California suffering through SEVERE climate change

[Dot Com]

Really. A massive population increase has caused the rain to stop falling? Care to explain that one?

This ought to be good

 

[Crick]

Really. A massive population increase has caused the rain to stop falling? Care to explain that one?

Why would I explain your conclusion pole vaulting?

Heck, you've already proven yourself to ignore data that conflicts with your beliefs...

Do you deny the massive population increase?
Do you deny the SW is a desert?

You cannot.

Yet, we are supposed to believe your contention that, if only some rain would fall in the SW, everything would be copacetic?

Let's address your specific position...are you saying that if rain doesn't increase at the same rate as demand for potable water, then global warming is the chief concern?

Come on dude...bring it....

On the maps below, in areas where the rainfall was normal over the given time period, the maps would be GREEN.

CalClim California Climate Data Archive

See a lot of green?

Baseline averages are from the PRISM dataset, 1895 to present.

 

[Crick]

Yet, we are supposed to believe your contention that, if only some rain would fall in the SW, everything would be copacetic?

Let's address your specific position...are you saying that if rain doesn't increase at the same rate as demand for potable water, then global warming is the chief concern?

My contention is that the chance of droughts like this occurring increases with increasing global warming. Precipitation in the western US is strongly subject to the ENSO cycles whose timing and magnitude have been affected by global warming. Whatever the cause of this drought, there exists a very high likelihood that due to global warming, we will see more of these in the future than we have seen in the past. THAT is my position. Your attempt to mischaracterize my position in your second paragraph was a pathetic attempt at making a straw man: it is supported by NOTHING I have said here.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Yet, we are supposed to believe your contention that, if only some rain would fall in the SW, everything would be copacetic?

Let's address your specific position...are you saying that if rain doesn't increase at the same rate as demand for potable water, then global warming is the chief concern?

My contention is that the chance of droughts like this occurring increases with increasing global warming. Precipitation in the western US is strongly subject to the ENSO cycles whose timing and magnitude have been affected by global warming. Whatever the cause of this drought, there exists a very high likelihood that due to global warming, we will see more of these in the future than we have seen in the past. THAT is my position. Your attempt to mischaracterize my position in your second paragraph was a pathetic attempt at making a straw man: it is supported by NOTHING I have said here.

Can you predict where these next drought will occur or are your models only accurate retroactively?

After Katrina the AGWCult predicted Cat 5 Hurricanes making landfall would be a common occurrence.

 

[Crick]

Can YOU predict where the next drought will occur? You have access to the same data as do I.

You have seen predictions of increased storm intensity. Taking into account the hiatus in surface warming, caused primarily by cold water being driven to the surface, what we have seen is no surprise. However, that energy won't stay there forever. The Pacific saw a Cat 4 storm two weeks before the season began and the pending El Nino hasn't really gotten started. Ignoring the heat buildup in the oceans is a perilous mistake. Ask the families of the more than 6,300 people KILLED by Typhoon Haiyan, 3.5 TIMES the number killed by Katrina.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Can YOU predict where the next drought will occur? You have access to the same data as do I.

You have seen predictions of increased storm intensity. Taking into account the hiatus in surface warming, caused primarily by cold water being driven to the surface, what we have seen is no surprise. However, that energy won't stay there forever. The Pacific saw a Cat 4 storm two weeks before the season began and the pending El Nino hasn't really gotten started. Ignoring the heat buildup in the oceans is a perilous mistake. Ask the families of the more than 6,300 people KILLED by Typhoon Haiyan, 3.5 TIMES the number killed by Katrina.

I'm not stupid or arrogant enough to make those predictions. Your "Science" and "Predictions" are nothing more than pointing at the Weather Channel and saying, "See that, Denier?!! ManMade Global Warming!!"

 

[Crick]

That would be incorrect. My prediction is based on the simple observation that high sea surface temperatures make for more powerful storms. Raise the world's temperature and weather will become more intense.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

That would be incorrect. My prediction is based on the simple observation that high sea surface temperatures make for more powerful storms. Raise the world's temperature and weather will become more intense.

Show me one time how a 120PPM increase in CO2 does that and you're on your way to real science

 

[Crick]

Did you take my suggestion to look into the thread entitled "CO2 Experiments Posted Here"?

Is there any particular reason you keep jumping around from topic to topic? Do you accept that higher sea surface temperatures will provide more energy for hurricanes and typhoons?

 

[flacaltenn]

Really. A massive population increase has caused the rain to stop falling? Care to explain that one?

Everyone can see that you and Dottie put very little effort into UNDERSTANDING precipt in Cali.. Because you assert that THIS TIME "the rain stopped falling" is caused by your GW Bad JuJu.. And you wont' let any other possibilities enter your idea drought parched brains..

Since most of storable water comes from snowpack, you also need this.

So here's one of the Environment Forum threads that you always complain about.. You know -- the ones that have NOTHING TO DO with Global Warming.. So why the hell are you still here???

 

[CrusaderFrank]

That would be incorrect. My prediction is based on the simple observation that high sea surface temperatures make for more powerful storms. Raise the world's temperature and weather will become more intense.

Well good thing the world's temperature has been the same these past 15-20 years

 

[boedicca]

CA's water problem is due to lack of investment in storage and distribution infrastructure for the past few decades. While the population has more than doubled, we've actually lost capacity due to enviro efforts to have dams destroyed.

This is naturally arid country which was able to be used for agriculture due to dams, reservoirs, and irrigation. We need reservoirs to store water during wet years.

Also, the El Nino has been very inactive for the past few years. We're expecting a weak one this winter; should result in some rain, but not enough.

 

[Crick]

The water problem is worsened by California's inadequate (in our 20-20 hindsight) preparations. The shortage of water is from an actual drought: an unusual reduction in the amount of precipitation for a period now lasting several years.

 

[Tom Sweetnam]

We had a terrible drought a few years ago. It was so bad, there was some talk of building desalinization plants along the ocean. Then it rained and the plan was scrapped, as if we would never again have another drought.

The climate is the same. It is just fine as it is. We have too many people living in California so droughts have a much more severe effect than it did say in the 50s or even 60s.

Yep. I'm a native of Californian though I live in Colorado now...in one of America's true deserts, the San Luis Valley. Long ago, California needed to build additional reservoirs and aqueducts. Too bad the Romans aren't around anymore. They'd show us how to do it efficiently. 99% of California's rainfall and snow melt-off ends up draining off to the ocean. California needs to capture some of that fresh water and store it in reservoirs.

The most dangerous portent regarding our ongoing drought in the Southwest, is the fact that Hoover Damn's reservoir is at its lowest level ever. Add the fact that our White House moron just agreed to send Mexico 30% more water from our common rivers...this in the middle of one of the worst droughts in two decades.

Anyway, there's a great book on all this, written more than two decades ago by Marc Reisner, called 'Cadillac Desert'. PBS adapted it into a pretty decent video documentary. The Amazon blurb: "Beautifully written and meticulously researched."—St. Louis Post-Dispatch. This updated study of the economics, politics, and ecology of water covers more than a century of public and private desert reclamation in the American West." You can get it on Kindle. It's a fascinating read if you live in the Southwest.

 

[Crick]

Because you assert that THIS TIME "the rain stopped falling" is caused by your GW Bad JuJu.

Why don't you go and find the post where I said that.

 

[Dot Com]

CA's water problem is due to lack of investment in storage and distribution infrastructure for the past few decades. While the population has more than doubled, we've actually lost capacity due to enviro efforts to have dams destroyed.

This is naturally arid country which was able to be used for agriculture due to dams, reservoirs, and irrigation. We need reservoirs to store water during wet years.

Also, the El Nino has been very inactive for the past few years. We're expecting a weak one this winter; should result in some rain, but not enough.

link?

 

[flacaltenn]

Because you assert that THIS TIME "the rain stopped falling" is caused by your GW Bad JuJu.

Why don't you go and find the post where I said that.

Post #303 for one you dishonest bozo......

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Because you assert that THIS TIME "the rain stopped falling" is caused by your GW Bad JuJu.

Why don't you go and find the post where I said that.

Are you just plain fucking nuts???? You just said that AGW causes it!!!

 

[flacaltenn]

Because you assert that THIS TIME "the rain stopped falling" is caused by your GW Bad JuJu.

Why don't you go and find the post where I said that.

Are you just plain fucking nuts???? You just said that AGW causes it!!!

If it wasn't about GW -- Crick would insult the thread and never participate. Empirical evidence does suggest "nuts" is a possible diagnosis.

 

[Crick]

I said "My contention is that the chance of droughts like this occurring increases with increasing global warming. Precipitation in the western US is strongly subject to the ENSO cycles whose timing and magnitude have been affected by global warming. Whatever the cause of this drought, there exists a very high likelihood that due to global warming, we will see more of these in the future than we have seen in the past. THAT is my position."

Are you under the impression that pre-industrial rainfall in southern california was so low that it's not possible for the area to suffer a drought?