Building the Border Fence - A Public/Private Partnership

[bripat9643]

How much is it going to cost?

$12.25 billion.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

How much is it going to cost?

$12.25 billion.

Does that include the land you have to take from their rightful owners?

 

[FA_Q2]

Why is that the people that claim a fence along the Mexican border will not work, have no problem with Israel building a fence/wall to protect their border?

Is it a Fence Is it a Wall No it s a Separation Barrier The Electronic Intifada

Or Saudi Arabia is building a 600-mile long wall along its northern border with Iraq
http://www.newsweek.com/saudi-arabia-constructing-600-mile-long-wall-keep-isis-out-299664

Seems that walls and fences work for everyone but the US

There is the slight issue that we are not Israelis - we are American. .

Hmmmm . . . so? Does that mean we can't learn from them?

I don't really care if they decide to cut down a tree with a herring - it is their nation to do with as they deem necessary and discover what is effective there..

One way we learn is by observing others. Those who cannot learn by observation are doomed to learn the hard way. That's how you want us to learn, by getting slapped upside the head with a 2X4.

The question remains will such work HERE. I think the clear answer is no - technology fills that gap more efficiently and we need something more efficient than a draconian barrier.

A fence is technology, numskull. What "technology" do you imagine would work better than a fence? You actually don't want to control the border. You want to flood this country with illegal aliens because they vote Democrat. You're just another traitorous asshole who doesn't give a fuck about his own culture.

The main reason assholes like you don't like the fence is that once it's built you can't just dispose of it by Executive Order. It remains where it is, and it does it's job. No president could look the other way and allow illegals to destroy it. Drones can disappear with the stroke of the pen. Border guards can disappear with the stroke of the pen, but not the fence. Hence, you hate it. It's the only real obstacle to your scheme to turn this country into Aztlan.

As I ma not a democrat your asinine insults are rather idiotic.

A fence is not 'technology' in any meaningful sense unless you think it is still 10AD. Sensors are tech and they are massively more efficient and FAR cheaper.

Fences are tech if you provide them with tech, like motion sensors to detect people digging a tunnel.

The bottom line is that fences work. They have worked for 10,000 years. You haven't mentioned any "technology" that would work better than a fence. The later has the added bonus that scumbags like Obama can't make it disappear with the stroke of a pen.

I have mentioned it several times. I cant help the fact that you seem to only see what you want to see in any post you read. Motion sensors, infrared detectors and sound detectors to name a few. All of those (hopefully combined) will make a far better security net than a fence and be cheaper.

 

[FA_Q2]

He never gave a damn about property rights in his entire life.

Entirely untrue, and you are the one who wants to take their property for a fence.

Eminent domain is the law of the land. If we are going to use it to build damns, freeways and shopping malls, then we can damn well use it to defend our border. If there was ever a valid justification for using it, that's it.

That being said, if anyone ever proposes an amendment to abolish eminent domain, I'm for it.

Then you couldn't get your fence eh?

Your lack of support for property rights is noted.

The border is not privately owned.

 

[bripat9643]

Why is that the people that claim a fence along the Mexican border will not work, have no problem with Israel building a fence/wall to protect their border?

Is it a Fence Is it a Wall No it s a Separation Barrier The Electronic Intifada

Or Saudi Arabia is building a 600-mile long wall along its northern border with Iraq
http://www.newsweek.com/saudi-arabia-constructing-600-mile-long-wall-keep-isis-out-299664

Seems that walls and fences work for everyone but the US

There is the slight issue that we are not Israelis - we are American. .

Hmmmm . . . so? Does that mean we can't learn from them?

I don't really care if they decide to cut down a tree with a herring - it is their nation to do with as they deem necessary and discover what is effective there..

One way we learn is by observing others. Those who cannot learn by observation are doomed to learn the hard way. That's how you want us to learn, by getting slapped upside the head with a 2X4.

The question remains will such work HERE. I think the clear answer is no - technology fills that gap more efficiently and we need something more efficient than a draconian barrier.

A fence is technology, numskull. What "technology" do you imagine would work better than a fence? You actually don't want to control the border. You want to flood this country with illegal aliens because they vote Democrat. You're just another traitorous asshole who doesn't give a fuck about his own culture.

The main reason assholes like you don't like the fence is that once it's built you can't just dispose of it by Executive Order. It remains where it is, and it does it's job. No president could look the other way and allow illegals to destroy it. Drones can disappear with the stroke of the pen. Border guards can disappear with the stroke of the pen, but not the fence. Hence, you hate it. It's the only real obstacle to your scheme to turn this country into Aztlan.

As I ma not a democrat your asinine insults are rather idiotic.

A fence is not 'technology' in any meaningful sense unless you think it is still 10AD. Sensors are tech and they are massively more efficient and FAR cheaper.

Fences are tech if you provide them with tech, like motion sensors to detect people digging a tunnel.

The bottom line is that fences work. They have worked for 10,000 years. You haven't mentioned any "technology" that would work better than a fence. The later has the added bonus that scumbags like Obama can't make it disappear with the stroke of a pen.

I have mentioned it several times. I cant help the fact that you seem to only see what you want to see in any post you read. Motion sensors, infrared detectors and sound detectors to name a few. All of those (hopefully combined) will make a far better security net than a fence and be cheaper.

Those would all be incorporated into the fence, nimrod. So how would leaving the fence out improve anything? Furthermore, a scumbag can make them all disappear with the stroke of a pen if they aren't part of a permanent structure.

 

[danielpalos]

Yes, and we still have Commerce Clause that no amount of willful appeal to ignorance can make go away; why are we losing money on Commerce at our borders.

Are there no Good Capitalists to be found?

 

[PaintMyHouse]

He never gave a damn about property rights in his entire life.

Entirely untrue, and you are the one who wants to take their property for a fence.

Eminent domain is the law of the land. If we are going to use it to build damns, freeways and shopping malls, then we can damn well use it to defend our border. If there was ever a valid justification for using it, that's it.

That being said, if anyone ever proposes an amendment to abolish eminent domain, I'm for it.

Then you couldn't get your fence eh?

Your lack of support for property rights is noted.

The border is not privately owned.

Yes, a lot of it is. Landowners Along U.S.-Mexico Border Claim Gov t Is Abusing its Power to Take Land at Unfair Prices TheBlaze.com

 

[OnePercenter]

The left is too bleeding heart, the right is too hypocritical in the fact they like cheap labor, Sheriff Joe doesn't want to arrest the people that get him elected, and Canadians like spending our money.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Instead of going over or under the wall, the illegals will just go around.

I see boat people.

Boats are easy to locate and stop.

AGM-84 cruise missiles work nicely.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Do you really think a wall will keep out illegals?

It will keep out 95% of them. Walls and fences have worked every time they have been tried.

When you you leftwing turds going to admit that you don't want to seal the border?

Who do you think you're fooling?

ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

Just cause you can't get over a wall does not mean 99.99999999999999999999% of the population can't.

Make it 15' high, top it with 15' of razor wire humming with 50,000 volts and 100 amps, surround it with a 100-yard no-man's land, covered with machine guns on motion detectors and liberally sown with land mines. Patrol it with armed helicopters with "shoot on sight" ROE. Attempting to cross illegally should be nearly impossible and almost-always fatal.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Do you really think a wall will keep out illegals?

It will keep out 95% of them. Walls and fences have worked every time they have been tried.

When you you leftwing turds going to admit that you don't want to seal the border?

Who do you think you're fooling?

ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

Just cause you can't get over a wall does not mean 99.99999999999999999999% of the population can't.

It will take them a lot of work to get over a well designed wall. Meanwhile the border patrol will be waiting for them when they step foot on the other side.

The Israeli wall works astoundingly well, so what do the Israelis know that liberals are too stupid to figure out?

You are comparing apples to oranges. Clearly you've never seen our southern border. You can't wall it or fence it... there's already a RIVER there and it does nothing to slow people down.

False premise. Nobody having the stones to do it is not the same as "it can't be done".

We don't have a functional border patrol. We use our border patrol as bus drivers to bring illegal mexicans up to processing centers put them up in nice digs before we give them money and food and bus them around the country to collect welfare. ROFL[/qauote]

I agree: they should instead be shooting illegals on sight.

The Israeli fence is minuscule by comparison and it's near heavy population already. Our border is in the middle of nowhere for thousands of miles. It's like comparing paring a fence at a prison (israel) to a fence in the middle of the sahara desert... its a silly comparison.

What you need to take care of the border is men and a mission to stop them from coming over vs. help them come over.

Yes: wall off Mexico. Kill anyone trying to cross.

 

[Jarlaxle]

[

Narco tunels have been becoming increasingly sofisticated. And although the primary use is drug smuggling I find no reason for which they could not be used to allow persons cross the border.

Underground microphones and ground-penetrating radar. When found...pump them full of nerve gas.

 

[francoHFW]

Do you really think a wall will keep out illegals?

It will keep out 95% of them. Walls and fences have worked every time they have been tried.

When you you leftwing turds going to admit that you don't want to seal the border?

Who do you think you're fooling?

ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

Just cause you can't get over a wall does not mean 99.99999999999999999999% of the population can't.

Make it 15' high, top it with 15' of razor wire humming with 50,000 volts and 100 amps, surround it with a 100-yard no-man's land, covered with machine guns on motion detectors and liberally sown with land mines. Patrol it with armed helicopters with "shoot on sight" ROE. Attempting to cross illegally should be nearly impossible and almost-always fatal.

I can't imagine anything more un-American, stupid, and useless, hater dupe. How 'bout a good SS/work ID card that would actually solve the problem? Most illegals come in legally and overstay their visas. Then they can get a fake ID and stay. What you don't understand is that greedy idiot megarich Pubs who run your disgrace of a party LOVE CHEAP LABOR and distract you functional morons whith STUPID HATE.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Not if the method in the OP is used. Even if it isn't used, the fence is cheaper than the manpower required without it.

The answer is removing the reason that illegals come to the US; money.

New law: Any employer that hires an illegal is subject to a one-million dollar fine and mandatory ten years in federal prison for each illegal. The left won't like it due to 'human rights.' The right won't like it because they're hypocrites.

I've already posted my idea for a wall on this forum. I will build it, but it will cost $20 trillion per year to run. I'll even give a $1M per person that gets through fine.

The problem is: sometimes, you just have no way of knowing someone is an illegal! The employer checks, it comes back clean. I worked with one...he had a valid license, a CDL, no less, and a valid school bus license! About 8 months later, he left...back to Ecuador, just ahead of ICE.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Yes. Is there some reason you think mexicans would refuse to cut wire?

The fact that attempting to do so would reduce them to carbonized dust, perhaps?

 

[Jarlaxle]

That's just an expression of your hatred of corporations. The laws on the books would be perfectly adequate if they were enforced. the harshest laws in the world won't do a thing if they aren't enforced. Currently, I believe, an employer can be fined $5000 for every illegal alien found working on the premises. If these fines were ever imposed, hiring of illegals would end tomorrow.

It's amusing to see you talking about what the left won't like since you are part of the left.

Thank You for reiterating my point!

FYI: I'm no more left than you are a United States citizen.

I'm pro working class which is the end of the discussion.

Are you LYING or just STUPID? You're just another trust-fund liberal...born with a silver spoon up your ass and never worked a day in your life.

 

[Jarlaxle]

I've dealt with all the stated objections. They are all absurd.

I find the corruption the strongest argument . A coyote or "poyero" will charge between 3,000 and 5,000 per person to take each person across the border. Now let's assume they handle groups of 10, and that half of the money is used for bribes. It is all a matter of how many agents they will have to bribe. If it is one agent,then recieving 25,000 just for turning the other way at the right time seems like a sound option. With five agents it would become harder 5,000 is not too compelling when you can loose your job and face jail time. So probably the answer would be to add more deterrents and more guards, which would increase the operating cost of the "fence".

It's really tough to bribe land mines and machine guns on motion detectors, dude.

Ah, yes , another way to cross the border : ultralight aircraft.
Marijuana Smugglers using ultralight aircraft to carry marijuana - Los Angeles Times

Never seen an ultralight that could outrun an attack helicopter.

 

[CultureCitizen]

I've dealt with all the stated objections. They are all absurd.

I find the corruption the strongest argument . A coyote or "poyero" will charge between 3,000 and 5,000 per person to take each person across the border. Now let's assume they handle groups of 10, and that half of the money is used for bribes. It is all a matter of how many agents they will have to bribe. If it is one agent,then recieving 25,000 just for turning the other way at the right time seems like a sound option. With five agents it would become harder 5,000 is not too compelling when you can loose your job and face jail time. So probably the answer would be to add more deterrents and more guards, which would increase the operating cost of the "fence".

It's really tough to bribe land mines and machine guns on motion detectors, dude.

Ah, yes , another way to cross the border : ultralight aircraft.
Marijuana Smugglers using ultralight aircraft to carry marijuana - Los Angeles Times

Never seen an ultralight that could outrun an attack helicopter.

Land mines in US soil !!!!
Dude , you are out of your mind !!
Motion detectors ok, even the fence is ok ( primitive but acceptable), but mines !!! What happens when an unaware citizen happens to get close to the border? No way.

Ultralights can't outrun an attack helicopter, they are just very hard to detect.

 

[Jarlaxle]

You're an imbecile. The entire interstate highway system took less time than that to build. How many miles of interstate highway are there, 30,000 miles?

Not quite 47,000 miles, actually.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Whose rights are violated by a fence?

The property owners...

Ever heard of eminent domain?

Yep, but that goes totally again Private Property Rights eh?

Dude, private property rights in this country ended ten years ago. (June 23, 2005, to be exact.)