Bible as the "word of God".

[emilynghiem]

Me personally? I also believe that God is too large to be contained in any one set of beliefs, one book, or one dogma.

As far as the whole Bible being the actual Word of God? I doubt it.

The only books of the Bible that have any chance of being the actual Word of God are the first 5 books of the Old Testament. The rest of the OT is actually a written history of the Jews. Ask them about it sometime, because after all, the OT is kinda their book.

The New Testament? Even Matthew, Mark, Luke and John have some discrepancies in how they tell the story of Jesus. Granted, the base story is the same, but there are details that they can't seem to agree on, so basically, those writers are just giving their take on how they saw things go down.

The rest of the NT? Mainly a bunch of stories telling mankind how to live with each other.

Do I think that the Bible contains the Word of God? Some of it, but certainly not all of it, because some of the Word of God is contained in other books like the Tao Te Ching and the teachings of Buddha.

God is too large to be contained in just one religion, dogma, belief system or book.

Hi Luddy Neddite:
Even if God has no religion,
people have their religions, these are their languages.

Just like you align with the liberals and Democrats as your language for the laws,
and nobody should take your religion away from you, and tell you you can't have your way of believing and expressing your social or political beliefs.

Especially if you don't believe in God, that means you are only dealing with people.
so if people all have their own religions, I guess we need to accept and work with that!
It's people's ways of communicating, organizing in like groups, and establishing and living by what they believe.

Why not let everyone have their own culture, their own beliefs religious or political.

When are we going to grow up and quit trying to bully people for their ways and just let each govern themselves and quit imposing back and forth on other groups. That's what I'd like to see.

If we don't want other people forcing their political or religious beliefs on us,
telling us we need to change or "give it up"
why would we expect them to change or "give it up" by bullying by coersion or exclusion?

If we want our free will and our free choice/consent respected,
why can't we see the other people and groups want that, too?
the fear of control or coercion by the other groups is MUTUAL?

If we want due process, to be assumed innocent until proven guilty or right until proven wrong,
WHY do we go around assuming the OTHER side is the opposite:
they are wrong until proven otherwise, or guilty of X Y Z until this is corrected.

We want the right to defend our own interests and views, but then attack the others in preemptive strikes.
How long before we get past the tribal warfare stage, the opening scenes of 2001
where one tribe beats an opposing member to death with a bone to scare off the other tribe.

Gee whiz, if there is evolution, where is it?

 

[irosie91]

I have already realized----that you are not very intelligent ----
your thinking is childish in the sense that you get into
what child pyschologists have termed
"magical thinking" --------see Piaget

Suffer the little children to come unto me ~ Jesus

rosie, how rude. I was always considered very quick in school!
Here is magical thinking in 4 dimensions, " No way He just showed up out of nowhere, and disappeared at will!!!!"
Here is scientific thinking in 10 or an infinite # of dimensions, " # 6!!!! "

thanks for the review----I see you got that one right on the SAT's------intelligent children engage in LOTS of magical
thinking when they are four years old----see piaget. ------
simple stuff------Piaget is so important in the deveopement
of child psychology----that he is mentioned even in high
school textbooks------now do you remember?

Dear irosie91
do you agree with the psychological terms of
superego, ego and id
mind body and spirit

is it the spiritual part you disagree with

what do you call the level of life energy that connects people
do you believe in a collective sense of conscience
collective humanity
collective truth

whatever you call the collective level of knowledge and
conscience or connection with "all humanity"

that is the equivalent of the level of God, the Kingdom of God,
or Christ joining people in the spirit of love, truth, justice

Do you believe in people having a social conscience,
a connection by laws of justice?

that is what it means to feel compelled or committed to
follow Christ, to feel commissioned to live by, embrace and embody the
laws by conscience, to be fully responsible for justice yourself

what a JOKE you are-----"do you 'believe" in freud's construct-----ego , superego and Id? It is a construct
of a very brilliant mind-----that of Sigmund Freud- If I told
you that lately it is being repudiated by the scientists called
"PSYCHIATRISTS" would you be shocked. Psychiatry as
developed by such geniuses as FREUD,, CHARCOT etc etc is not a RELIGION demanding "BELIEF"-------it is based on theory-----gee you are dim

Hi irosie
I don't agree with Freud that it's sexual, that was added later to his theories.

I do agree there are Spiritual ties to both parents, psychologically.

Every person I've ever met
Inherited patterns and biases from their parents or past generations they either carried or overcame, including addictive or abusive cycles that pass down:
* communication skills passed down from our mothers side of the family
* perception of authority and control passed down from our fathers side of the family

In short, irosie91, you can read into anyones psychology by looking into their mommy issues or daddy issues to see where they are coming from.

Whatever fears they have will bias their sense of communication, control and change.

This is old wisdom irosie, nothing new. The Bible says to honor our mothers and fathers that our days on earth will be long. Respecting and building from the past does affect our health on all levels - body mind and spirit.

So you are right, a lot of modern psychiatry totally misses the mark and makes money off problems

That is not what I believe in either.

But I'm wise enough to see the common sense that we inherit both good and bad from both parents, and every person on the planet was born of a man and a woman and this influences who we are and how we communicate and relate to others.

I hope you are discerning enough to see this part is true, even if we both agree the majority is junk science for profit. That is very harmful and will have to be overhauled. I'm glad we both agree that garbage is false. But it doesn't take away from the patterns and process that are true: forgiveness that brings healing is the common factor in effective therapy that breaks people out of abusive or addictive patterns repeated from the past. That part is universally true, and I wish more psychiatrists would study this like Scott Peck did when he discovered deliverance really worked and started using it to treat and cure schizophrenic patients to get rid of demonic voices and obsessions that made them sick. That's where I see psychiatry heading, is researching and developing early diagnosis and treatment based on spiritual healing. Thanks irosie, glad you brought this up!

thanks Emily-----I am sure you are a very nice person ----but in reference to
the field of medicine called "psychiatry' you are IN OVER YOUR HEAD----

ps----When it comes to freud---give
up----you just don't know

btw what does "I don't agree with Freud that it's sexual....."
mean other than being a demonstration that you know nothing
about the theories of Freud

 

[Avatar4321]

Me personally? I also believe that God is too large to be contained in any one set of beliefs, one book, or one dogma.

As far as the whole Bible being the actual Word of God? I doubt it.

The only books of the Bible that have any chance of being the actual Word of God are the first 5 books of the Old Testament. The rest of the OT is actually a written history of the Jews. Ask them about it sometime, because after all, the OT is kinda their book.

The New Testament? Even Matthew, Mark, Luke and John have some discrepancies in how they tell the story of Jesus. Granted, the base story is the same, but there are details that they can't seem to agree on, so basically, those writers are just giving their take on how they saw things go down.

The rest of the NT? Mainly a bunch of stories telling mankind how to live with each other.

Do I think that the Bible contains the Word of God? Some of it, but certainly not all of it, because some of the Word of God is contained in other books like the Tao Te Ching and the teachings of Buddha.

God is too large to be contained in just one religion, dogma, belief system or book.

going to need a citation for that one. Gandhi loved religion

 

[emilynghiem]

Suffer the little children to come unto me ~ Jesus

rosie, how rude. I was always considered very quick in school!
Here is magical thinking in 4 dimensions, " No way He just showed up out of nowhere, and disappeared at will!!!!"
Here is scientific thinking in 10 or an infinite # of dimensions, " # 6!!!! "

thanks for the review----I see you got that one right on the SAT's------intelligent children engage in LOTS of magical
thinking when they are four years old----see piaget. ------
simple stuff------Piaget is so important in the deveopement
of child psychology----that he is mentioned even in high
school textbooks------now do you remember?

Dear irosie91
do you agree with the psychological terms of
superego, ego and id
mind body and spirit

is it the spiritual part you disagree with

what do you call the level of life energy that connects people
do you believe in a collective sense of conscience
collective humanity
collective truth

whatever you call the collective level of knowledge and
conscience or connection with "all humanity"

that is the equivalent of the level of God, the Kingdom of God,
or Christ joining people in the spirit of love, truth, justice

Do you believe in people having a social conscience,
a connection by laws of justice?

that is what it means to feel compelled or committed to
follow Christ, to feel commissioned to live by, embrace and embody the
laws by conscience, to be fully responsible for justice yourself

what a JOKE you are-----"do you 'believe" in freud's construct-----ego , superego and Id? It is a construct
of a very brilliant mind-----that of Sigmund Freud- If I told
you that lately it is being repudiated by the scientists called
"PSYCHIATRISTS" would you be shocked. Psychiatry as
developed by such geniuses as FREUD,, CHARCOT etc etc is not a RELIGION demanding "BELIEF"-------it is based on theory-----gee you are dim

Hi irosie
I don't agree with Freud that it's sexual, that was added later to his theories.

I do agree there are Spiritual ties to both parents, psychologically.

Every person I've ever met
Inherited patterns and biases from their parents or past generations they either carried or overcame, including addictive or abusive cycles that pass down:
* communication skills passed down from our mothers side of the family
* perception of authority and control passed down from our fathers side of the family

In short, irosie91, you can read into anyones psychology by looking into their mommy issues or daddy issues to see where they are coming from.

Whatever fears they have will bias their sense of communication, control and change.

This is old wisdom irosie, nothing new. The Bible says to honor our mothers and fathers that our days on earth will be long. Respecting and building from the past does affect our health on all levels - body mind and spirit.

So you are right, a lot of modern psychiatry totally misses the mark and makes money off problems

That is not what I believe in either.

But I'm wise enough to see the common sense that we inherit both good and bad from both parents, and every person on the planet was born of a man and a woman and this influences who we are and how we communicate and relate to others.

I hope you are discerning enough to see this part is true, even if we both agree the majority is junk science for profit. That is very harmful and will have to be overhauled. I'm glad we both agree that garbage is false. But it doesn't take away from the patterns and process that are true: forgiveness that brings healing is the common factor in effective therapy that breaks people out of abusive or addictive patterns repeated from the past. That part is universally true, and I wish more psychiatrists would study this like Scott Peck did when he discovered deliverance really worked and started using it to treat and cure schizophrenic patients to get rid of demonic voices and obsessions that made them sick. That's where I see psychiatry heading, is researching and developing early diagnosis and treatment based on spiritual healing. Thanks irosie, glad you brought this up!

thanks Emily-----I am sure you are a very nice person ----but in reference to
the field of medicine called "psychiatry' you are IN OVER YOUR HEAD----

ps----When it comes to freud---give
up----you just don't know

btw what does "I don't agree with Freud that it's sexual....."
mean other than being a demonstration that you know nothing
about the theories of Freud

Ok so let's try the opposite approach.
Why not spell out what you see as true and beneficial to know about human nature, psychology and social development.

And then I can pinpoint where i agree with you or disagree, and we can have the same discussion starting from your perspective and understanding.

How do you describe the human learning curve and where humanity is in our stages of growth to reach maturity?

 

[emilynghiem]

Me personally? I also believe that God is too large to be contained in any one set of beliefs, one book, or one dogma.

As far as the whole Bible being the actual Word of God? I doubt it.

The only books of the Bible that have any chance of being the actual Word of God are the first 5 books of the Old Testament. The rest of the OT is actually a written history of the Jews. Ask them about it sometime, because after all, the OT is kinda their book.

The New Testament? Even Matthew, Mark, Luke and John have some discrepancies in how they tell the story of Jesus. Granted, the base story is the same, but there are details that they can't seem to agree on, so basically, those writers are just giving their take on how they saw things go down.

The rest of the NT? Mainly a bunch of stories telling mankind how to live with each other.

Do I think that the Bible contains the Word of God? Some of it, but certainly not all of it, because some of the Word of God is contained in other books like the Tao Te Ching and the teachings of Buddha.

God is too large to be contained in just one religion, dogma, belief system or book.

going to need a citation for that one. Gandhi loved religion

Did he teach that all rivers lead to the same ocean? He is credited with the quote to be the change we want to see in the world, so if people don't like being rejected and bullied it might make sense to quit partaking in same.

(Also I found out the teaching to love the sinner but hate the sin might be credited to Gandhi not the Bible.)

Personally I like the saying "my karma just ran over your dogma", but don't know the source on that either!

 

[The Irish Ram]

Em, you are such a sweetheart.

 

[Penelope]

Is an insult to God. At least the Higher Power, Creator I believe in.

The Bible is a representation of the spiritual writings, letters, stories, and mythologies of early Mesopotamia.

It contains many powerful and inspiring stories. But it also contains evidence of a brutal and inhuman society that stoned people to death, treated women as property, and owned slaves...

The Old Testament portrays God as a pissy old man wondering around the desert, playing cruel jokes on his people... "kill your son... just kidding!"

We humans are limited in our imaginations, in that we always portray our God's in human form.

The bible is an imperfect collection of early writings, that can all too easily be manipulated to Man's ill-will. The Bible has been used to justify so many awful things, God's word? Hardly.

nut ----without addressing the "God's word" issue----I would say that you do not appreciate very very fine literature. Do you have a similarly low opinion of THE ODYSSEY?--------how about
the Hindu GITA? I consider the bible to be SUBLIME

Even the NT there Irosie?

 

[irosie91]

Is an insult to God. At least the Higher Power, Creator I believe in.

The Bible is a representation of the spiritual writings, letters, stories, and mythologies of early Mesopotamia.

It contains many powerful and inspiring stories. But it also contains evidence of a brutal and inhuman society that stoned people to death, treated women as property, and owned slaves...

The Old Testament portrays God as a pissy old man wondering around the desert, playing cruel jokes on his people... "kill your son... just kidding!"

We humans are limited in our imaginations, in that we always portray our God's in human form.

The bible is an imperfect collection of early writings, that can all too easily be manipulated to Man's ill-will. The Bible has been used to justify so many awful things, God's word? Hardly.

nut ----without addressing the "God's word" issue----I would say that you do not appreciate very very fine literature. Do you have a similarly low opinion of THE ODYSSEY?--------how about
the Hindu GITA? I consider the bible to be SUBLIME

Even the NT there Irosie?

some of the chapters-----in sum----not at all as sublime as the
book you call "the old testament" ----I consider the letters
written by Paul to be the work of a psychotic mind-----I have
no idea what to make of the book of revulsions

 

[emilynghiem]

Is an insult to God. At least the Higher Power, Creator I believe in.

The Bible is a representation of the spiritual writings, letters, stories, and mythologies of early Mesopotamia.

It contains many powerful and inspiring stories. But it also contains evidence of a brutal and inhuman society that stoned people to death, treated women as property, and owned slaves...

The Old Testament portrays God as a pissy old man wondering around the desert, playing cruel jokes on his people... "kill your son... just kidding!"

We humans are limited in our imaginations, in that we always portray our God's in human form.

The bible is an imperfect collection of early writings, that can all too easily be manipulated to Man's ill-will. The Bible has been used to justify so many awful things, God's word? Hardly.

nut ----without addressing the "God's word" issue----I would say that you do not appreciate very very fine literature. Do you have a similarly low opinion of THE ODYSSEY?--------how about
the Hindu GITA? I consider the bible to be SUBLIME

Even the NT there Irosie?

some of the chapters-----in sum----not at all as sublime as the
book you call "the old testament" ----I consider the letters
written by Paul to be the work of a psychotic mind-----I have
no idea what to make of the book of revulsions

Dear irosie91: One of the best explanations of the Bible I ever heard
came from a Buddhist monk, and it is short:
the Old Testament is about living by the letter of the law
and the New Testament is about living by the spirit of the law.

Simply profound. I love this, and it has helped me so much.
I hope it helps put things in perspective.

To tell you the honest truth, I never understood the Bible, Jesus
or Christianity the way it was traditionally taught. After deeper searching
I finally found Christian pastors whose views of God were broad enough
to include atheists in salvation and heaven, and Buddhists who don't
reject Christianity or the Bible but can even explain it better in some ways,
like that monk did. The right interpretation will resolve conflicts; it's when
we take parts out of context, any religion can become confused or abused.

irosie I think you have a very deep strong conscience and conviction to seek truth
and not to compromise. this is a great strength but it comes with a price:
it may cause conflict and struggle, even frustration for you to be subject to the insanity and illogic of others,
but the greater effort it takes, the greater the reward when you figure out the meaning that makes sense to you.

I applaud your effort to make sense of the Bible, as you are surely braver than I.
I avoided it because I thought it didn't apply, and by the time I understood the message
was universal, I freaked out and was furious that nobody had ever explained that to me.
It could have saved me so much pain and suffering, but I never got it the way people
explained using symbolism. I needed the secular explanation and had to work that out myself.

I think you are in a better position than I was, because I had no background to go on.
I think if I wrote out the experiences I had, the struggles I went through to,
you would weep for me, and be glad you weren't me! You wouldn't be revulsed,
I think you would laugh!

Best wishes to you, and I believe you will not only find the right answers, but will be better able
to explain to others what you figure out, and help a lot more people who struggle with the same!

If anything I went through can help you not to suffer the same, I would gladly share.
But from your responses it seems you are already better off than me, and can understand other people explaining it, where I was completely lost. The Book of Revelations made me cry because I was having similar visions of the future in symbols and didn't understand why that was happening to me when I was not Christian and never studied the Bible. absolutely frightening and would not wish that on anyone. At least here, you are not alone.

Take care irosie, I think you are on the right track and in the right place to share with a lot of
different people who can explain in different ways. You also have insights to offer, so that
will help a lot of people, too! the process is two-way, where you give and take equally, as much as you learn from others they also learn from you, so everyone benefits and grows.
I'm glad you're here, and you do not suffer the drama and mess I went through to
understand what was going on with Jesus and the Bible. If I didn't laugh, I would cry, it was so awful! Be glad you are you, not me.

Yours truly,
Emily

 

[irosie91]

Emily----the statement "the old testament is about living by the letter of the law and the new testament is about living by the spirit of the law" is utter bullshit. If some
Buddhist said it----it is because he never read either book or may have his education
from an Episcopalian sunday school with Nazi tendencies-----in fact it is standard
Nazi propaganda-----the kind of stuff that galvanized genocides. He certainly does not know HISTORY. PS---you have no idea what my background is other than that which I have posted which is-------I was born in the USA to two jewish parents
born in the USA. It is wrong of you to ASSUME you know something just based
on that scanty information

 

[emilynghiem]

Emily----the statement "the old testament is about living by the letter of the law and the new testament is about living by the spirit of the law" is utter bullshit. If some
Buddhist said it----it is because he never read either book or may have his education
from an Episcopalian sunday school with Nazi tendencies-----in fact it is standard
Nazi propaganda-----the kind of stuff that galvanized genocides. He certainly does not know HISTORY. PS---you have no idea what my background is other than that which I have posted which is-------I was born in the USA to two jewish parents
born in the USA. It is wrong of you to ASSUME you know something just based
on that scanty information

Hi irosie:
What you said above is in keeping with
the history of the OT that shows the genocide death and destruction
caused by living by the letter of the law, by competing for control over people by material means.

The whole point of the NT is to liberate humanity from this vicious cycle of destruction.

I think you get the OT but don't see how anything is changed or reformed by the NT.
Penelope has a good point, that is where something is missing.

B. as for coming from a Jewish family that's fine, too.

Peter Loth is a Holocaust survivor who still considers himself Jewish
yet teaches the message of Christianity and forgiveness as bringing
healing and redemption for humanity as in the NT. he uses his life story to teach
the transforming power of forgiveness through Christ, Yeshua as Messiah.

Peter Loth Peace by Piece

I know personal friends of Peter Loth, if you want to ask personally
about him: My friend Olivia and Irvin Reiner are both Jewish and support Christian healing
prayer outreach for over 35 years and have no problem with either Jewish or
Christian. I even introduced an atheist who believes and teaches "abundance of free grace"
to bring healing to people that is consistent with Christianity. there is no conflict as long as people can forgive, and let the spirit of truth justice and peace flow through, it's all part of sharing and growing together. Even the Bahai teach the oneness of humanity which is what Christians call building the church or the Kingdom of God as peace for all people as one.

Bernie Glassman is a Jewish Buddhist peacemaker who works with people of all faiths or no faith at all. here is his website if you like his nonchristian approach better:
Zen Peacemakers

Maybe irosie if you need to hear this from a Jewish perspective, maybe my friend Olivia can help you faster. She went through a lot herself, when her husband's family, especially his Jewish father did not understand any of this and thought it was wrong. They even held a funeral for their son Irvin when he first married Olivia, thinking he was dead and they lost their son. it took years of struggle to work it out and everything was understood and agreed upon. I hope and pray you don't have it as bad as Olivia did, she had hot water thrown in her face, and was called names, it was horrible. Now she laughs at it, and she works with plenty of other Jewish and Christian people without that same battle she went through.

irosie I think you will end up being a very good teacher and leader once you get the
issues resolved where you see there is insanity and nonsense passed off as religion.
It is infuriating and tragic that there has been so much war over religion, when the real message is about saving grace, healing of humanity and peace. Of course it is outrageous and insane!

You are wonderful, thank you in advance!
if you want to call my friend Olivia: 713 829 0899 which is posted publicly on
her websites and mine. I think you are one of the special people like Olivia called from the Jewish tribe.
you have very special work to do, so it is important that you stand and support each other, it's a lot of work.
if there is anything I can do to help you, let me know

 

[irosie91]

Emily----the statement "the old testament is about living by the letter of the law and the new testament is about living by the spirit of the law" is utter bullshit. If some
Buddhist said it----it is because he never read either book or may have his education
from an Episcopalian sunday school with Nazi tendencies-----in fact it is standard
Nazi propaganda-----the kind of stuff that galvanized genocides. He certainly does not know HISTORY. PS---you have no idea what my background is other than that which I have posted which is-------I was born in the USA to two jewish parents
born in the USA. It is wrong of you to ASSUME you know something just based
on that scanty information

 

[emilynghiem]

Emily----the statement "the old testament is about living by the letter of the law and the new testament is about living by the spirit of the law" is utter bullshit. If some
Buddhist said it----it is because he never read either book or may have his education
from an Episcopalian sunday school with Nazi tendencies-----in fact it is standard
Nazi propaganda-----the kind of stuff that galvanized genocides. He certainly does not know HISTORY. PS---you have no idea what my background is other than that which I have posted which is-------I was born in the USA to two jewish parents
born in the USA. It is wrong of you to ASSUME you know something just based
on that scanty information

Hi irosie91 this post looks identical to the one I just replied to.
since I am no use to you, I posted links to people with a Jewish background that might understand where you are coming from.
I thought one of their approaches might make more sense to you than how I approach things from a secular gentile background.

Overall I see that what you posted, both times,
fits in with why the OT letter of the law Doesn't Work but leads to genocidal destruction.
that's what is wrong when people fight over political control, they abuse the letter of the law to hang each other!

so all this death and destruction is from that abuse.

the point of the NT is to restore the Spirit of the Law
to establish Truth and Justice to bring Peace.

So you are right, things go wrong when people live like they did in the OT.
And we still see this today.

The cycle of abuse and war from the past continues,
people keep invoking retributive justice so the havoc repeats.

The point is to break this cycle of injustice
and seek healing corrections and peace to stop the insanity.

so this is what is meant by the NT and living by the spirit of the laws,
by love of truth, love of justice with mercy, love of humanity and peace for all.

=============

In short true Christianity means true Charity (ie not seeking reward but purely for sharing love of humanity) and false Christianity is the false type that does have conditions attached
and judges people as unequal based on those conditions and expected rewards.

Christ Jesus represents "Restorative Justice":

To explain the story of humanity summarized in the Bible, it helps to distinguish the difference between the Old and New Testaments, which determines if the rest will make sense at all, or even needs to be read.

In short, the Old Testament records the tragic history of living by the "letter of the law" and retributive justice, causing death and genocidal destruction by greed, while the New Testament paints a positive future for humanity, with renewed love of life and relationships by restorative justice, living by the "spirit of the law" for lasting peace.

The key difference between these paths is divine forgiveness, which breaks the cycle of retribution inherited from previous generations. Without forgiveness, suffering repeats, projected forward. However, by receiving forgiveness and correction, where Jesus represents the spiritual process of embracing equal justice, humanity finds liberation from past strife by establishing universal truth, justice, and peace on earth. Thus, human nature is destined to reach maturity in mind, body, and spirit, collectively symbolized by the Holy Trinity.

Salvation in Jesus represents restorative justice with mercy, bringing healing grace to end conflicts. Reconciling local laws among individuals with universal laws on a global scale fulfills both in perfect harmony or marriage between people, as the bride or church, united with the authority of law or state.

The story of sacrifice and redemption represents the spiritual process each individual experiences to grow in life -- through trials, failures, and recovery -- which drives humanity to reach spiritual understanding, wholeness, and peace.

 

[Muslim75]

Hello to all.

I speak as a Muslim. I do not see how the Bible can be God's word. Since it is a set of writings assembled before Jesus and some time after him, (peace on him), it can not possibly be the word of God, unaltered, unchanged, uncorrupted. We can not expect that in the 2nd or 3rd century, let alone in the 21st century. Great Jesus was a man of purity and so were his helpers, but before them and after them there were only normal human beings who could rearrange the words of God (if any) to fit their own agendas. This I say in all logic. It confirms what I say, that those who are considered saints in Christianity apparently fail to feature the saintly attributes.

 

[emilynghiem]

Hello to all.

I speak as a Muslim. I do not see how the Bible can be God's word. Since it is a set of writings assembled before Jesus and some time after him, (peace on him), it can not possibly be the word of God, unaltered, unchanged, uncorrupted. We can not expect that in the 2nd or 3rd century, let alone in the 21st century. Great Jesus was a man of purity and so were his helpers, but before them and after them there were only normal human beings who could rearrange the words of God (if any) to fit their own agendas. This I say in all logic. It confirms what I say, that those who are considered saints in Christianity apparently fail to feature the saintly attributes.

Dear Muslim75: Thank you for your honest answer. As a secular gentile, I can tell you the minimum I needed from the Bible to connect with other Christians.

1. First if you want the shortest short cut, true Christianity simply means true charity for all.
So since Islam teaches to practice charity for all, that part is the Christian spirit.
the real key in Christianity is forgiveness for all, which is the hardest part.
the greatest act of charity is forgiveness, when it is least deserved is when it is the most valuable and powerful in transforming and healing wronged relations hurt by injustice.
So Jesus represents the divine power of Justice with Mercy that corrects and heals wrongs after receiving it by forgiving first.

the reason the Bible and Jesus came later is that God's justice existed beforehand on the level of heaven
and was only manifested to man in stages, wehre Moses gave the laws first, then Jesus came incarnated on earth
to start the fulfillment process. this process is complete when all humanity receives embraces and embodies justice
as one people under the laws of God. so Muslims are called to receive and respect ALL sent by God,
including the laws given to the Jews and the scriptures given to the Christians along with the teachings of Mohammad
given to complete the process in the Holy Spirit received with Jesus. the peace that comes with justice.

2. Jesus explained that all the laws and prophets hang on the two great commandments
A. to love God with all our hearts minds and souls
C. to love our neighbors as ourselves and
B. Jesus gave us a New Commandment in John 13:34
to love one another as HE loves us
so his love being perfect as God's love
joins the other two as one, the love of God with the love of man
so the Trinity is complete
we the people or the church body
are joined as one with God's love and truth
by the love of Christ or conscience, embodying the laws that unite us by healing
and correcting all wrongs all fears and errors all injustice and division that has separated humanity (for redressing issues to bring unity in Christ or by Conscience in the spirit of God's truth, see also Matthew 18:15-20 where believers are supposed to reconcile with each other, for the love of Truth, Justice, and Peace for all humanity which is symbolized in the Trinity, and whatever we agree upon among each other is done by our Father in Heaven. Amen.)

3. so as long as you follow the spirit of the laws through Christ Jesus, which means Restorative Justice, or Justice with Mercy and Peace to bring salvation to all humanity without exception

then this spirit of God's perfect Justice with Mercy,
that Jesus Christ represents, fulfills all the laws and prophets sent by God
as Mohammad taught. Bismi Allah Al-Rahman Al-Raheem
Salaam Malaikum
Peace be unto you.

 

[irosie91]

Emily-----you know nothing about Judaism, Christianity or islam. BTW---
Jesus did not come up with anything new----he simply quoted
Hillel Islam does not preach "charity to all"------in fact "ZAKAT"--
can be used ONLY for issues that magnify ISLAM Zakat consist of
an obligation upon muslims to pay a percentage of all assets for
something similar to charity ----the money
CAN be used to buy a suicide vest, but it cannot be used to support
a Christian orphanage

 

[irosie91]

PS----of the three religions mentioned------the ONE that did NOT engage
in genocide is Judaism-----Christians and muslims have murdered
in the HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS in the pursuit of empire buiding
and forced imposition of their beliefs--------AND COUNTING

 

[emilynghiem]

Emily-----you know nothing about Judaism, Christianity or islam. BTW---
Jesus did not come up with anything new----he simply quoted
Hillel Islam does not preach "charity to all"------in fact "ZAKAT"--
can be used ONLY for issues that magnify ISLAM Zakat consist of
an obligation upon muslims to pay a percentage of all assets for
something similar to charity ----the money
CAN be used to buy a suicide vest, but it cannot be used to support
a Christian orphanage

Hi irosie91
You are talking about Jihadism which is worship of Jihad.
The true Muslims I know who DO love the Jewish and Christian and all others as equal neighbors believe in peace and charity, for love of God and humanity. I thank God every day that I have neighbors in Christ in every faith, as Houston is truly blessed to have such diversity.

They are just as frustrated with both Jihadists and Zionist warmongers (blamed on either Jewish or Christian beliefs, but neither claims these extreme Zionists, the same way true Muslims denounce Jihadists as not them)

irosie if you do not appreciate people blaming the Zionist version of Jihadism
on Jews who are peaceful, then it is wise not to blame the Jihadist version of Islam on Muslims who are peaceful also.

You ARE aware that people DO blame the Jewish state for genocide against Palestinians?
This is similar to blaming Muslims for what Terrorists and Jihadists do that is against what they believe.

I think we need to agree what we are calling what.
I agree with you there has been genocide committed by Christian and Islamic crusades to conquer nations.

This is ANTICHRIST and is warned against in the Bible.

I find the true believers in God among the Jews, Christians, Muslims
all work together for peace and justice and denounce war and violence.

So whatever is NOT true love and faith, is NOT from God, and is NOT what I am talking about.

Sorry we are miscommunicating irosie.
I am against the same genocide you are.

It is caused by unforgiveness and retribution.
So I look to the true believers in every faith who seek
forgiveness, compassion, wisdom and correction for truth and justice to bring peace.

I have found true believers in humanity among
atheists, feminists, Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, and religious and political affiliations of all kinds.

I have also found people, in EVERY group, who won't or can't forgive yet,
and who blame others but won't stop the hate and anger on their side
because they are still grieving and still in the anger and venting phase.

irosie91 I cannot judge people for that, they are in pain and in fear.
All I can do is ask that we start with forgiving and trying to work to correct
common problems, align on common goals, and denounce common wrongs.

As we work together, we will find allies on all sides, among Jews Christians
Muslims, atheists, Buddhist, nontheists and theists alike.

irosie we are not each other's enemies.
the fear separating us is our worst enemy and that can be overcome
with love of truth and love of justice which is greater than any fear of the opposite forces.

I am sorry you have seen so much suffering, and it has hurt you deeply as it has hurt me to see.
The only way out of this is to love one another, and stick to the truth that sets us free
from anger, strife, fear and anything negative. The negative thoughts and energy just attract more.

What stops the retribution is teaming up in the spirit of truth and love, positive goals.
And that stops the war and hatred from taking people over.

Thank you, irosie
I am SO glad you are here and you are brave to speak honestly
this is exactly what is needed

Hugs and love to you
May all the peaceful blessings of God be yours
this Thanksgiving weekend and throughout the holiday seasons

May all wars be ceased and all fears be conquered with love,
where God's perfect love casts out all fear. May the love of
Christ or Conscience carry and keep you safe while these
other issues are worked out peacefully and safely without harm or injury to any soul.
In Jesus name/Justice sake, Amen.

 

[emilynghiem]

PS----of the three religions mentioned------the ONE that did NOT engage
in genocide is Judaism-----Christians and muslims have murdered
in the HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS in the pursuit of empire buiding
and forced imposition of their beliefs--------AND COUNTING

Dear irosie: Many people blame the Zionist warfare on the Jews, especially
those who sympathize with the Palestinians and blame Jews for occupying land
and committing genocide.

If you are wise enough to see that the Jewish faith is not this Zionist genocide,
then please be wise enough to see that the Jihadist terrorism is not the Muslim faith.

The Jihadists take advantage of the Muslims and the religion to take over govts
and military power because the Muslims are so peaceful. Similar to the Chinese
taking over Tibet because the Buddhists are so peaceful.

They are being taken advantage of, they are victims also!

Are you going to blame Tibetans for the genocide of the Chinese?
Some people do. Some people blame Buddhism for being so passive
it enables and allows oppression to exist unchecked.

So if you are going to blame Muslims for Jihadist running them over and hijacking their faith,
please also blame Jewish people what Zionists have done in the name of God and Israel
and blame Tibetan Buddhists for what Chinese have done to take over their lands also.

Please be fair!

 

[irosie91]

PS----of the three religions mentioned------the ONE that did NOT engage
in genocide is Judaism-----Christians and muslims have murdered
in the HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS in the pursuit of empire buiding
and forced imposition of their beliefs--------AND COUNTING

Dear irosie: Many people blame the Zionist warfare on the Jews, especially
those who sympathize with the Palestinians and blame Jews for occupying land
and committing genocide.

If you are wise enough to see that the Jewish faith is not this Zionist genocide,
then please be wise enough to see that the Jihadist terrorism is not the Muslim faith.

The Jihadists take advantage of the Muslims and the religion to take over govts
and military power because the Muslims are so peaceful. Similar to the Chinese
taking over Tibet because the Buddhists are so peaceful.

They are being taken advantage of, they are victims also!

Are you going to blame Tibetans for the genocide of the Chinese?
Some people do. Some people blame Buddhism for being so passive
it enables and allows oppression to exist unchecked.

So if you are going to blame Muslims for Jihadist running them over and hijacking their faith,
please also blame Jewish people what Zionists have done in the name of God and Israel
and blame Tibetan Buddhists for what Chinese have done to take over their lands also.

Please be fair!

Emily----your ramblings are not only very ill informed----they are also
disgusting and offensive. It is difficult for me to ENUMERATE examples
of your filth because your filth is so PERVASIVE

In one of your idiot posts you waxed idiotic by claiming that the writings of
the scriptures you call the Old Testament----promoted genocide---and even
noted that something in MY post supported that idea-----OK---interesting
----what did I write in my post that supports the idea that the writings of
the Old testament-------galvanized the genocides of the hundreds of
millions of people murdered by muslims and Christians.
BTW----there is no genocide going on in "Palestine"-----there might be
if your isis pigs move in. ---btw---isis IS ISLAAAM. For more understanding---
read the Koran. I have known hundreds of muslims right here in the US----
there is ABSOLUTELY nothing you can tell me about muslims in general.----
My husband was born in a very classically SHARIAH SHIT HOLE muslim
country------it had been a shariah shit hole long before 1948. If
you need to know something about islam-----speak to a Christian or jewish
survivor of shariah shit