Can Obama Fool Us Twice?

[georgephillip]

Yes he can, and if Republicans are not smart he is going to. He has the establishment and liberal Press on his side, and the man runs a hell of a campaign. Anyone counting him out right now is a fool. In fact I would wager if the race was ran now. He would win.

it's not that anyone is "fooled" by any politician. it's that the repubs haven't given a viable alternative. and after this past week, i'm pretty sure that no repub is going to be trustworthy for a very long time... not until the party marginalizes its nutters.

You may be right, but I see no reason to trust Obama either. He has not delivered on his grand promises, He has shown very weak leadership, and is spending like a drunken Sailor. He has also quite frankly lied to us all many times now.

Not sure why you still think he is such a great guy for the job. If the choices are him or any of the Repubs talking about running now. Well that's a shitty choice, but IMO Obama is out of his depth in the job, and not really seeming to grow into it either.

You are however dead wrong about the nobody being fooled part. The American people voted for a Moderate Liberal centrist in Obama. They Thought he could handle the job. On both Points Obama fooled anyone who voted for him.

How bad would the US economy have to be in November of 2012 (unemployment, inflation, income inequality) before either of you would could consider voting AGAINST every Republican AND Democrat on your ballots?

 

[georgephillip]

this is amerika, of course he can....

Would you say it's accurate to label Obama as a Democrat on the little stuff (held first Seder in White House?) and a right-wing Republican when it comes to War and Wall Street?

obama is an idiot on the small stuff and an asshole on war and Wall St.

Would McCain have been a better choice?

How likely is it any Republican running in 2012 will be any less of an asshole?

 

[georgephillip]

If gas prices keep going the way they are, Obama is toast The "poor and the"middle class" are hurt by this the most. Gas $4.00 a gal? Obama has no chance.

It's beginning to look like high fuel prices and high unemployment numbers are becoming structural in the US economy.

Maybe the high price of gasoline will inspire the US to move beyond petroleum as a source of fuel? Anything that turns Obama into one and done is good news imho.

 

[Mr Liberty]

Oil is king. It determines the price of everything. $8.00 per gallon is probable. I think it is likely that President Obama will face opposition within his own party. He thinks the problem will be solved if everyone trades in their SUV. I haven't seen such incompetence since Jimmy Carter.
This is what happens when you trade liberty for security. The is no reason for a free market to create an economic bubble. Economy's manipulated by government create them and is the average person that pays the price.
Extreme poverty breeds the acceptance of extreme ideologies. Will we promote the ideology of Marx or that of Hitler? Some may say "that will never happen in America". To those I point out the Patriot act, the government bailouts and taking over of businesses and the current political correctness of hating the rich.
I am an extremest. I believe in individual liberty and I don't mean just political liberty: but also economic liberty. I accept responsibility for my choices. I should not be forced to pay for the foolish choices made by others. The rich have never taken anything from me. The poor take too much.
I vote libertarian. They promise freedom. They don't care about security, neither do I.

 

[georgephillip]

In the interest of charitable discourse, let's put aside Lefty anger over keeping Gitmo in operation, signing off and assassinations and torturing Bradley Manning, redefining US troops in Iraq as "support personnel" and reneging on his promise to try 9/11 suspects in legitimate courtrooms.

Let's charitably label ObamaCare as either a socialized health care deformity that has driven away the Reagan Democrat swing voters of '08 or as a right-wing sell out to corporations and wait for 2014 to start burning Obama in effigy.

Maybe we can extend our charity to Afghanistan and Libya?

"'The combination of Afghanistan and Libya could bring a bitter end to the romance between Democratic liberals and Obama,' Steve Chapman writes in Reasonmagazine.

"'Many of them were already disappointed with him for extending the Bush tax cuts, bailing out Wall Street, omitting a public option from the healthcare overhaul, offering to freeze domestic discretionary spending, and generally declining to go after Republicans hammer and tong.'"

But that still leaves the economy:

"Everyone--left, middle and right--is furious about his Herbert Hoover-like lack of concern over the economy.

"While the multimillionaire president blithely talks about a recovery as he heads off to golf with his wealthy friends, unemployment is rising and becoming structural.

"Obama will surely pay for the disconnect between reality (no jobs, shrinking paychecks, hidden inflation) and the rosy rhetoric coming out of the White House and U.S. state media."

Or will he?

Fool Us Twice? Can Obama Get Reelected? | Common Dreams

The Bush era all over again.
And Bush fooled a lot of people twice.

Bush was able to kick the can labeled "economy" down the road for all eight years. Obama won't have that luxury. If the US economy is as bad or worse in 2012 as it was in 2008, I'm predicting Obama is one and done. It's hard for me to believe anyone poses a greater threat to progressive values than Obama.

 

[georgephillip]

In the interest of charitable discourse, let's put aside Lefty anger over keeping Gitmo in operation, signing off and assassinations and torturing Bradley Manning, redefining US troops in Iraq as "support personnel" and reneging on his promise to try 9/11 suspects in legitimate courtrooms.

Let's charitably label ObamaCare as either a socialized health care deformity that has driven away the Reagan Democrat swing voters of '08 or as a right-wing sell out to corporations and wait for 2014 to start burning Obama in effigy.

Maybe we can extend our charity to Afghanistan and Libya?

"'The combination of Afghanistan and Libya could bring a bitter end to the romance between Democratic liberals and Obama,' Steve Chapman writes in Reasonmagazine.

"'Many of them were already disappointed with him for extending the Bush tax cuts, bailing out Wall Street, omitting a public option from the healthcare overhaul, offering to freeze domestic discretionary spending, and generally declining to go after Republicans hammer and tong.'"

But that still leaves the economy:

"Everyone--left, middle and right--is furious about his Herbert Hoover-like lack of concern over the economy.

"While the multimillionaire president blithely talks about a recovery as he heads off to golf with his wealthy friends, unemployment is rising and becoming structural.

"Obama will surely pay for the disconnect between reality (no jobs, shrinking paychecks, hidden inflation) and the rosy rhetoric coming out of the White House and U.S. state media."

Or will he?

Fool Us Twice? Can Obama Get Reelected? | Common Dreams

Obama Health Care is not socialized medicine, he done excactly what he said he would with Afghanistan and health care. tried to close Gitmo and GOP cried and squealed like the stuffed pigs. Obama was left with the worst economy and agiain GOPs cry because he spends money on the economy then cry about jobs.

Obama is better than anything the GOP offers. New Conservative, Moral Majority,Contract with America Tea Party different name same failed Republican/ Reganomics/ trickle down policy.

Obama and the GOP are two sides of the same corporate coin.

Goldman Sachs donated four times as much money to Obama in 2008 as they gave to McCain, and Obama has done their bidding exactly like Bush and Clinton before him.

The painful truth many here don't want to face is there will be no recovery for 90% of Americans if voters continue "choosing" between Democrat OR Republican at the polls.

 

[georgephillip]

I think the premise of this thread is flawed even though much of its content isn't.

Can Obama Fool Us Twice?

The above presumes he "fooled" us the first time.

I don't think that's accurate, really.

I think the politically unwashed (his youth vote) might have been fooled, but I seriously doubt any serious students of American politics were.

Obama was the least worst choice for enough voters, not the messianic person most right wing cranks want to imagine that lefties though he was.

I voted for O not expecting much change and with not a whole lot of hope.

Of course nobody expected the 2008 meltdown so faulting him as having betrayed campiagn promises surrounding that event is pointless since his campaign didn't address a problem that really had not yet occurred.

Are you surprised his Justice Department hasn't filed any charges of securities or control fraud against Wall Street execs? As I recall, his lead over McCain was narrowing when the Great Recession first became noticeable to most voters.

Obama might have been the least worst among major party candidates, but our economy and the world would be a much different place today if Ralph Nader had moved into the White House in 2009.

In one sense I see Obama as an even greater threat to progressive values than Bush or McCain because many liberals/progressives seem incapable of judging Obama by the content of his policies or character.

Which leaves what...?

 

[georgephillip]

You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time.


I'm not sure who said this - it's been attributed to a number of people. Regardless, there is a lot of truth in it.

Republicans AND Democrats seem pretty good at fooling all the people all of the time that a "choice" between either party has the slightest effect on Wall Street's ability to plunder working class wages and retirement benefits.

Not to mention the Pentagon's ability to avoid an audits.

 

[GunZawga]

In the interest of charitable discourse, let's put aside Lefty anger over keeping Gitmo in operation, signing off and assassinations and torturing Bradley Manning, redefining US troops in Iraq as "support personnel" and reneging on his promise to try 9/11 suspects in legitimate courtrooms.

Let's charitably label ObamaCare as either a socialized health care deformity that has driven away the Reagan Democrat swing voters of '08 or as a right-wing sell out to corporations and wait for 2014 to start burning Obama in effigy.

Maybe we can extend our charity to Afghanistan and Libya?

"'The combination of Afghanistan and Libya could bring a bitter end to the romance between Democratic liberals and Obama,' Steve Chapman writes in Reasonmagazine.

"'Many of them were already disappointed with him for extending the Bush tax cuts, bailing out Wall Street, omitting a public option from the healthcare overhaul, offering to freeze domestic discretionary spending, and generally declining to go after Republicans hammer and tong.'"

But that still leaves the economy:

"Everyone--left, middle and right--is furious about his Herbert Hoover-like lack of concern over the economy.

"While the multimillionaire president blithely talks about a recovery as he heads off to golf with his wealthy friends, unemployment is rising and becoming structural.

"Obama will surely pay for the disconnect between reality (no jobs, shrinking paychecks, hidden inflation) and the rosy rhetoric coming out of the White House and U.S. state media."

Or will he?

Fool Us Twice? Can Obama Get Reelected? | Common Dreams

I am not sure if a net worth of 1.3 mill qualifies as a MULTI millionaire. seems he is in the top 10%, but not much better.

Millionaires-in-Chief - Obama's money (5) - Money Magazine

Where do you stand in America's wealth spectrum? (Page 1 of 4)

 

[georgephillip]

Can Obama Fool Us Twice?

Everyone needs to settle-down....and, 'Baggers need to jettison their tantrums....much like Boner has jettisoned them.

Obama and Boehner Relationship Brightens

"They both believe the other operates in good faith. I think they are friendly, but not quite good friends at this point. Maybe some day."

Probably the same day they both go to work for Goldman Sachs?

Obama and Boehner relationship brightens with deal | Reuters

 

[georgephillip]

depends on the economy

Here's a CommonDreams post quoting a Financial Times claim that there are currently more people living in poverty in the US than at any time in the last 50 years.

"Foreclosure filings were nearly 4 million in 2010, up 23 percent since 2008 according to Realty Trac."

If the economy in the fall of 2012 is where it was in 2008, Obama should be the first of hundreds of elected Democrats AND Republicans in DC to collect a pink slip.

.....Pretty-much what "conservatives" were expecting, after Bill Clinton won the Presidency.

"Not only was the entire national deficit eliminated after raising taxes on the wealthy in 1993, but the economy grew so fast for the remainder of the decade that many conservative economists thought that the Fed should raise the prime interest rate in order to slow it down."

Teabaggers WORST NIGHTMARE​

How did Bubba earn his $100 million?

"The bill that ultimately repealed the Act was introduced in the Senate by Phil Gramm (Republican of Texas) and in the House of Representatives by Jim Leach (R-Iowa) in 1999. The bills were passed by a Republican majority, basically following party lines by a 54–44 vote in the Senate[9] and by a bi-partisan 343–86 vote in the House of Representatives.[10]

"After passing both the Senate and House the bill was moved to a conference committee to work out the differences between the Senate and House versions. The final bill resolving the differences was passed in the Senate 90–8 (one not voting) and in the House: 362–57 (15 not voting). The legislation was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on November 12, 1999.[11]

Glass

 

[georgephillip]

In the interest of charitable discourse, let's put aside Lefty anger over keeping Gitmo in operation, signing off and assassinations and torturing Bradley Manning, redefining US troops in Iraq as "support personnel" and reneging on his promise to try 9/11 suspects in legitimate courtrooms.

Let's charitably label ObamaCare as either a socialized health care deformity that has driven away the Reagan Democrat swing voters of '08 or as a right-wing sell out to corporations and wait for 2014 to start burning Obama in effigy.

Maybe we can extend our charity to Afghanistan and Libya?

"'The combination of Afghanistan and Libya could bring a bitter end to the romance between Democratic liberals and Obama,' Steve Chapman writes in Reasonmagazine.

"'Many of them were already disappointed with him for extending the Bush tax cuts, bailing out Wall Street, omitting a public option from the healthcare overhaul, offering to freeze domestic discretionary spending, and generally declining to go after Republicans hammer and tong.'"

But that still leaves the economy:

"Everyone--left, middle and right--is furious about his Herbert Hoover-like lack of concern over the economy.

"While the multimillionaire president blithely talks about a recovery as he heads off to golf with his wealthy friends, unemployment is rising and becoming structural.

"Obama will surely pay for the disconnect between reality (no jobs, shrinking paychecks, hidden inflation) and the rosy rhetoric coming out of the White House and U.S. state media."

Or will he?

Fool Us Twice? Can Obama Get Reelected? | Common Dreams

I am not sure if a net worth of 1.3 mill qualifies as a MULTI millionaire. seems he is in the top 10%, but not much better.

Millionaires-in-Chief - Obama's money (5) - Money Magazine

Where do you stand in America's wealth spectrum? (Page 1 of 4)

Your link appears to be from 2006.

I think the last estimate I saw of his net worth was in the $3million to $4million range; however, whether he serves one term or two with his speaking skills he will hit $100 million faster than Clinton once he retires from public life.

That's assuming that he and Clinton and Bush aren't retired to a federal prison first, of course.

Here are more recent calculations:

"On April 15, 2010, the White House released the Obamas 2009
tax returns. Based on that release, we have updated our
running tally of Barack Obama's net worth, at $10,111, 249."

Obama's Net Worth--2010 Updates |Latest Figures

 

[georgephillip]

Can Obama Fool Us Twice?

Everyone needs to settle-down....and, 'Baggers need to jettison their tantrums....much like Boner has jettisoned them.

Obama and Boehner Relationship Brightens

So everything is peachy now. Does that include rising inflation, commodoties, pm's. Yep, everythings grand ain't it.

Just this afternoon I heard on Pacifica Radio we have just lived through three successive months where food prices have risen by 2% to 3% in each month.

24% to 36% annually.

We are sheltered from these increases in ways most of the world isn't. The cost of wheat in a $2 loaf of bread that we buy is about 10 cents.

If the cost of wheat doubles that means we pay another dime per loaf to compensate; however, that isn't true for millions who buy wheat as a grain and process it themselves.

Food riots and water riots are coming to much of this planet.

Maybe that will open American eyes to the class war?

 

[georgephillip]

Oil is king. It determines the price of everything. $8.00 per gallon is probable. I think it is likely that President Obama will face opposition within his own party. He thinks the problem will be solved if everyone trades in their SUV. I haven't seen such incompetence since Jimmy Carter.
This is what happens when you trade liberty for security. The is no reason for a free market to create an economic bubble. Economy's manipulated by government create them and is the average person that pays the price.
Extreme poverty breeds the acceptance of extreme ideologies. Will we promote the ideology of Marx or that of Hitler? Some may say "that will never happen in America". To those I point out the Patriot act, the government bailouts and taking over of businesses and the current political correctness of hating the rich.
I am an extremest. I believe in individual liberty and I don't mean just political liberty: but also economic liberty. I accept responsibility for my choices. I should not be forced to pay for the foolish choices made by others. The rich have never taken anything from me. The poor take too much.
I vote libertarian. They promise freedom. They don't care about security, neither do I.

Do you see any institution in our society better at the centralization and concentration of power than the corporation?

Consider the possibility that the biggest threat to your liberty comes from an American Axis of Evil composed of big business, big government, and the richest 5% of your countrymen.

"The economic crisis activated, intensely and very publicly, the hegemonic alliance among big business, the richest 5 percent of citizens, and the state. Business and the rich insisted on (and the federal government complied with) corporate bailouts costing huge sums of public money.

"The state borrowed that money rather than taxing big business and the richest 5 percent of citizens.

"Indeed, it borrowed a good deal of the money from big business and the rich who had funds to lend because 1) those funds had not been taxed, and 2) the depressed global economy offered less attractive alternatives for those funds.

"This three-way hegemonic alliance is now proceeding to utilize the suddenly and vastly increased state debt to shift the cost of the crisis onto the mass of people."

Prospects for the U.S. Left: Not Bad At All | Professor Richard D. Wolff

 

[grunt11b]

Twice? He never had me fooled the first time. As far as fooling the people who voted for him the first time, I am sure if they where ignorant enough to vote for him once, they can be fooled again.

 

[R.D.]

The above presumes he "fooled" us the first time.

I don't think that's accurate, really.

I think the politically unwashed (his youth vote) might have been fooled, but I seriously doubt any serious students of American politics were.

Obama was the least worst choice for enough voters, not the messianic person most right wing cranks want to imagine that lefties though he was.
I voted for O not expecting much change and with not a whole lot of hope.

Of course nobody expected the 2008 meltdown so faulting him as having betrayed campiagn promises surrounding that event is pointless since his campaign didn't address a problem that really had not yet occurred.

Trying to separate yourself from the politically unwashed youth at this stage and pretending to be a student of politics while making excuses for the "one" is just adorable

 

[washamericom]

The above presumes he "fooled" us the first time.

I don't think that's accurate, really.

I think the politically unwashed (his youth vote) might have been fooled, but I seriously doubt any serious students of American politics were.

Obama was the least worst choice for enough voters, not the messianic person most right wing cranks want to imagine that lefties though he was.
I voted for O not expecting much change and with not a whole lot of hope.

Of course nobody expected the 2008 meltdown so faulting him as having betrayed campiagn promises surrounding that event is pointless since his campaign didn't address a problem that really had not yet occurred.

Trying to separate yourself from the politically unwashed youth at this stage and pretending to be a student of politics while making excuses for the "one" is just adorable

i'd have to say his post is credible, as is the op. he voted for for the guy, ostensibly under false pretense. i think there are a lot of people that feel that way. call it buyer's remorse, i call it dishonesty.

 

[grunt11b]

I call them dumbasses, because that is what they where for voting him in. Look at the damage he has done in two years, inexcusable, and it falls in the hands of those who voted him in, noone else is responsible but them.

 

[Claudette]

I considered Barry Boy a charming shyster his first go round. I never bought his hopey changey bullshit and didn't much care for his "share the wealth" crap either.

I didn't like McCain any better but considered him the lesser of two evils.

OL'BO can definetly be re-elected in 2012 if the economy and the jobs situation are vastly improved. Of course the deficit and Govt spending will be big issues as well.

A lot will depend on who the Reps field against him and what their message is and if anyone is believing it.

 

[Ernie S.]

Would you say it's accurate to label Obama as a Democrat on the little stuff (held first Seder in White House?) and a right-wing Republican when it comes to War and Wall Street?

obama is an idiot on the small stuff and an asshole on war and Wall St.

Would McCain have been a better choice?

How likely is it any Republican running in 2012 will be any less of an asshole?

Charlie Sheen would have been a better choice than what we got.
And as far as voting all incumbents out? That's a stupid idea. Just because you don't like the direction the country is headed is a damned poor reason to turn out those that would solve problems if more like minded people were elected.