Fox, second most watched personality anywhere currently.
Maybe 15mm out of 300mm. So he's got 5%; who cares?
