Building the Border Fence - A Public/Private Partnership

[Jarlaxle]

I've dealt with all the stated objections. They are all absurd.

I find the corruption the strongest argument . A coyote or "poyero" will charge between 3,000 and 5,000 per person to take each person across the border. Now let's assume they handle groups of 10, and that half of the money is used for bribes. It is all a matter of how many agents they will have to bribe. If it is one agent,then recieving 25,000 just for turning the other way at the right time seems like a sound option. With five agents it would become harder 5,000 is not too compelling when you can loose your job and face jail time. So probably the answer would be to add more deterrents and more guards, which would increase the operating cost of the "fence".

It's really tough to bribe land mines and machine guns on motion detectors, dude.

Ah, yes , another way to cross the border : ultralight aircraft.
Marijuana Smugglers using ultralight aircraft to carry marijuana - Los Angeles Times

Never seen an ultralight that could outrun an attack helicopter.

Land mines in US soil !!!!
Dude , you are out of your mind !!
Motion detectors ok, even the fence is ok ( primitive but acceptable), but mines !!! What happens when an unaware citizen happens to get close to the border? No way.

Ultralights can't outrun an attack helicopter, they are just very hard to detect.

Turn the border into a no-man's land...the area should be clearly marked, difficult to get into (closed off with electrified barbed wire), but anyone going in should end up dead.

 

[OnePercenter]

The problem is: sometimes, you just have no way of knowing someone is an illegal! The employer checks, it comes back clean. I worked with one...he had a valid license, a CDL, no less, and a valid school bus license! About 8 months later, he left...back to Ecuador, just ahead of ICE.

Easy. Passport card and EDL/EID.

 

[OnePercenter]

Are you LYING or just STUPID? You're just another trust-fund liberal...born with a silver spoon up your ass and never worked a day in your life.

Bloviating. You MUST be one of those Canadians.

 

[FA_Q2]

There is the slight issue that we are not Israelis - we are American. .

Hmmmm . . . so? Does that mean we can't learn from them?

I don't really care if they decide to cut down a tree with a herring - it is their nation to do with as they deem necessary and discover what is effective there..

One way we learn is by observing others. Those who cannot learn by observation are doomed to learn the hard way. That's how you want us to learn, by getting slapped upside the head with a 2X4.

The question remains will such work HERE. I think the clear answer is no - technology fills that gap more efficiently and we need something more efficient than a draconian barrier.

A fence is technology, numskull. What "technology" do you imagine would work better than a fence? You actually don't want to control the border. You want to flood this country with illegal aliens because they vote Democrat. You're just another traitorous asshole who doesn't give a fuck about his own culture.

The main reason assholes like you don't like the fence is that once it's built you can't just dispose of it by Executive Order. It remains where it is, and it does it's job. No president could look the other way and allow illegals to destroy it. Drones can disappear with the stroke of the pen. Border guards can disappear with the stroke of the pen, but not the fence. Hence, you hate it. It's the only real obstacle to your scheme to turn this country into Aztlan.

As I ma not a democrat your asinine insults are rather idiotic.

A fence is not 'technology' in any meaningful sense unless you think it is still 10AD. Sensors are tech and they are massively more efficient and FAR cheaper.

Fences are tech if you provide them with tech, like motion sensors to detect people digging a tunnel.

The bottom line is that fences work. They have worked for 10,000 years. You haven't mentioned any "technology" that would work better than a fence. The later has the added bonus that scumbags like Obama can't make it disappear with the stroke of a pen.

I have mentioned it several times. I cant help the fact that you seem to only see what you want to see in any post you read. Motion sensors, infrared detectors and sound detectors to name a few. All of those (hopefully combined) will make a far better security net than a fence and be cheaper.

Those would all be incorporated into the fence, nimrod. So how would leaving the fence out improve anything? Furthermore, a scumbag can make them all disappear with the stroke of a pen if they aren't part of a permanent structure.

Well, nimrod, it costs a lot more without adding anything useful.

And sensory nets are permanent and will not disappear with a pen any more or less than a fence. You are arguing in circles and using personal attacks because you have utterly failed on your 'point.'

 

[bripat9643]

I've dealt with all the stated objections. They are all absurd.

I find the corruption the strongest argument . A coyote or "poyero" will charge between 3,000 and 5,000 per person to take each person across the border. Now let's assume they handle groups of 10, and that half of the money is used for bribes. It is all a matter of how many agents they will have to bribe. If it is one agent,then recieving 25,000 just for turning the other way at the right time seems like a sound option. With five agents it would become harder 5,000 is not too compelling when you can loose your job and face jail time. So probably the answer would be to add more deterrents and more guards, which would increase the operating cost of the "fence".

It's really tough to bribe land mines and machine guns on motion detectors, dude.

Ah, yes , another way to cross the border : ultralight aircraft.
Marijuana Smugglers using ultralight aircraft to carry marijuana - Los Angeles Times

Never seen an ultralight that could outrun an attack helicopter.

Land mines in US soil !!!!
Dude , you are out of your mind !!
Motion detectors ok, even the fence is ok ( primitive but acceptable), but mines !!! What happens when an unaware citizen happens to get close to the border? No way.

Ultralights can't outrun an attack helicopter, they are just very hard to detect.

You really believe some ignorant peasants who probably can't even read are going to build an ultralight?

 

[CultureCitizen]

You really believe some ignorant peasants who probably can't even read are going to build an ultralight?

No , but I think they might buy it. Last time I checked exporting ultrilights to Mexico was perfectly legal.

 

[bripat9643]

Hmmmm . . . so? Does that mean we can't learn from them?
One way we learn is by observing others. Those who cannot learn by observation are doomed to learn the hard way. That's how you want us to learn, by getting slapped upside the head with a 2X4.

A fence is technology, numskull. What "technology" do you imagine would work better than a fence? You actually don't want to control the border. You want to flood this country with illegal aliens because they vote Democrat. You're just another traitorous asshole who doesn't give a fuck about his own culture.

The main reason assholes like you don't like the fence is that once it's built you can't just dispose of it by Executive Order. It remains where it is, and it does it's job. No president could look the other way and allow illegals to destroy it. Drones can disappear with the stroke of the pen. Border guards can disappear with the stroke of the pen, but not the fence. Hence, you hate it. It's the only real obstacle to your scheme to turn this country into Aztlan.

As I ma not a democrat your asinine insults are rather idiotic.

A fence is not 'technology' in any meaningful sense unless you think it is still 10AD. Sensors are tech and they are massively more efficient and FAR cheaper.

Fences are tech if you provide them with tech, like motion sensors to detect people digging a tunnel.

The bottom line is that fences work. They have worked for 10,000 years. You haven't mentioned any "technology" that would work better than a fence. The later has the added bonus that scumbags like Obama can't make it disappear with the stroke of a pen.

I have mentioned it several times. I cant help the fact that you seem to only see what you want to see in any post you read. Motion sensors, infrared detectors and sound detectors to name a few. All of those (hopefully combined) will make a far better security net than a fence and be cheaper.

Those would all be incorporated into the fence, nimrod. So how would leaving the fence out improve anything? Furthermore, a scumbag can make them all disappear with the stroke of a pen if they aren't part of a permanent structure.

Well, nimrod, it costs a lot more without adding anything useful.

And sensory nets are permanent and will not disappear with a pen any more or less than a fence. You are arguing in circles and using personal attacks because you have utterly failed on your 'point.'

It adds plenty useful. That's why you're against it. Fences and walls have been put up whenever such a problem exists. Fences enable a lot fewer men to guard a border. Anyone who says otherwise is simply a lying piece of shit who want illegal aliens to come flooding into this country. Any "sensory net" is a hundred times more effective if it is part of a fence.

I ridicule numskulls like you because facts and logic are a waste of time. You don't care about the facts and logic. You will oppose the fence no matter how irrefutable the facts and logic because you are unalterably opposed to the purpose of the fence which is to keep aliens on the other side of the border.

 

[bripat9643]

You really believe some ignorant peasants who probably can't even read are going to build an ultralight?

No , but I think they might buy it. Last time I checked exporting ultrilights to Mexico was perfectly legal.

So how many peasants are going to buy an ultralight? 3?

 

[bripat9643]

Do you really think a wall will keep out illegals?

It will keep out 95% of them. Walls and fences have worked every time they have been tried.

When you you leftwing turds going to admit that you don't want to seal the border?

Who do you think you're fooling?

ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

Just cause you can't get over a wall does not mean 99.99999999999999999999% of the population can't.

Make it 15' high, top it with 15' of razor wire humming with 50,000 volts and 100 amps, surround it with a 100-yard no-man's land, covered with machine guns on motion detectors and liberally sown with land mines. Patrol it with armed helicopters with "shoot on sight" ROE. Attempting to cross illegally should be nearly impossible and almost-always fatal.

I can't imagine anything more un-American, stupid, and useless, hater dupe. How 'bout a good SS/work ID card that would actually solve the problem? Most illegals come in legally and overstay their visas. Then they can get a fake ID and stay. What you don't understand is that greedy idiot megarich Pubs who run your disgrace of a party LOVE CHEAP LABOR and distract you functional morons whith STUPID HATE.

No, most illegals don't come in legally. They come in over our Southern border. Just about everything opponents of a fence say about illegal immigration is a lie. This isn't a problem created by rich pubs. Democrats, especially Obama, created the problem. Trying to blame it on pubs is a joke.

 

[FA_Q2]

As I ma not a democrat your asinine insults are rather idiotic.

A fence is not 'technology' in any meaningful sense unless you think it is still 10AD. Sensors are tech and they are massively more efficient and FAR cheaper.

Fences are tech if you provide them with tech, like motion sensors to detect people digging a tunnel.

The bottom line is that fences work. They have worked for 10,000 years. You haven't mentioned any "technology" that would work better than a fence. The later has the added bonus that scumbags like Obama can't make it disappear with the stroke of a pen.

I have mentioned it several times. I cant help the fact that you seem to only see what you want to see in any post you read. Motion sensors, infrared detectors and sound detectors to name a few. All of those (hopefully combined) will make a far better security net than a fence and be cheaper.

Those would all be incorporated into the fence, nimrod. So how would leaving the fence out improve anything? Furthermore, a scumbag can make them all disappear with the stroke of a pen if they aren't part of a permanent structure.

Well, nimrod, it costs a lot more without adding anything useful.

And sensory nets are permanent and will not disappear with a pen any more or less than a fence. You are arguing in circles and using personal attacks because you have utterly failed on your 'point.'

It adds plenty useful. That's why you're against it. Fences and walls have been put up whenever such a problem exists. Fences enable a lot fewer men to guard a border. Anyone who says otherwise is simply a lying piece of shit who want illegal aliens to come flooding into this country. Any "sensory net" is a hundred times more effective if it is part of a fence.

I ridicule numskulls like you because facts and logic are a waste of time. You don't care about the facts and logic. You will oppose the fence no matter how irrefutable the facts and logic because you are unalterably opposed to the purpose of the fence which is to keep aliens on the other side of the border.

No, you ridicule everyone because you are the ignorant idiot. Every now and then you manage to get something correct but not that often and even when you do you are so vitriolic there is little point in even engaging with you.

You are like a 13 year old RDean just on the other side.

 

[bripat9643]

[

Narco tunels have been becoming increasingly sofisticated. And although the primary use is drug smuggling I find no reason for which they could not be used to allow persons cross the border.

Underground microphones and ground-penetrating radar. When found...pump them full of nerve gas.

Cement would work just as well.

 

[bripat9643]

Fences are tech if you provide them with tech, like motion sensors to detect people digging a tunnel.

The bottom line is that fences work. They have worked for 10,000 years. You haven't mentioned any "technology" that would work better than a fence. The later has the added bonus that scumbags like Obama can't make it disappear with the stroke of a pen.

I have mentioned it several times. I cant help the fact that you seem to only see what you want to see in any post you read. Motion sensors, infrared detectors and sound detectors to name a few. All of those (hopefully combined) will make a far better security net than a fence and be cheaper.

Those would all be incorporated into the fence, nimrod. So how would leaving the fence out improve anything? Furthermore, a scumbag can make them all disappear with the stroke of a pen if they aren't part of a permanent structure.

Well, nimrod, it costs a lot more without adding anything useful.

And sensory nets are permanent and will not disappear with a pen any more or less than a fence. You are arguing in circles and using personal attacks because you have utterly failed on your 'point.'

It adds plenty useful. That's why you're against it. Fences and walls have been put up whenever such a problem exists. Fences enable a lot fewer men to guard a border. Anyone who says otherwise is simply a lying piece of shit who want illegal aliens to come flooding into this country. Any "sensory net" is a hundred times more effective if it is part of a fence.

I ridicule numskulls like you because facts and logic are a waste of time. You don't care about the facts and logic. You will oppose the fence no matter how irrefutable the facts and logic because you are unalterably opposed to the purpose of the fence which is to keep aliens on the other side of the border.

No, you ridicule everyone because you are the ignorant idiot. Every now and then you manage to get something correct but not that often and even when you do you are so vitriolic there is little point in even engaging with you.

You are like a 13 year old RDean just on the other side.

Look at the pathological liar accusing someone of "not getting anything right."

As I told you, I ridicule turds like you because you are immune to facts and logic. All the opponents of the fence have made that abundantly clear. Your excuse for not building it are transparent and absurd.

 

[CultureCitizen]

You really believe some ignorant peasants who probably can't even read are going to build an ultralight?

No , but I think they might buy it. Last time I checked exporting ultrilights to Mexico was perfectly legal.

So how many peasants are going to buy an ultralight? 3?

The average illegal pays between 3K and 5K to a coyete. Now , build a fence and maybe they'll give the ultralights a try.
IF (and this is a big if ) it works , then the demand for cheap ultralights will rise . I imagine one of the best ways to put an ultralight to good use would be 10 mile dip into the gulf of mexico completely avoiding the wall ( and probably outrunning any boats).

There are plenty of chep ultralight options :
Ultralight Aircraft - Airplanes For Sale New Used Ultralight Aircraft at Barnstormers.com

So yea, it might start with 3.

 

[bripat9643]

You really believe some ignorant peasants who probably can't even read are going to build an ultralight?

No , but I think they might buy it. Last time I checked exporting ultrilights to Mexico was perfectly legal.

So how many peasants are going to buy an ultralight? 3?

The average illegal pays between 3K and 5K to a coyete. Now , build a fence and maybe they'll give the ultralights a try.
IF (and this is a big if ) it works , then the demand for cheap ultralights will rise . I imagine one of the best ways to put an ultralight to good use would be 10 mile dip into the gulf of mexico completely avoiding the wall ( and probably outrunning any boats).

There are plenty of chep ultralight options :
Ultralight Aircraft - Airplanes For Sale New Used Ultralight Aircraft at Barnstormers.com

So yea, it might start with 3.

RIght, I can just see 500,000 ultralights coming over our border every year.

You guys are heading into bizarro land.

Here's some news for you: Most illegals don't pay a coyote. They simply walk over the border.

 

[CultureCitizen]

You really believe some ignorant peasants who probably can't even read are going to build an ultralight?

No , but I think they might buy it. Last time I checked exporting ultrilights to Mexico was perfectly legal.

So how many peasants are going to buy an ultralight? 3?

The average illegal pays between 3K and 5K to a coyete. Now , build a fence and maybe they'll give the ultralights a try.
IF (and this is a big if ) it works , then the demand for cheap ultralights will rise . I imagine one of the best ways to put an ultralight to good use would be 10 mile dip into the gulf of mexico completely avoiding the wall ( and probably outrunning any boats).

There are plenty of chep ultralight options :
Ultralight Aircraft - Airplanes For Sale New Used Ultralight Aircraft at Barnstormers.com

So yea, it might start with 3.

RIght, I can just see 500,000 ultralights coming over our border every year.

You guys are heading into bizarro land.

Here's some news for you: Most illegals don't pay a coyote. They simply walk over the border.

Well, the number is already above 350 detected flights, of course, that is because millions of dollars are at stake.

"In just the six months between October 2009 and mid-April 2010, the Customs and Border Protection (CBP) Air and Marine Operation Center (AMOC) in Riverside, Calif., detected 193 suspected incursions and 135 confirmed incursions by ultralights. According to US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), the number of suspected ultralight incursions across the border more than tripled between fiscal years 2009 and 2010, from 118 to 379. However, only 10 ultralights have been seized and only 27 people arrested in association with this smuggling method."

Homeland Security Today Narco Wars Today Creativity in a Bad Cause

 

[Flopper]

This idea should make liberal heads explode, the main reason being that it would obviously work:

US-Mexico Border Tighter Border Security Requires Mexico s Cooperation

To quickly secure our Southern Border, open the construction of the border fence to public and private sponsorship. Crowd source it.

If individuals, private organizations, and state or local governments with jurisdiction were allowed to finance construction of one mile segments, build out would occur quickly, leaving only a subset for the Federal Government to finance.

What do you think of this as a "power down" solution for a future Republican Administration?​

It may work, but it certainly won't solve the illegal immigration problem because most illegal immigrants in the US entered the country legally. When their visas and work permits expired they just remained here and nothing was done.

 

[CultureCitizen]

It may work, but it certainly won't solve the illegal immigration problem because most illegal immigrants in the US entered the country legally. When their visas and work permits expired they just remain here and nothing was done

I would challenge the adjective "most". The figures I found talked about 30% to 40%, regardless there must be other ways to solve this problem.

 

[Flopper]

It may work, but it certainly won't solve the illegal immigration problem because most illegal immigrants in the US entered the country legally. When their visas and work permits expired they just remain here and nothing was done

I would challenge the adjective "most". The figures I found talked about 30% to 40%, regardless there must be other ways to solve this problem.

Make enforceable laws and enforce them. Have reasonable quotas. Track down visa expiration. Create a more usable verification system for employers and punish those that hire illegals. Provide permanent residence for illegal immigrants that have lived in the country for 10 years or more and are an assets to their community. Grant permanent residency to those brought into the country illegally as children.

 

[bripat9643]

It may work, but it certainly won't solve the illegal immigration problem because most illegal immigrants in the US entered the country legally. When their visas and work permits expired they just remain here and nothing was done

I would challenge the adjective "most". The figures I found talked about 30% to 40%, regardless there must be other ways to solve this problem.

Why do we need other ways when we have one that works?

 

[bripat9643]

It may work, but it certainly won't solve the illegal immigration problem because most illegal immigrants in the US entered the country legally. When their visas and work permits expired they just remain here and nothing was done

I would challenge the adjective "most". The figures I found talked about 30% to 40%, regardless there must be other ways to solve this problem.

Make enforceable laws and enforce them. Have reasonable quotas. Track down visa expiration. Create a more usable verification system for employers and punish those that hire illegals. Provide permanent residence for illegal immigrants that have lived in the country for 10 years or more and are an assets to their community. Grant permanent residency to those brought into the country illegally as children.

All the laws in the world won't make a difference if elected officials refuse to enforce them. That's the only problem we have here: Obama and his ilk refuse to enforce the laws on the books.