The Pope wants the Ukraine to surrender to Putin

[zaangalewa]

... the “courage” to raise the “white flag” ...

Was for sure one of the worst statements Pope Francis ever made. The only thing worse was the Vatican's decision that Catholic deacons may not be female.

I guess he thought about to send a negotiator before a battle starts with a white flag on reason to give the enemy a chance not to start a battle. It needs indeed courage to do so - specially in case of the Russians.

But this idea of Pope Francis was for sure not born in communication with Spain, Ireland, France, Germany, Italy or Poland or other European nations where many Catholics live. I do not hope the KGB patriarch of Moscow, Kirill, has something to do with this decision. And I doubt also that he spoke with the Ukrainian orthodox Christians before he said so.

So I beg all Ukrainians for pardon. I personally - one unknown Catholic under many unknown Catholics - have absolutelly not any problem if you you should like to surrender and I have absolutelly not any any problem if you like to do negotiations with whomever in Russia. But I personally see no courage in doing so. I personally think Putin can not be trusted - whatever he should say. And I think every Ukrainian is in danger to be killed after you surrendered - as the situation is in Belarus where everyone is gagged not to say anything about the devilish situation there, because otherwise innocent people from Belarus could be murdered.

Whatever, dear Ukrainians. I guess I speak for nearly all Germans when I say we will continue to support you - in the best of all possible ways. Not everything is possible - but this for sure not means you are alone. You are not alone. Also all Catholics pray for you, the Ukrainians, because you need the help of god. I would not know what to pray in case of Putin and the Russians because they are easily able to end this war which they started.

Let us all pray for the enlightenment of all Russian leaders - including Putin - to see that they have not any right to force anyone from whatever nation - and also not people of the own nation - under the tyrannic will of Putin and his criminal gang. God may help everyone who fights this criminals.

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Псалом. Пісня на день суботній. Як добре славити ГОСПОДА й співати імені Твоєму, Всевишній, звіщати вранці милість Твою і вірність Твою вночі на лірі десятиструнній і на арфі мелодійній! Бо Ти порадував мене, ГОСПОДИ, діянням Своїм, я веселюся справами рук Твоїх. Які величні діяння Твої, ГОСПОДИ, і які глибокі задуми Твої! Невіглас не знає, і нерозумний не збагне цього. Хоча нечестиві розростаються, як трава, і розквітають усі, хто чинить беззаконня, це лише, щоб зникнути навіки. Ти ж, ГОСПОДИ, навіки піднесений. Бо справді, вороги Твої, ГОСПОДИ, справді, вороги Твої загинуть, розсіються усі, хто чинить беззаконня. А Ти підніс мій ріг, як ріг тура, – я намащений свіжою олією. Око моє бачить падіння ворогів моїх, про злочинців, що проти мене повстали, чують мої вуха. Праведник цвіте, мов пальма, височить неначе кедр на Лівані. Посаджені в домі ГОСПОДНЬОМУ, вони цвістимуть у дворах Бога нашого. Навіть у старості принесуть плоди, будуть соковитими та свіжими, 16 щоб звіщати, що справедливий ГОСПОДЬ, скеля моя, і немає у Ньому кривди.
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He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will abide in the shadow of the Almighty. I will say to the Lord, “My refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust.” For he will deliver you from the snare of the fowler and from the deadly pestilence. He will cover you with his pinions, and under his wings you will find refuge; his faithfulness is a shield and buckler. You will not fear the terror of the night, nor the arrow that flies by day, nor the pestilence that stalks in darkness, nor the destruction that wastes at noonday. A thousand may fall at your side, ten thousand at your right hand, but it will not come near you. You will only look with your eyes and see the recompense of the wicked. Because you have made the Lord your dwelling place — the Most High, who is my refuge — no evil shall be allowed to befall you, no plague come near your tent. For he will command his angels concerning you to guard you in all your ways. On their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone. You will tread on the lion and the adder; the young lion and the serpent you will trample underfoot. Because he holds fast to me in love, I will deliver him; I will protect him, because he knows my name. When he calls to me, I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble; I will rescue him and honor him. With long life I will satisfy him and show him my salvation.”
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[Votto]

Was for sure one of the worst statements Pope Francis ever made. The only thing worse was the Vatican's decision that Catholic deacons may not be female.

I guess he thought about to send a negotiator before a battle starts with a white flag on reason to give the enemy a chance not to start a battle. It needs indeed courage to do so - specially in case of the Russians.

But this idea of Pope Francis was for sure not born in communication with Spain, Ireland, France, Germany, Italy or Poland or other European nations where many Catholics live. I do not hope the KGB patriarch of Moscow, Kirill, has something to do with this decision. And I doubt also that he spoke with the Ukrainian orthodox Christians before he said so.

So I beg all Ukrainians for pardon. I personally - one unknown Catholic under many unknown Catholics - have absolutelly not any problem if you you should like to surrender and I have absolutelly not any any problem if you like to do negotiations with whomever in Russia. But I personally see no courage in doing so. I personally think Putin can not be trusted - whatever he should say. And I think every Ukrainian is in danger to be killed after you surrendered - as the situation is in Belarus where everyone is gagged not to say anything about the devilish situation there, because otherwise innocent people from Belarus could be murdered.

Whatever, dear Ukrainians. I guess I speak for nearly all Germans when I say we will continue to support you - in the best of all possible ways. Not everything is possible - but this for sure not means you are alone. You are not alone. Also all Catholics pray for you, the Ukrainians, because you need the help of god. I would not know what to pray in case of Putin and the Russians because they are easily able to end this war which they started.

Let us all pray for the enlightenment of all Russian leaders - including Putin - to see that they have not any right to force anyone from whatever nation - and also not people of the own nation - under the tyrannic will of Putin and his criminal gang. God may help everyone who fights this criminals.

-----
Псалом. Пісня на день суботній. Як добре славити ГОСПОДА й співати імені Твоєму, Всевишній, звіщати вранці милість Твою і вірність Твою вночі на лірі десятиструнній і на арфі мелодійній! Бо Ти порадував мене, ГОСПОДИ, діянням Своїм, я веселюся справами рук Твоїх. Які величні діяння Твої, ГОСПОДИ, і які глибокі задуми Твої! Невіглас не знає, і нерозумний не збагне цього. Хоча нечестиві розростаються, як трава, і розквітають усі, хто чинить беззаконня, це лише, щоб зникнути навіки. Ти ж, ГОСПОДИ, навіки піднесений. Бо справді, вороги Твої, ГОСПОДИ, справді, вороги Твої загинуть, розсіються усі, хто чинить беззаконня. А Ти підніс мій ріг, як ріг тура, – я намащений свіжою олією. Око моє бачить падіння ворогів моїх, про злочинців, що проти мене повстали, чують мої вуха. Праведник цвіте, мов пальма, височить неначе кедр на Лівані. Посаджені в домі ГОСПОДНЬОМУ, вони цвістимуть у дворах Бога нашого. Навіть у старості принесуть плоди, будуть соковитими та свіжими, 16 щоб звіщати, що справедливий ГОСПОДЬ, скеля моя, і немає у Ньому кривди.
-----
He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will abide in the shadow of the Almighty. I will say to the Lord, “My refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust.” For he will deliver you from the snare of the fowler and from the deadly pestilence. He will cover you with his pinions, and under his wings you will find refuge; his faithfulness is a shield and buckler. You will not fear the terror of the night, nor the arrow that flies by day, nor the pestilence that stalks in darkness, nor the destruction that wastes at noonday. A thousand may fall at your side, ten thousand at your right hand, but it will not come near you. You will only look with your eyes and see the recompense of the wicked. Because you have made the Lord your dwelling place — the Most High, who is my refuge — no evil shall be allowed to befall you, no plague come near your tent. For he will command his angels concerning you to guard you in all your ways. On their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone. You will tread on the lion and the adder; the young lion and the serpent you will trample underfoot. Because he holds fast to me in love, I will deliver him; I will protect him, because he knows my name. When he calls to me, I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble; I will rescue him and honor him. With long life I will satisfy him and show him my salvation.”
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Of course, Putin cannot be trusted as no one trusts him nor ever should as he is a proven liar, murderer, and psychopath.

The question is, should Christians resist such men militarily, from a Christian perspective?

Should Christians take the road of pacifism, or should they fight?

Also, why does the Pope only comment on this conflict? Why does he not tell Hamas to lay down their arms as well?

 

[Blaster]

Nope. It is just this elected Pontiff, pontificating again.

Most Catholics have an unfavorable opinion of him.

 

[zaangalewa]

Of course, Putin cannot be trusted as no one trusts him nor ever should as he is a proven liar, murderer, and psychopath.

The question is, should Christians resist such men militarily, from a Christian perspective?

Should Christians take the road of pacifism, or should they fight?

Also, why does the Pope only comment on this conflict? Why does he not tell Hamas to lay down their arms as well?

For me this are no real questions. If I have to fight god will hopefully give me enough courage and clearness what's the best to do. And yes: I do not understand why the Palestinians do not fight the Hamas - nor do I understand why the Hamas got every year billions from America and Europe so everyone lived in the delusion the anti-democratic terror-organisation "Hamas" had all this money - which was only intended to be humanitarian help for all Palestinians.

 

[Votto]

For me this are no real questions. If I have to fight god will hopefully give me enough courage and clearness what's the best to do. And yes: I do not understand why the Palestinians do not fight the Hamas - nor do I understand why the Hamas got every year billions from America and Europe so everyone lived in the delusion the anti-democratic terror-organisation "Hamas" had all this money - which was only intended to be humanitarian help for all Palestinians.

I understand why the Palestinians elected Hamas to represent them.

From birth they are taught that Jews are evil and that to die in jihad is the ultimate goal in life.



Propaganda rules the ballot box.

Very sad.,

 

[Votto]

Most Catholics have an unfavorable opinion of him.

But there is an underlying debate in Christianity as to whether to take up arms against a military foe.

For example, many within the Catholic church refused to take up arms against Hitler, and then you had pastors like Bonhoeffer who did just that and gave up his life doing so.

 

[luiza]

The pope wants Ukraine to surrender. That would give Russia a green light for endless war | Nathalie Tocci

Pope Francis’s anti-western views are well known – and his new advice would lead not to peace, but a dangerous escalation, says Guardian Europe columnist Nathalie Tocci

www.theguardian.com

This is just fascinating to me.



Would Jesus tell them to surrender to Putin?

Jesus would / will appoint dear Uncle P as an Archangel .

As you should know, the original meaning of this term is , "Enforcer"

I feel sure the Elohim will welcome him to their ranks .

 

[zaangalewa]

I understand why the Palestinians elected Hamas to represent them.

The last election in Gaza had been 23 years ago. That's why I do not understand that America and Europe gave money to the Hamas without demanding legitimitation through genuine democratic elections. Are we all idiots? I know the answer. It's "yes"! I guess the Palestinians had the feeling they get only help from the Hamas - from our money - while the Hamas grew and betrayed them and us.

From birth they are taught that Jews are evil and that to die in jihad is the ultimate goal in life.



Propaganda rules the ballot box.

Very sad.,

The really strange thing is: The Palestinians are Arabs who had had since a long time now the highest population growth of the world - thanks of Israel who made out of a piece of dirty dust a modern livable region so wealth grew in this part of the world in and all around Israel. But the anti-Semites of the world - unbelievable how many anti-Semites exist - call the Jews Nazis doing a genocide.

 

[zaangalewa]

Jesus would / will appoint dear Uncle P as an Archangel.

For heavens sake: From which planet do you come? Putin is not only a "normal" murderer on reason of state and the own money any longer - meanwhile he is one of the worst evil mass-murderers as we all know very well from history all over the world. He's an empty murderous egocentristic decal.

As you should know, the original meaning of this term is , "Enforcer"

I feel sure the Elohim will welcome him to their ranks .

Vade retro, Satana!

 

[zaangalewa]

But there is an underlying debate in Christianity as to whether to take up arms against a military foe.

For example, many within the Catholic church refused to take up arms against Hitler

Are you mad? How many Catholics fought in the armies of the world against Hitler?

and then you had pastors like Bonhoeffer who did just that and gave up his life doing so.

If you should not know: the very most Protestants had not been like Dietrich Bonhoefer. Lots had also been so called "German Christians" = no Christians at all who liked to eliminate the Old Testament. Jesus was in the propaganda of this Nazi organisation the son of a German soldier in the Roman army who fought with a sword in the hands against Jews.

For example: Not any German Catholic noble had been on the side of Adolf Hitler. Reason: Hitler was not compatible with the Catholic faith. But some protestant nobles - even in England - had been on the side of Hitler.

I suggest by the way to make Dietrich Bonhoefer to a Catholic Saint although he not had been a Catholic.



Translation:

Who am I? They often tell me
I would step from my cell’s confinement
calmly and cheerfully and firmly,
like a squire from his country-house.

They also tell me
I would bear the days of misfortune
equably, smilingly and proudly,
like one accustomed to win.

Who am I?

Am I really all that which other men tell of?
Or am I only what I know of myself,
restless, longing, sick like a bird in a cage,
struggling for breath, as though hands were compressing my throat,
yearning for colours, for flowers, for the voices of birds,
thirsting for words of kindness, for neighbourliness,
faint, and ready to say farewell to it all?

Who am I? This or the other?
Am I both at once? A hypocrite before others,
and before myself a contemptibly woebegone weakling?

Whoever I am, thou knowest, Lord
I am thine forever, Oh God.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

I'm getting sick of seeing Ukrainians scold us for not sending more money to them... I would tell them to fuck off and fight their own wars... when 40% of fighting age men fled the country like cowards they deserve to lose....

Chicken Kiev

You mean the Ukraine doesn't have a never-to-be activated National Guard and Reserves so that sissyboy richkids can chicken out of the fighting and get away with their sheep saying, "At least he served."

Why do the Neo-Cons support a country that doesn't make its Preppies look like patriots?

 

[justoffal]

The pope wants Ukraine to surrender. That would give Russia a green light for endless war | Nathalie Tocci

Pope Francis’s anti-western views are well known – and his new advice would lead not to peace, but a dangerous escalation, says Guardian Europe columnist Nathalie Tocci

www.theguardian.com

This is just fascinating to me.


The suggestion from Pope Francis that Ukraine should have the “courage” to raise the “white flag” and negotiate a settlement with (in other words, surrender to) Russia was deeply shocking for Kyiv and its backers. The understandably outraged response from Ukraine’s foreign minister, Dmytro Kuleba, was that the only flag Kyiv would raise was its own: the yellow and blue of Ukraine.
Some may think that the pope’s words are inconsequential to how this war unfolds. It is not the first time Pope Francis has displayed overtly pro-Russian sympathies, nor has the Vatican’s mediation, for instance regarding the liberation of Ukrainian children kidnapped by Russia, been successful so far. So what if the pope speaks out again about the war, given that his views are already known and his practical efforts to address the humanitarian dimensions of the war have failed?

So, who here agrees with the Leftist Pope?

Would Jesus tell them to surrender to Putin?

But what of Hamas? Why does our Left-wing Pope not also tell Hamas to surrender to Israel as well?

Lastly, does it take courage to surrender to an adversary or stand up to that adversary knowing the consequences for doing so is grim?

It's not a pro Russian Sympathy....it's a humane sympathy. The issues that this war is being fought over are shallow and stupid. It's not being fought for the Ukranians, It's being fought for the wallets of Western politicians.