Both sides of the coin

[PredFan]

And wouldn't it be swell if we could just have this talk, rather than degenerating into partisan bullshit?

Ta.

Oh come on. That was funny.....

It was freaking hilarious!

 

[PredFan]

Your message gets lost in the madness. It's like the raging version of 'too long, didn't read.'

This is my cyber home. Some people want their home to be like an Italian family dinner, - that'd be me. Fun. Full of wit, humor, good times. Tailgating. That kind of thing.

Some are apparently more comfortable hanging out at Stand Up Franks, where the liquor keeps coming provided you remain standing. Vulgarity, brawls, rage, cheap shots. That's their comfort zone.

It's not mine.

There's no reason the two can't exist in the same airspace. I just need to use the ignore button.

Haven't seen very many Italian family dinners have you?

 

[PredFan]

I suggest that everyone who posts on message boards wants, at some level, to be respected. At least respected and at best admired. Do you not think that you forfeit respect when you call people names and are 'generally being obnoxious'? This seems so obvious to me that I cannot understand why others find it so difficult to grasp this rather simple concept.

Or, at the very least, heard. I refer to this as the "Jane, you ignorant slut" style of posting.

Also, I have a very tough time getting past the partisan barrage. I simply cannot ascribe value to the opinions of those who think that speaking in negative generalities is going to get them anywhere.

The shoe fits. I am liberal. I am a Democrat. I am progressive. I support our President. I have respect for not just the office, but the man.

Apparently this means I have no brains whatsoever and I just fell off the turnip truck last night, and verbally abusing me will bring me to my senses.

On this BDBoop I am in wholehearted agreement with you. And, I expect, on many other things as well even though politically we are far apart.

If I argue with you it is because you are worth the effort. You have my respect. Often my opponent, never my enemy.

And thank you very much for this excellent thread.

It is a good thread. Better than any of the rest of the stuff happening today, well except for that very clever and interesting "Left Wing Premature Ejaculation" thread.

 

[Peterf]

Seriously though, what us the point of playing nice? Do you actually think you can change the minds of anyone here? I came from a over-regulated site (so did you boop), where abusing others and name-calling was not allowed. Nothing gets accomplished there either. Most people know that I don't shy away from calling people names and generally being obnoxious, but I'm not that way in real life so I don't worry about it. Call an asfedora an asfedora or worse. It really makes no difference and if someone takes things said on an internet message board seriously well, that's their problem isn't it?

As far as the ignore button well, that works if you only care for those discussions in which people either agree with you or won't offend your delegate sensibilities. I only have one person on ignore and that is because his complete inability to post anything in the least interesting can't make up for his obnoxious overuse of smilies.

Just my opinion.

I suggest that everyone who posts on message boards wants, at some level, to be respected. At least respected and at best admired. Do you not think that you forfeit respect when you call people names and are 'generally being obnoxious'? This seems so obvious to me that I cannot understand why others find it so difficult to grasp this rather simple concept.

I can grasp the concept just fine it's just that the concept doesn't necessarily reflect reality. I agree that there are those who wish to be respected, however I am not one of them and I know that there are a large number if people here who feel the way that I do. In addition, even though I probably get little respect from some people, I know that there are others that I do get respect from. It's a wash basically.

The people I call names and act obnoxious to are not people that I care what they think about me. In fact I learned a long time ago that you cannot control what others think and it is a waste of your time to try.

Some times I am embarrassed by people - not you as I recall - who are on the same side of an argument as me. On boards, as in personal contact, I find it necessary to distance myself from the abusive and the foul mouthed.

As your post above demonstrates you are perfectly able to express yourself intelligently and interestingly so why on earth would you deliberately descend from this high standard? Why emulate semi-literate oafs?

 

[PredFan]

I suggest that everyone who posts on message boards wants, at some level, to be respected. At least respected and at best admired. Do you not think that you forfeit respect when you call people names and are 'generally being obnoxious'? This seems so obvious to me that I cannot understand why others find it so difficult to grasp this rather simple concept.

I can grasp the concept just fine it's just that the concept doesn't necessarily reflect reality. I agree that there are those who wish to be respected, however I am not one of them and I know that there are a large number if people here who feel the way that I do. In addition, even though I probably get little respect from some people, I know that there are others that I do get respect from. It's a wash basically.

The people I call names and act obnoxious to are not people that I care what they think about me. In fact I learned a long time ago that you cannot control what others think and it is a waste of your time to try.

Some times I am embarrassed by people - not you as I recall - who are on the same side of an argument as me. On boards, as in personal contact, I find it necessary to distance myself from the abusive and the foul mouthed.

As your post above demonstrates you are perfectly able to express yourself intelligently and interestingly so why on earth would you deliberately descend from this high standard? Why emulate semi-literate oafs?

An excellent question!

Because this topic isn't politically biased. As you have noted in your agreement with Boop. When I have to deal with partisan crap, it brings out the worst in me. People like that cannot be bargained with, cannot be reasoned with, and will never ever change their position. Why try? Just have fun I say.

Your position is admirable, I applaud you for that but that doesn't mean my position is wrong and while I give you kudos for your position and principles, I do not care to emulate them.

 

[Amelia]

<snipped>

I guess the bottom line I would like to ask any trolls who are willing to be honest - what do you tell yourself that makes such antisocial behavior acceptable, in your mind.

Any educated guesses, links and/or articles from non-trolls are welcome as well.

[MENTION=46168]Statistikhengst[/MENTION]
[MENTION=42916]Derideo_Te[/MENTION]

That's a great question. What makes people take on such a persona and commit such energy to maintaining it? It would be interesting to hear from some of the people who do this, if they would be willing to break character long enough to explain honestly.

 

[Immanuel]

I would agree with you if I were to learn something. I know better than to get my knowledge from an Internet message board.

That said I DO learn about the positions held by the left on any given subject, but I can get that information AND point out the idiots along the way. It's a win-win situation.

Basically, what I feel I have learned on these sites is a lot about the positions of my opponents. For instance, I am pro-life. I used to believe that everyone who is pro-choice was truly pro-abortion. But then conversing with them (something barely allowed on this site anymore) I found that most of them were as opposed to abortion as I was but were much more opposed to the idea of government interference, which is a position I completely agree with.

We do not have to treat an opponent with contempt. If we just give them a chance, we might find that they are not the monsters we once thought they were.

Immie

Understood, but my point is that you can still get their opinions despite rants against them. There are a lot of liberals here who don't let name calling stop them, and I give them credit for that much.

Yeah, but like I said, I suck at name-calling so I prefer the casual conversation.

Immie

 

[BDBoop]

<snipped>

I guess the bottom line I would like to ask any trolls who are willing to be honest - what do you tell yourself that makes such antisocial behavior acceptable, in your mind.

Any educated guesses, links and/or articles from non-trolls are welcome as well.

[MENTION=46168]Statistikhengst[/MENTION]
[MENTION=42916]Derideo_Te[/MENTION]

That's a great question. What makes people take on such a persona and commit such energy to maintaining it? It would be interesting to hear from some of the people who do this, if they would be willing to break character long enough to explain honestly.

That is a hope. I actually hit the right combination of words (elsewhere) and got PM'd by a troll who was so happy I had figured him out.

He didn't give me a 'why' of it, though.

 

[PredFan]

<snipped>

I guess the bottom line I would like to ask any trolls who are willing to be honest - what do you tell yourself that makes such antisocial behavior acceptable, in your mind.

Any educated guesses, links and/or articles from non-trolls are welcome as well.

[MENTION=46168]Statistikhengst[/MENTION]
[MENTION=42916]Derideo_Te[/MENTION]

That's a great question. What makes people take on such a persona and commit such energy to maintaining it? It would be interesting to hear from some of the people who do this, if they would be willing to break character long enough to explain honestly.

I have been doing exactly that, though I think Boop has me on ignore so she may not know.

 

[PredFan]

Basically, what I feel I have learned on these sites is a lot about the positions of my opponents. For instance, I am pro-life. I used to believe that everyone who is pro-choice was truly pro-abortion. But then conversing with them (something barely allowed on this site anymore) I found that most of them were as opposed to abortion as I was but were much more opposed to the idea of government interference, which is a position I completely agree with.

We do not have to treat an opponent with contempt. If we just give them a chance, we might find that they are not the monsters we once thought they were.

Immie

Understood, but my point is that you can still get their opinions despite rants against them. There are a lot of liberals here who don't let name calling stop them, and I give them credit for that much.

Yeah, but like I said, I suck at name-calling so I prefer the casual conversation.

Immie

And please, don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to change your mind on that. I'm simply explaining why I do it.

 

[BDBoop]

You who, blacksand?

Honestly ... No Offense Gracie ... You have a good heart, as well as Boop 85% of the time and almost always Cabbie.
It is just that somehow people think sugar-coating the ill things they say and feel towards others somehow makes it different than what they mean ... It doesn't.

If someone wants to be ugly ... It doesn't matter what their intentions are or how they say it ... They are still being ugly.
The only thing that is really different is that they are being ugly and self-righteous at the same time.

If you want to start a fight ... Expect to get hit ... And don't cry when you do.

.

But is there really a fight?

Who is it that wants a fight and what exactly are they fighting about?

The best way to win a fight is not to have one in the first place. If you can turn enemies into friends then you have already won the fight without anyone getting hurt.

Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?
Abraham Lincoln

Anger and rage are the emotions that drive people to fight.

Reason and logic are what enable us to live together in peace and harmony.

What emotion is driving We the People towards fighting one another?

What is the source of that emotion?

Who is behind it and what is their motivation towards feeding that rage and anger?

Those are the questions that reasonable and logical people should be asking ourselves.

The answers could easily result in uniting We the People instead of dividing us.

Excellent points!! What is to be gained by keeping us at each other's throats? Then we won't be looking at what is actually happening with the man behind the curtain. We won't be holding Washington responsible, and they can quite literally get away with murder while aiming us at each other.

 

[Amelia]

<snipped>

I guess the bottom line I would like to ask any trolls who are willing to be honest - what do you tell yourself that makes such antisocial behavior acceptable, in your mind.

Any educated guesses, links and/or articles from non-trolls are welcome as well.

[MENTION=46168]Statistikhengst[/MENTION]
[MENTION=42916]Derideo_Te[/MENTION]

That's a great question. What makes people take on such a persona and commit such energy to maintaining it? It would be interesting to hear from some of the people who do this, if they would be willing to break character long enough to explain honestly.

I have been doing exactly that.

I'm not sure you're in the class of poster I'm thinking about. At least I don't remember you being that way.

 

[BDBoop]

I suggest that everyone who posts on message boards wants, at some level, to be respected. At least respected and at best admired. Do you not think that you forfeit respect when you call people names and are 'generally being obnoxious'? This seems so obvious to me that I cannot understand why others find it so difficult to grasp this rather simple concept.

Or, at the very least, heard. I refer to this as the "Jane, you ignorant slut" style of posting.

Also, I have a very tough time getting past the partisan barrage. I simply cannot ascribe value to the opinions of those who think that speaking in negative generalities is going to get them anywhere.

The shoe fits. I am liberal. I am a Democrat. I am progressive. I support our President. I have respect for not just the office, but the man.

Apparently this means I have no brains whatsoever and I just fell off the turnip truck last night, and verbally abusing me will bring me to my senses.

On this BDBoop I am in wholehearted agreement with you. And, I expect, on many other things as well even though politically we are far apart.

If I argue with you it is because you are worth the effort. You have my respect. Often my opponent, never my enemy.

And thank you very much for this excellent thread.

You are welcome.

 

[Spoonman]

Honestly ... No Offense Gracie ... You have a good heart, as well as Boop 85% of the time and almost always Cabbie.
It is just that somehow people think sugar-coating the ill things they say and feel towards others somehow makes it different than what they mean ... It doesn't.

If someone wants to be ugly ... It doesn't matter what their intentions are or how they say it ... They are still being ugly.
The only thing that is really different is that they are being ugly and self-righteous at the same time.

If you want to start a fight ... Expect to get hit ... And don't cry when you do.

.

But is there really a fight?

Who is it that wants a fight and what exactly are they fighting about?

The best way to win a fight is not to have one in the first place. If you can turn enemies into friends then you have already won the fight without anyone getting hurt.

Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?
Abraham Lincoln

Anger and rage are the emotions that drive people to fight.

Reason and logic are what enable us to live together in peace and harmony.

What emotion is driving We the People towards fighting one another?

What is the source of that emotion?

Who is behind it and what is their motivation towards feeding that rage and anger?

Those are the questions that reasonable and logical people should be asking ourselves.

The answers could easily result in uniting We the People instead of dividing us.

Excellent points!! What is to be gained by keeping us at each other's throats? Then we won't be looking at what is actually happening with the man behind the curtain. We won't be holding Washington responsible, and they can quite literally get away with murder while aiming us at each other.

polarization has set in. and is going to be something that is real hard to break. the real problem is politicians no longer have minds for themselves. in Washington, you either tow the party line or you are out. Not every democrat believes in gun control and not every republican believes in preventing gay marriage. but the problem is partisan politics force politicians to support the party line. and that is what leads to the public galvanizing to the right or left. as soon as an issue you are very passionate about becomes a topic of discussion you are pushed to either the right or left, because you know one part is going to fully support you or oppose you. There is no middle ground

 

[PredFan]

That's a great question. What makes people take on such a persona and commit such energy to maintaining it? It would be interesting to hear from some of the people who do this, if they would be willing to break character long enough to explain honestly.

I have been doing exactly that.

I'm not sure you're in the class of poster I'm thinking about. At least I don't remember you being that way.

Yeah, I freely admit to being obnoxious on a regular basis.

 

[Statistikhengst]

But is there really a fight?

Who is it that wants a fight and what exactly are they fighting about?

The best way to win a fight is not to have one in the first place. If you can turn enemies into friends then you have already won the fight without anyone getting hurt.

​

Anger and rage are the emotions that drive people to fight.

Reason and logic are what enable us to live together in peace and harmony.

What emotion is driving We the People towards fighting one another?

What is the source of that emotion?

Who is behind it and what is their motivation towards feeding that rage and anger?

Those are the questions that reasonable and logical people should be asking ourselves.

The answers could easily result in uniting We the People instead of dividing us.

Excellent points!! What is to be gained by keeping us at each other's throats? Then we won't be looking at what is actually happening with the man behind the curtain. We won't be holding Washington responsible, and they can quite literally get away with murder while aiming us at each other.

polarization has set in. and is going to be something that is real hard to break. the real problem is politicians no longer have minds for themselves. in Washington, you either tow the party line or you are out. Not every democrat believes in gun control and not every republican believes in preventing gay marriage. but the problem is partisan politics force politicians to support the party line. and that is what leads to the public galvanizing to the right or left. as soon as an issue you are very passionate about becomes a topic of discussion you are pushed to either the right or left, because you know one part is going to fully support you or oppose you. There is no middle ground

[MENTION=24208]Spoonman[/MENTION]

As very strongly evidenced by the disappearance of Blue Dog DEMS and Rockefeller Republicans. Another two more blue dogs announced their retirements in the last days.

And just to think: in 1976, Ronald Reagan, in a parliamentary trick at the GOP national convention, went out of his way to pick the man who would be his running-mate, were he to secure the nomination and take it away from incumbent Pres. Gerald R. Ford. That man's name: Richard Schweiker, a LIBERAL Republican from the state of Pennsylvania. Reagan went so far as to force a vote on the floor to force Ford to declare his running mate before the balloting for the Presidential nomination, a move that lost, but gave the convention the "look" of a 2nd ballot nomination. It also, of course, forced the nomination, which Ford won by around 100 delegates, to go way into the night.

I will say that again: just 38 years ago, the man whom many Conservatives consider the greatest Conservative icon of all time WENT OUT OF HIS WAY to select a decidedly liberal running mate at the Convention. Back then, Ronald Reagan calculated that this would be to his advantage, and not to his detriment.

Not only is that utter irony of history, but also shows how much we have changed as a nation in 2 generations.

 

[Amelia]

I have been doing exactly that.

I'm not sure you're in the class of poster I'm thinking about. At least I don't remember you being that way.

Yeah, I freely admit to being obnoxious on a regular basis.

Hmmm, I should pay closer attention. However, I was referring to seriously hateful personas -- like the kinds of people who say they are against abortion unless the child in the womb is mixed race. Or to think of a non-nazi/KKK example: people who claim to be Muslim but who seem to be determined to increase tension between Muslims and non-Muslims just for grins.

 

[Pogo]

I have been posting on various boards since the 90's.......During that time I've played nice and Polite all the time.....................

However, when they call us Anarchists for our opinions, Nazi's and the like which is done all the time I have no REASON to PLAY NICE.................

I ditch PC...............To me it is utter BS..........I can be polite, and often I am just as I can throw mud with the best of them............

These LIBS always say WE NEED TO COMPROMISE WITH THEM..............aka Do as I say and OBEY.........Get to the back of the bus........ignore our facts and REASON all the time..........and when we refuse to OBEY they simply LIE and call us names..............

They have refused to cut ANYTHING EXCEPT Sequster which was an Obama plan.........and then cry like babies about a 1% cut as they increase the size of Gov't.

That isn't compromise...........It isn't compromise when they purposely ignore the Damage done by Obamacare, and the Debt problem..............

They can spare me the Faux Outrage on this issue...........When they finally come to the table with REASONABLE approaches to BIG GOV'T, then we can talk.......Until then THEY CAN GO TO HELL...........

That's the deal..............

Anyone who doesn't like it can iggy me, or simply choose not to engage..........But should they decide to engage, I will not back down on my principles..........And when they call me Anarchist and a Nazi..................they will get it back from me.

You keep dipping into this "PC" well. Doesn't make a lot of sense. What is it you think "PC" means, as you're using the term?

Second observation: your delivery style contradicts your earlier claim to be reason-based. It's pure emotionality. The jumps to ALL CAPS... the "THEY CAN GO TO HELL" -- is hardly the stuff of cold logic.

PC is political correctness as you already know...........

Which part of my statements on how I don't care about PC don't you understand.........All CAPS, SO WHAT...............

This is not a FACT BASED DISCUSSION...............It's about politeness and PC.......I'm usually Polite on most threads, but when it goes in the toilet I fire back............

This isn't an OP about a subject like the Debt, or Obamacare..........It's about posting in general..................And on those threads I post a lot of reference material to back up my claims..............

Exactly what do I need to post as reference material on this thread.....................

Some PSYCHOLOGY DRIBBLE ARTICLE.............

Either way.......there is a divide in this country......The Libs are refusing to budge on principles but demanding that we do.................Excuse me for telling them to get lost until they come to the table.............With real cuts and COMPROMISE...............As all they do is say OBEY all the time, which we refuse to do so.........

And again, I have no reason to be polite to those calling my stance on Gov't Anarchists and Nazi's.................

Take this post and my way of posting any way you like..........What ever floats your boat.

Yeah we all know what the abbreviation "PC" stands for -- but what does it mean?

The OP never mentioned "PC" at all. You're the only one that keeps going there. And from the way you're using it I don't think you understand what it means. And your inability to explain it pretty much confirms that. Perhaps you need a synonym but as it is you're not making much sense here.

 

[Pogo]

Seriously though, what us the point of playing nice? Do you actually think you can change the minds of anyone here? I came from a over-regulated site (so did you boop), where abusing others and name-calling was not allowed. Nothing gets accomplished there either. Most people know that I don't shy away from calling people names and generally being obnoxious, but I'm not that way in real life so I don't worry about it. Call an asfedora an asfedora or worse. It really makes no difference and if someone takes things said on an internet message board seriously well, that's their problem isn't it?

As far as the ignore button well, that works if you only care for those discussions in which people either agree with you or won't offend your delegate sensibilities. I only have one person on ignore and that is because his complete inability to post anything in the least interesting can't make up for his obnoxious overuse of smilies.

Just my opinion.

I suggest that everyone who posts on message boards wants, at some level, to be respected. At least respected and at best admired. Do you not think that you forfeit respect when you call people names and are 'generally being obnoxious'? This seems so obvious to me that I cannot understand why others find it so difficult to grasp this rather simple concept.

I can grasp the concept just fine it's just that the concept doesn't necessarily reflect reality. I agree that there are those who wish to be respected, however I am not one of them and I know that there are a large number if people here who feel the way that I do. In addition, even though I probably get little respect from some people, I know that there are others that I do get respect from. It's a wash basically.

The people I call names and act obnoxious to are not people that I care what they think about me. In fact I learned a long time ago that you cannot control what others think and it is a waste of your time to try.

So given that verbal abuse is counterproductive to making reasoned ponts, you're saying your purpose here is not to make any particular argumentative point, but to feel good about yourself by abusing others. Which I think is what the OP wants to explain -- why that would be a goal at all.

And wouldn't it be swell if we could just have this talk, rather than degenerating into partisan bullshit?

Ta.

Hmmm, isn't that what the Tea Room or Coffee Shop or whatever that thread is called, is for?

Absolutely not. Political talk is firmly verboten there. Same in the Tavern. Ask Libertarianman how that goes down. In both threads.

 

[Pogo]

I can grasp the concept just fine it's just that the concept doesn't necessarily reflect reality. I agree that there are those who wish to be respected, however I am not one of them and I know that there are a large number if people here who feel the way that I do. In addition, even though I probably get little respect from some people, I know that there are others that I do get respect from. It's a wash basically.

The people I call names and act obnoxious to are not people that I care what they think about me. In fact I learned a long time ago that you cannot control what others think and it is a waste of your time to try.

Some times I am embarrassed by people - not you as I recall - who are on the same side of an argument as me. On boards, as in personal contact, I find it necessary to distance myself from the abusive and the foul mouthed.

As your post above demonstrates you are perfectly able to express yourself intelligently and interestingly so why on earth would you deliberately descend from this high standard? Why emulate semi-literate oafs?

An excellent question!

Because this topic isn't politically biased. As you have noted in your agreement with Boop. When I have to deal with partisan crap, it brings out the worst in me. People like that cannot be bargained with, cannot be reasoned with, and will never ever change their position. Why try? Just have fun I say.

Your position is admirable, I applaud you for that but that doesn't mean my position is wrong and while I give you kudos for your position and principles, I do not care to emulate them.

-- actually... yeah it does mean that.