Blood test for Downs creates ethical debate

[Skull Pilot]

Why would anyone want a child that would grow up to be a prick? It takes all kinds. You are not better than a DS person. You might think you are but you ain't.

When did I ever say I was better than anyone?

I asked why would anyone want a child with birth defects.

If there is an option for early genetic testing then why not get tested and see if a child will be healthy? And if it won't be healthy, why not terminate as early as possible?

Eugenics. Nice.

People practice eugenics all the time. You pick the best mate you can in hopes of producing the best offspring you can. Just because you may do this unconsciously does not mean you don't do it.

 

[Sherry]

When did I ever say I was better than anyone?

I asked why would anyone want a child with birth defects.

If there is an option for early genetic testing then why not get tested and see if a child will be healthy? And if it won't be healthy, why not terminate as early as possible?

Why not? Because it's a human being.... who knows what that human being will achieve once it comes into the world. I dislike this obsession with 'perfect', I like flaws. Flaws make us human.

I don't consider DS to be 'defective', it is just different. There is nothing bad about different. Perhaps because I actually know DS people, that I am more informed as to what DS means. To me, they are just people.

I worked with mentally retarded adults for a few years ranging from mildly to severely retarded and a lot of those people had Downe's. So don't think I'm ignorant about the mentally handicapped population.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with not wanting a retarded child.

Ok, but do you think there is anything wrong with wanting a handicapped child....because the way you phrased your question might leave that impression.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Why not? Because it's a human being.... who knows what that human being will achieve once it comes into the world. I dislike this obsession with 'perfect', I like flaws. Flaws make us human.

I don't consider DS to be 'defective', it is just different. There is nothing bad about different. Perhaps because I actually know DS people, that I am more informed as to what DS means. To me, they are just people.

I worked with mentally retarded adults for a few years ranging from mildly to severely retarded and a lot of those people had Downe's. So don't think I'm ignorant about the mentally handicapped population.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with not wanting a retarded child.

Ok, but do you think there is anything wrong with wanting a handicapped child....because the way you phrased your question might leave that impression.

I do not understand why anyone would choose to have a retarded child.

I would not choose to do so.

 

[Sherry]

I worked with mentally retarded adults for a few years ranging from mildly to severely retarded and a lot of those people had Downe's. So don't think I'm ignorant about the mentally handicapped population.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with not wanting a retarded child.

Ok, but do you think there is anything wrong with wanting a handicapped child....because the way you phrased your question might leave that impression.

I do not understand why anyone would choose to have a retarded child.

I would not choose to do so.

Are you able to consider other perspectives that are different from your own?? If 20 years from now there was no reason, other than an informed choice, for people to have handicapped children, how would you view those parents for their decision??

 

[Skull Pilot]

Ok, but do you think there is anything wrong with wanting a handicapped child....because the way you phrased your question might leave that impression.

I do not understand why anyone would choose to have a retarded child.

I would not choose to do so.

Are you able to consider other perspectives that are different from your own?? If 20 years from now there was no reason, other than an informed choice, for people to have handicapped children, how would you view those parents for their decision??

Quite honestly i think they would be doing a disservice to the child.

 

[jillian]

why is it creating an "ethical debate"? the anti-choicers may be creating a debate, but really, we've always been able to do genetic testing and have a result within the guidelines of roe v wade.

non-issue, imo. and too bad if the anti-choicers are cranky.

I agree, no reason is needed for the pro abortion camp

oh there are reasons. just none that are your business.

and no one is "pro abortion". people are pro choice or anti-choice. it's not overly complex.

but i know it sounds better for the anti-choicers to say things like that. it suits the propaganda better.

 

[Sherry]

I do not understand why anyone would choose to have a retarded child.

I would not choose to do so.

Are you able to consider other perspectives that are different from your own?? If 20 years from now there was no reason, other than an informed choice, for people to have handicapped children, how would you view those parents for their decision??

Quite honestly i think they would be doing a disservice to the child.

In every single case?? It might not be the existence that you'd choose for yourself or your child, but if it can be one in which other people experience happiness, joy and love, then it is a life with positive meaning.

 

[jillian]

Are you able to consider other perspectives that are different from your own?? If 20 years from now there was no reason, other than an informed choice, for people to have handicapped children, how would you view those parents for their decision??

Quite honestly i think they would be doing a disservice to the child.

In every single case?? It might not be the existence that you'd choose for yourself or your child, but if it can be one in which other people experience happiness, joy and love, then it is a life with positive meaning.

and when the parents die and the child can't take care of itself?

i wouldn't presume to make that choice for anyone else, though i think the children create an incredible burdern on their parents and on society. but it seems pretty clear that no one has the right to make those decisions for others.

 

[Sherry]

Quite honestly i think they would be doing a disservice to the child.

In every single case?? It might not be the existence that you'd choose for yourself or your child, but if it can be one in which other people experience happiness, joy and love, then it is a life with positive meaning.

and when the parents die and the child can't take care of itself?

Is that a disservice to the child or society??

 

[jillian]

In every single case?? It might not be the existence that you'd choose for yourself or your child, but if it can be one in which other people experience happiness, joy and love, then it is a life with positive meaning.

and when the parents die and the child can't take care of itself?

Is that a disservice to the child or society??

both probably. though i added to my post after you quoted.

 

[manifold]

Many of you self-righteous, hypocritical douchwagons really crack me up.

If a woman terminates a perfectly healthy, normal fetus simply because she doesn't want the responsibility, that's her personal choice and everyone should butt out. But but but, if she terminates because she knows she has a retard growing inside her, she's an evil c*nt.

Got it.

 

[R.D.]

I agree, no reason is needed for the pro abortion camp

oh there are reasons. just none that are your business.

and no one is "pro abortion". people are pro choice or anti-choice. it's not overly complex.

but i know it sounds better for the anti-choicers to say things like that. it suits the propaganda better.

Really? There super secret private reasons not to abort? Do tell

You should learn to play fair - anti choice works for me so pro abortion should work for you.

 

[Sherry]

and when the parents die and the child can't take care of itself?

Is that a disservice to the child or society??

both probably. though i added to my post after you quoted.

Quite honestly i think they would be doing a disservice to the child.

In every single case?? It might not be the existence that you'd choose for yourself or your child, but if it can be one in which other people experience happiness, joy and love, then it is a life with positive meaning.

and when the parents die and the child can't take care of itself?

i wouldn't presume to make that choice for anyone else, though i think the children create an incredible burdern on their parents and on society. but it seems pretty clear that no one has the right to make those decisions for others.

I agree.

 

[martybegan]

Many of you self-righteous, hypocritical douchwagons really crack me up.

If a woman terminates a perfectly healthy, normal fetus simply because she doesn't want the responsibility, that's her personal choice and everyone should butt out. But but but, if she terminates because she knows she has a retard growing inside her, she's an evil c*nt.

Got it.

Actually I find the abortion for reason of birth control to be worse than aborting one due to serious health defect.

 

[martybegan]

I agree, no reason is needed for the pro abortion camp

oh there are reasons. just none that are your business.

and no one is "pro abortion". people are pro choice or anti-choice. it's not overly complex.

but i know it sounds better for the anti-choicers to say things like that. it suits the propaganda better.

Really? There super secret private reasons not to abort? Do tell

You should learn to play fair - anti choice works for me so pro abortion should work for you.

Or we can go with pro abortion on demand and anti abortion on demand.

 

[manifold]

Many of you self-righteous, hypocritical douchwagons really crack me up.

If a woman terminates a perfectly healthy, normal fetus simply because she doesn't want the responsibility, that's her personal choice and everyone should butt out. But but but, if she terminates because she knows she has a retard growing inside her, she's an evil c*nt.

Got it.

Actually I find the abortion for reason of birth control to be worse than aborting one due to serious health defect.

I agree completely.

 

[Sherry]

Many of you self-righteous, hypocritical douchwagons really crack me up.

If a woman terminates a perfectly healthy, normal fetus simply because she doesn't want the responsibility, that's her personal choice and everyone should butt out. But but but, if she terminates because she knows she has a retard growing inside her, she's an evil c*nt.

Got it.

Actually I find the abortion for reason of birth control to be worse than aborting one due to serious health defect.

Oh that's just mani throwing out a convoluted summation in an attempt to throw the civil debate off track.

 

[manifold]

Many of you self-righteous, hypocritical douchwagons really crack me up.

If a woman terminates a perfectly healthy, normal fetus simply because she doesn't want the responsibility, that's her personal choice and everyone should butt out. But but but, if she terminates because she knows she has a retard growing inside her, she's an evil c*nt.

Got it.

Actually I find the abortion for reason of birth control to be worse than aborting one due to serious health defect.

Oh that's just mani throwing out a convoluted summation in an attempt to throw the civil debate off track.

convoluted?

Sorry sis, not the case this time. I've discussed this very topic many many times and several, if not most pro-choicers suddenly have a problem with supporting a woman's choice to abort when the reason is a birth defect. Once even asked about the ethics of aborting a fetus if it could be pre-determined that the child would be homosexual. You should've seen them all lose their shit.

 

[syrenn]

Interesting article...


Blood test for Down syndrome creates ethical debate


Snip...

Companies are racing to market a more accurate blood test than those available now that could spare many women the need for an amnio or CVS. It would retrieve fetal DNA from the mother's bloodstream. And the answer could come before the pregnancy is obvious to others. For some women, that might mean abortion is a more tenable choice. For others it could be a mixed blessing.

Snip...

A diagnosis before birth can pose a difficult challenge for couples as they decide whether to continue the pregnancy. It's not only about child-rearing, but also about what happens as the child grows into an older adult and may need care that the aging parents struggle to provide, says Dr. Mary Norton, a Stanford University professor of obstetrics and gynecology.

Snip...

Since the new blood test could deliver an answer so early — before a pregnancy is showing or the baby is kicking — it might make getting an abortion easier, several observers said. Women haven't bonded so much, and "they wouldn't have to explain to as many people," said Christie Brooks, who moderates an online support group for women who've gotten abortions for medical reasons.

"No one needs to know you're pregnant," said Skotko. "Maybe you haven't even told your husband."

Skotko said he respects that a woman's right to continue or terminate a pregnancy is a personal one for couples. But he's concerned that in the case of Down syndrome, many women may be getting bad information about what having the baby would mean. And if the new test became routine it would only exacerbate that problem, he said.

Studies show medical students are poorly trained about people with disabilities and that some doctors who make a prenatal diagnosis emphasize negative information about the condition, he said.


Blood test for Down syndrome creates ethical debate - Health - Pregnancy - msnbc.com

I think all women should have a test like this to make better informed choices about aborting or keeping a baby.

I also feel that once a diagnosis like this is made that the parents know up front that they will be totally financially responsible for that child for the rest of its life.

 

[Sherry]

Actually I find the abortion for reason of birth control to be worse than aborting one due to serious health defect.

Oh that's just mani throwing out a convoluted summation in an attempt to throw the civil debate off track.

convoluted?

Sorry sis, not the case this time. I've discussed this very topic many many times and several, if not most pro-choicers suddenly have a problem with supporting a woman's choice to abort when the reason is a birth defect. Once even asked about the ethics of aborting a fetus if it could be pre-determined that the child would be homosexual. You should've seen them all lose their shit.

Alright, I'll take your word for it.....this time.