Buster Douglas Mike Tyson 30 for 30 tomorrow night

[rightwinger]

Ali had an uncanny ability to slip punches. The first time anyone connected with him was in the first Frazier fight.

OTOH, Tyson had an ability to put punchers on their heels and just fuck them up. So it's impossible to say how those two would have come out, both in their prime.

Larry Holmes was the best "boxer" in the heavyweight division. Despite having a record number of consecutive "knockouts," he never knocked anyone out (for the count). Tap, tap, tap, jab, jab, jab, jab. Nothing else. All arm punches with no power. He would just jab the hell out of his opponents until they were so tired and bloody they couldn't continue. That's OK if you are a flyweight, but as heavyweight champion? Pretty pathetic. Which is why he never got no respect...and it drove him crazy.

No heavyweight ever faced the quality of opponents that Ali defeated.

Larry Holmes ran up an impressive number of victories (including an aged Ali) But had no marquee victories

 

[Rocko]

Ali had an uncanny ability to slip punches. The first time anyone connected with him was in the first Frazier fight.

OTOH, Tyson had an ability to put punchers on their heels and just fuck them up. So it's impossible to say how those two would have come out, both in their prime.

Larry Holmes was the best "boxer" in the heavyweight division. Despite having a record number of consecutive "knockouts," he never knocked anyone out (for the count). Tap, tap, tap, jab, jab, jab, jab. Nothing else. All arm punches with no power. He would just jab the hell out of his opponents until they were so tired and bloody they couldn't continue. That's OK if you are a flyweight, but as heavyweight champion? Pretty pathetic. Which is why he never got no respect...and it drove him crazy.

No heavyweight ever faced the quality of opponents that Ali defeated.

Larry Holmes ran up an impressive number of victories (including an aged Ali) But had no marquee victories

Larry Homes also had the uncanny ability to take a punch, but let back to Ali. Sure you think Ali fought the greatest competition because the heavyweights back then were in the media spotlight. The truth is athletes, including boxers, have gotten better, not worse. The media hasn’t really covered the heavyweight division since Lennox Lewis. Back then heavyweights were superstars. Ali was a generational talent for sure, but he’d have trouble with a guy like Shannon Briggs even. The training, supplements, knowledge of nutrition and exercise, and knowledge of the sport are vastly superior in the modern day era then that of yesteryear. Tyson would have made easy work of Ali.

 

[rightwinger]

Ali had an uncanny ability to slip punches. The first time anyone connected with him was in the first Frazier fight.

OTOH, Tyson had an ability to put punchers on their heels and just fuck them up. So it's impossible to say how those two would have come out, both in their prime.

Larry Holmes was the best "boxer" in the heavyweight division. Despite having a record number of consecutive "knockouts," he never knocked anyone out (for the count). Tap, tap, tap, jab, jab, jab, jab. Nothing else. All arm punches with no power. He would just jab the hell out of his opponents until they were so tired and bloody they couldn't continue. That's OK if you are a flyweight, but as heavyweight champion? Pretty pathetic. Which is why he never got no respect...and it drove him crazy.

No heavyweight ever faced the quality of opponents that Ali defeated.

Larry Holmes ran up an impressive number of victories (including an aged Ali) But had no marquee victories

Larry Homes also had the uncanny ability to take a punch, but let back to Ali. Sure you think Ali fought the greatest competition because the heavyweights back then were in the media spotlight. The truth is athletes, including boxers, have gotten better, not worse. The media hasn’t really covered the heavyweight division since Lennox Lewis. Back then heavyweights were superstars. Ali was a generational talent for sure, but he’d have trouble with a guy like Shannon Briggs even. The training, supplements, knowledge of nutrition and exercise, and knowledge of the sport are vastly superior in the modern day era then that of yesteryear. Tyson would have made easy work of Ali.

For the most part, I have to agree
Atheletes of the current era are always better in all sports

Boxing is hard to measure since it is nowhere near the popularity it once had. I don’t blame the media for not covering a sport nobody cares about anymore. Many factors including greed, corruption and a changing sports world led to their demise

I just can’t watch MMA

 

[DGS49]

Rocco, you are wrong.

The important thing about the quality of boxers over time is, how many of the top athletes in any generation pursue boxing as a career?

Boxing is a sport for poor people with no other options. As options multiply, fewer and fewer people (mainly Black people) look to boxing as their "ticket out." The top heavyweights of the Ali era would all be playing football if they were growing up now, or possibly basketball. Who the hell wants to spend his youth getting beat up in a dirty, hot gym? The fewer people vying for success in a sport, the less success they will have at the top levels. Today's top heavyweights are nowhere near as good as the crop that Ali beat.

Ironically, the same principle explains the lack of great American tennis players. Pursuing tennis at the top levels in the U.S. requires RESOURCES that middle-class people don't generally possess. You have to have individual coaches, and by the time you are a teenager you have to be LIVING at a facility where tennis is the main thing. If you pursue tennis in high school and college (as middle class people do in the U.S.), you will never make it to the highest levels. So the number of players who actually have the resources to "make it" in tennis in the U.S. is very small, and that's why "we" suck internationally.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Rocco, you are wrong.

The important thing about the quality of boxers over time is, how many of the top athletes in any generation pursue boxing as a career?

Boxing is a sport for poor people with no other options. As options multiply, fewer and fewer people (mainly Black people) look to boxing as their "ticket out." The top heavyweights of the Ali era would all be playing football if they were growing up now, or possibly basketball. Who the hell wants to spend his youth getting beat up in a dirty, hot gym? The fewer people vying for success in a sport, the less success they will have at the top levels. Today's top heavyweights are nowhere near as good as the crop that Ali beat.

Ironically, the same principle explains the lack of great American tennis players. Pursuing tennis at the top levels in the U.S. requires RESOURCES that middle-class people don't generally possess. You have to have individual coaches, and by the time you are a teenager you have to be LIVING at a facility where tennis is the main thing. If you pursue tennis in high school and college (as middle class people do in the U.S.), you will never make it to the highest levels. So the number of players who actually have the resources to "make it" in tennis in the U.S. is very small, and that's why "we" suck internationally.

Only someone really desperate is going to put their kid into boxing, or like Tyson, be groomed by a trainer who finds you.

Playing football is dangerous enough, though safety has thankfully become a major part of the sport now; but boxing is about as sure a way as any to physical problems the rest of your life. Even if you have the most successful of careers and only a very small percentage make large money, you are almost destined for head trauma and other issues.

 

[Rocko]

Rocco, you are wrong.

The important thing about the quality of boxers over time is, how many of the top athletes in any generation pursue boxing as a career?

Boxing is a sport for poor people with no other options. As options multiply, fewer and fewer people (mainly Black people) look to boxing as their "ticket out." The top heavyweights of the Ali era would all be playing football if they were growing up now, or possibly basketball. Who the hell wants to spend his youth getting beat up in a dirty, hot gym? The fewer people vying for success in a sport, the less success they will have at the top levels. Today's top heavyweights are nowhere near as good as the crop that Ali beat.

Ironically, the same principle explains the lack of great American tennis players. Pursuing tennis at the top levels in the U.S. requires RESOURCES that middle-class people don't generally possess. You have to have individual coaches, and by the time you are a teenager you have to be LIVING at a facility where tennis is the main thing. If you pursue tennis in high school and college (as middle class people do in the U.S.), you will never make it to the highest levels. So the number of players who actually have the resources to "make it" in tennis in the U.S. is very small, and that's why "we" suck internationally.

I think that’s part of the story, yes, but imo athletes in general, including boxers, are better in all phases of their respective sports. Boxing has evolved since the likes of Ali and Smoking Joe.

 

[rightwinger]

Rocco, you are wrong.

The important thing about the quality of boxers over time is, how many of the top athletes in any generation pursue boxing as a career?

Boxing is a sport for poor people with no other options. As options multiply, fewer and fewer people (mainly Black people) look to boxing as their "ticket out." The top heavyweights of the Ali era would all be playing football if they were growing up now, or possibly basketball. Who the hell wants to spend his youth getting beat up in a dirty, hot gym? The fewer people vying for success in a sport, the less success they will have at the top levels. Today's top heavyweights are nowhere near as good as the crop that Ali beat.

Ironically, the same principle explains the lack of great American tennis players. Pursuing tennis at the top levels in the U.S. requires RESOURCES that middle-class people don't generally possess. You have to have individual coaches, and by the time you are a teenager you have to be LIVING at a facility where tennis is the main thing. If you pursue tennis in high school and college (as middle class people do in the U.S.), you will never make it to the highest levels. So the number of players who actually have the resources to "make it" in tennis in the U.S. is very small, and that's why "we" suck internationally.

It amazes me how far tennis has fallen in this country
When I was a teen in the early 70s, public tennis courts were jammed. I would wait 40 minutes to get a court.
I have a couple public tennis courts near me now and I hardly ever see anyone playing on them and almost no kids. Sporting goods stores have very little tennis gear

 

[WheelieAddict]

Imgur

 

[rightwinger]

Rocco, you are wrong.

The important thing about the quality of boxers over time is, how many of the top athletes in any generation pursue boxing as a career?

Boxing is a sport for poor people with no other options. As options multiply, fewer and fewer people (mainly Black people) look to boxing as their "ticket out." The top heavyweights of the Ali era would all be playing football if they were growing up now, or possibly basketball. Who the hell wants to spend his youth getting beat up in a dirty, hot gym? The fewer people vying for success in a sport, the less success they will have at the top levels. Today's top heavyweights are nowhere near as good as the crop that Ali beat.

Ironically, the same principle explains the lack of great American tennis players. Pursuing tennis at the top levels in the U.S. requires RESOURCES that middle-class people don't generally possess. You have to have individual coaches, and by the time you are a teenager you have to be LIVING at a facility where tennis is the main thing. If you pursue tennis in high school and college (as middle class people do in the U.S.), you will never make it to the highest levels. So the number of players who actually have the resources to "make it" in tennis in the U.S. is very small, and that's why "we" suck internationally.

I think that’s part of the story, yes, but imo athletes in general, including boxers, are better in all phases of their respective sports. Boxing has evolved since the likes of Ali and Smoking Joe.

I can’t really say. I haven’t watched a bout since Pacquiao/ Mayweather and that was a major disappointment
I couldn’t even tell you who the Heavyweight champ is

 

[shockedcanadian]

Rocco, you are wrong.

The important thing about the quality of boxers over time is, how many of the top athletes in any generation pursue boxing as a career?

Boxing is a sport for poor people with no other options. As options multiply, fewer and fewer people (mainly Black people) look to boxing as their "ticket out." The top heavyweights of the Ali era would all be playing football if they were growing up now, or possibly basketball. Who the hell wants to spend his youth getting beat up in a dirty, hot gym? The fewer people vying for success in a sport, the less success they will have at the top levels. Today's top heavyweights are nowhere near as good as the crop that Ali beat.

Ironically, the same principle explains the lack of great American tennis players. Pursuing tennis at the top levels in the U.S. requires RESOURCES that middle-class people don't generally possess. You have to have individual coaches, and by the time you are a teenager you have to be LIVING at a facility where tennis is the main thing. If you pursue tennis in high school and college (as middle class people do in the U.S.), you will never make it to the highest levels. So the number of players who actually have the resources to "make it" in tennis in the U.S. is very small, and that's why "we" suck internationally.

It amazes me how far tennis has fallen in this country
When I was a teen in the early 70s, public tennis courts were jammed. I would wait 40 minutes to get a court.
I have a couple public tennis courts near me now and I hardly ever see anyone playing on them and almost no kids. Sporting goods stores have very little tennis gear

Video games and the internet.

 

[Rocko]

Imgur

Now does anyone have footage of Ali training that compares to that?

 

[rightwinger]

Imgur

Now does anyone have footage of Ali training that compares to that?

Kevin Rooney stands in one place as Tyson bears in on him

Joe Frazier fought the same way. Constantly bearing in looking for the big left hook.

Over two decades, Ali fought all styles and figured out how to beat them

 

[WheelieAddict]

Oh you guys are arguing. I just dropped by to post that great gif of Iron Mike training. I say Jim Brown was better than both if you threw him in the ring lol.

 

[Rocko]

Imgur

Now does anyone have footage of Ali training that compares to that?

Kevin Rooney stands in one place as Tyson bears in on him

Joe Frazier fought the same way. Constantly bearing in looking for the big left hook.

Over two decades, Ali fought all styles and figured out how to beat them

Well Frazier did beat Ali once, so......

 

[rightwinger]

Oh you guys are arguing. I just dropped by to post that great gif of Iron Mike training. I say Jim Brown was better than both if you threw him in the ring lol.

The time Jim Brown learned that fighting Muhammad Ali was a terrible idea

“So I went to talk to Ali,” Arum told Mannix. “He says, ‘Jim wants to do what? Bring him here.’ So I took him to Hyde Park in London, where Ali used to run. Ali said, ‘Jimmy, here’s what we’re going to do: You hit me as hard as you can.’

So Brown starts swinging and swinging, and he can’t hit him. He’s swinging wildly and not even coming close. This goes on for, like, 30 seconds. Then Ali hits him with this quick one-two to his face. Jimmy just stops and says, ‘Okay, I get the point.’ ”

 

[Rocko]

Wilt chamberlain was the guy that a lot of ppl thought could beat Ali. Don’t shoot the messenger

 

[shockedcanadian]

Imgur

Now does anyone have footage of Ali training that compares to that?

Kevin Rooney stands in one place as Tyson bears in on him

Joe Frazier fought the same way. Constantly bearing in looking for the big left hook.

Over two decades, Ali fought all styles and figured out how to beat them

Well Frazier did beat Ali once, so......

And was robbed of another win...an assertion I will subscribe to until the day the Good Lord takes me. Everyone knows there is nothing more crooked than the Fight Game, especially back then.

 

[rightwinger]

Wilt chamberlain was the guy that a lot of ppl thought could beat Ali. Don’t shoot the messenger

 

[Rocko]

Imgur

Now does anyone have footage of Ali training that compares to that?

Kevin Rooney stands in one place as Tyson bears in on him

Joe Frazier fought the same way. Constantly bearing in looking for the big left hook.

Over two decades, Ali fought all styles and figured out how to beat them

Well Frazier did beat Ali once, so......

And was robbed of another win...an assertion I will subscribe to until the day the Good Lord takes me. Everyone knows there is nothing more crooked than the Fight Game, especially back then.

I can’t say. I didn’t watch any of the fights. I did see that vicious Frazier KO though

 

[WheelieAddict]

If you ever find yourself in upstate NY check out the boxing hall of fame. It used to be tiny but packed with awesome memorabilia, its improved now, worth a visit if you are a boxing or sports fan.