Can a Catholic not like his communist Pope?

[sealybobo]

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Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
St. James 4:4

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Because I'm more than a little frustrated with my Pope. Already infamous for his many comments demonizing capitalism, he now proceeds to attack free speech and throw his weight behind the global warming cult.

WTF, your holiness?

Capitalism is the greatest engine to human freedom and prosperity in the history of mankind, global warming is nothing more than a wealth redistribution scheme with aims on global government, and when Islam kills people for insulting their pedophile prophet, the proper response is not to tell Christians to work harder not to offend Muslims.

Now the Bible passage I posted is a very appropriate rebuke of Pope Francis. Christians are not called to be friends with the world, to promote worldly values, and to mimic the demonic bigotry of worldly political correctness. Trying to win popularity among reprobate humanity by necessity requires abandoning Christ and our obligation to be the Light of Christ to the nations. Jesus calls us to be light in darkness, not to join the darkness. Jesus warned us that if our salt loses its saltiness, it becomes worthless, something to be thrown out as refuse. But most of all, Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world. We do not promote earthly kingdoms or international agendas, we are ambassadors of the kingdom of God.

But to put things in perspective, Catholics pray for the Pope, that he may benefit from a special grace, a pouring of the Holy Spirit to guide him. Historically, some Popes have demonstrated through their actions a deep, pious faith that indicates they operate through the Holy Spirit, but others have been corrupt, or sometimes outright evil. There's no need to post a list of bad Popes throughout the history of the Church. I consider myself blessed that I've been a contemporary to one Pope who was truly God's servant, the late Pope John Paul II, and even if he's the last righteous Pope I see in my lifetime, I would not consider myself robbed. Still it's disappointing to know that we have a corrupt Pope in office. I had such high hopes for him.

This is a perfect example of a right winger who's so brainwashed that even if their own fucking Pope comes out and tells them they are wrong, they'll still argue.

Your Catholic religion indeed has had some very evil and corrupt popes in the past. This is not one of them.

Your entire post only re confirms for me just how rotten religious people are.

Why does every fool that hath said in his heart there is no God end up being a Leftist, not only on religious matters, but in promoting failed economic systems like communism. It's like you people got a cult all your own in which religiously held beliefs hold sway against the facts. Stop using your supersitions to oppress and impoverish people, please, and allow people to live their own lives unfettered by your religious laws.

How did Capitalism do in Greece?

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

__________________________________________________________
​

Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
St. James 4:4

___________________________________________________________​

Because I'm more than a little frustrated with my Pope. Already infamous for his many comments demonizing capitalism, he now proceeds to attack free speech and throw his weight behind the global warming cult.

WTF, your holiness?

Capitalism is the greatest engine to human freedom and prosperity in the history of mankind, global warming is nothing more than a wealth redistribution scheme with aims on global government, and when Islam kills people for insulting their pedophile prophet, the proper response is not to tell Christians to work harder not to offend Muslims.

Now the Bible passage I posted is a very appropriate rebuke of Pope Francis. Christians are not called to be friends with the world, to promote worldly values, and to mimic the demonic bigotry of worldly political correctness. Trying to win popularity among reprobate humanity by necessity requires abandoning Christ and our obligation to be the Light of Christ to the nations. Jesus calls us to be light in darkness, not to join the darkness. Jesus warned us that if our salt loses its saltiness, it becomes worthless, something to be thrown out as refuse. But most of all, Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world. We do not promote earthly kingdoms or international agendas, we are ambassadors of the kingdom of God.

But to put things in perspective, Catholics pray for the Pope, that he may benefit from a special grace, a pouring of the Holy Spirit to guide him. Historically, some Popes have demonstrated through their actions a deep, pious faith that indicates they operate through the Holy Spirit, but others have been corrupt, or sometimes outright evil. There's no need to post a list of bad Popes throughout the history of the Church. I consider myself blessed that I've been a contemporary to one Pope who was truly God's servant, the late Pope John Paul II, and even if he's the last righteous Pope I see in my lifetime, I would not consider myself robbed. Still it's disappointing to know that we have a corrupt Pope in office. I had such high hopes for him.

This is a perfect example of a right winger who's so brainwashed that even if their own fucking Pope comes out and tells them they are wrong, they'll still argue.

Your Catholic religion indeed has had some very evil and corrupt popes in the past. This is not one of them.

Your entire post only re confirms for me just how rotten religious people are.

Why does every fool that hath said in his heart there is no God end up being a Leftist, not only on religious matters, but in promoting failed economic systems like communism. It's like you people got a cult all your own in which religiously held beliefs hold sway against the facts. Stop using your supersitions to oppress and impoverish people, please, and allow people to live their own lives unfettered by your religious laws.

Because we aren't so brainwashed that we worship the rich and capitalism.

Why does the Pope agree with us?

We've been telling you guys for years that Jesus was a liberal. Feed the poor? Heal the sick? Not if he doesn't have insurance.

Your economic system has failed too. Often in fact. It only succeeds because it is heavily regulated by We the People. At least it was until our government was taken over by the rich. That started under Reagan. So don't be so cocky and sure your ISM is going to be around for another 100 years. Blink of an eye in human history. But you guys are sooo sure of yourselves. Much like the Romans were.

You know what? It was a lot easier 10 or 20 years ago to worship capitalism and demonize socialism and communism. Not so easy today when young people see your capitalistic society is rigged and corrupted.

Ever run into right wing conservative atheists? They do exist. Ayn Rand being the one we all know. But also realize that no conservatives will admit they don't believe in god because belief in JESUS is required. So perhaps you don't know any conservative atheists because they are too afraid to admit it to you.

In fact the GOP used you religious fools to win elections and invade Iraq.

The Pope doesn't agree with you. He fought your kind in Argentina, being attacked viciously by the communist Jesuits because of his opposition to command economy communism, a popular movement in Argentina as in Venezuela.

That doesn't mean that the holy father is not without delusions though. He seems to believe in mythical beasts such as "unfettered capitalism" which is part of your Leftist, materialist, religious belief system you want to see imposed on everyone else, so compelling your superstition, so fervent your zeal.

 

[Inevitable]

Religion is communist to an extent.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Voluntary pooling of resources does not communism make.

 

[orogenicman]

Your Catholic religion indeed has had some very evil and corrupt popes in the past. This is not one of them.

Your entire post only re confirms for me just how rotten religious people are.

Your posts reveal a severely jaundiced eye toward all people of religious faith, as well as a total lack of scholarship in the very subject you so readily comment upon. As one who critiques religion without ever having studied it, seemingly, you're like a guy commenting on calculus who's never taken a math class. For such people, any concept of god cannot drill any deeper than a concept of the Tooth Fairy. That's why all internet discussions about religion are identical. They typically occur between a simplistic fundamentalist and a simplistic anti-religious illiterate on the subject.

I've seen nothing in your posts to belie a total fealty and synchronized lock step with the petty Hitchens-esque agenda-driven mimicry of talking points copied and pasted from the storehouse of atheistic antagonism. While we agree that Pope Francis is doing an admirable job, it seems the only reason he meets your approval is for the controversy he's stirred up, most of which is a result of his statements being exaggerated or taken out of context by headline writers who like to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

Despite the fact that wars are fought over resources, strategic territory and political power, you're one of those atheist clones who blame all historical wars squarely on religion. The thousands of historical laws which could get people executed or enslaved for poaching a rabbit, stealing a loaf of bread, adultery, treason, failure to pay taxes, etc., were probably 99.5% issued by the temporal powers of kings, dukes and barons and the like (and not the Church). Yes, after the fall of the Roman Empire, the Church served as a sort of temporal power meting out laws of crime and punishment outside of the Vatican, but that period was far and away the exception of the rule. If a clergy member disagreed with Henry VIII, his head would be cut off. But, if you listen to the chirpings of unrefined atheistic historians, including those creative writers who rewrote for the script of Cosmos, it was invariably the Church which put people to the rack.

Despite the fact that the Church commissioned much of the work of early scientists, and that Classical knowledge was preserved in the abbey system, and that the Church invented the modern university, and that many of today's leading educational and medical research institutions are private institutions belonging to a church, and despite the fact that every branch of science has one or more religious freaks among its pioneers, within the camp of antagonistic atheists no such fact of history is allowed to enter.

Churches are made up of people. People are strange. Go down to the DMV and look around. Those are the people who are striving to exemplify the world's religions, or not. They are no more qualified to do so that the average person in qualified to understand quantum mechanics or to play in the NBA. Gore Vidal said that art is not a democracy. You're either born an artist or you are not. Similarly, you are either born with a capacity to grasp sacred esoteric knowledge, or you aren't and you can strive follow the example of a religious figure like Jesus, or you can be an atheist, or finally you can be a petty atheist on fire with an anti-religion agenda.

"In all history there is no war which was not hatched by the governments, the governments alone, independent of the interests of the people, to whom war is always pernicious even when successful."
-Leo Tolstoy

Before I continue to read you drivel, I want to say how ignorant and arrogant you theists are to assume we haven't studied religion enough to comment on it. We have studied it for sure and we have deemed it a lie.

There isn't anything you can show me that will convince me that God/Jesus fed 5000 people with 5 loaves of bread and 3 fish. That is the initial test for Christians. If you are gullible enough to swallow that then you can be a member.

Oh, and Zeus was the son of god long before Jesus. And the ancient Greek gods knocked up mortal women long before Mary.

I know a New Zealander who is an atheist who can recite the Bible nearly word for word. The fact is that most atheists have studied religion quite extensively. Many are, in fact, former believers. And it is through this study that so many have come to the conclusion that religion is bs. and largely counterproductive to human society.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

This is my thread and my responsibility to keep on topic. As such, I will be reporting every atheist pushing an agenda that has nothing to do with the thread topic. If you want to make the case that God doesn't exist, make your own damn thread. Do it here and I'll get the mods involved.

Don't doubt me.

 

[sealybobo]

Your Catholic religion indeed has had some very evil and corrupt popes in the past. This is not one of them.

Your entire post only re confirms for me just how rotten religious people are.

Your posts reveal a severely jaundiced eye toward all people of religious faith, as well as a total lack of scholarship in the very subject you so readily comment upon. As one who critiques religion without ever having studied it, seemingly, you're like a guy commenting on calculus who's never taken a math class. For such people, any concept of god cannot drill any deeper than a concept of the Tooth Fairy. That's why all internet discussions about religion are identical. They typically occur between a simplistic fundamentalist and a simplistic anti-religious illiterate on the subject.

I've seen nothing in your posts to belie a total fealty and synchronized lock step with the petty Hitchens-esque agenda-driven mimicry of talking points copied and pasted from the storehouse of atheistic antagonism. While we agree that Pope Francis is doing an admirable job, it seems the only reason he meets your approval is for the controversy he's stirred up, most of which is a result of his statements being exaggerated or taken out of context by headline writers who like to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

Despite the fact that wars are fought over resources, strategic territory and political power, you're one of those atheist clones who blame all historical wars squarely on religion. The thousands of historical laws which could get people executed or enslaved for poaching a rabbit, stealing a loaf of bread, adultery, treason, failure to pay taxes, etc., were probably 99.5% issued by the temporal powers of kings, dukes and barons and the like (and not the Church). Yes, after the fall of the Roman Empire, the Church served as a sort of temporal power meting out laws of crime and punishment outside of the Vatican, but that period was far and away the exception of the rule. If a clergy member disagreed with Henry VIII, his head would be cut off. But, if you listen to the chirpings of unrefined atheistic historians, including those creative writers who rewrote for the script of Cosmos, it was invariably the Church which put people to the rack.

Despite the fact that the Church commissioned much of the work of early scientists, and that Classical knowledge was preserved in the abbey system, and that the Church invented the modern university, and that many of today's leading educational and medical research institutions are private institutions belonging to a church, and despite the fact that every branch of science has one or more religious freaks among its pioneers, within the camp of antagonistic atheists no such fact of history is allowed to enter.

Churches are made up of people. People are strange. Go down to the DMV and look around. Those are the people who are striving to exemplify the world's religions, or not. They are no more qualified to do so that the average person in qualified to understand quantum mechanics or to play in the NBA. Gore Vidal said that art is not a democracy. You're either born an artist or you are not. Similarly, you are either born with a capacity to grasp sacred esoteric knowledge, or you aren't and you can strive follow the example of a religious figure like Jesus, or you can be an atheist, or finally you can be a petty atheist on fire with an anti-religion agenda.

"In all history there is no war which was not hatched by the governments, the governments alone, independent of the interests of the people, to whom war is always pernicious even when successful."
-Leo Tolstoy

Before I continue to read you drivel, I want to say how ignorant and arrogant you theists are to assume we haven't studied religion enough to comment on it. We have studied it for sure and we have deemed it a lie.

There isn't anything you can show me that will convince me that God/Jesus fed 5000 people with 5 loaves of bread and 3 fish. That is the initial test for Christians. If you are gullible enough to swallow that then you can be a member.

Oh, and Zeus was the son of god long before Jesus. And the ancient Greek gods knocked up mortal women long before Mary.

I know a New Zealander who is an atheist who can recite the Bible nearly word for word. The fact is that most atheists have studied religion quite extensively. Many are, in fact, former believers. And it is through this study that so many have come to the conclusion that religion is bs. and largely counterproductive to human society.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I use to be religious. I use to believe in god. Its why I know religious people are wrong. Unlike them I'm capable of thinking without the fear of going to hell for it. And when they claim I must be evil for rejecting their claims I know that's not true too. They don't realize they're the only ones getting emotional in this discussion. Sorry if believing 5000 people were fed with 5 loaves of bread and 3 fish is impossible. Facts are facts. Religious ppl believe in magic.

 

[sealybobo]

This is my thread and my responsibility to keep on topic. As such, I will be reporting every atheist pushing an agenda that has nothing to do with the thread topic. If you want to make the case that God doesn't exist, make your own damn thread. Do it here and I'll get the mods involved.

Don't doubt me.

Sorry. But you social conservatives prove just how brainwashed you are when even your Pope tells you your wrong and then you even throw him under the bus. Who do you worship more? Capitalism or Christianity? Even more proof for me that there is no way your god is real.

 

[orogenicman]

This is my thread and my responsibility to keep on topic. As such, I will be reporting every atheist pushing an agenda that has nothing to do with the thread topic. If you want to make the case that God doesn't exist, make your own damn thread. Do it here and I'll get the mods involved.

Don't doubt me.

Okay, on-topic then. As a former catholic, I think it is stupid to call the current resident of the vatican a communist. He isn't following marxist doctrine. If he was, he wouldn't be the Pope. But to answer your question, the Pope isn't there for you to like. He is there to lead. If you don't like his leadership, join another church.

 

[CultureCitizen]

Now the Bible passage I posted is a very appropriate rebuke of Pope Francis. Christians are not called to be friends with the world, to promote worldly values, and to mimic the demonic bigotry of worldly political correctness. Trying to win popularity among reprobate humanity by necessity requires abandoning Christ and our obligation to be the Light of Christ to the nations.

No , it was Christs command.
John 13:34 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another."

 

[ninja007]

how mentally unstable the atheists are! Yeah- NOTHING caused something (the universe). No Creator caused a creation. A big boom created this- lmao.

 

[sealybobo]

This is my thread and my responsibility to keep on topic. As such, I will be reporting every atheist pushing an agenda that has nothing to do with the thread topic. If you want to make the case that God doesn't exist, make your own damn thread. Do it here and I'll get the mods involved.

Don't doubt me.

Okay, on-topic then. As a former catholic, I think it is stupid to call the current resident of the vatican a communist. He isn't following marxist doctrine. If he was, he wouldn't be the Pope. But to answer your question, the Pope isn't there for you to like. He is there to lead. If you don't like his leadership, join another church.

I never dreamed they'd actually pick a liberal to be Pope but I suppose it has to do with winning back the members they lost as well as trying to win over new members. I think the catholic church realizes dogma ain't gonna do it. I remember talking to a liberal catholic and a conservative overheard us and she screamed DOGMA! He's not following it she screams. And notice they'll attack the leader of their faith if it conflicts with their politics or finances? God isn't even number one priority.

 

[sealybobo]

how mentally unstable the atheists are! Yeah- NOTHING caused something (the universe). No Creator caused a creation. A big boom created this- lmao.

Who created god? Why must the universe have a creator?

The universe or universes or cosmos exist. We don't know what or why or how. What we do know is as long as man has been intelligent enough to contemplate these unanswerable questions we have superstitiously believed that there must be. Science reveals that a god is not necessarily needed or required. And any religion that claims to have communicated with him back in antiquity is a lie.

Sorry off topic

 

[Vigilante]

This Pope has gotten many things wrong....

 

[Meriweather]

Couldn't have said it better myself. I use to be religious. I use to believe in god. Its why I know religious people are wrong. Unlike them I'm capable of thinking without the fear of going to hell for it. And when they claim I must be evil for rejecting their claims I know that's not true too. They don't realize they're the only ones getting emotional in this discussion. Sorry if believing 5000 people were fed with 5 loaves of bread and 3 fish is impossible. Facts are facts. Religious ppl believe in magic.

Fear of going to hell and not thinking for oneself is far from religion, even further from faith and belief in God. With all the atheists in my life, I can confidently say, where their thinking about God stopped at a certain point, mine zoomed on.

That being said, shame on all of those who claim you must be evil for questioning the existence of God or rejecting miracles. Discouraging questions discourages exploration. Scriptures tell us we must seek and search out God if we expect to find Him.

Second, miracles are not that important to me. They happened and they are long over--nothing that ever touched my life. On the other hand, when we see miracles in our own lives, dismissing miracles in the lives of people who lived in Biblical times makes no sense. Teachings on how to live my life, I value more than stories of miracles.

A natural explanation for the miracle of loaves and fish: People had followed Jesus to an out-of-the-way spot. Some, probably not knowing exactly where they were going or how long they would be gone, hurriedly packed something to eat. After hearing Jesus speak of love of God and neighbor, and about the Kingdom of God, it would be natural for people, who only brought enough for a small meal for themselves, would not want to eat among their hungry neighbors. Then one small boy volunteered to share all he had. Imagine Jesus blessing this food, and then offering it to the crowd. Others in the crowd, seeing a small boy (a child shall lead them) offering to share what he had, took out what they had and also shared. With this, there was more than enough for everyone.

I see nothing wrong with finding a natural explanation for a miracle. I see nothing wrong in believing the miraculous could happen then as easily as it happens now.

 

[Meriweather]

Okay, on-topic then. As a former catholic, I think it is stupid to call the current resident of the vatican a communist. He isn't following marxist doctrine. If he was, he wouldn't be the Pope. But to answer your question, the Pope isn't there for you to like. He is there to lead. If you don't like his leadership, join another church.

I tend to agree with this. I don't think the Pope is a proponent of any economic system, more like the observer who points out the flaws in any or all economic systems. Things, especially economic systems, easily get out of balance.

For me, the capitalistic economic system begins to tilt out of balance at the corporation level, where corporate businesses cover the nation/world instead of small independent businesses and partnerships. At the present time, more individuals are employees than employers. Communism has its imbalances as well.

Free speech encompasses freedom of expression. With the murders in Paris we see an expression of what Muslims think of people who poke fun at Mohammed and Islam. Freedom of expression should certainly stop well before people begin planning murders. On the other hand, must we antagonize people to the point they begin to plot murder?

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Now the Bible passage I posted is a very appropriate rebuke of Pope Francis. Christians are not called to be friends with the world, to promote worldly values, and to mimic the demonic bigotry of worldly political correctness. Trying to win popularity among reprobate humanity by necessity requires abandoning Christ and our obligation to be the Light of Christ to the nations.

No , it was Christs command.
John 13:34 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another."

Yes, that totally refutes what James said about not seeking friendship with the world. Jesus did a lot of that, contradicting and undermining his apostles. Can you detect the sarcasm? I laid it on kinda thick. If your post wasn't the stupidest so far, it's in the top 5.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

This Pope has gotten many things wrong....

Nobody's discussing this. It's almost as if they read the title to the thread and then responded. The Pope has not only been a tireless fiend of the very economic system that's brought more freedom and prosperity to the common man than any other, he then goes on to attack free speech, and does so with 4 Imams present.

The Imams give the whole thing a sinister veneer; like they were there to ensure and supervise the Pope as he properly surrenders to Islamic terror. This was far more outrageous than anything the Pope said about capitalism, but leave it to the dumbing down crowd to get hung up on the word communist.

 

[orogenicman]

Couldn't have said it better myself. I use to be religious. I use to believe in god. Its why I know religious people are wrong. Unlike them I'm capable of thinking without the fear of going to hell for it. And when they claim I must be evil for rejecting their claims I know that's not true too. They don't realize they're the only ones getting emotional in this discussion. Sorry if believing 5000 people were fed with 5 loaves of bread and 3 fish is impossible. Facts are facts. Religious ppl believe in magic.

Fear of going to hell and not thinking for oneself is far from religion, even further from faith and belief in God.

And yet many of the faithful have that very fear.

]Second, miracles are not that important to me. They happened and they are long over--nothing that ever touched my life. On the other hand, when we see miracles in our own lives, dismissing miracles in the lives of people who lived in Biblical times makes no sense. Still, teachings on how to live my life, I value more than stories of miracles.

It'll makes better sense when you read the quote in my sig, below.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Okay, on-topic then. As a former catholic, I think it is stupid to call the current resident of the vatican a communist. He isn't following marxist doctrine. If he was, he wouldn't be the Pope. But to answer your question, the Pope isn't there for you to like. He is there to lead. If you don't like his leadership, join another church.

I tend to agree with this. I don't think the Pope is a proponent of any economic system, more like the observer who points out the flaws in any or all economic systems. Things, especially economic systems, easily get out of balance.

For me, the capitalistic economic system begins to tilt out of balance at the corporation level, where corporate businesses cover the nation/world instead of small independent businesses and partnerships. At the present time, more individuals are employees than employers. Communism has its imbalances as well.

Free speech encompasses freedom of expression. With the murders in Paris we see an expression of what Muslims think of people who poke fun at Mohammed and Islam. Freedom of expression should certainly stop well before people begin planning murders. On the other hand, must we antagonize people to the point they begin to plot murder?

Antagonize people until they plot murder? I must be a bad Catholic because I'm the only one that sees the Pope as just a man and am willing to say he's wrong. The good Catholics all seem to find a way to justify any insane rant coming out of his mouth.

Truth is truth and the Pope is either speaking the truth or he isn't. I don't go along with turning anything he says into the truth. Western civilization places a high value on the freedom of expression and when somebody commits violence because they don't like what someone says, we punish the terrorist. We don't tell people to shut up and quit making terrorists kill people.

He's just a man, Meriweather. And he's wrong.