Blame Bush now?

[The Man @ Lunch]

You need to read the rest of my posts. I believe I already pointed that out to RSR.

But does it really matter what anyone points out to RSR?

 

[Gunny]

But does it really matter what anyone points out to RSR?

You are neither required to read what he posts, nor respond to him. To answer your question, no it doesn't. There should be something in that answer for you to take with you.

As far as this particular little discussion goes, MM made a statement; which, I asked for clarification on, and RSR has provided some evidence to counter the statement.

I find the topic interesting. Who actually DID/IS making the claim Bush stole the election in 2000? Is it Dems to include the DNC? Or just extremists and the media?

 

[maineman]

DU is not rank and file democrats?

no. It is not. It is a site that caters to the extreme left wing of the democratic party.

Is Operation Rescue rank and file republicans?

 

[The Man @ Lunch]

But does it really matter what anyone points out to RSR?

To answer your question, no it doesn't. There should be something in that answer for you to take with you.

Absolutely, I appreciate the candid answer. Thanks, Marine.

Who actually DID/IS making the claim Bush stole the election in 2000? Is it Dems to include the DNC?

I'm not aware of anyone who can speak for the Democratic party in an official capacity saying, publicly or on record, that Bush stole the election. Which doesn't mean that he didn't, of course.

 

[Superlative]

I find the topic interesting. Who actually DID/IS making the claim Bush stole the election in 2000? Is it Dems to include the DNC? Or just extremists and the media?

From what ive heard of this, which is very little, is that Fox News reported that Bush won the election, at like 2:16 am, (before the counts were in) or something like that, and within 20 minutes every other News station reported the same thing.

Some how, some way, this, in the eyes of the public meant Bush had won.

Before the votes were tallied.

Hence the stealing of the election?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Moveon.Org is not a recognized part of the Democratic Party machine? And still waiting to know how it is DU has no membes of the rank and file democrats posting there.

 

[The Man @ Lunch]

Moveon.Org is not a recognized part of the Democratic Party machine?

Moveon.org is just a PAC. If you want to call it part of the "Democratic Party machine," you also have to call the Rutherford Foundation part of the Republican Party machine.

And still waiting to know how it is DU has no membes of the rank and file democrats posting there.

Even if they do, there's a huge difference between posting anonymously and speaking officially on behalf of your employer.

 

[Gunny]

From what ive heard of this, which is very little, is that Fox News reported that Bush won the election, at like 2:16 am, (before the counts were in) or something like that, and within 20 minutes every other News station reported the same thing.

Some how, some way, this, in the eyes of the public meant Bush had won.

Before the votes were tallied.

Hence the stealing of the election?

This addresses a completely separate issue that has annoyed me in every election. The polls should open and close at the same time, regardless local time. One state's results should not be reported until every state's results have been tallied.

I think that would do MUCH to minimize confusion.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

From what ive heard of this, which is very little, is that Fox News reported that Bush won the election, at like 2:16 am, (before the counts were in) or something like that, and within 20 minutes every other News station reported the same thing.

Some how, some way, this, in the eyes of the public meant Bush had won.

Before the votes were tallied.

Hence the stealing of the election?

The problem with this claim is hours before around 10PM 2 of the 3 networks declared Gore the winner. They retracted that and in the case of one of the networks the reporters on screen were ready to burst out in tears when they did.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Moveon.org is just a PAC. If you want to call it part of the "Democratic Party machine," you also have to call the Rutherford Foundation part of the Republican Party machine.

Even if they do, there's a huge difference between posting anonymously and speaking officially on behalf of your employer.

Maineman has declared that few democrats ever claimed the election was stolen. This is simple NOT true.

 

[mattskramer]

Maineman has declared that few democrats ever claimed the election was stolen. This is simple NOT true.

Would the DNC web site serve as a good source for an official statement from the Democrats, as a whole, with respect to the 2000 election? I’ll check it out and see if I can find an official position.

 

[The Man @ Lunch]

Maineman has declared that few democrats ever claimed the election was stolen. This is simple NOT true.

If you're talking about "average Joe" citizens who just happen to be registered Democrats and nothing else, then I'd agree with you. However, I thought Mr. Maine was referring only to those who represented the party itself, in some official way.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

He identified TWO groups. The acknowledged Leaders AND Rank and File Democrats. You won't find many references directly from any leaders, they are much to savy to make that mistake, but they have and continue to allow organizations like DU and Moveon.Org do that for them.

BUT rank and file HAVE made the claim that the election was stolen. To claim otherwise is either an outright lie or a delusional state of denial.

 

[red states rule]

If you're talking about "average Joe" citizens who just happen to be registered Democrats and nothing else, then I'd agree with you. However, I thought Mr. Maine was referring only to those who represented the party itself, in some official way.

Then there is Terry McAuliffe, who promised Jeb Bush would lose in 2002 due to Fl being stolen

Does the head of the DNC count?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Then there is Terry McAuliffe, who promised Jeb Bush would lose in 2002 due to Fl being stolen

Does the head of the DNC count?

Doesn't count, he isn't in charge anymore and besides you haven't provided a suitably liberal source for that statement.

 

[red states rule]

Doesn't count, he isn't in charge anymore and besides you haven't provided a suitably liberal source for that statement.

It does count - he was the head of the DNC

Here is one source - there are many

He was all over the liberal media bellowing how the Bush brothers would pay for the 2000 election


http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/10/25/72308.shtml

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You are not paying attention, unless you link to a Liberal source any link you provide is just propaganda put out by the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy.

And you better be careful, Maineman will be back soon and as usual will resort to name calling , cursing and come up with some inane question totally irrelevant to the issue, failing that he will just character assassinate you.

 

[red states rule]

You are not paying attention, unless you link to a Liberal source any link you provide is just propaganda put out by the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy.

And you better be careful, Maineman will be back soon and as usual will resort to name calling , cursing and come up with some inane question totally irrelevant to the issue, failing that he will just character assassinate you.

So what else is new about MM?

I loved it when Bill Clinton went to Fl when the polls showed Jeb was up by only 4 points

Bill hit the state days before the election and stood by McBride

Jeb won by double digits

 

[Superlative]

This addresses a completely separate issue that has annoyed me in every election. The polls should open and close at the same time, regardless local time. One state's results should not be reported until every state's results have been tallied.

I think that would do MUCH to minimize confusion.

It was also said that some 20,000 Democrat votes in Florida were not counted.

http://digg.com/videos/educational/Banned_BBC_Documentary_Bush_Stole_2004_Elections_2
And a bunch of other stuff.

<embed src='http://us.i1.yimg.com/cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/player/media/swf/FLVVideoSolo.swf' flashvars='id=741182&emailUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.yahoo.com%2Futil%2Fmail%3Fei%3DUTF-8%26vid%3D182587%26fr%3D&imUrl=http%253A%252F%252Fvideo.yahoo.com%252Fvideo%252Fplay%253Fei%253DUTF-8%2526vid%253D182587&imTitle=BBC%2BNews%2BProves%2BBush%2BStole%2Bthe%2B2000%2BPresidential%2BElection&searchUrl=http://video.yahoo.com/video/search?p=&profileUrl=http://video.yahoo.com/video/profile?yid=&creatorValue=cXJ4eA%3D%3D&vid=182587' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' width='425' height='350'></embed>
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/07/23/billpress.column/index.html

How Bush-Cheney stole the 2000 election was a matter of obvious historical fact, confirmed by post-facto mainstream media reports of a Gore win, and detailed by numerous investigators such as Greg Palast in his book The Best Democracy Money Can Buy. Voters complained about old machines and paper ballots.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHI411B.html
was_the_2004_election_stolen

 

[Gunny]

It was also said that some 20,000 Democrat votes in Florida were not counted.

http://digg.com/videos/educational/Banned_BBC_Documentary_Bush_Stole_2004_Elections_2
And a bunch of other stuff.

<embed src='http://us.i1.yimg.com/cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/player/media/swf/FLVVideoSolo.swf' flashvars='id=741182&emailUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.yahoo.com%2Futil%2Fmail%3Fei%3DUTF-8%26vid%3D182587%26fr%3D&imUrl=http%253A%252F%252Fvideo.yahoo.com%252Fvideo%252Fplay%253Fei%253DUTF-8%2526vid%253D182587&imTitle=BBC%2BNews%2BProves%2BBush%2BStole%2Bthe%2B2000%2BPresidential%2BElection&searchUrl=http://video.yahoo.com/video/search?p=&profileUrl=http://video.yahoo.com/video/profile?yid=&creatorValue=cXJ4eA%3D%3D&vid=182587' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' width='425' height='350'></embed>
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/07/23/billpress.column/index.html



http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHI411B.html
was_the_2004_election_stolen

See, I disagree with that. I voted in FL the first time I voted. In Miami to be exact. The punchcard/butterfly ballot is pretty self-expalantory and simple. It states clearly to punch a hole through the place provided next to the name you wanted to vote for. If you aren't smart enough to do that, you probably shouldn't be allowed to vote anyway.

However, this brings into play the argument whether the vote is the most important thing, or following the procedure that ensures your vote is counted. The rules and regs state what will and will not be accepted. I think that's fair, and simple enough.

IMO, if you don't meet the procedural requirements, your vote doesn't count. That's the rules. It's BEEN the rules. Why all of a sudden for this particular election following standard procedure suddenly became "disenfranchising voters" is clearly a statement in and of itself.