Ukraine War - the problem of US Propaganda

[B. Kidd]

Here be the rub. Putin lied about his intentions until after his troops invaded.

That coupled with the propensity since then to lie constantly and consistently makes his invasion unjustified. And unjustifiable.

So death to all Russian soldiers. Death to Russia.

You're wrong.
Fighting in the Donbas has been occurring since 2014.
You are just ignorant of it and therefore, ignorant overall.

 

[Vastator]

In order to understand some terminology you would have to have read this: Imperial Ambitions in an Age of Decline

I argue that the US has ventured into two distinct micromilitaristic ventures that ended in complete failures. In both Iraq and Afghanistan, the two countries are now more subservient to the Russia-Iran-China axis than before when the US entered them. Under the old Taliban Afghanistan was vehemently anti-Russian, now it sells US weapons to Russia and is a leading trade partner with Russia, Iran and China. Iraq, one third of the country is owned by Russia outright, and another half is owned by Iran. China plays all sides.

There are two types of militaristic adventures that Empires use:

• Micro-militaristic - think:
  • US invading Grenada
  • US invading Iraq
  • US invading Afghanistan
  • USSR invading Afghanistan
• Macro-militaristic - think:
  • US/USSR power struggle in Korea
  • Vietnam
  • USSR in Hungary
  • Allies vs. Axis powers

The nature of these are distinctly different. In the micro-militaristic adventure the Empire's goal is an "easy win" and maybe to make money. In an Empire in decline this venture usually results in losing money and losing the war. US has suffered this at least twice on a grand scale.

USSR lost Afghanistan in an equally grand way.

The problem with US propaganda is this:

The US wants YOU to think Russia's war in Ukraine is a Micro-militaristic adventure when actually it's not.

The reason for this is simple, US elites and political class want to believe this is a micro-militaristic adventure where Russia's goal is prestige and capital driven. Thus they have moved the entire western population to believe that Russia is embarrassed and failing all its objectives which tends to hasten the defeat of Empires. How can Russia have failed so miserably on such a weak country? The US wants us to think that Ukraine is weaker than Iraq or Afghanistan. That Kiev would fall in hours or maybe a day at most.

Reality: Russia's war in Ukraine is MACRO-MILITARISM.

They are not there for adventurism and money. NATO crossed a red line that Russia cannot accept and they have executed a grand strategy that is not limited to Ukraine.

1. Ukraine is not as weak as Iraq or Afghanistan.
   1. Ukraine has been built-up militarily with modern equipment and advisors and training for decades.
   2. Ukraine is the second most powerful country in the former USSR, behind Russia.
   3. Ukraine's military is something like 30% the size of Russia's somewhat formidable.
2. Ukraine isn't Russia's Grand Strategy.
   1. Russia's Grand Strategy is to collapse the US Dollar
   2. I'm of the opinion that they have done significant damage to the US Dollar.
   3. Russia's commodity position is amazing - buffering it from Western Sanction in a way that USSR never could have achieved
      1. This is because after 30 years, Russia was integrated into the global economy.
      2. In 1991, Russia/USSR had been isolated from the global economy since 1917.
      3. Russian Empire pre-1917 was hardly apart of the global economy even then.
   4. Russia's position is therefore much stronger now than it ever was when confronted in the Cold War.
      1. Unraveling this problem will require a lot more work and pain.
3. Russia's Grand Strategy includes:
   1. Collapsing the US Dollar as a reserve currency.
   2. Ending Western/IMF control of global capital.
   3. Ending SWIFT.
   4. Securing Ukraine as a buffer between Russia and "real NATO".
      1. Baltics aren't real NATO.
4. Russia's macro-military engagement is asymmetrical in the right ways.
   1. When US invaded Iraq and Afghanistan it didn't try to meet par, it tried to show off and went too big too flashy and too costly.
   2. US is more mindful of cost when it's more money-driven micro-militarism like Libya. Libya gave Libyan oil to the US and France, and is a blip on the budget.
5. Russia therefore is invading Ukraine like US attacked Libya.
   1. It may seem grand in scale but that's only because Ukraine is a larger military power than Germany and France combined.
   2. Russia's invasion is very cheap, using the oldest equipment and ammunition first for most of the objectives, and sending in last-minute conscripts to do most of the heavy lifting.
      1. That may seem to be causing a failure of objectives but their objectives are probably not to conquer territory but to ruin Ukraine financially and any chance of its independence by occupying more territory in the east and its largest power plants.

So all this being said....

US Propaganda is highly misleading.

Russia is fighting a very different war than the US is used to lately. And because of it we think that "retreat" means collapse and that time means "failure".

It's very likely that Russia is ok with keeping the war perpetual. It prevents Ukraine from being anything more than a ruined dump.

While Russia's real targets are the international monetary order.

I don't give half a shit who loses this territory in Ukraine. I just don't want my son dying for the effort. You want our help? Then offer us tangible goods worth fighting for. Money, land, and, pussy.


Write out the contract....

 

[SavannahMann]

You're wrong.
Fighting in the Donbas has been occurring since 2014.
You are just ignorant of it and therefore, ignorant overall.

Interesting. You don’t ask me if I know. You just declare I don’t.

Obviously we disagree on just who is ignorant here.

 

[Stormy Daniels]

In order to understand some terminology you would have to have read this: Imperial Ambitions in an Age of Decline

I argue that the US has ventured into two distinct micromilitaristic ventures that ended in complete failures. In both Iraq and Afghanistan, the two countries are now more subservient to the Russia-Iran-China axis than before when the US entered them. Under the old Taliban Afghanistan was vehemently anti-Russian, now it sells US weapons to Russia and is a leading trade partner with Russia, Iran and China. Iraq, one third of the country is owned by Russia outright, and another half is owned by Iran. China plays all sides.

There are two types of militaristic adventures that Empires use:

• Micro-militaristic - think:
  • US invading Grenada
  • US invading Iraq
  • US invading Afghanistan
  • USSR invading Afghanistan
• Macro-militaristic - think:
  • US/USSR power struggle in Korea
  • Vietnam
  • USSR in Hungary
  • Allies vs. Axis powers

The nature of these are distinctly different. In the micro-militaristic adventure the Empire's goal is an "easy win" and maybe to make money. In an Empire in decline this venture usually results in losing money and losing the war. US has suffered this at least twice on a grand scale.

USSR lost Afghanistan in an equally grand way.

The problem with US propaganda is this:

The US wants YOU to think Russia's war in Ukraine is a Micro-militaristic adventure when actually it's not.

The reason for this is simple, US elites and political class want to believe this is a micro-militaristic adventure where Russia's goal is prestige and capital driven. Thus they have moved the entire western population to believe that Russia is embarrassed and failing all its objectives which tends to hasten the defeat of Empires. How can Russia have failed so miserably on such a weak country? The US wants us to think that Ukraine is weaker than Iraq or Afghanistan. That Kiev would fall in hours or maybe a day at most.

Reality: Russia's war in Ukraine is MACRO-MILITARISM.

They are not there for adventurism and money. NATO crossed a red line that Russia cannot accept and they have executed a grand strategy that is not limited to Ukraine.

1. Ukraine is not as weak as Iraq or Afghanistan.
   1. Ukraine has been built-up militarily with modern equipment and advisors and training for decades.
   2. Ukraine is the second most powerful country in the former USSR, behind Russia.
   3. Ukraine's military is something like 30% the size of Russia's somewhat formidable.
2. Ukraine isn't Russia's Grand Strategy.
   1. Russia's Grand Strategy is to collapse the US Dollar
   2. I'm of the opinion that they have done significant damage to the US Dollar.
   3. Russia's commodity position is amazing - buffering it from Western Sanction in a way that USSR never could have achieved
      1. This is because after 30 years, Russia was integrated into the global economy.
      2. In 1991, Russia/USSR had been isolated from the global economy since 1917.
      3. Russian Empire pre-1917 was hardly apart of the global economy even then.
   4. Russia's position is therefore much stronger now than it ever was when confronted in the Cold War.
      1. Unraveling this problem will require a lot more work and pain.
3. Russia's Grand Strategy includes:
   1. Collapsing the US Dollar as a reserve currency.
   2. Ending Western/IMF control of global capital.
   3. Ending SWIFT.
   4. Securing Ukraine as a buffer between Russia and "real NATO".
      1. Baltics aren't real NATO.
4. Russia's macro-military engagement is asymmetrical in the right ways.
   1. When US invaded Iraq and Afghanistan it didn't try to meet par, it tried to show off and went too big too flashy and too costly.
   2. US is more mindful of cost when it's more money-driven micro-militarism like Libya. Libya gave Libyan oil to the US and France, and is a blip on the budget.
5. Russia therefore is invading Ukraine like US attacked Libya.
   1. It may seem grand in scale but that's only because Ukraine is a larger military power than Germany and France combined.
   2. Russia's invasion is very cheap, using the oldest equipment and ammunition first for most of the objectives, and sending in last-minute conscripts to do most of the heavy lifting.
      1. That may seem to be causing a failure of objectives but their objectives are probably not to conquer territory but to ruin Ukraine financially and any chance of its independence by occupying more territory in the east and its largest power plants.

So all this being said....

US Propaganda is highly misleading.

Russia is fighting a very different war than the US is used to lately. And because of it we think that "retreat" means collapse and that time means "failure".

It's very likely that Russia is ok with keeping the war perpetual. It prevents Ukraine from being anything more than a ruined dump.

While Russia's real targets are the international monetary order.

All of this so you can try to frame Russia's changing course in Ukraine as if it's just been misunderstood. Fuck you, you Russian sock, and the horse Vlad rode in on.

 

[DarthTrader]

Here be the rub. Putin lied about his intentions until after his troops invaded.

That coupled with the propensity since then to lie constantly and consistently makes his invasion unjustified. And unjustifiable.

So death to all Russian soldiers. Death to Russia.

Ukrainians say the Russians came in shooting. So Putin obviously didn't lie to them.

 

[DarthTrader]

All of this so you can try to frame Russia's changing course in Ukraine as if it's just been misunderstood. Fuck you, you Russian sock, and the horse Vlad rode in on.

Lolololol. Only stupid losers don't change course. How would we ever have won WW2 if we had losers like you in charge.

 

[DarthTrader]

I heard that Ivan wasn´t that terrible.
However, the Russian history shows clearly they have always struggled to be an European country. For example in the 16. Century "German" districts began to show up in Moscow, with Germans being a term for Europeans.

It's mostly the orthodox Christianity.

Greeks were not Europeans either until it was convenient in the 1800s to romanticize an attack on the Ottomans.

 

[DarthTrader]

They made gains almost solely with missile and artillery fire turning cities like Mariupol into shells of their former selves. Yet a 40 mile convoy of troops North of Kiev was turned into scrap iron?
Why was this?
Poor planning on Russia's part failed to create an emergency on the Ukrainians defense of Kiev's part!
Pootie's ego and stoopid Russian generals just got in the way!

40 mile column left Kiev intact lolololol.

You people are fycking stupid.

 

[Stormy Daniels]

Greeks were not Europeans either until it was convenient in the 1800s to romanticize an attack on the Ottomans.

That would be news to everyone since Homer.

 

[DarthTrader]

That would be news to everyone since Homer.

Oh Jesus Christ. Are you forgetting something called the fucking Crusades where the "Europeans" decided to destroy Constantinople and install a puppet western government? Or all of time since 1450s when the west all but forgot about the east?

"Europe" is an arbitrary concept cobbled together to divide europeans from the Slavics when the British launched "the Great Game" in the 1830s.

I don't have time to educate you

Why does Europe stop at Turkey when most of Turkey is Greek origin.

 

[Stormy Daniels]

"Europe" is an arbitrary concept cobbled together to divide europeans from the Slavics when the British launched "the Great Game" in the 1830s.

Uh, the very name Europe is Greek in origin, deriving from Greek mythology. The first world map ever created was by the ancient Greek cartographer Anaximander, and here it is:

As you can see, this represents a helene-centric view of the world, which incidentally leads to a helene-centric view of Europe. The Greeks have long been hailed as the founders of western civilization. Anyone who has better than a 4th grader education knows this.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Well yes they do because I'm American and the US has lost every major war since Korea if you can call it "not a loss". And WW2 was won by Russia on the offensive. 650+ German divisions destroyed.

Do you know how many German divisions the US engaged and destroyed?

Engaged: 149
Destroyed: 1.

So Russia did 650x more work than the US lol.

Who provided them with the equipment to do that?

We did!

Also, I think your so-called facts are a bit in dispute. How many German divisions did the Russians destroy in North Africa? How many German divisions did Russia destroy in France? How many German divisions did Russia destroy in Italy? How many Japanese divisions did the Russians destroy in Manchuria? How many Japanese did the Russians destroy in the Pacific?

One dimensional thinking gets you beaten in 3-D chess.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Oh Jesus Christ. Are you forgetting something called the fucking Crusades where the "Europeans" decided to destroy Constantinople and install a puppet western government? Or all of time since 1450s when the west all but forgot about the east?

"Europe" is an arbitrary concept cobbled together to divide europeans from the Slavics when the British launched "the Great Game" in the 1830s.

I don't have time to educate you

Why does Europe stop at Turkey when most of Turkey is Greek origin.

That would be news to all the Muslims in Turkey!

 

[DarthTrader]

Uh, the very name Europe is Greek in origin, deriving from Greek mythology. The first world map ever created was by the ancient Greek cartographer Anaximander, and here it is:

View attachment 627604

As you can see, this represents a helene-centric view of the world, which incidentally leads to a helene-centric view of Europe. The Greeks have long been hailed as the founders of western civilization. Anyone who has better than a 4th grader education knows this.

God damn its almost like you're a stubborn moron lol. Learn a thing or two about the Renaissance.

Before the Renaissance the "Europeans" called themselves "Christendom" and never used the word Europe.

They revived it from a dead Greek use that didn't, ironically, include the Greeks. But was Teutonic centered by first the Lombardy Germans in Italy then the Holy Roman Empire itself. It was catalyzed in the 30 years war when Christendom (non orthodox) ruptured into about 300 different cults and no longer could identify as one united Church.

Will you FUCK OFF? Hahaha

 

[DarthTrader]

That would be news to all the Muslims in Turkey!

So religion is now race?

90% of Turks are Greek. Lololol.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

40 mile column left Kiev intact lolololol.

You people are fycking stupid.

Why do you lie? Photographs don't lie! Maybe you shouldn't either.

 

[Stormy Daniels]

God damn its almost like you're a stubborn moron lol. Learn a thing or two about the Renaissance.

Before the Renaissance the "Europeans" called themselves "Christendom" and never used the word Europe.

They revived it from a dead Greek use that didn't, ironically, include the Greeks. But was Teutonic centered by first the Lombardy Germans in Italy then the Holy Roman Empire itself. It was catalyzed in the 30 years war when Christendom (non orthodox) ruptured into about 300 different cults and no longer could identify as one united Church.

Will you FUCK OFF? Hahaha

This is exactly the view I would expect from Russian public schools.

 

[DarthTrader]

Who provided them with the equipment to do that?

We did!

Also, I think your so-called facts are a bit in dispute. How many German divisions did the Russians destroy in North Africa? How many German divisions did Russia destroy in France? How many German divisions did Russia destroy in Italy? How many Japanese divisions did the Russians destroy in Manchuria? How many Japanese did the Russians destroy in the Pacific?

One dimensional thinking gets you beaten in 3-D chess.

Omg. You seriously don't know? The US didn't destroy the divisions in North Africa or France lololol.

0 German divisions lost combat effectiveness in Italy.

You are really outclassed when you come up against me I'm US Army War college trained lol.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

So religion is now race?

90% of Turks are Greek. Lololol.

You ever been to Greece or Turkey? I have multiple times. They look different, act different, have different architecture in addition to different religions. You do realize they hate each other?

BTW, neither Greek nor Turkish is a race. Dumbass with a European history degree I'll bet and didn't learn anything!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Omg. You seriously don't know? The US didn't destroy the divisions in North Africa or France lololol.

0 German divisions lost combat effectiveness in Italy.

You are really outclassed when you come up against me I'm US Army War college trained lol.

They didn't lose combat effectiveness but were massacred and run out of Italy?

Being War College trained in this day and age certifies you as a class A moron.