Beware of the Huckabee/Herman Cain fairtax trap!

johnwk

Gold Member
May 24, 2009
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This is absolutely amazing. The big con for a massive expansion of what Congress may tax is still being promoted as a “fairtax“ by Mike Huckabee and Herman Cain. So, let us examine how this tax, which is a tax upon the sale of “property” would affect Mary and Joe Sixpack, ordinary working people.

Mary and Joe have two children and find it necessary to earn extra money to pay their bills. Mary baby sits for neighbors in the community and cleans homes on weekends to raise extra money while Joe, who works a full time job for a company as a house painter, also paints homes on his own time to people living in his community to raise extra cash.

Well, surprise, surprise! Under the alleged fair tax Mary and Joe Sixpack’s inalienable right to sell the property they have in their labor becomes a taxable event under Herman Cain‘s “fairtax“, and, they must first register with government to sell the property they have in their labor, collect a federal tax for Congress, file federal fairtax returns under the penalty of perjury 12 times a freaken year, and they will be compelled to keep any records Congress may dream up, not to mention the threat of audits which will constantly haunt them if they dare to sell the property they have in their labor.

In addition to filing fairtax returns 12 times a year and giving government a 23 percent cut of the action to the federal government when selling the property they have in their labor, Mary and Joe also get to pay a new 23 percent tax upon their purchases under the alleged fairtax.
.

But the con doesn’t stop here. If Herman Cain’s “fairtax’ were adopted and put into practice, and if the 16th Amendment were repealed under its companion legislation, H.J.RES 16 which proposes to repeal the 16th Amendment, there is another big surprise waiting for all those who think that Congress’ authority to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits, gains, salaries and other incomes is ended. The ringleaders behind H.J.RES. 16 refuse to add these words to the repeal of the 16th Amendment:

The Sixteenth Amendment is hereby repealed and Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money.

And without this language in H.J.RES. 16, which I have attempted to get fairtax.org to add to H.J.RES 16 for years, Congress still has authority to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits, gains, salaries and other incomes. For example Congress would still have authority to lay and collect the tax calculated from incomes which was laid during the civil war and upheld in Springer vs. United States. In addition, Congress would still have authority to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits and gains as were laid under the Corporate Excise Tax of 1909, which was upheld in Flint vs. Stone Tracy. Bottom line is, the alleged fairtax does not propose to end taxes calculated from profits, gains, salaries and incomes. It proposes to have Congress lay two new taxes: a 23 percent tax upon the sale of newly manufactured property, and, a 23 percent tax upon the sale of property which working people have in their labor. And this does not even take into account the massive redistribution of wealth proposed under its “family consumption allowance” ____ an entitlement which would send a monthly bonus check to those already on the public dole and not gainfully employed, which would be taxed away from our productive members of society.

Finally, it should also be noted that Leo E. Linbeck Jr., founder of fairtax.org is also a past chairman and director of the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas, and former director of the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas-Houston Branch, which is part of that secretive theft ring called the federal reserve system which takes billions, upon billions of American Taxpayer dollars and launders them by sending them abroad to foreign banking pals.

Now, I’m not big on conspiracies, but those directly connected to the federal reserve system, a private banking cartel which un-constitutionally regulates the value of our money via re-discount rates, ought to be very carefully examined, and what their members, former and present, propose for tax reform ought to be even more carefully examined so as to avoid a total enslavement of America’s businesses, industries and working class people which seems to be the case under the massive expansion of what Congress may tax as proposed under H.R. 25, and its companion legislation H.J.RES 16.

And what is my solution for tax reform? A return to our Constitution’s ORIGINAL TAX PLAN as our founding fathers intended it to operate and could be put back into practice by adding the following 32 words to our Constitution:

The Sixteenth Amendment is hereby repealed and Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money.


Regards,

JWK

Our tyrant in the White House forces the productive to pay taxes so he can spread their wealth, but he does not force his beloved 40 % who pay no income taxes to work for the taxes they get.
 
If we allow Congress to pass any tax at all it's going right on top of all the other taxes we already have.
 
If we allow Congress to pass any tax at all it's going right on top of all the other taxes we already have.



Well, that is certainly true with regard to the “fairtax”, and why the ringleaders behind it will not add the following words to their repeal of the 16th Amendment, H.J.RES 16:

The Sixteenth Amendment is hereby repealed and Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money.


JWK
 
FAIR...now there's a word with a highly plastic definition.

What is FAIR?

Can a society that does not offer FAIR opportunities every one of its citizens devise a tax system that is FAIR to every one of its taxpayers?

I don't think it's really possible.

Capitalism is NOT about FAIRNESS, folks.

Its about anything BUT fairness, actually.

The very principle of CAPTIALISM is to advantage one class over all others in that society.

And now we expect to find things FAIR in taxation?


Why?

And even better question than why is HOW?!


A flat system in taxation can only be "fair" in society which also offers its citizens a flat system in reward.
 
"Mary and Joe also get to pay a new 23 percent tax upon their purchases under the alleged fairtax."

That statement should convince anyone reading your rant that you know absolutely NOTHING about the
fair tax.
 
If we allow Congress to pass any tax at all it's going right on top of all the other taxes we already have.

Not true, the Fair Tax replaces ALL of the taxes imposed by the feds with a consumption tax. Make a list of all of the taxes collected on any product and you will find that the price of that product will stay the same under the Fair Tax.
 
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I dont like the fair tax because it creates a huge bureaucracy to decide what is taxable and what isn't. These are unaccountable bureaucrats whose decisions are not open to question or scrutiny.
While in principle I think any tax reform is welcome, this one I have a hard time getting behind.
I much prefer a flat tax: everyone pays 12% of whatever income they make. No deductions. Other counties have tried this and it works well. It produces in excess of the percentage of GDP we currently have because of the efficiency of the tax.
 
We should have a flat tax, not a fair tax. Abolish the IRS, but have everyone pay the same percentage on "wages, monies earned," straight across the board, 13%.
 
This is absolutely amazing. The big con for a massive expansion of what Congress may tax is still being promoted as a “fairtax“ by Mike Huckabee and Herman Cain. So, let us examine how this tax, which is a tax upon the sale of “property” would affect Mary and Joe Sixpack, ordinary working people.

Mary and Joe have two children and find it necessary to earn extra money to pay their bills. Mary baby sits for neighbors in the community and cleans homes on weekends to raise extra money while Joe, who works a full time job for a company as a house painter, also paints homes on his own time to people living in his community to raise extra cash.

Well, surprise, surprise! Under the alleged fair tax Mary and Joe Sixpack’s inalienable right to sell the property they have in their labor becomes a taxable event under Herman Cain‘s “fairtax“, and, they must first register with government to sell the property they have in their labor, collect a federal tax for Congress, file federal fairtax returns under the penalty of perjury 12 times a freaken year, and they will be compelled to keep any records Congress may dream up, not to mention the threat of audits which will constantly haunt them if they dare to sell the property they have in their labor.

In addition to filing fairtax returns 12 times a year and giving government a 23 percent cut of the action to the federal government when selling the property they have in their labor, Mary and Joe also get to pay a new 23 percent tax upon their purchases under the alleged fairtax.
.

But the con doesn’t stop here. If Herman Cain’s “fairtax’ were adopted and put into practice, and if the 16th Amendment were repealed under its companion legislation, H.J.RES 16 which proposes to repeal the 16th Amendment, there is another big surprise waiting for all those who think that Congress’ authority to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits, gains, salaries and other incomes is ended. The ringleaders behind H.J.RES. 16 refuse to add these words to the repeal of the 16th Amendment:

The Sixteenth Amendment is hereby repealed and Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money.

And without this language in H.J.RES. 16, which I have attempted to get fairtax.org to add to H.J.RES 16 for years, Congress still has authority to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits, gains, salaries and other incomes. For example Congress would still have authority to lay and collect the tax calculated from incomes which was laid during the civil war and upheld in Springer vs. United States. In addition, Congress would still have authority to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits and gains as were laid under the Corporate Excise Tax of 1909, which was upheld in Flint vs. Stone Tracy. Bottom line is, the alleged fairtax does not propose to end taxes calculated from profits, gains, salaries and incomes. It proposes to have Congress lay two new taxes: a 23 percent tax upon the sale of newly manufactured property, and, a 23 percent tax upon the sale of property which working people have in their labor. And this does not even take into account the massive redistribution of wealth proposed under its “family consumption allowance” ____ an entitlement which would send a monthly bonus check to those already on the public dole and not gainfully employed, which would be taxed away from our productive members of society.

Finally, it should also be noted that Leo E. Linbeck Jr., founder of fairtax.org is also a past chairman and director of the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas, and former director of the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas-Houston Branch, which is part of that secretive theft ring called the federal reserve system which takes billions, upon billions of American Taxpayer dollars and launders them by sending them abroad to foreign banking pals.

Now, I’m not big on conspiracies, but those directly connected to the federal reserve system, a private banking cartel which un-constitutionally regulates the value of our money via re-discount rates, ought to be very carefully examined, and what their members, former and present, propose for tax reform ought to be even more carefully examined so as to avoid a total enslavement of America’s businesses, industries and working class people which seems to be the case under the massive expansion of what Congress may tax as proposed under H.R. 25, and its companion legislation H.J.RES 16.

And what is my solution for tax reform? A return to our Constitution’s ORIGINAL TAX PLAN as our founding fathers intended it to operate and could be put back into practice by adding the following 32 words to our Constitution:

The Sixteenth Amendment is hereby repealed and Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money.


Regards,

JWK

Our tyrant in the White House forces the productive to pay taxes so he can spread their wealth, but he does not force his beloved 40 % who pay no income taxes to work for the taxes they get.

You are obviously ignorant of the FairTax since you think that existing homes (or any used good) are taxable. They aren't. Only services and new goods are subject to the FairTax.

Americans For Fair Taxation: The FairTax Tagline
 
"Mary and Joe also get to pay a new 23 percent tax upon their purchases under the alleged fairtax."

That statement should convince anyone reading your rant that you know absolutely NOTHING about the
fair tax.

The statement is correct, is it not?


JWK
 
If we allow Congress to pass any tax at all it's going right on top of all the other taxes we already have.

Not true, the Fair Tax replaces ALL of the taxes imposed by the feds with a consumption tax. Make a list of all of the taxes collected on any product and you will find that the price of that product will stay the same under the Fair Tax.



Actually there are many, many other taxes to be laid and collected. Under the proposed legislation, H.R. 25, we find:

SEC. 302. ADMINISTRATION OF OTHER FEDERAL TAXES.

(a) In General- Section 7801 (relating to the authority of the Department of the Treasury) is amended by adding at the end the following:

`(d) Excise Tax Bureau- There shall be in the Department of the Treasury an Excise Tax Bureau to administer those excise taxes not administered by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.

`(e) Sales Tax Bureau- There shall be in the Department of the Treasury a Sales Tax Bureau to administer the national sales tax in those States where it is required pursuant to section 404, and to discharge other Federal duties and powers relating to the national sales tax (including those required by sections 402, 403, and 405). The Office of Revenue Allocation shall be within the Sales Tax Bureau.'.

So, in fact we get

(a) a 23 percent tax upon the sale of newly manufactured products

(b) a 23 percent tax upon the sale of property which Mary and Joe have in their labor

(c) we get whatever excise taxes Congress may dream up such as a tax calculated from incomes as was laid during the Civil War and upheld in Springer vs. United States, or, a tax calculated from profits and gains as was laid under the Corporate Excise Tax of 1909, upheld in Flint vs. Stone Trace,

(d) And don’t for get the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms will also be collecting taxes.


So, although the IRS may be closed down, two new tax collecting agencies are created and Congress maintains power to collect a variety of other taxes in addition to the alleged “fairtax”.


JWK
 
I dont like the fair tax because it creates a huge bureaucracy to decide what is taxable and what isn't. These are unaccountable bureaucrats whose decisions are not open to question or scrutiny.
While in principle I think any tax reform is welcome, this one I have a hard time getting behind.
I much prefer a flat tax: everyone pays 12% of whatever income they make. No deductions. Other counties have tried this and it works well. It produces in excess of the percentage of GDP we currently have because of the efficiency of the tax.

I would have no problem with a flat tax, given a standard deduction that everyone receives. As for the "fair tax", it's a joke and will never get anywhere. Right off the top of my head, I can envision a massive black market being created overnight as everyone did whatever they could to avoid the tax. People would begin trading goods with no cash exchanging hands. It would be a mess and would take an unbelievably larger bureaucracy than we now have just to try to enforce it.
 
I would have no problem with a flat tax, given a standard deduction that everyone receives. As for the "fair tax", it's a joke and will never get anywhere. Right off the top of my head, I can envision a massive black market being created overnight as everyone did whatever they could to avoid the tax. People would begin trading goods with no cash exchanging hands. It would be a mess and would take an unbelievably larger bureaucracy than we now have just to try to enforce it.


People who want to barter are required to cut the federal government in on the action based upon 23 percent the ’fair market value” of the exchange.

`(f) Barter Transactions- If gross payment for taxable property or services is made in other than money, then the person responsible for collecting and remitting the tax shall remit the tax to the sales tax administering authority in money as if gross payment had been made in money at the tax inclusive fair market value of the taxable property or services purchased


JWK
 
FAIR...now there's a word with a highly plastic definition.

What is FAIR?

Can a society that does not offer FAIR opportunities every one of its citizens devise a tax system that is FAIR to every one of its taxpayers?

I don't think it's really possible.

Capitalism is NOT about FAIRNESS, folks.

Its about anything BUT fairness, actually.

The very principle of CAPTIALISM is to advantage one class over all others in that society.

And now we expect to find things FAIR in taxation?


Why?

And even better question than why is HOW?!


A flat system in taxation can only be "fair" in society which also offers its citizens a flat system in reward.

Wait.

What?

Since when was society responsible for 'offering' anyone anything? Make your own fucking opportunities.
 
JWK, I have a question.

What if all of the other federal taxes were repealed, and the Fair Tax was the only tax there?

Would you still oppose it then? I'm curious, as I'm trying to REALLY learn about our tax system much better.
 
FAIR...now there's a word with a highly plastic definition.

What is FAIR?

Can a society that does not offer FAIR opportunities every one of its citizens devise a tax system that is FAIR to every one of its taxpayers?

I don't think it's really possible.

Capitalism is NOT about FAIRNESS, folks.

Its about anything BUT fairness, actually.

The very principle of CAPTIALISM is to advantage one class over all others in that society.

And now we expect to find things FAIR in taxation?


Why?

And even better question than why is HOW?!


A flat system in taxation can only be "fair" in society which also offers its citizens a flat system in reward.

Wait.

What?

Since when was society responsible for 'offering' anyone anything? Make your own fucking opportunities.

*Bingo*. With Liberty comes responsibilty. What is so hard about this with some?
 
We should have a flat tax, not a fair tax. Abolish the IRS, but have everyone pay the same percentage on "wages, monies earned," straight across the board, 13%.

The Founders didn't wish Income taxed, and instead opted taxing Commerce...(As it should be...as it once was). That changed in 1913

And has been a tool of the Socialist manipulators ever since and that Includes the Federal Reserve.
 

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