Socialist Health Plan? In Norway, Obama's Plan Not Even Close

Discussion in 'Healthcare/Insurance/Govt Healthcare' started by Life_Long_Dem!, Aug 3, 2009.

  1. Life_Long_Dem!
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    Life_Long_Dem! Member

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    If Michael Steele and the Republicans really believe that President Obama is proposing a socialist health plan, they need to get out more.

    I've just returned from a research trip to Norway, where their universal health system really is socialist. It's also much less expensive than the current U.S. system, so maybe the Republicans would like it if they checked it out. The non-socialists in Norway support it because it works so well, especially compared with "the bad old days" of private medicine, when even the doctors' association advocated for socialized medicine as the only affordable way to make quality care available to all Norwegians.

    One reason Norwegians like their system is that it's pro- economic innovation because it's not tied to the employer. Norwegians are free to change jobs for more challenging opportunities, or try their wings as entrepreneurs, because they don't have to worry about insurance - it's with them wherever they go. Economist Jonathan Gruber of MIT is one of many economists who believe that U.S. employer-tied health insurance is a drag on progress. But Obama's plan accepts the status quo even though it might not be affordable.

    Norwegians like their system because it cuts red tape. The patient-doctor relationship isn't complicated by multiple insurances; if you need care, you get it as a matter of right. No bills to pay, no plans to juggle, no worry about your dependents, and no worry about your becoming a burden to your children.

    Because Norwegians are practical, they enjoy saving money for quality health care. On a per capita basis, Norwegians spend $4,763 per year, and cover everyone, while U.S.'ers spend $7,290. By various standards of health quality, like life expectancy or rate of preventable deaths, Norway does better than the U.S. One key measure is physicians per capita: the U.S. has 2.43 physicians compared with Norway's 4 doctors per 1,000 population, even though Norway spends a third less of its Gross Domestic Product on health care than the U.S. does. (These numbers are from Bruce Bartlett, Forbes magazine columnist who was a former U.S. Treasury Department economist.)

    While in Norway I did hear complaints - Norwegians famously believe everything can work better than it does - but I didn't interview anyone, from left wing to right wing, who would change the basic system. Maybe it's time for U.S. politicians to learn from what other countries are doing right.
    Socialist Health Plan? In Norway, Obama's Plan Not Even Close | CommonDreams.org
     
  2. Political Junky
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    Political Junky Gold Member

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    Another country that's happy with its healthcare. Are they more deserving that we in the US?
     
  3. Big Black Dog
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    Big Black Dog Gold Member Supporting Member

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    Say what you will about Obama's idiotic plans for our health care in this country. The government has not been able to manage Social Security and Medicare - Republicans and Democrats alike. They couldn't even manage this cash for clunkers deal. I don't want the government fooling around with my medical care and yours either. They have no business doing it. They don't know how to do it. They don't even have the money to do it. All it will do is grow the government more and cost you yet a bit more of your freedoms that seems to be inching away more and more every day. I have a novel idea for our government. Let's try following the Constitution for a change.
     
  4. Political Junky
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    Political Junky Gold Member

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    Your con senator and health insurance man must be so proud of you.
     
  5. CrusaderFrank
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    CrusaderFrank Diamond Member

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    Did Norway cause a massive die off of their elderly to fund the program like Obama wants to?
     
  6. auditor0007
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    auditor0007 Gold Member

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    In the end, they will make some changes to help a few at much too high of a cost. Basically, nothing will change. One important issue is the fact that health insurance is tied to employers. This isn't working. Whether you want to look at a system like that in Norway, which is run by the government, or such as the one in Switzerland that is almost completely in private hands, their success is based on the fact that employers are not involved. The burden is on the individual, either through taxes or by paying their own way and having lower income earners subsidized as in the Swiss system.

    In the end, the current system will collapse, and eventually, we will revamp healthcare completely. Even those who now support our current system will realize that it is unsustainable. Until then, we will continue paying more and more for our healthcare, and American businesses will faulter due to the extemely high cost of healthcare.
     
  7. auditor0007
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    auditor0007 Gold Member

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    That is really fear mongering idiot talk. If you really believe the Dems want all the old people to die, all I can do is laugh at you. There are plenty of good arguments against the currently proposed plan. There really is no need to try the scare tactics. Instead, how about discussing some solutions?
     
  8. Political Junky
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    Political Junky Gold Member

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    I trust you mother never used Medicare or cashes a Social Security check.
     
  9. CrusaderFrank
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    CrusaderFrank Diamond Member

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    "...empowers us to decide fairly whom to save when genuine scarcity makes saving everyone impossible"

    No, not Josef Mengele, it's Ezeikel Emanuel
     
  10. CrusaderFrank
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    CrusaderFrank Diamond Member

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    Pay more fucking attention to who is advising Obama
     

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