BREAKING: Terrorist attack in Paris ?

[Coyote]

I'll bet you'd feel a lot differently if your loved one was a victim.

If my loved one was a victim, I would hope that I would have the courage not to tar an entire group with the actions of it's extremists.

Well, the problem is, we don't know who is who. Why put Americans in danger needlessly? We are our government's first and foremost responsibility. THOSE people who like to migrate here are not citizens.

We can do a pretty decent job of vetting them. We brought in Vietnamese refugees after the war after all.

Which is why there have been so many attacks from within.........

great job vetting,

NOT

Not good enough, that's for sure. There is no really logical reason why we should feel pressured to accept anyone who doesn't come here on a work visa. People seem to think are resources and money are infinite.

I don't think we're a zero-sum nation. People who come here as refugees or immigrants want to work and typically do very well.

 

[aris2chat]

Muslim Terrorists Caught Crossing US Border

we have to protect all our borders. We have to be careful of who comes in.

2!st C, this not the early with C. and more

we can't afford your poor and hungry any more

we don't want your terrorist and criminal

 

[ChrisL]

If my loved one was a victim, I would hope that I would have the courage not to tar an entire group with the actions of it's extremists.

Well, the problem is, we don't know who is who. Why put Americans in danger needlessly? We are our government's first and foremost responsibility. THOSE people who like to migrate here are not citizens.

We can do a pretty decent job of vetting them. We brought in Vietnamese refugees after the war after all.

Which is why there have been so many attacks from within.........

great job vetting,

NOT

Not good enough, that's for sure. There is no really logical reason why we should feel pressured to accept anyone who doesn't come here on a work visa. People seem to think are resources and money are infinite.

I don't think we're a zero-sum nation. People who come here as refugees or immigrants want to work and typically do very well.

Not someone who comes here with no skills, and there really aren't all that many good jobs (or good paying ones) to go around. How else would you explain the amount of people collecting welfare?

 

[ChrisL]

If we don't have enough jobs or resources for our OWN people, why take on more? Sorry, I don't feel obligated to drain ourselves.

 

[westwall]

Clearly the "safe place" joke is about you leftists, and it went right over your head.

Wise up.

The degree of glee over the deaths of over 150 French is despicable

Hey, cool....lets mock the liberals

There has been no glee save by a few of your progressive buddies. The rest of the posts here have been very concerned about the victims of this horrible crime. Take your mock outrage and piss off.

you cannot be serious, you fucking asshole. very special selective perception.

Clearly the "safe place" joke is about you leftists, and it went right over your head.

Wise up.

The degree of glee over the deaths of over 150 French is despicable

Hey, cool....lets mock the liberals

There has been no glee save by a few of your progressive buddies. The rest of the posts here have been very concerned about the victims of this horrible crime. Take your mock outrage and piss off.

you cannot be serious, you fucking asshole. very special selective perception.

I am very serious and the only asshole in this discussion is the one winking back at you in the mirror.

you are beyond help if you seriously think that there is only one asshole on these threads.

those assholes aren't not assholes only because you asshole agree with them.

No, you need to educate yourself, you called me an asshole. I said the only asshole in the discussion between you and I was YOU. I know far more about the subject than you ever will and my response to RW was absolutely correct, the only people who were posting with glee were well known progressives. I deleted dozens of off topic trolls from your progressive pals yesterday so you have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

 

[aris2chat]

the attacks in paris is so far beyond some regional dispute way over there.

Sitting down with tribal chiefs is not going to stop europe being attacked from within or without.

putting a bandaid on a little toe is not going to save the patient

No, it's not - but outside powers can not fix the problem without a leading role from the ME states because their religious and ethnic conflicts, and political maneuverings are part of the problem. If they can't come together on a strategy what can we effectively do that won't keep it from regrowing again and again?

Don't you fucking get it yet? They are NEVER going to agree. They have been fighting forever. Now, they have just carried that over to us and other western countries.

So what is your solution then?

Stop allowing immigrants and attack the source of the terrorist funding, especially ISIS.

We made a mess of Iraq, we owe it to help refugees since we played a part in creating the situation. We are already attacking the source of their funding.

Iraqis made a mess in Iraq and we were part of a larger groups trying help them establish a government without Saddam and claims back their country.

 

[westwall]

I'll bet you'd feel a lot differently if your loved one was a victim.

If my loved one was a victim, I would hope that I would have the courage not to tar an entire group with the actions of it's extremists.

Well, the problem is, we don't know who is who. Why put Americans in danger needlessly? We are our government's first and foremost responsibility. THOSE people who like to migrate here are not citizens.

We can do a pretty decent job of vetting them. We brought in Vietnamese refugees after the war after all.

Which is why there have been so many attacks from within.........

great job vetting,

NOT

How many attacks from within?

The vetting process being used is very poor. After the expense of how many tens of millions of dollars the Obama admin had managed to vett 50 Syrians and within days they were all gone. There are reports of trainees attacking the trainers all of the time. Just last week there was another one of those attacks. Iraq was a disaster because the politicians can't think beyond their noses and want a "fast" solution. There's no such thing. Islamic terrorists are stuck back in the 600's developmentally wise and until there is a Reformation of Islam there will ALWAYS be a violent core that demands a war waged on the infidel.

Any true solution will take one of two approaches, a quick one where hundreds of millions of innocent moderate Muslims are killed to get the bad ones....and there will still be bad ones... Or a generational attack that separates the good from the bad and slowly breeds the bad ones out of existence. The problem with the second approach is it requires serious backing and politicians who have IQ's greater than room temperature.

 

[aris2chat]

Jews were look for a safe place to Iive in peace and security where they could practice their faith.

Jews did not come as terrorist but builders and investors. They came to improve and modernize, to share their knowledge and skills. They were greeter by some with abuse and death.

Some even suspected them as german infiltrators and not as refugees.

Now muslim are seem as infiltrators because a large percentage of the refugees are infiltrators and not refugees. They need to be vetted and those willing to work and improve the countries can be given entry, but those who want to bleed the countries and cause harm should not be given open access.

It is not about being mean but being smart and careful.

THE ZIONUTS CAME TO PALESTINE IN 1925 DETERMINED TO MURDER AND DISAPPEAR THE PALESTINIANS BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY. THEIR SCAM INCLUDED THE CLAIM THAT THERE WAS NO COUNTRY KNOWN AS PALESTINE.

MENACHEM BEGIN AND THE IRGUN ZIONUT GANG TERRORIZED THEM UNTIL 1949.

BUT THE WORLD COMMUNITY LOOKED THE OTHER WAY.


.

Jews were invited by ottomans and arabs attacked first after lies that jews were destroying the al aqsa mosque.

Jews came to build a country and arabs wanted to kill them for buying land, investing or create jobs.

I think we are talking about two different things. You're referring to Jewish immigration to Palestine and building the nation of Israel. I was talking about Jewish refugees fleeing WW2 and, prior to that the huge influx of eastern European and Russian Jews and the reluctance of the US to take them in. The same sort of reluctance Muslims are meeting with, and prior to that Chinese and Japanese. In the case of the Jews they were linked with the anarchist movements a very real terrorist threat at the time and provoked the same outrage, xenophobia and hate.

In the end, we forget the anarchists, bombers and 'lone wolves'. But the hysteria they provoke stays with us | Jeff Sparrow
Anarchism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://www.economist.com/node/4293225

The stage is the same, the script is the same, the players change.

Germany started WWI and unfortunately germans has infiltrated the US. A ship of germans, even though jews, was a danger.

US was not at that time prepared to take in the refugees, or deal with more anti-semitism because of their presence. War was the priority facing the US.

In hind sight it was wrong to turn them away, but at the time it made sense to the US. It was a time of running rounding up germans and interning them, also japanese.

It was a policy created out of fear and it was horrible - the internment of the Japanese. I don't think they found any or very little evidence of Japanese spies amongst Japanese Americans. Certainly not enough to support the actions. We should never complacently condone it or it will happen again and again. Same with taking in refugees. We can't take them all, but we can certainly take more.

Putting the lack of hospitality to the ship of German jews in context.

 

[aris2chat]

If my loved one was a victim, I would hope that I would have the courage not to tar an entire group with the actions of it's extremists.

Well, the problem is, we don't know who is who. Why put Americans in danger needlessly? We are our government's first and foremost responsibility. THOSE people who like to migrate here are not citizens.

We can do a pretty decent job of vetting them. We brought in Vietnamese refugees after the war after all.

Which is why there have been so many attacks from within.........

great job vetting,

NOT

Not good enough, that's for sure. There is no really logical reason why we should feel pressured to accept anyone who doesn't come here on a work visa. People seem to think are resources and money are infinite.

I don't think we're a zero-sum nation. People who come here as refugees or immigrants want to work and typically do very well.

and far too many are draining our welfare system dry or involved in crime

 

[ChrisL]

THE ZIONUTS CAME TO PALESTINE IN 1925 DETERMINED TO MURDER AND DISAPPEAR THE PALESTINIANS BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY. THEIR SCAM INCLUDED THE CLAIM THAT THERE WAS NO COUNTRY KNOWN AS PALESTINE.

MENACHEM BEGIN AND THE IRGUN ZIONUT GANG TERRORIZED THEM UNTIL 1949.

BUT THE WORLD COMMUNITY LOOKED THE OTHER WAY.


.

Jews were invited by ottomans and arabs attacked first after lies that jews were destroying the al aqsa mosque.

Jews came to build a country and arabs wanted to kill them for buying land, investing or create jobs.

I think we are talking about two different things. You're referring to Jewish immigration to Palestine and building the nation of Israel. I was talking about Jewish refugees fleeing WW2 and, prior to that the huge influx of eastern European and Russian Jews and the reluctance of the US to take them in. The same sort of reluctance Muslims are meeting with, and prior to that Chinese and Japanese. In the case of the Jews they were linked with the anarchist movements a very real terrorist threat at the time and provoked the same outrage, xenophobia and hate.

In the end, we forget the anarchists, bombers and 'lone wolves'. But the hysteria they provoke stays with us | Jeff Sparrow
Anarchism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://www.economist.com/node/4293225

The stage is the same, the script is the same, the players change.

Germany started WWI and unfortunately germans has infiltrated the US. A ship of germans, even though jews, was a danger.

US was not at that time prepared to take in the refugees, or deal with more anti-semitism because of their presence. War was the priority facing the US.

In hind sight it was wrong to turn them away, but at the time it made sense to the US. It was a time of running rounding up germans and interning them, also japanese.

It was a policy created out of fear and it was horrible - the internment of the Japanese. I don't think they found any or very little evidence of Japanese spies amongst Japanese Americans. Certainly not enough to support the actions. We should never complacently condone it or it will happen again and again. Same with taking in refugees. We can't take them all, but we can certainly take more.

Putting the lack of hospitality to the ship of German jews in context.

I don't know where she gets that crazy idea. I haven't seen anyone suggest such a thing. I certainly said nothing about imprisoning innocent people or genocide.

 

[Coyote]

Well, the problem is, we don't know who is who. Why put Americans in danger needlessly? We are our government's first and foremost responsibility. THOSE people who like to migrate here are not citizens.

We can do a pretty decent job of vetting them. We brought in Vietnamese refugees after the war after all.

Which is why there have been so many attacks from within.........

great job vetting,

NOT

Not good enough, that's for sure. There is no really logical reason why we should feel pressured to accept anyone who doesn't come here on a work visa. People seem to think are resources and money are infinite.

I don't think we're a zero-sum nation. People who come here as refugees or immigrants want to work and typically do very well.

and far too many are draining our welfare system dry or involved in crime

How many? How much is real and how much is anti-immigrant propoganda? We're not like Europe - we don't have the hugely lucrative welfare system that they do that might attract immigrants. People that come here often come here to work and make a better life for themselves.

 

[ChrisL]

We can do a pretty decent job of vetting them. We brought in Vietnamese refugees after the war after all.

Which is why there have been so many attacks from within.........

great job vetting,

NOT

Not good enough, that's for sure. There is no really logical reason why we should feel pressured to accept anyone who doesn't come here on a work visa. People seem to think are resources and money are infinite.

I don't think we're a zero-sum nation. People who come here as refugees or immigrants want to work and typically do very well.

and far too many are draining our welfare system dry or involved in crime

How many? How much is real and how much is anti-immigrant propoganda? We're not like Europe - we don't have the hugely lucrative welfare system that they do that might attract immigrants. People that come here often come here to work and make a better life for themselves.

Then they can come on a work visa.

 

[Coyote]

No, it's not - but outside powers can not fix the problem without a leading role from the ME states because their religious and ethnic conflicts, and political maneuverings are part of the problem. If they can't come together on a strategy what can we effectively do that won't keep it from regrowing again and again?

Don't you fucking get it yet? They are NEVER going to agree. They have been fighting forever. Now, they have just carried that over to us and other western countries.

So what is your solution then?

Stop allowing immigrants and attack the source of the terrorist funding, especially ISIS.

We made a mess of Iraq, we owe it to help refugees since we played a part in creating the situation. We are already attacking the source of their funding.

Iraqis made a mess in Iraq and we were part of a larger groups trying help them establish a government without Saddam and claims back their country.

The US made a mess by naively thinking they could topple a dictator that held a very ethnically divided country together and instantly create a democratic state without the least understanding of the cultures and history of that state. That was what led to the mess Iraq is in now. You can not impose democracy from the outside and democracy won't work without some basic institutions already in place - an independent judiciary, a system for handling corruption and a culture that will support that, protection for minorities, etc. You can blame the Iraqi's but that is overlooking are role in setting the stage.

 

[ChrisL]

Don't you fucking get it yet? They are NEVER going to agree. They have been fighting forever. Now, they have just carried that over to us and other western countries.

So what is your solution then?

Stop allowing immigrants and attack the source of the terrorist funding, especially ISIS.

We made a mess of Iraq, we owe it to help refugees since we played a part in creating the situation. We are already attacking the source of their funding.

Iraqis made a mess in Iraq and we were part of a larger groups trying help them establish a government without Saddam and claims back their country.

The US made a mess by naively thinking they could topple a dictator that held a very ethnically divided country together and instantly create a democratic state without the least understanding of the cultures and history of that state. That was what led to the mess Iraq is in now. You can not impose democracy from the outside and democracy won't work without some basic institutions already in place - an independent judiciary, a system for handling corruption and a culture that will support that, protection for minorities, etc. You can blame the Iraqi's but that is overlooking are role in setting the stage.

I think it was more because, as usual, they could not agree on ANYTHING and could not control themselves and stop with their constant fighting.

 

[Coyote]

Which is why there have been so many attacks from within.........

great job vetting,

NOT

Not good enough, that's for sure. There is no really logical reason why we should feel pressured to accept anyone who doesn't come here on a work visa. People seem to think are resources and money are infinite.

I don't think we're a zero-sum nation. People who come here as refugees or immigrants want to work and typically do very well.

and far too many are draining our welfare system dry or involved in crime

How many? How much is real and how much is anti-immigrant propoganda? We're not like Europe - we don't have the hugely lucrative welfare system that they do that might attract immigrants. People that come here often come here to work and make a better life for themselves.

Then they can come on a work visa.

Maybe.

There are downsides though to work visas and you can see that in Europe. You get a large number of immigrants who come just to work. They don't assimilate, they have no vested interest in their host country, the country doesn't really want them so they are marginalized and often, they are seperated from their families.

 

[Coyote]

Jews were invited by ottomans and arabs attacked first after lies that jews were destroying the al aqsa mosque.

Jews came to build a country and arabs wanted to kill them for buying land, investing or create jobs.

I think we are talking about two different things. You're referring to Jewish immigration to Palestine and building the nation of Israel. I was talking about Jewish refugees fleeing WW2 and, prior to that the huge influx of eastern European and Russian Jews and the reluctance of the US to take them in. The same sort of reluctance Muslims are meeting with, and prior to that Chinese and Japanese. In the case of the Jews they were linked with the anarchist movements a very real terrorist threat at the time and provoked the same outrage, xenophobia and hate.

In the end, we forget the anarchists, bombers and 'lone wolves'. But the hysteria they provoke stays with us | Jeff Sparrow
Anarchism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://www.economist.com/node/4293225

The stage is the same, the script is the same, the players change.

Germany started WWI and unfortunately germans has infiltrated the US. A ship of germans, even though jews, was a danger.

US was not at that time prepared to take in the refugees, or deal with more anti-semitism because of their presence. War was the priority facing the US.

In hind sight it was wrong to turn them away, but at the time it made sense to the US. It was a time of running rounding up germans and interning them, also japanese.

It was a policy created out of fear and it was horrible - the internment of the Japanese. I don't think they found any or very little evidence of Japanese spies amongst Japanese Americans. Certainly not enough to support the actions. We should never complacently condone it or it will happen again and again. Same with taking in refugees. We can't take them all, but we can certainly take more.

Putting the lack of hospitality to the ship of German jews in context.

I don't know where she gets that crazy idea. I haven't seen anyone suggest such a thing. I certainly said nothing about imprisoning innocent people or genocide.

What does that have to do with the conversation in this post??

 

[aris2chat]

We can do a pretty decent job of vetting them. We brought in Vietnamese refugees after the war after all.

Which is why there have been so many attacks from within.........

great job vetting,

NOT

Not good enough, that's for sure. There is no really logical reason why we should feel pressured to accept anyone who doesn't come here on a work visa. People seem to think are resources and money are infinite.

I don't think we're a zero-sum nation. People who come here as refugees or immigrants want to work and typically do very well.

and far too many are draining our welfare system dry or involved in crime

How many? How much is real and how much is anti-immigrant propoganda? We're not like Europe - we don't have the hugely lucrative welfare system that they do that might attract immigrants. People that come here often come here to work and make a better life for themselves.

Hundreds of thousands if not millions are actively at war with us.

We cannot just invite them in for tea and crumpets then let them stay

 

[ChrisL]

Not good enough, that's for sure. There is no really logical reason why we should feel pressured to accept anyone who doesn't come here on a work visa. People seem to think are resources and money are infinite.

I don't think we're a zero-sum nation. People who come here as refugees or immigrants want to work and typically do very well.

and far too many are draining our welfare system dry or involved in crime

How many? How much is real and how much is anti-immigrant propoganda? We're not like Europe - we don't have the hugely lucrative welfare system that they do that might attract immigrants. People that come here often come here to work and make a better life for themselves.

Then they can come on a work visa.

Maybe.

There are downsides though to work visas and you can see that in Europe. You get a large number of immigrants who come just to work. They don't assimilate, they have no vested interest in their host country, the country doesn't really want them so they are marginalized and often, they are seperated from their families.

So there is really no benefit to America or Americans. Once upon a time it was feasible for our country to take in a lot of immigrants. Those times are LONG gone. We have over 320 million people in this country now! Simply because some of you feel some sense of obligation to immigrants is not a reason for our government to agree to potentially put us in danger when accepting immigrants who are seeking asylum, a good portion of which are young men from Islamic countries.

 

[Ringel05]

When you equate all Muslims to ISIS, ISIS wins.

Good luck. Trying to infuse rational, honest fact into an exchange (I won't call it a discussion) such as this, is like trying to stop a volcano from erupting.
I do understand that most of it (postings) are pretty much an emotional release so in reality better here than on the streets where innocents would most likely suffer.

 

[Coyote]

So what is your solution then?

Stop allowing immigrants and attack the source of the terrorist funding, especially ISIS.

We made a mess of Iraq, we owe it to help refugees since we played a part in creating the situation. We are already attacking the source of their funding.

Iraqis made a mess in Iraq and we were part of a larger groups trying help them establish a government without Saddam and claims back their country.

The US made a mess by naively thinking they could topple a dictator that held a very ethnically divided country together and instantly create a democratic state without the least understanding of the cultures and history of that state. That was what led to the mess Iraq is in now. You can not impose democracy from the outside and democracy won't work without some basic institutions already in place - an independent judiciary, a system for handling corruption and a culture that will support that, protection for minorities, etc. You can blame the Iraqi's but that is overlooking are role in setting the stage.

I think it was more because, as usual, they could not agree on ANYTHING and could not control themselves and stop with their constant fighting.

Iraq was an artificial nation, who's borders were defined by foreign powers. It forced together groups that have more loyalty to their ethnic, tribal or religious identity than to any sense of a nation. The only thing holding it together was a strongman dictator. When you remove him - what do you have? It was total ignorance from start to finish.