Bill Moyers speaks with former insurance insider/pr man

[WillowTree]

sounds to me like illegals will get treatment

http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf

Section 246 (page 143).

So again. Let me know when you decide to stop making shit up.

what exactly is it you think I've made up? can you be specific?

 

[Emma]

sounds to me like illegals will get treatment

http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf

Section 246 (page 143).

So again. Let me know when you decide to stop making shit up.

what exactly is it you think I've made up? can you be specific?

Big red letters. Does that help?

 

[WillowTree]

http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf

Section 246 (page 143).

So again. Let me know when you decide to stop making shit up.

what exactly is it you think I've made up? can you be specific?

Big red letters. Does that help?

but how you gonna prevent that? illegals getting health care?? that's what I would like to know yew got any idears?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

See what I mean? No one can tell you who will be denied; and there is no magic number for what age everyone will be denied (whatever it is they are denying). I can tell you that decisions about treatment options are based upon risk vs benefit. Age IS a factor in some cases, because of co-morbidities that are more prevalent in older people which cause the risks to outweigh the benefits. But that doesn't preclude them from receiving treatment.

Cost estimates are out there if you want to look them up; personally, I do expect that costs will rise initially, then decline as so many more (not all, of course) have access to preventative/maintenance care. And frankly, though I can't speak for my colleagues or docs I work with, I'm tired of crisis management and putting out fires. Sure, there are still going to be people who won't go to a doc until they are in serious shape. That's a given. But in the long term, this is going to save money now spent treating preventable complications (and the complications of those complications), disability benefits, lost productivity, etc.

"Who will oversee the industry?"

http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf (starting on page 41)

Euthanasia: a cost saving idea from Libruls who want to federally fund abortions.

Terrific.

^ case in point. Your side doesn't wish to discuss the merit of what's actually being proposed, you just want to make shit up.

"good guy" my ass.

Why the fuck won't Nancy Pelosi answer the question Em? She always avoids answering if abortions will be federally funded (you know they will. I know they will so let's quit pretending)?

According to the Dems, old people get too much care in this nation and they have to put an end to that

 

[WillowTree]

what exactly is it you think I've made up? can you be specific?

Big red letters. Does that help?

but how you gonna prevent that? illegals getting health care?? that's what I would like to know yew got any idears?

?????????????????

 

[Emma]

Euthanasia: a cost saving idea from Libruls who want to federally fund abortions.

Terrific.

^ case in point. Your side doesn't wish to discuss the merit of what's actually being proposed, you just want to make shit up.

"good guy" my ass.

Why the fuck won't Nancy Pelosi answer the question Em? She always avoids answering if abortions will be federally funded (you know they will. I know they will so let's quit pretending)?

According to the Dems, old people get too much care in this nation and they have to put an end to that

I don't give a shit who wants federally funded abortions. Other than for exceptions regarding protecting the health/life of the mother, something like that will never be allowed to be included in the bill.

And as far as "according to the Dems, old people get too much care in this nation and they have to put an end to that", you can provide proof of that statement, I'm sure.

 

[Emma]

Big red letters. Does that help?

but how you gonna prevent that? illegals getting health care?? that's what I would like to know yew got any idears?

?????????????????

Like I said. Quit making shit up and I'll be glad to talk about it.

 

[WillowTree]

yes and?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

^ case in point. Your side doesn't wish to discuss the merit of what's actually being proposed, you just want to make shit up.

"good guy" my ass.

Why the fuck won't Nancy Pelosi answer the question Em? She always avoids answering if abortions will be federally funded (you know they will. I know they will so let's quit pretending)?

According to the Dems, old people get too much care in this nation and they have to put an end to that

I don't give a shit who wants federally funded abortions. Other than for exceptions regarding protecting the health/life of the mother, something like that will never be allowed to be included in the bill.

And as far as "according to the Dems, old people get too much care in this nation and they have to put an end to that", you can provide proof of that statement, I'm sure.

Are you 100% positive you want to go down this road?

What will you do when I post quotes from the Obama Administration saying exactly that?

 

[WillowTree]

but how you gonna prevent that? illegals getting health care?? that's what I would like to know yew got any idears?

?????????????????

Like I said. Quit making shit up and I'll be glad to talk about it.

what did I make up specifically?

 

[Emma]

Why the fuck won't Nancy Pelosi answer the question Em? She always avoids answering if abortions will be federally funded (you know they will. I know they will so let's quit pretending)?

According to the Dems, old people get too much care in this nation and they have to put an end to that

I don't give a shit who wants federally funded abortions. Other than for exceptions regarding protecting the health/life of the mother, something like that will never be allowed to be included in the bill.

And as far as "according to the Dems, old people get too much care in this nation and they have to put an end to that", you can provide proof of that statement, I'm sure.

Are you 100% positive you want to go down this road?

What will you do when I post quotes from the Obama Administration saying exactly that?

Go for it.

And I'll say the same to you. If you want to discuss the bill and what is contained within it, fine. Otherwise, have fun arguing with yourself.

 

[WillowTree]

I don't give a shit who wants federally funded abortions. Other than for exceptions regarding protecting the health/life of the mother, something like that will never be allowed to be included in the bill.

And as far as "according to the Dems, old people get too much care in this nation and they have to put an end to that", you can provide proof of that statement, I'm sure.

Are you 100% positive you want to go down this road?

What will you do when I post quotes from the Obama Administration saying exactly that?

Go for it.

And I'll say the same to you. If you want to discuss the bill and what is contained within it, fine. Otherwise, have fun arguing with yourself.

ahh! semantics again from a dishonest fuck known as a democrat.. so just cause it "written" in the bill you think it will come to pass? so explain how your democrat in charge is going to prevent illegals from getting health insurance, he can't keep them now from buying homes, stealing ss cards, getting driver's license and etc etc etc,, so until you get real in the real world you can go preach to someone else. you have been asked numerous times how it will work,, and you cannot answer,, so I have no doubts that illegals will get care and that seniors because of ther age will be denied care,, now can you guarantee me it will be otherwise,, that no senior will be denied care and that no illegal will get care??? wellcanyahuh?

 

[Emma]

I'm 'unsubscribing' this thread. Perhaps I can find one where someone wants to discuss what is actually contained within the bill itself. Not likely, but hope springs eternal, eh?

Y'all have fun scaring each other.

 

[Political Junky]

watched the show on friday with a guy who was the pr man/heavy insider for insurance and he spoke volumes on what is going on with healthcare today and the plans in congress...here is a partial transcript with some of the better highlights:


BILL MOYERS: Why is public insurance, a public option, so fiercely opposed by the industry?

WENDELL POTTER: The industry doesn't want to have any competitor. In fact, over the course of the last few years, has been shrinking the number of competitors through a lot of acquisitions and mergers. So first of all, they don't want any more competition period. They certainly don't want it from a government plan that might be operating more efficiently than they are, that they operate. The Medicare program that we have here is a government-run program that has administrative expenses that are like three percent or so.

BILL MOYERS: Compared to the industry's--

WENDELL POTTER: They spend about 20 cents of every premium dollar on overhead, which is administrative expense or profit. So they don't want to compete against a more efficient competitor.

BILL MOYERS: You told Congress that the industry has hijacked our health care system and turned it into a giant ATM for Wall Street. You said, "I saw how they confuse their customers and dump the sick, all so they can satisfy their Wall Street investors." How do they satisfy their Wall Street investors?

WENDELL POTTER: Well, there's a measure of profitability that investors look to, and it's called a medical loss ratio. And it's unique to the health insurance industry. And by medical loss ratio, I mean that it's a measure that tells investors or anyone else how much of a premium dollar is used by the insurance company to actually pay medical claims. And that has been shrinking, over the years, since the industry's been dominated by, or become dominated by for-profit insurance companies. Back in the early '90s, or back during the time that the Clinton plan was being debated, 95 cents out of every dollar was sent, you know, on average was used by the insurance companies to pay claims. Last year, it was down to just slightly above 80 percent.

So, investors want that to keep shrinking. And if they see that an insurance company has not done what they think meets their expectations with the medical loss ratio, they'll punish them. Investors will start leaving in droves.

I've seen a company stock price fall 20 percent in a single day, when it did not meet Wall Street's expectations with this medical loss ratio.

BILL MOYERS: And they do what to make sure that they keep diminishing the medical loss ratio?

WENDELL POTTER: Rescission is one thing. Denying claims is another. Being, you know, really careful as they review claims, particularly for things like liver transplants, to make sure, from their point of view, that it really is medically necessary and not experimental. That's one thing. And that was that issue in the Nataline Sarkisyan case.

But another way is to purge employer accounts, that-- if a small business has an employee, for example, who suddenly has have a lot of treatment, or is in an accident. And medical bills are piling up, and this employee is filing claims with the insurance company. That'll be noticed by the insurance company.

And when that business is up for renewal, and it typically is up, once a year, up for renewal, the underwriters will look at that. And they'll say, "We need to jack up the rates here, because the experience was," when I say experience, the claim experience, the number of claims filed was more than we anticipated. So we need to jack up the price. Jack up the premiums. Often they'll do this, knowing that the employer will have no alternative but to leave. And that happens all the time.

BILL MOYERS: So, the more of my premium that goes to my health claims, pays for my medical coverage, the less money the company makes.

WENDELL POTTER: That's right. Exactly right.

BILL MOYERS: So they want to reverse that. They don't want my premium to go for my health care, right?

WENDELL POTTER: Exactly right. They--

BILL MOYERS: Where does it go?

WENDELL POTTER: Well, a big chunk of it goes into shareholders' pockets. It's returned to them as part of the investment to them. It goes into the exorbitant salaries that a lot of the executives make. It goes into paying sales, marketing, and underwriting expenses. So a lot of it goes to pay those kinds of administrative functions. Overhead.

BILL MOYERS: When a member of Congress asked the three executives who appeared before the committee-- if they would end the practice of canceling policies for sick enrollees, they refused. Why did they refuse?

WENDELL POTTER: Well, they were talking to Wall Street at that moment. They were saying that because-- I guess they might have to spend some additional dollars to be more vigilant, to make sure that they were not rescinding a policy inappropriately. It makes no sense. The only reason they would have said that is to cover themselves and to send a signal to Wall Street that you know, we're going to continue business as usual here.

BILL MOYERS: You know, I've been around a long time. And I have to say, I just don't get this. I just don't understand how the corporations can oppose a plan that gives the unhealthy people a chance to be covered. And they don't want to do it themselves.

WENDELL POTTER: Well, keep in mind, what they want to do is enhance their profits. Enhance shareholder value. That's number one. And the way that the business that they're in is health care, certainly. But their primary motivation is to reward their shareholders.

Bill Moyers Journal . Transcripts | PBS

I saw that interview. Apparently, Wendell Potter's conscience won out.
So cool that he's speaking out against the insurance industry.

 

[Emma]

Are you 100% positive you want to go down this road?

What will you do when I post quotes from the Obama Administration saying exactly that?

Go for it.

And I'll say the same to you. If you want to discuss the bill and what is contained within it, fine. Otherwise, have fun arguing with yourself.

ahh! semantics again from a dishonest fuck known as a democrat.. so just cause it "written" in the bill you think it will come to pass? so explain how your democrat in charge is going to prevent illegals from getting health insurance, he can't keep them now from buying homes, stealing ss cards, getting driver's license and etc etc etc,, so until you get real in the real world you can go preach to someone else. you have been asked numerous times how it will work,, and you cannot answer,, so I have no doubts that illegals will get care and that seniors because of ther age will be denied care,, now can you guarantee me it will be otherwise,, that no senior will be denied care and that no illegal will get care??? wellcanyahuh?

I'm not a Democrat, numbnuts.

 

[WillowTree]

I'm 'unsubscribing' this thread. Perhaps I can find one where someone wants to discuss what is actually contained within the bill itself. Not likely, but hope springs eternal, eh?

Y'all have fun scaring each other.

yeah baby good luck cause we all know that what a democrat puts in a bill and what he is gonna do is just full of the same thing you are bullshit,, if they were serious that illegals were not to get care they would not have voted no on the Heller amendment.. so go suck you a lemon.. or offer your gurantees whichever feels most comfortable.

 

[Political Junky]

Why the fuck won't Nancy Pelosi answer the question Em? She always avoids answering if abortions will be federally funded (you know they will. I know they will so let's quit pretending)?

According to the Dems, old people get too much care in this nation and they have to put an end to that

I don't give a shit who wants federally funded abortions. Other than for exceptions regarding protecting the health/life of the mother, something like that will never be allowed to be included in the bill.

And as far as "according to the Dems, old people get too much care in this nation and they have to put an end to that", you can provide proof of that statement, I'm sure.

Are you 100% positive you want to go down this road?

What will you do when I post quotes from the Obama Administration saying exactly that?

Please, post it.

 

[GHook93]

There will be cost savings to the doctors

(1) Less administrative people: My aunt works in a doctors office and nearly her sole duties is fighting with the insurance companies to pay up! There are more than a few people doing this. All plans call for a more streamline process. These people (sorry auntie) can be eliminated.
(2) Collection Services: Nearly all hospitals have internal collection efforts (although they suck), that are very expenses. With UHC, this is eliminated
(3) Unpaid bills: Medical bills are one of the leading causes of BK! In translations, doctors have a large unpaid accounts. Guess what this is a huge hit to them and a constant struggle, which is eliminated with UHC.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

April 19: Summers, roundtable - Meet the Press- msnbc.com

MR. GREGORY: All right, well, you talk about transparency, and you just brought up the issue of, of a health care program. What the president is proposing is a universal health care program that won't increase the deficit, and yet the projections are that this is a program that would cost at least a trillion dollars. Where will the money come from to fund such an ambitious program without impacting the deficit?

DR. SUMMERS: The president's laid out a number of measures on the tax side and in--and much more importantly, a number of measures that involve taking costs out of the Medicare, the Medicare budget. But the really important issue for the long run, David, is changing the way in which we deliver health care in this country. You know, there have been a whole set of studies done, they look at health care, the frequency of different procedures, whether it's tonsillectomies or hysterectomies in different parts of the country, and what you see is that in some parts of the country procedures are done three times as frequently and there's no benefit in terms of the health of the population. And by doing the right kind of cost-effectiveness, by making the right kinds of investments and protection, some experts that we--estimate that we could take as much as $700 billion a year out of our health care system.

Larry Summer favors denying health care.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Jan. 31, 2009 in the British medical journal Lancet,

On March 19, Emanuel was appointed to the Federal Coordinating Council on Comparative Effectiveness Research, to begin the design of a Federal system for withdrawing care from those chosen for death.

"When implemented, the complete lives system produces a priority curve on which individuals aged between roughly 15 and 40 years get the most substantial chance, whereas the youngest and oldest people get chances that are attenuated...broad consensus favours adolescents over very young infants, and young adults over very elderly people."

Obama to Old people: Fuck Off and Die so we can fund Abortions and Give Health Care to Illegal Aliens