Bring your video camera to your town hall

[Chris]

Shouting down people in a town hall meeting is bullshit no matter who does it.

Whether it is unwashed hippies on the left or Glenn Beck groupies on the right.

 

[Dr.House]

Post saved..

Not very long until the 2010 election season begins...

I'd love to see any economic predictions that unemployment, a lagging economic indicator, will be dropping by several percentage points between now and next year's election...

I mean other than those from Liberalism'sVoice...

Don't expect any economic predicitons from me, either, Greg. I'm not in the business of foretelling economic fluctuations (and you should stick to medicine).

You already did in post #309... Even announced that we heard it here first...


...but it doesn't take a rocket economist to know that the unemployment rate won't drop "several percentage points" in less than a year...

 

[Centrism'sVoice]

You already did in post #309... Even announced that we heard it here first...

I predicted the election, not the economy. And even that depends on at least two variables I didn't try to predict. Sorry, no dice.

 

[Dr.House]

You already did in post #309... Even announced that we heard it here first...

I predicted the election, not the economy. And even that depends on at least two variables I didn't try to predict. Sorry, no dice.

Come on dude - that's like predicting the sky will be dark at night...

Of course Barry's Posse will be trounced if unemployment is high and people are unhappy with a universal healthcare bill...

You're not the first to predict THAT...

 

[Centrism'sVoice]

You already did in post #309... Even announced that we heard it here first...

I predicted the election, not the economy. And even that depends on at least two variables I didn't try to predict. Sorry, no dice.

Come on dude - that's like predicting the sky will be dark at night...

Of course Barry's Posse will be trounced if unemployment is high and people are unhappy with a universal healthcare bill...

You're not the first to predict THAT...

I just guessed at being the first on this forum to predict it. Feel free to show me a link if I'm wrong.

 

[Dr.House]

I predicted the election, not the economy. And even that depends on at least two variables I didn't try to predict. Sorry, no dice.

Come on dude - that's like predicting the sky will be dark at night...

Of course Barry's Posse will be trounced if unemployment is high and people are unhappy with a universal healthcare bill...

You're not the first to predict THAT...

I just guessed at being the first on this forum to predict it.

I see... You didn't qualify it earlier, limiting your plain-as-day prediction to just this forum...

Congrats, Captain Obvious...

 

[Centrism'sVoice]

I see... You didn't qualify it earlier, limiting your plain-as-day prediction to just this forum...

Congrats, Captain Obvious...

Who, you may remember, was tremendously influential during the Bush II administration...

 

[JakeStarkey]

For a few moments after a fight (or a beating) the adrenaline is still hyping a person up, so to say he likely wasn't hurt as much as he complains now does him a disservice; he was simply living up to his ideals, probably knowing it is risky - vis-a-vis a Clarence Thomas. He didn't think coming out and supporting his ideals would get him into a brawl with leftist thugs, even questioning his blackness (what kind of a N. are you?) but unfortunately our president is saying "push back twice as much" and to some of these thugs who see any rebuttal as impermissable, in their world, they think this is how the opposition is (man) handled.

I don't buy it - adrenaline or no adrenaline (unless you are pumped up on meth) you don't go from bouncing up and walking away from a fight to heavily bandaged and in a wheelchair the next day.

Leftist thugs? Howabout Rightwing thugs? What the hell do these people expect when they deliberately set out to be confrontational and disruptive? There are other people on the opposing sides who are going to take it in the same spirit but you only call one partisan team "thugs".

Perhaps they need to read up on what peaceful protesting really means?

Thug: a hood: an aggressive and violent young criminal

The definition of a thug is one who uses physical force on another person. Raising an uproar over a political issue in a public venue is not thuggery. When ordinary folks get upset this is how they behave. I've seen it before; largely it's because they are not organized, rather than that they are organized. The average American is far less articulate about issues they feel strongly, even frustrated about than those who are organized tend to be.

Living in a university town that has seen more than it's share or protests from the 60's on, and remonstrances, it's easy to identify the organized protestors: They divide up the subject matter between a long range of speakers so that every point is hammered home, many times causing the real business of the body to have to be postponed and to have to come back again without getting any of their planned business done in its original session. They dominate the rostrom for as long as possible, and seem reasonable and concerned. Those who are not organized, being less articulate, but frustrated do a lot of yelling off the cuff hoping to find the catch words that make their intent clear. Don't confuse the two. This may be hard for people who spend their time spinning words on a forum like this one to understand, but it's a fact of life and it's human nature.

Simple horse crap. Screaming and yelling to disrupt the poltical process, which in a democracy is best served by rational discourse, is thuggery, is a crime, and these political shariasts of our extreme right wing are going to get led out hooded and shackled by the police.

GOP shariasts, beware or behave.

 

[Harry Dresden]

The Dems do NOT need the republicans to vote this health care bill thru, period. So, vote it thru, what's the problem? It's only a 'minority' that is against it, right? They have nothing to fear, vote it through. Your excuses are done, the 'party of no' is meaningless, quit the crying and vote it through.

This thread isn't about the vote, it's about the so-called protests at Town Hall meetings.

Try to keep up.

its how this conversation is moving along dipshit....maybe you should keep up...

 

[Harry Dresden]

Shouting down people in a town hall meeting is bullshit no matter who does it.

Whether it is unwashed hippies on the left or Glenn Beck groupies on the right.

even you Chris?....

 

[Coyote]

For a few moments after a fight (or a beating) the adrenaline is still hyping a person up, so to say he likely wasn't hurt as much as he complains now does him a disservice; he was simply living up to his ideals, probably knowing it is risky - vis-a-vis a Clarence Thomas. He didn't think coming out and supporting his ideals would get him into a brawl with leftist thugs, even questioning his blackness (what kind of a N. are you?) but unfortunately our president is saying "push back twice as much" and to some of these thugs who see any rebuttal as impermissable, in their world, they think this is how the opposition is (man) handled.

I don't buy it - adrenaline or no adrenaline (unless you are pumped up on meth) you don't go from bouncing up and walking away from a fight to heavily bandaged and in a wheelchair the next day.

Leftist thugs? Howabout Rightwing thugs? What the hell do these people expect when they deliberately set out to be confrontational and disruptive? There are other people on the opposing sides who are going to take it in the same spirit but you only call one partisan team "thugs".

Perhaps they need to read up on what peaceful protesting really means?

Thug: a hood: an aggressive and violent young criminal

The definition of a thug is one who uses physical force on another person. Raising an uproar over a political issue in a public venue is not thuggery. When ordinary folks get upset this is how they behave. I've seen it before; largely it's because they are not organized, rather than that they are organized. The average American is far less articulate about issues they feel strongly, even frustrated about than those who are organized tend to be.

Actually....if you want to be exact, thugs are a particular type of highway robber who committed ritual murder via strangulation in honour of the goddess Kali (she being a blood loving sort of patron)...but even going by your definition, you can't really call them "leftist thugs either". It's a lot of folks getting upset.

However, I totally disagree that they are not organized. They are organized enough to maintain website connections and strategize on a national level even attending townhalls in areas where it is not their representative or a jurisdiction that they are a member of - they are organized enough to use the same tactics of disruption with the same aim: silence any opposition by shouting them down. They are no more or less "average Americans" than Code Pink and they are using tactics to express themselves that are very confrontational. I think the whole "we are not organized" schtick is a masquarade to make folks think it's a genuine grassroots movement rather than a well orchestrated and well funded special interest movement intended to silence attempts to explain the health bill in a way that opposes their aim or answer questions from anyone but their own.

Living in a university town that has seen more than it's share or protests from the 60's on, and remonstrances, it's easy to identify the organized protestors: They divide up the subject matter between a long range of speakers so that every point is hammered home, many times causing the real business of the body to have to be postponed and to have to come back again without getting any of their planned business done in its original session. They dominate the rostrom for as long as possible, and seem reasonable and concerned. Those who are not organized, being less articulate, but frustrated do a lot of yelling off the cuff hoping to find the catch words that make their intent clear. Don't confuse the two. This may be hard for people who spend their time spinning words on a forum like this one to understand, but it's a fact of life and it's human nature.

I don't think these people are as "unorganized" as they would appear - the messages and strategies are too consistent.

There's an interesting interview here: NPR Media Player

 

[DiveCon]

I don't buy it - adrenaline or no adrenaline (unless you are pumped up on meth) you don't go from bouncing up and walking away from a fight to heavily bandaged and in a wheelchair the next day.

Leftist thugs? Howabout Rightwing thugs? What the hell do these people expect when they deliberately set out to be confrontational and disruptive? There are other people on the opposing sides who are going to take it in the same spirit but you only call one partisan team "thugs".

Perhaps they need to read up on what peaceful protesting really means?

Thug: a hood: an aggressive and violent young criminal

The definition of a thug is one who uses physical force on another person. Raising an uproar over a political issue in a public venue is not thuggery. When ordinary folks get upset this is how they behave. I've seen it before; largely it's because they are not organized, rather than that they are organized. The average American is far less articulate about issues they feel strongly, even frustrated about than those who are organized tend to be.

Actually....if you want to be exact, thugs are a particular type of highway robber who committed ritual murder via strangulation in honour of the goddess Kali (she being a blood loving sort of patron)...but even going by your definition, you can't really call them "leftist thugs either". It's a lot of folks getting upset.

However, I totally disagree that they are not organized. They are organized enough to maintain website connections and strategize on a national level even attending townhalls in areas where it is not their representative or a jurisdiction that they are a member of - they are organized enough to use the same tactics of disruption with the same aim: silence any opposition by shouting them down. They are no more or less "average Americans" than Code Pink and they are using tactics to express themselves that are very confrontational. I think the whole "we are not organized" schtick is a masquarade to make folks think it's a genuine grassroots movement rather than a well orchestrated and well funded special interest movement intended to silence attempts to explain the health bill in a way that opposes their aim or answer questions from anyone but their own.

Living in a university town that has seen more than it's share or protests from the 60's on, and remonstrances, it's easy to identify the organized protestors: They divide up the subject matter between a long range of speakers so that every point is hammered home, many times causing the real business of the body to have to be postponed and to have to come back again without getting any of their planned business done in its original session. They dominate the rostrom for as long as possible, and seem reasonable and concerned. Those who are not organized, being less articulate, but frustrated do a lot of yelling off the cuff hoping to find the catch words that make their intent clear. Don't confuse the two. This may be hard for people who spend their time spinning words on a forum like this one to understand, but it's a fact of life and it's human nature.

I don't think these people are as "unorganized" as they would appear - the messages and strategies are too consistent.

There's an interesting interview here: NPR Media Player

keep believing that

 

[Navy1960]

THOSE IN FAVOR OF HEALTHCARE BILL!

THOSE OPPOSED TO THE BILL!!

It appears at least on the surface that from those signs and from a whole host of other images and video's, shirts that say SEUI in purple, ACRON in red, and nicely printed signs and they call those opposed to this an organized effort, I see so what do you call those for it then? "grassroots"

 

[American Horse]

I don't think these people are as "unorganized" as they would appear - the messages and strategies are too consistent.

There's an interesting interview here: NPR Media Player

From that NPR interview there is nothing to suggest that people are being directed from any organized group to do any of this; there is evidence that people are availing themselves of modern methods of communicating systematically. Would those who oppose a public's appearing to attempt to persuade or to discover the intent of a congress person's likely vote or to change it do it using smoke signals, or rely on random chance so as to handicap themselves?

I notice Maryland US Senator Ben Cardin went ahead and met with opponents of the "bill", and said he thought it was useful, and will go ahead with a town-hall meeting in Hagerstown. Only a position like his will defuse the situation. Calling out the dogs to harass these people will only increase their numbers and lead to violence by purple shirted modern-variety "thugs"

Peggy Noonan in her article "You Are Terrifying Us" in part said "[t]he leftosphere and the liberal commentariat charged that the town hall meetings weren’t authentic, the crowds were ginned up by insurance companies, lobbyists and the Republican National Committee. But you can’t get people to leave their homes and go to a meeting with a congressman (of all people) unless they are engaged to the point of passion. And what tends to agitate people most is the idea of loss—loss of money hard earned, loss of autonomy, loss of the few things that work in a great sweeping away of those that don’t.

People are not automatons. They show up only if they care.

What the town-hall meetings represent is a feeling of rebellion, an uprising against change they do not believe in. And the Democratic response has been stunningly crude and aggressive. It has been to attack. Nancy Pelosi, the speaker of the United States House of Representatives, accused the people at the meetings of “carrying swastikas and symbols like that.” (Apparently one protester held a hand-lettered sign with a “no” slash over a swastika.) But they are not Nazis, they’re Americans. Some of them looked like they’d actually spent some time fighting Nazis. ....You cannot allow your allies to call people protesting a health-care plan “extremists” and “right wing,” or bought, or Nazi-like, either. They’re citizens. They’re concerned. They deserve respect.

The Democrats should not be attacking, they should be attempting to persuade, to argue for their case. After all, they have the big mic. Which is what the presidency is, the big mic.

And frankly they ought to think about backing off. The president should call in his troops and his Congress and announce a rethinking. There are too many different bills, they’re all a thousand pages long, no one has time to read them, no one knows what’s going to be in the final one, the public is agitated, the nation’s in crisis, the timing is wrong, we’ll turn to it again—but not now. We’ll take a little longer, ponder every aspect, and make clear every complication.

You know what would happen if he did this? His numbers would go up. Even Congress’s would. Because they’d look responsive, deliberative and even wise. Discretion is the better part of valor."

That's sound advice; let's see if it's taken.

 

[DiveCon]

THOSE IN FAVOR OF HEALTHCARE BILL!

THOSE OPPOSED TO THE BILL!!

It appears at least on the surface that from those signs and from a whole host of other images and video's, shirts that say SEUI in purple, ACRON in red, and nicely printed signs and they call those opposed to this an organized effort, I see so what do you call those for it then? "grassroots"

of course, the Pro group IS organized much better than the Anti group
because the anti group ISNT organized at all

 

[Intense]

THOSE IN FAVOR OF HEALTHCARE BILL!

THOSE OPPOSED TO THE BILL!!

It appears at least on the surface that from those signs and from a whole host of other images and video's, shirts that say SEUI in purple, ACRON in red, and nicely printed signs and they call those opposed to this an organized effort, I see so what do you call those for it then? "grassroots"

Good insight. Gee I wonder how many in the top poster are gonna have to leave for 20 minutes so that they can go punch out.

 

[Centrism'sVoice]

THOSE IN FAVOR OF HEALTHCARE BILL!

THOSE OPPOSED TO THE BILL!!

It appears at least on the surface that from those signs and from a whole host of other images and video's, shirts that say SEUI in purple, ACRON in red, and nicely printed signs and they call those opposed to this an organized effort, I see so what do you call those for it then? "grassroots"

That looks like a comparison between San Francisco and East Backwaterville, Kentucky. Which is about as sensible a comparison as apples and oranges.

 

[Navy1960]

So what are you saying here Centerist , that people in Ky. are somehow less entitled to an opinion than those in SF? Seem your Centerist views are a little less than Center is your making such a statement.

 

[Centrism'sVoice]

So what are you saying here Centerist , that people in Ky. are somehow less entitled to an opinion than those in SF? Seem your Centerist views are a little less than Center is your making such a statement.

Nope: missed the point. The point was that demonstrations in large cities - any large cities - are going to look more "polished," if you will, just because they have easy access to people who can print up lots of slick signs and buttons.

You could just as easily have posted a photo of such an anti-healtcare demonstration in Louisville, and contrasted it with a small, motley group of supporters in some coastal town in Oregon.

 

[Navy1960]

Portland, Ore.

Denver,Co.

That help make it better for you? or does the fact that I compared one group of Americans from one town to another because your assertion is that people in larger towns tend to be more sophisticated.