Bernie preaches about free stuff..

[Conservative65]

If you live at home, and you work a full time job, and go to school.... how can you not pay your way through college?

What heck are you blowing your money on? Columbus State Community College, in-state tuition rates.... $3,400 a year. Now what job are you working that you can't earn $3,400 a year? If you work 10 hours a day, minimum wage, you would earn $3,400 a year.

Now of course, that's not enough because of TAXES, which are so high because scummy left-wingers are taxing us to death to pay for their 'free' programs.

EVEN SO.... if you worked a massive 12 hours a week, you should still make more than enough to pay for school.

"well I don't want to live at home"... . that's fine. Do whatever you want. But why should I pay for it, because you don't want to live wisely?

"Well I want to join all the expensive student activities". Fine. Why should I pay for it?

"well I want to go to an expensive out of state college that ranks higher on the party list".... fine. Why should I pay for it?

This left-wing bull crap, about "no one should have to choose to get an education for their kids or not" is just garbage.

There are millions of ways to get free, or super low cost education. Millions. We have grants and scholarships out the wazoo, and all you have to do is apply for them, and have the grades.

If you don't have the grades, why would we pay to have someone go to college, when they are not likely to pass anyway?

The highest drop out rate is those people who go to college on pell grants. What's the point? Why are we even funding that?

Even you left-wing idiots, should be asking the question.... you tax us, and spend $30 Billion dollars a year, and the majority goes to students who drop out. And you want to pay for the entire thing free? How is that going to benefit anyone? It doesn't even benefit the students on the pell grants. Congrats, you failed.

Are they better off? No. Are we better off? No. Is society better off? No. So we're all worse off, all of us, even the people you claim to be supporting. Those people could have been moving on with their lives, instead of wasting their time, going to a college they had no chance of passing.

Oh, but no no, we need to make it free. That will solve everything. Except that with more and more money sucked out of the economy, there will be fewer jobs. But you people never care about that anyway.

Then we can end up like the UK, and when the money runs out.....

Brilliant move. That worked so well... let's do the same thing here.

1. i would never make my son live home for college. part of growing up is the experience of living at school. it was one of the best and most important things i ever did.
2. it is very difficult to get those entry level jobs because people who can work all day get them. no one wants to work around a college student's schedule, which, if the student is serious, is going to be very full.
3. a minimum wage, part time job does not pay for school.
4, you don't care about spending money... it's been shoveled into wars and tax relief for corporations if you cared about money 70 million wouldn't have been spent on investigating a blue dress or 20 million on something that is a contrived political hack job.

the UK mostly does just fine. thanks....it just gets screwed up when righties take over.

every other civilized nation provides health care and an education. it's only rightwingnut idiots who think those things have no value...

because jesus.

1. AGAIN.... That's fine! Pay for him to live at college. Why should *I* be forced to pay for your son to live at a college, simply because you are stuck up?

You can do anything you want buddy... *YOU PAY FOR IT*.

2. I worked TWO jobs when I was in college. In fact, my company right now has THREE interns, that are paid WELL ABOVE minimum wage, and we work around their scheduled constantly.

Walmart has tuition reimbursement, and they work around schedule ALL THE TIME. I know someone who did it! You are so full of crap. You just make up ANYTHING to support your BS position.

3. I just gave you the tuition fees. And I assume you can do math, so I don't have to explain to you how much minimum wage verses a part time shift. How does it not cover it?

4. The UK does not do fine. "Yeah they do fine, that's why people are rioting in the streets, and they are cutting funding year over year."

They run out of money, and you think "it's the righties!". What moron.

Maybe you can't do math. When you run out of money, it's not "righties"..... it's called math. The amount of money you have to spend, is less than the amount required for your 'free' education.

And quite frankly, all the "free" health care around the world, is neither free, nor good. But if you can't grasp the fact the UK doesn't have un-ending piles of money for education, then clearly you are too incompetent to know anything about 'free' health care either.

See, this is why socialism is tried over and over, even though 100% of the time it fails. No matter what happens, you don't bother with "Oh that's right, in order to buy something, you have to have the money for it".... no no.... it's "the righties!" Those darn righties. Math wouldn't be a problem if not for those darn calculators and the right-wingers that use them..... darn math... using.... conservative.... righties!

It's amazing I keep forgetting I'm talking left-wingers, where 1 + 1 is 11. "See? Two 1s by each other is 11. That's the left wing math. We can afford anything with our math."

Universal healthcare works very well in almost every country where it is available. You have been brainwashed into believing otherwise. Hybrid systems that allow for some private care seem to work the best as they guarantee good quality care for everyone and even better care for those who choose to pay extra. Now I'm sure you are going to come back and tell me just how bad all that socialized healthcare is in countries that you have never been to, but you will be wrong again. See, there are two specific things to look at, and that is cost and outcome. The overall outcome of people's health in the US is no better than any country with socialized healthcare, and in many cases the US is worse. That is a fact. Sure you may find one treatment that is slightly better in the US than in GB or Germany, but you will find the opposite true for other types of care. When you look at all of it, the best you could come to as a conclusion is that it is a wash, except for the other fact, and that other fact is that we in the US pay double what almost every other country pays for healthcare. Why is it we want to pay double what everyone else in the world pays for the same product? That's just stupid.

You people on the left keep 'saying' that socialized care works great in every country, but then when I look it up, it's never as great as you claim it is.

Yeah, a hybrid system is better than a completely socialized system. That's no surprise to us on the right. The more socialized it is, the worse it is. The more capitalist it is, the better it is. Logically, if it is a hybrid, it will be better than a pure socialized system.

The US is still better than any completely socialized system I've ever looked at. Is it getting worse? Yes. And the US health care is becoming more and more socialized.

Is their health care cheaper? In some ways... The quality of the care is lower, and lower care, results in a lower price. At the same time, I keep looking at the costs, and I don't see it being cheaper.

I remember reading one comparison with UKs National Health Service. Oh yes, NHS is far cheaper than our system. Is it? Only if you exclusively look at NHS taxes. Problem is, NHS isn't funded by the National Insurance tax. Not at all. 90% plus, of the NHS budget comes from the General revenue.

Why do you think UK wages are on average lower than US wages? Because employer side taxes are higher. Where do you think the money comes from to pay those taxes? From the employee in the form of lower wages.

Why do you think tax rates are higher in the UK? So not only do they earn less to begin with, but they get to keep less of it.

The effective marginal tax rate in the UK is almost 10% higher than that of the US. Let me ask you which is cheaper.

I make $20,000 a year, and my monthly health insurance premium is $76 a month.

10% of my income is $2,000 a year. Insurance is $912 a year. Which is cheaper according to math, instead of your opinion?

Maybe that's just me. Let's take the average US income $50,500, and the average insurance premium of $235.

10% of the average wage is $5,050 a year, and average insurance is $2,820. Which is cheaper according to math, instead of your opinion?

Paying 10% more in taxes, is vastly more expensive than our current system, no matter what other stats you come up with.

Oh, and before you bring it up, all those fees and additional costs here in the US... they all exist in the UK too. Fee for hospital stays, fees for various treatments. Fees for using a hospital telephone. Did you know that UK hospitals charge patients, and make a profit off of using the telephone?

You pass out, wake up at the hospital, and don't have your cell phone, sure you can call your wife... for a fee.... don't worry, we'll just add that to your hospital fees.

So this claim that it's so much cheaper.... I've been to the UK, and I have friends that live there now.... not seeing this "so much cheaper" system.

And the quality of care?

Number of patients waiting 36 weeks for NHS treatment triples - BBC News

Yeah, maybe.... if you live long enough to get it. Funny how when I look up medical tourism statistics, I always see the US on the list somewhere.... and that's to be expected. In a free-market competitive system, I would expect some Americans to go shopping in the market for a better deal.

But how do you explain Canada, UK, Europe, Australia, Japan, and all the other countries with "free" high quality health care? Why does India get more visitors from Canada and the UK for health care, than the US.... when as you claim they get free government paid for care, that is just as good as the US?

Why is Japan the biggest source of medical tourism for Korea, if their government care is so great?

Maybe all your crap is wrong? Just a thought.

we don't have socialized medicine except at the V.A. level and other than the glitches that occurred after bush privatized walter reed, which seem to be relatively under control now, most service members are very satisfied with their health care. the rest of us have HEALTH INSURANCE... which only enriches the insurance industry. or do you think it benefitted us when they didn't insure people because of pre-existing conditions but dumped you from your existing coverage when you got sick?

so your entire rant about waiting periods in britain are meaningless.... since... again... we don't have socialized medicine. now, also, people with money still get private health care even in countries where there is socialized medicine. now ask those people who do wait whether they'd prefer waiting or not having any medical care.

you people are so silly... everyone i know who lives with a socialized system of medicine is pretty happy about it. but that's not even what most people on the left want anyway... a single payor system where private doctors are paid by the government but not working FOR the government... kind of like the medicaid system works.

what isn't good is the system we have where we have amazing medical care but access is not available to everyone. we are the only civilized country in the world that does what we do and it costs more and gets less than anywhere else.

and that's just a crime. but wingers don't like to solve problems. they just like to rant because it benefits them politically with the wacky base.

When subsidies funded by someone other than the person receiving them in order to be able to purchased healthcare INSURANCE, it's socialized.

When someone uses MEDICAID, a healthcare INSURANCE funded by others, it's socialized.

Access is available to everyone. You're equating access and ability to pay. If someone can't afford to pay, write a check on their behalf. That means if you claim someone didn't have access because they couldn't and you, someone that believes the person should have it doesn't pay for them yourself, you've denied them access. YOU say they have a right to it but YOU won't fund it for them yourself.

Lefties answer to solving anything they see as a problem is to let the government handle it and that involves someone else getting stuck with the bill while those benefiting from whatever it is not contributing to the cause. Food stamps is a prime example. If you know of someone that doesn't have money to buy food, buy it for them. I'll do the same in situations where I determine there is a need. What I won't do is determine on your behalf when one occurs but you can't say the same thing.

 

[auditor0007]

1. i would never make my son live home for college. part of growing up is the experience of living at school. it was one of the best and most important things i ever did.
2. it is very difficult to get those entry level jobs because people who can work all day get them. no one wants to work around a college student's schedule, which, if the student is serious, is going to be very full.
3. a minimum wage, part time job does not pay for school.
4, you don't care about spending money... it's been shoveled into wars and tax relief for corporations if you cared about money 70 million wouldn't have been spent on investigating a blue dress or 20 million on something that is a contrived political hack job.

the UK mostly does just fine. thanks....it just gets screwed up when righties take over.

every other civilized nation provides health care and an education. it's only rightwingnut idiots who think those things have no value...

because jesus.

1. AGAIN.... That's fine! Pay for him to live at college. Why should *I* be forced to pay for your son to live at a college, simply because you are stuck up?

You can do anything you want buddy... *YOU PAY FOR IT*.

2. I worked TWO jobs when I was in college. In fact, my company right now has THREE interns, that are paid WELL ABOVE minimum wage, and we work around their scheduled constantly.

Walmart has tuition reimbursement, and they work around schedule ALL THE TIME. I know someone who did it! You are so full of crap. You just make up ANYTHING to support your BS position.

3. I just gave you the tuition fees. And I assume you can do math, so I don't have to explain to you how much minimum wage verses a part time shift. How does it not cover it?

4. The UK does not do fine. "Yeah they do fine, that's why people are rioting in the streets, and they are cutting funding year over year."

They run out of money, and you think "it's the righties!". What moron.

Maybe you can't do math. When you run out of money, it's not "righties"..... it's called math. The amount of money you have to spend, is less than the amount required for your 'free' education.

And quite frankly, all the "free" health care around the world, is neither free, nor good. But if you can't grasp the fact the UK doesn't have un-ending piles of money for education, then clearly you are too incompetent to know anything about 'free' health care either.

See, this is why socialism is tried over and over, even though 100% of the time it fails. No matter what happens, you don't bother with "Oh that's right, in order to buy something, you have to have the money for it".... no no.... it's "the righties!" Those darn righties. Math wouldn't be a problem if not for those darn calculators and the right-wingers that use them..... darn math... using.... conservative.... righties!

It's amazing I keep forgetting I'm talking left-wingers, where 1 + 1 is 11. "See? Two 1s by each other is 11. That's the left wing math. We can afford anything with our math."

Universal healthcare works very well in almost every country where it is available. You have been brainwashed into believing otherwise. Hybrid systems that allow for some private care seem to work the best as they guarantee good quality care for everyone and even better care for those who choose to pay extra. Now I'm sure you are going to come back and tell me just how bad all that socialized healthcare is in countries that you have never been to, but you will be wrong again. See, there are two specific things to look at, and that is cost and outcome. The overall outcome of people's health in the US is no better than any country with socialized healthcare, and in many cases the US is worse. That is a fact. Sure you may find one treatment that is slightly better in the US than in GB or Germany, but you will find the opposite true for other types of care. When you look at all of it, the best you could come to as a conclusion is that it is a wash, except for the other fact, and that other fact is that we in the US pay double what almost every other country pays for healthcare. Why is it we want to pay double what everyone else in the world pays for the same product? That's just stupid.

You people on the left keep 'saying' that socialized care works great in every country, but then when I look it up, it's never as great as you claim it is.

Yeah, a hybrid system is better than a completely socialized system. That's no surprise to us on the right. The more socialized it is, the worse it is. The more capitalist it is, the better it is. Logically, if it is a hybrid, it will be better than a pure socialized system.

The US is still better than any completely socialized system I've ever looked at. Is it getting worse? Yes. And the US health care is becoming more and more socialized.

Is their health care cheaper? In some ways... The quality of the care is lower, and lower care, results in a lower price. At the same time, I keep looking at the costs, and I don't see it being cheaper.

I remember reading one comparison with UKs National Health Service. Oh yes, NHS is far cheaper than our system. Is it? Only if you exclusively look at NHS taxes. Problem is, NHS isn't funded by the National Insurance tax. Not at all. 90% plus, of the NHS budget comes from the General revenue.

Why do you think UK wages are on average lower than US wages? Because employer side taxes are higher. Where do you think the money comes from to pay those taxes? From the employee in the form of lower wages.

Why do you think tax rates are higher in the UK? So not only do they earn less to begin with, but they get to keep less of it.

The effective marginal tax rate in the UK is almost 10% higher than that of the US. Let me ask you which is cheaper.

I make $20,000 a year, and my monthly health insurance premium is $76 a month.

10% of my income is $2,000 a year. Insurance is $912 a year. Which is cheaper according to math, instead of your opinion?

Maybe that's just me. Let's take the average US income $50,500, and the average insurance premium of $235.

10% of the average wage is $5,050 a year, and average insurance is $2,820. Which is cheaper according to math, instead of your opinion?

Paying 10% more in taxes, is vastly more expensive than our current system, no matter what other stats you come up with.

Oh, and before you bring it up, all those fees and additional costs here in the US... they all exist in the UK too. Fee for hospital stays, fees for various treatments. Fees for using a hospital telephone. Did you know that UK hospitals charge patients, and make a profit off of using the telephone?

You pass out, wake up at the hospital, and don't have your cell phone, sure you can call your wife... for a fee.... don't worry, we'll just add that to your hospital fees.

So this claim that it's so much cheaper.... I've been to the UK, and I have friends that live there now.... not seeing this "so much cheaper" system.

And the quality of care?

Number of patients waiting 36 weeks for NHS treatment triples - BBC News

Yeah, maybe.... if you live long enough to get it. Funny how when I look up medical tourism statistics, I always see the US on the list somewhere.... and that's to be expected. In a free-market competitive system, I would expect some Americans to go shopping in the market for a better deal.

But how do you explain Canada, UK, Europe, Australia, Japan, and all the other countries with "free" high quality health care? Why does India get more visitors from Canada and the UK for health care, than the US.... when as you claim they get free government paid for care, that is just as good as the US?

Why is Japan the biggest source of medical tourism for Korea, if their government care is so great?

Maybe all your crap is wrong? Just a thought.

we don't have socialized medicine except at the V.A. level and other than the glitches that occurred after bush privatized walter reed, which seem to be relatively under control now, most service members are very satisfied with their health care. the rest of us have HEALTH INSURANCE... which only enriches the insurance industry. or do you think it benefitted us when they didn't insure people because of pre-existing conditions but dumped you from your existing coverage when you got sick?

so your entire rant about waiting periods in britain are meaningless.... since... again... we don't have socialized medicine. now, also, people with money still get private health care even in countries where there is socialized medicine. now ask those people who do wait whether they'd prefer waiting or not having any medical care.

you people are so silly... everyone i know who lives with a socialized system of medicine is pretty happy about it. but that's not even what most people on the left want anyway... a single payor system where private doctors are paid by the government but not working FOR the government... kind of like the medicaid system works.

what isn't good is the system we have where we have amazing medical care but access is not available to everyone. we are the only civilized country in the world that does what we do and it costs more and gets less than anywhere else.

and that's just a crime. but wingers don't like to solve problems. they just like to rant because it benefits them politically with the wacky base.

When subsidies funded by someone other than the person receiving them in order to be able to purchased healthcare INSURANCE, it's socialized.

When someone uses MEDICAID, a healthcare INSURANCE funded by others, it's socialized.

Access is available to everyone. You're equating access and ability to pay. If someone can't afford to pay, write a check on their behalf. That means if you claim someone didn't have access because they couldn't and you, someone that believes the person should have it doesn't pay for them yourself, you've denied them access. YOU say they have a right to it but YOU won't fund it for them yourself.

Lefties answer to solving anything they see as a problem is to let the government handle it and that involves someone else getting stuck with the bill while those benefiting from whatever it is not contributing to the cause. Food stamps is a prime example. If you know of someone that doesn't have money to buy food, buy it for them. I'll do the same in situations where I determine there is a need. What I won't do is determine on your behalf when one occurs but you can't say the same thing.

Yes, let's put an end to food stamps and send everyone who needs them over to your house so you can feed them.

 

[auditor0007]

If you live at home, and you work a full time job, and go to school.... how can you not pay your way through college?

What heck are you blowing your money on? Columbus State Community College, in-state tuition rates.... $3,400 a year. Now what job are you working that you can't earn $3,400 a year? If you work 10 hours a day, minimum wage, you would earn $3,400 a year.

Now of course, that's not enough because of TAXES, which are so high because scummy left-wingers are taxing us to death to pay for their 'free' programs.

EVEN SO.... if you worked a massive 12 hours a week, you should still make more than enough to pay for school.

"well I don't want to live at home"... . that's fine. Do whatever you want. But why should I pay for it, because you don't want to live wisely?

"Well I want to join all the expensive student activities". Fine. Why should I pay for it?

"well I want to go to an expensive out of state college that ranks higher on the party list".... fine. Why should I pay for it?

This left-wing bull crap, about "no one should have to choose to get an education for their kids or not" is just garbage.

There are millions of ways to get free, or super low cost education. Millions. We have grants and scholarships out the wazoo, and all you have to do is apply for them, and have the grades.

If you don't have the grades, why would we pay to have someone go to college, when they are not likely to pass anyway?

The highest drop out rate is those people who go to college on pell grants. What's the point? Why are we even funding that?

Even you left-wing idiots, should be asking the question.... you tax us, and spend $30 Billion dollars a year, and the majority goes to students who drop out. And you want to pay for the entire thing free? How is that going to benefit anyone? It doesn't even benefit the students on the pell grants. Congrats, you failed.

Are they better off? No. Are we better off? No. Is society better off? No. So we're all worse off, all of us, even the people you claim to be supporting. Those people could have been moving on with their lives, instead of wasting their time, going to a college they had no chance of passing.

Oh, but no no, we need to make it free. That will solve everything. Except that with more and more money sucked out of the economy, there will be fewer jobs. But you people never care about that anyway.

Then we can end up like the UK, and when the money runs out.....

Brilliant move. That worked so well... let's do the same thing here.

1. i would never make my son live home for college. part of growing up is the experience of living at school. it was one of the best and most important things i ever did.
2. it is very difficult to get those entry level jobs because people who can work all day get them. no one wants to work around a college student's schedule, which, if the student is serious, is going to be very full.
3. a minimum wage, part time job does not pay for school.
4, you don't care about spending money... it's been shoveled into wars and tax relief for corporations if you cared about money 70 million wouldn't have been spent on investigating a blue dress or 20 million on something that is a contrived political hack job.

the UK mostly does just fine. thanks....it just gets screwed up when righties take over.

every other civilized nation provides health care and an education. it's only rightwingnut idiots who think those things have no value...

because jesus.

1. AGAIN.... That's fine! Pay for him to live at college. Why should *I* be forced to pay for your son to live at a college, simply because you are stuck up?

You can do anything you want buddy... *YOU PAY FOR IT*.

2. I worked TWO jobs when I was in college. In fact, my company right now has THREE interns, that are paid WELL ABOVE minimum wage, and we work around their scheduled constantly.

Walmart has tuition reimbursement, and they work around schedule ALL THE TIME. I know someone who did it! You are so full of crap. You just make up ANYTHING to support your BS position.

3. I just gave you the tuition fees. And I assume you can do math, so I don't have to explain to you how much minimum wage verses a part time shift. How does it not cover it?

4. The UK does not do fine. "Yeah they do fine, that's why people are rioting in the streets, and they are cutting funding year over year."

They run out of money, and you think "it's the righties!". What moron.

Maybe you can't do math. When you run out of money, it's not "righties"..... it's called math. The amount of money you have to spend, is less than the amount required for your 'free' education.

And quite frankly, all the "free" health care around the world, is neither free, nor good. But if you can't grasp the fact the UK doesn't have un-ending piles of money for education, then clearly you are too incompetent to know anything about 'free' health care either.

See, this is why socialism is tried over and over, even though 100% of the time it fails. No matter what happens, you don't bother with "Oh that's right, in order to buy something, you have to have the money for it".... no no.... it's "the righties!" Those darn righties. Math wouldn't be a problem if not for those darn calculators and the right-wingers that use them..... darn math... using.... conservative.... righties!

It's amazing I keep forgetting I'm talking left-wingers, where 1 + 1 is 11. "See? Two 1s by each other is 11. That's the left wing math. We can afford anything with our math."

Universal healthcare works very well in almost every country where it is available. You have been brainwashed into believing otherwise. Hybrid systems that allow for some private care seem to work the best as they guarantee good quality care for everyone and even better care for those who choose to pay extra. Now I'm sure you are going to come back and tell me just how bad all that socialized healthcare is in countries that you have never been to, but you will be wrong again. See, there are two specific things to look at, and that is cost and outcome. The overall outcome of people's health in the US is no better than any country with socialized healthcare, and in many cases the US is worse. That is a fact. Sure you may find one treatment that is slightly better in the US than in GB or Germany, but you will find the opposite true for other types of care. When you look at all of it, the best you could come to as a conclusion is that it is a wash, except for the other fact, and that other fact is that we in the US pay double what almost every other country pays for healthcare. Why is it we want to pay double what everyone else in the world pays for the same product? That's just stupid.

You people on the left keep 'saying' that socialized care works great in every country, but then when I look it up, it's never as great as you claim it is.

Yeah, a hybrid system is better than a completely socialized system. That's no surprise to us on the right. The more socialized it is, the worse it is. The more capitalist it is, the better it is. Logically, if it is a hybrid, it will be better than a pure socialized system.

The US is still better than any completely socialized system I've ever looked at. Is it getting worse? Yes. And the US health care is becoming more and more socialized.

Is their health care cheaper? In some ways... The quality of the care is lower, and lower care, results in a lower price. At the same time, I keep looking at the costs, and I don't see it being cheaper.

I remember reading one comparison with UKs National Health Service. Oh yes, NHS is far cheaper than our system. Is it? Only if you exclusively look at NHS taxes. Problem is, NHS isn't funded by the National Insurance tax. Not at all. 90% plus, of the NHS budget comes from the General revenue.

Why do you think UK wages are on average lower than US wages? Because employer side taxes are higher. Where do you think the money comes from to pay those taxes? From the employee in the form of lower wages.

Why do you think tax rates are higher in the UK? So not only do they earn less to begin with, but they get to keep less of it.

The effective marginal tax rate in the UK is almost 10% higher than that of the US. Let me ask you which is cheaper.

I make $20,000 a year, and my monthly health insurance premium is $76 a month.

10% of my income is $2,000 a year. Insurance is $912 a year. Which is cheaper according to math, instead of your opinion?

Maybe that's just me. Let's take the average US income $50,500, and the average insurance premium of $235.

10% of the average wage is $5,050 a year, and average insurance is $2,820. Which is cheaper according to math, instead of your opinion?

Paying 10% more in taxes, is vastly more expensive than our current system, no matter what other stats you come up with.

Oh, and before you bring it up, all those fees and additional costs here in the US... they all exist in the UK too. Fee for hospital stays, fees for various treatments. Fees for using a hospital telephone. Did you know that UK hospitals charge patients, and make a profit off of using the telephone?

You pass out, wake up at the hospital, and don't have your cell phone, sure you can call your wife... for a fee.... don't worry, we'll just add that to your hospital fees.

So this claim that it's so much cheaper.... I've been to the UK, and I have friends that live there now.... not seeing this "so much cheaper" system.

And the quality of care?

Number of patients waiting 36 weeks for NHS treatment triples - BBC News

Yeah, maybe.... if you live long enough to get it. Funny how when I look up medical tourism statistics, I always see the US on the list somewhere.... and that's to be expected. In a free-market competitive system, I would expect some Americans to go shopping in the market for a better deal.

But how do you explain Canada, UK, Europe, Australia, Japan, and all the other countries with "free" high quality health care? Why does India get more visitors from Canada and the UK for health care, than the US.... when as you claim they get free government paid for care, that is just as good as the US?

Why is Japan the biggest source of medical tourism for Korea, if their government care is so great?

Maybe all your crap is wrong? Just a thought.

we don't have socialized medicine except at the V.A. level and other than the glitches that occurred after bush privatized walter reed, which seem to be relatively under control now, most service members are very satisfied with their health care. the rest of us have HEALTH INSURANCE... which only enriches the insurance industry. or do you think it benefitted us when they didn't insure people because of pre-existing conditions but dumped you from your existing coverage when you got sick?

so your entire rant about waiting periods in britain are meaningless.... since... again... we don't have socialized medicine. now, also, people with money still get private health care even in countries where there is socialized medicine. now ask those people who do wait whether they'd prefer waiting or not having any medical care.

you people are so silly... everyone i know who lives with a socialized system of medicine is pretty happy about it. but that's not even what most people on the left want anyway... a single payor system where private doctors are paid by the government but not working FOR the government... kind of like the medicaid system works.

what isn't good is the system we have where we have amazing medical care but access is not available to everyone. we are the only civilized country in the world that does what we do and it costs more and gets less than anywhere else.

and that's just a crime. but wingers don't like to solve problems. they just like to rant because it benefits them politically with the wacky base.

The amazing medical care you talk about in the US does not lead to any real benefits. We do not have a longer life expectancy, nor do those who are sick have better outcomes than in other countries with universal care, but at least we can brag about how much we spend on healthcare, because it's a Hell of a lot more than anywhere else in the world. With what we pay for healthcare, our average life expectancy should be 100 years.

 

[Andylusion]

If you live at home, and you work a full time job, and go to school.... how can you not pay your way through college?

What heck are you blowing your money on? Columbus State Community College, in-state tuition rates.... $3,400 a year. Now what job are you working that you can't earn $3,400 a year? If you work 10 hours a day, minimum wage, you would earn $3,400 a year.

Now of course, that's not enough because of TAXES, which are so high because scummy left-wingers are taxing us to death to pay for their 'free' programs.

EVEN SO.... if you worked a massive 12 hours a week, you should still make more than enough to pay for school.

"well I don't want to live at home"... . that's fine. Do whatever you want. But why should I pay for it, because you don't want to live wisely?

"Well I want to join all the expensive student activities". Fine. Why should I pay for it?

"well I want to go to an expensive out of state college that ranks higher on the party list".... fine. Why should I pay for it?

This left-wing bull crap, about "no one should have to choose to get an education for their kids or not" is just garbage.

There are millions of ways to get free, or super low cost education. Millions. We have grants and scholarships out the wazoo, and all you have to do is apply for them, and have the grades.

If you don't have the grades, why would we pay to have someone go to college, when they are not likely to pass anyway?

The highest drop out rate is those people who go to college on pell grants. What's the point? Why are we even funding that?

Even you left-wing idiots, should be asking the question.... you tax us, and spend $30 Billion dollars a year, and the majority goes to students who drop out. And you want to pay for the entire thing free? How is that going to benefit anyone? It doesn't even benefit the students on the pell grants. Congrats, you failed.

Are they better off? No. Are we better off? No. Is society better off? No. So we're all worse off, all of us, even the people you claim to be supporting. Those people could have been moving on with their lives, instead of wasting their time, going to a college they had no chance of passing.

Oh, but no no, we need to make it free. That will solve everything. Except that with more and more money sucked out of the economy, there will be fewer jobs. But you people never care about that anyway.

Then we can end up like the UK, and when the money runs out.....

Brilliant move. That worked so well... let's do the same thing here.

1. i would never make my son live home for college. part of growing up is the experience of living at school. it was one of the best and most important things i ever did.
2. it is very difficult to get those entry level jobs because people who can work all day get them. no one wants to work around a college student's schedule, which, if the student is serious, is going to be very full.
3. a minimum wage, part time job does not pay for school.
4, you don't care about spending money... it's been shoveled into wars and tax relief for corporations if you cared about money 70 million wouldn't have been spent on investigating a blue dress or 20 million on something that is a contrived political hack job.

the UK mostly does just fine. thanks....it just gets screwed up when righties take over.

every other civilized nation provides health care and an education. it's only rightwingnut idiots who think those things have no value...

because jesus.

1. AGAIN.... That's fine! Pay for him to live at college. Why should *I* be forced to pay for your son to live at a college, simply because you are stuck up?

You can do anything you want buddy... *YOU PAY FOR IT*.

2. I worked TWO jobs when I was in college. In fact, my company right now has THREE interns, that are paid WELL ABOVE minimum wage, and we work around their scheduled constantly.

Walmart has tuition reimbursement, and they work around schedule ALL THE TIME. I know someone who did it! You are so full of crap. You just make up ANYTHING to support your BS position.

3. I just gave you the tuition fees. And I assume you can do math, so I don't have to explain to you how much minimum wage verses a part time shift. How does it not cover it?

4. The UK does not do fine. "Yeah they do fine, that's why people are rioting in the streets, and they are cutting funding year over year."

They run out of money, and you think "it's the righties!". What moron.

Maybe you can't do math. When you run out of money, it's not "righties"..... it's called math. The amount of money you have to spend, is less than the amount required for your 'free' education.

And quite frankly, all the "free" health care around the world, is neither free, nor good. But if you can't grasp the fact the UK doesn't have un-ending piles of money for education, then clearly you are too incompetent to know anything about 'free' health care either.

See, this is why socialism is tried over and over, even though 100% of the time it fails. No matter what happens, you don't bother with "Oh that's right, in order to buy something, you have to have the money for it".... no no.... it's "the righties!" Those darn righties. Math wouldn't be a problem if not for those darn calculators and the right-wingers that use them..... darn math... using.... conservative.... righties!

It's amazing I keep forgetting I'm talking left-wingers, where 1 + 1 is 11. "See? Two 1s by each other is 11. That's the left wing math. We can afford anything with our math."

Universal healthcare works very well in almost every country where it is available. You have been brainwashed into believing otherwise. Hybrid systems that allow for some private care seem to work the best as they guarantee good quality care for everyone and even better care for those who choose to pay extra. Now I'm sure you are going to come back and tell me just how bad all that socialized healthcare is in countries that you have never been to, but you will be wrong again. See, there are two specific things to look at, and that is cost and outcome. The overall outcome of people's health in the US is no better than any country with socialized healthcare, and in many cases the US is worse. That is a fact. Sure you may find one treatment that is slightly better in the US than in GB or Germany, but you will find the opposite true for other types of care. When you look at all of it, the best you could come to as a conclusion is that it is a wash, except for the other fact, and that other fact is that we in the US pay double what almost every other country pays for healthcare. Why is it we want to pay double what everyone else in the world pays for the same product? That's just stupid.

You people on the left keep 'saying' that socialized care works great in every country, but then when I look it up, it's never as great as you claim it is.

Yeah, a hybrid system is better than a completely socialized system. That's no surprise to us on the right. The more socialized it is, the worse it is. The more capitalist it is, the better it is. Logically, if it is a hybrid, it will be better than a pure socialized system.

The US is still better than any completely socialized system I've ever looked at. Is it getting worse? Yes. And the US health care is becoming more and more socialized.

Is their health care cheaper? In some ways... The quality of the care is lower, and lower care, results in a lower price. At the same time, I keep looking at the costs, and I don't see it being cheaper.

I remember reading one comparison with UKs National Health Service. Oh yes, NHS is far cheaper than our system. Is it? Only if you exclusively look at NHS taxes. Problem is, NHS isn't funded by the National Insurance tax. Not at all. 90% plus, of the NHS budget comes from the General revenue.

Why do you think UK wages are on average lower than US wages? Because employer side taxes are higher. Where do you think the money comes from to pay those taxes? From the employee in the form of lower wages.

Why do you think tax rates are higher in the UK? So not only do they earn less to begin with, but they get to keep less of it.

The effective marginal tax rate in the UK is almost 10% higher than that of the US. Let me ask you which is cheaper.

I make $20,000 a year, and my monthly health insurance premium is $76 a month.

10% of my income is $2,000 a year. Insurance is $912 a year. Which is cheaper according to math, instead of your opinion?

Maybe that's just me. Let's take the average US income $50,500, and the average insurance premium of $235.

10% of the average wage is $5,050 a year, and average insurance is $2,820. Which is cheaper according to math, instead of your opinion?

Paying 10% more in taxes, is vastly more expensive than our current system, no matter what other stats you come up with.

Oh, and before you bring it up, all those fees and additional costs here in the US... they all exist in the UK too. Fee for hospital stays, fees for various treatments. Fees for using a hospital telephone. Did you know that UK hospitals charge patients, and make a profit off of using the telephone?

You pass out, wake up at the hospital, and don't have your cell phone, sure you can call your wife... for a fee.... don't worry, we'll just add that to your hospital fees.

So this claim that it's so much cheaper.... I've been to the UK, and I have friends that live there now.... not seeing this "so much cheaper" system.

And the quality of care?

Number of patients waiting 36 weeks for NHS treatment triples - BBC News

Yeah, maybe.... if you live long enough to get it. Funny how when I look up medical tourism statistics, I always see the US on the list somewhere.... and that's to be expected. In a free-market competitive system, I would expect some Americans to go shopping in the market for a better deal.

But how do you explain Canada, UK, Europe, Australia, Japan, and all the other countries with "free" high quality health care? Why does India get more visitors from Canada and the UK for health care, than the US.... when as you claim they get free government paid for care, that is just as good as the US?

Why is Japan the biggest source of medical tourism for Korea, if their government care is so great?

Maybe all your crap is wrong? Just a thought.

we don't have socialized medicine except at the V.A. level and other than the glitches that occurred after bush privatized walter reed, which seem to be relatively under control now, most service members are very satisfied with their health care. the rest of us have HEALTH INSURANCE... which only enriches the insurance industry. or do you think it benefitted us when they didn't insure people because of pre-existing conditions but dumped you from your existing coverage when you got sick?

so your entire rant about waiting periods in britain are meaningless.... since... again... we don't have socialized medicine. now, also, people with money still get private health care even in countries where there is socialized medicine. now ask those people who do wait whether they'd prefer waiting or not having any medical care.

you people are so silly... everyone i know who lives with a socialized system of medicine is pretty happy about it. but that's not even what most people on the left want anyway... a single payor system where private doctors are paid by the government but not working FOR the government... kind of like the medicaid system works.

what isn't good is the system we have where we have amazing medical care but access is not available to everyone. we are the only civilized country in the world that does what we do and it costs more and gets less than anywhere else.

and that's just a crime. but wingers don't like to solve problems. they just like to rant because it benefits them politically with the wacky base.

So happy that they are willing to pay money for health care in another country?

If everyone was so happy, then Canada wouldn't have a company called Timely Medical which specializes in helping Canadians escape their "happy health care system".

Timely Medical Alternatives | Timely Surgery at Affordable Prices

After all, their system is 'free', so how could they possibly be willing to pay thousands of dollars to go elsewhere for care?

Medicare is socialized. Health insurance, with it's millions of government regulations and laws, is heavily socialized. The VA is socialized, and the hundreds of government funded clinics and hospitals are all socialized. Medicaid is also socialized.

And the VA system had problems long before Walter Reed, and since.

Some Veterans' Hospitals in Shocking Shape

This article came out in 2014, and ABC had an undercover report exposing the incompetence at VA hospitals back then. You can't blame that on Bush, as you always do with or without justification.

Now read what they found last year:

Veterans who responded to a survey by the American Legion in 2003 said it took an average of seven months to get a first appointment at a VA hospital. In some hospitals, patients have waited as long as two years.

In 1999, Jack Christensen, a former army sergeant who served in the Korean War, was admitted to the VA hospital in Temple, Texas, with pneumonia, and ended up staying three years.

Christensen's wife, Pat, says the attitude of some of the practical nurses was shocking. Some of the patients were forced to beg for food and water, she says. Instead of helping her husband go to the bathroom, she said, "they would put a towel under his hips and tell him to use the towel."​

This is a system the majority think is great? Begging for food? Being treated like a dog? Waiting 7 months, to 2 years?

Every vet I meet, says the last place they would go, is a VA hospital. My whole family is military, and extended family is military, and their friends are military. I have yet to meet one person, just one out of dozens, that says they would go to a VA hospital if there was any other choice. Not ONE.

And the experience these people above are having, mirrors the experience that other people in most socialized systems have.

Including here in the. Contrary to your ignorant claim, we have a massive network of government paid for clinics. The reason the left pretends they don't exist, is because they suck. If everyone went to these socialized gov-care clinics, the movement to socialized care would be dead.

In 2008, worker for the DNC convention got ill, and wrote a blog post called Healthcare: A Tale of Two ERs. I have a screen shot of the blog here.

The blog post was removed, because I pointed out that it proved how bad socialized care was.

The worker was sent by the DNC contacts to a Denver publicly funded clinic. The place was a wreck, the service was terrible, the staff treated them like crap, the AC didn't work, and it was muggy inside. The place was a nightmare. Exactly the way the ABC story describes the VA hospital experience as reported by veterans.

She ended up walking out after several hours without seeing anyone. She asked for a private clinic, they saw her right away, got her a prescription, people were kind and friendly, the place was clean and in working order. They even found out she was not from Denver and had a map printed out with clear directions on how to get to the nearest pharmacy.

But... she had to pay for it. Capitalism. The other place.... that was socialism.

Of course, being that she was a mindless democrat, despite all that happened to her, and the horrible experience she went through at the socialized clinic... she said "if only republicans would allow it, we could have good socialized care".

And I expect nothing more thoughtful in your response either.

 

[Andylusion]

1. AGAIN.... That's fine! Pay for him to live at college. Why should *I* be forced to pay for your son to live at a college, simply because you are stuck up?

You can do anything you want buddy... *YOU PAY FOR IT*.

2. I worked TWO jobs when I was in college. In fact, my company right now has THREE interns, that are paid WELL ABOVE minimum wage, and we work around their scheduled constantly.

Walmart has tuition reimbursement, and they work around schedule ALL THE TIME. I know someone who did it! You are so full of crap. You just make up ANYTHING to support your BS position.

3. I just gave you the tuition fees. And I assume you can do math, so I don't have to explain to you how much minimum wage verses a part time shift. How does it not cover it?

4. The UK does not do fine. "Yeah they do fine, that's why people are rioting in the streets, and they are cutting funding year over year."

They run out of money, and you think "it's the righties!". What moron.

Maybe you can't do math. When you run out of money, it's not "righties"..... it's called math. The amount of money you have to spend, is less than the amount required for your 'free' education.

And quite frankly, all the "free" health care around the world, is neither free, nor good. But if you can't grasp the fact the UK doesn't have un-ending piles of money for education, then clearly you are too incompetent to know anything about 'free' health care either.

See, this is why socialism is tried over and over, even though 100% of the time it fails. No matter what happens, you don't bother with "Oh that's right, in order to buy something, you have to have the money for it".... no no.... it's "the righties!" Those darn righties. Math wouldn't be a problem if not for those darn calculators and the right-wingers that use them..... darn math... using.... conservative.... righties!

It's amazing I keep forgetting I'm talking left-wingers, where 1 + 1 is 11. "See? Two 1s by each other is 11. That's the left wing math. We can afford anything with our math."

Universal healthcare works very well in almost every country where it is available. You have been brainwashed into believing otherwise. Hybrid systems that allow for some private care seem to work the best as they guarantee good quality care for everyone and even better care for those who choose to pay extra. Now I'm sure you are going to come back and tell me just how bad all that socialized healthcare is in countries that you have never been to, but you will be wrong again. See, there are two specific things to look at, and that is cost and outcome. The overall outcome of people's health in the US is no better than any country with socialized healthcare, and in many cases the US is worse. That is a fact. Sure you may find one treatment that is slightly better in the US than in GB or Germany, but you will find the opposite true for other types of care. When you look at all of it, the best you could come to as a conclusion is that it is a wash, except for the other fact, and that other fact is that we in the US pay double what almost every other country pays for healthcare. Why is it we want to pay double what everyone else in the world pays for the same product? That's just stupid.

You people on the left keep 'saying' that socialized care works great in every country, but then when I look it up, it's never as great as you claim it is.

Yeah, a hybrid system is better than a completely socialized system. That's no surprise to us on the right. The more socialized it is, the worse it is. The more capitalist it is, the better it is. Logically, if it is a hybrid, it will be better than a pure socialized system.

The US is still better than any completely socialized system I've ever looked at. Is it getting worse? Yes. And the US health care is becoming more and more socialized.

Is their health care cheaper? In some ways... The quality of the care is lower, and lower care, results in a lower price. At the same time, I keep looking at the costs, and I don't see it being cheaper.

I remember reading one comparison with UKs National Health Service. Oh yes, NHS is far cheaper than our system. Is it? Only if you exclusively look at NHS taxes. Problem is, NHS isn't funded by the National Insurance tax. Not at all. 90% plus, of the NHS budget comes from the General revenue.

Why do you think UK wages are on average lower than US wages? Because employer side taxes are higher. Where do you think the money comes from to pay those taxes? From the employee in the form of lower wages.

Why do you think tax rates are higher in the UK? So not only do they earn less to begin with, but they get to keep less of it.

The effective marginal tax rate in the UK is almost 10% higher than that of the US. Let me ask you which is cheaper.

I make $20,000 a year, and my monthly health insurance premium is $76 a month.

10% of my income is $2,000 a year. Insurance is $912 a year. Which is cheaper according to math, instead of your opinion?

Maybe that's just me. Let's take the average US income $50,500, and the average insurance premium of $235.

10% of the average wage is $5,050 a year, and average insurance is $2,820. Which is cheaper according to math, instead of your opinion?

Paying 10% more in taxes, is vastly more expensive than our current system, no matter what other stats you come up with.

Oh, and before you bring it up, all those fees and additional costs here in the US... they all exist in the UK too. Fee for hospital stays, fees for various treatments. Fees for using a hospital telephone. Did you know that UK hospitals charge patients, and make a profit off of using the telephone?

You pass out, wake up at the hospital, and don't have your cell phone, sure you can call your wife... for a fee.... don't worry, we'll just add that to your hospital fees.

So this claim that it's so much cheaper.... I've been to the UK, and I have friends that live there now.... not seeing this "so much cheaper" system.

And the quality of care?

Number of patients waiting 36 weeks for NHS treatment triples - BBC News

Yeah, maybe.... if you live long enough to get it. Funny how when I look up medical tourism statistics, I always see the US on the list somewhere.... and that's to be expected. In a free-market competitive system, I would expect some Americans to go shopping in the market for a better deal.

But how do you explain Canada, UK, Europe, Australia, Japan, and all the other countries with "free" high quality health care? Why does India get more visitors from Canada and the UK for health care, than the US.... when as you claim they get free government paid for care, that is just as good as the US?

Why is Japan the biggest source of medical tourism for Korea, if their government care is so great?

Maybe all your crap is wrong? Just a thought.

we don't have socialized medicine except at the V.A. level and other than the glitches that occurred after bush privatized walter reed, which seem to be relatively under control now, most service members are very satisfied with their health care. the rest of us have HEALTH INSURANCE... which only enriches the insurance industry. or do you think it benefitted us when they didn't insure people because of pre-existing conditions but dumped you from your existing coverage when you got sick?

so your entire rant about waiting periods in britain are meaningless.... since... again... we don't have socialized medicine. now, also, people with money still get private health care even in countries where there is socialized medicine. now ask those people who do wait whether they'd prefer waiting or not having any medical care.

you people are so silly... everyone i know who lives with a socialized system of medicine is pretty happy about it. but that's not even what most people on the left want anyway... a single payor system where private doctors are paid by the government but not working FOR the government... kind of like the medicaid system works.

what isn't good is the system we have where we have amazing medical care but access is not available to everyone. we are the only civilized country in the world that does what we do and it costs more and gets less than anywhere else.

and that's just a crime. but wingers don't like to solve problems. they just like to rant because it benefits them politically with the wacky base.

When subsidies funded by someone other than the person receiving them in order to be able to purchased healthcare INSURANCE, it's socialized.

When someone uses MEDICAID, a healthcare INSURANCE funded by others, it's socialized.

Access is available to everyone. You're equating access and ability to pay. If someone can't afford to pay, write a check on their behalf. That means if you claim someone didn't have access because they couldn't and you, someone that believes the person should have it doesn't pay for them yourself, you've denied them access. YOU say they have a right to it but YOU won't fund it for them yourself.

Lefties answer to solving anything they see as a problem is to let the government handle it and that involves someone else getting stuck with the bill while those benefiting from whatever it is not contributing to the cause. Food stamps is a prime example. If you know of someone that doesn't have money to buy food, buy it for them. I'll do the same in situations where I determine there is a need. What I won't do is determine on your behalf when one occurs but you can't say the same thing.

Yes, let's put an end to food stamps and send everyone who needs them over to your house so you can feed them.

Funny, we pretty much did that. It was the welfare reform the republicans pushed through in 1996. Interestingly, after kicking millions off food stamps... they didn't come over to your house... they just got a job, and started contributing to society, instead of sucking the blood out of it.

So, I'm for that plan. Let's do it again.

 

[Conservative65]

Universal healthcare works very well in almost every country where it is available. You have been brainwashed into believing otherwise. Hybrid systems that allow for some private care seem to work the best as they guarantee good quality care for everyone and even better care for those who choose to pay extra. Now I'm sure you are going to come back and tell me just how bad all that socialized healthcare is in countries that you have never been to, but you will be wrong again. See, there are two specific things to look at, and that is cost and outcome. The overall outcome of people's health in the US is no better than any country with socialized healthcare, and in many cases the US is worse. That is a fact. Sure you may find one treatment that is slightly better in the US than in GB or Germany, but you will find the opposite true for other types of care. When you look at all of it, the best you could come to as a conclusion is that it is a wash, except for the other fact, and that other fact is that we in the US pay double what almost every other country pays for healthcare. Why is it we want to pay double what everyone else in the world pays for the same product? That's just stupid.

You people on the left keep 'saying' that socialized care works great in every country, but then when I look it up, it's never as great as you claim it is.

Yeah, a hybrid system is better than a completely socialized system. That's no surprise to us on the right. The more socialized it is, the worse it is. The more capitalist it is, the better it is. Logically, if it is a hybrid, it will be better than a pure socialized system.

The US is still better than any completely socialized system I've ever looked at. Is it getting worse? Yes. And the US health care is becoming more and more socialized.

Is their health care cheaper? In some ways... The quality of the care is lower, and lower care, results in a lower price. At the same time, I keep looking at the costs, and I don't see it being cheaper.

I remember reading one comparison with UKs National Health Service. Oh yes, NHS is far cheaper than our system. Is it? Only if you exclusively look at NHS taxes. Problem is, NHS isn't funded by the National Insurance tax. Not at all. 90% plus, of the NHS budget comes from the General revenue.

Why do you think UK wages are on average lower than US wages? Because employer side taxes are higher. Where do you think the money comes from to pay those taxes? From the employee in the form of lower wages.

Why do you think tax rates are higher in the UK? So not only do they earn less to begin with, but they get to keep less of it.

The effective marginal tax rate in the UK is almost 10% higher than that of the US. Let me ask you which is cheaper.

I make $20,000 a year, and my monthly health insurance premium is $76 a month.

10% of my income is $2,000 a year. Insurance is $912 a year. Which is cheaper according to math, instead of your opinion?

Maybe that's just me. Let's take the average US income $50,500, and the average insurance premium of $235.

10% of the average wage is $5,050 a year, and average insurance is $2,820. Which is cheaper according to math, instead of your opinion?

Paying 10% more in taxes, is vastly more expensive than our current system, no matter what other stats you come up with.

Oh, and before you bring it up, all those fees and additional costs here in the US... they all exist in the UK too. Fee for hospital stays, fees for various treatments. Fees for using a hospital telephone. Did you know that UK hospitals charge patients, and make a profit off of using the telephone?

You pass out, wake up at the hospital, and don't have your cell phone, sure you can call your wife... for a fee.... don't worry, we'll just add that to your hospital fees.

So this claim that it's so much cheaper.... I've been to the UK, and I have friends that live there now.... not seeing this "so much cheaper" system.

And the quality of care?

Number of patients waiting 36 weeks for NHS treatment triples - BBC News

Yeah, maybe.... if you live long enough to get it. Funny how when I look up medical tourism statistics, I always see the US on the list somewhere.... and that's to be expected. In a free-market competitive system, I would expect some Americans to go shopping in the market for a better deal.

But how do you explain Canada, UK, Europe, Australia, Japan, and all the other countries with "free" high quality health care? Why does India get more visitors from Canada and the UK for health care, than the US.... when as you claim they get free government paid for care, that is just as good as the US?

Why is Japan the biggest source of medical tourism for Korea, if their government care is so great?

Maybe all your crap is wrong? Just a thought.

we don't have socialized medicine except at the V.A. level and other than the glitches that occurred after bush privatized walter reed, which seem to be relatively under control now, most service members are very satisfied with their health care. the rest of us have HEALTH INSURANCE... which only enriches the insurance industry. or do you think it benefitted us when they didn't insure people because of pre-existing conditions but dumped you from your existing coverage when you got sick?

so your entire rant about waiting periods in britain are meaningless.... since... again... we don't have socialized medicine. now, also, people with money still get private health care even in countries where there is socialized medicine. now ask those people who do wait whether they'd prefer waiting or not having any medical care.

you people are so silly... everyone i know who lives with a socialized system of medicine is pretty happy about it. but that's not even what most people on the left want anyway... a single payor system where private doctors are paid by the government but not working FOR the government... kind of like the medicaid system works.

what isn't good is the system we have where we have amazing medical care but access is not available to everyone. we are the only civilized country in the world that does what we do and it costs more and gets less than anywhere else.

and that's just a crime. but wingers don't like to solve problems. they just like to rant because it benefits them politically with the wacky base.

When subsidies funded by someone other than the person receiving them in order to be able to purchased healthcare INSURANCE, it's socialized.

When someone uses MEDICAID, a healthcare INSURANCE funded by others, it's socialized.

Access is available to everyone. You're equating access and ability to pay. If someone can't afford to pay, write a check on their behalf. That means if you claim someone didn't have access because they couldn't and you, someone that believes the person should have it doesn't pay for them yourself, you've denied them access. YOU say they have a right to it but YOU won't fund it for them yourself.

Lefties answer to solving anything they see as a problem is to let the government handle it and that involves someone else getting stuck with the bill while those benefiting from whatever it is not contributing to the cause. Food stamps is a prime example. If you know of someone that doesn't have money to buy food, buy it for them. I'll do the same in situations where I determine there is a need. What I won't do is determine on your behalf when one occurs but you can't say the same thing.

Yes, let's put an end to food stamps and send everyone who needs them over to your house so you can feed them.

Funny, we pretty much did that. It was the welfare reform the republicans pushed through in 1996. Interestingly, after kicking millions off food stamps... they didn't come over to your house... they just got a job, and started contributing to society, instead of sucking the blood out of it.

So, I'm for that plan. Let's do it again.

Depends on the job they got whether they actually contributed to society. If they didn't make much, they still didn't contribute to the income tax pot.

 

[Conservative65]

1. AGAIN.... That's fine! Pay for him to live at college. Why should *I* be forced to pay for your son to live at a college, simply because you are stuck up?

You can do anything you want buddy... *YOU PAY FOR IT*.

2. I worked TWO jobs when I was in college. In fact, my company right now has THREE interns, that are paid WELL ABOVE minimum wage, and we work around their scheduled constantly.

Walmart has tuition reimbursement, and they work around schedule ALL THE TIME. I know someone who did it! You are so full of crap. You just make up ANYTHING to support your BS position.

3. I just gave you the tuition fees. And I assume you can do math, so I don't have to explain to you how much minimum wage verses a part time shift. How does it not cover it?

4. The UK does not do fine. "Yeah they do fine, that's why people are rioting in the streets, and they are cutting funding year over year."

They run out of money, and you think "it's the righties!". What moron.

Maybe you can't do math. When you run out of money, it's not "righties"..... it's called math. The amount of money you have to spend, is less than the amount required for your 'free' education.

And quite frankly, all the "free" health care around the world, is neither free, nor good. But if you can't grasp the fact the UK doesn't have un-ending piles of money for education, then clearly you are too incompetent to know anything about 'free' health care either.

See, this is why socialism is tried over and over, even though 100% of the time it fails. No matter what happens, you don't bother with "Oh that's right, in order to buy something, you have to have the money for it".... no no.... it's "the righties!" Those darn righties. Math wouldn't be a problem if not for those darn calculators and the right-wingers that use them..... darn math... using.... conservative.... righties!

It's amazing I keep forgetting I'm talking left-wingers, where 1 + 1 is 11. "See? Two 1s by each other is 11. That's the left wing math. We can afford anything with our math."

Universal healthcare works very well in almost every country where it is available. You have been brainwashed into believing otherwise. Hybrid systems that allow for some private care seem to work the best as they guarantee good quality care for everyone and even better care for those who choose to pay extra. Now I'm sure you are going to come back and tell me just how bad all that socialized healthcare is in countries that you have never been to, but you will be wrong again. See, there are two specific things to look at, and that is cost and outcome. The overall outcome of people's health in the US is no better than any country with socialized healthcare, and in many cases the US is worse. That is a fact. Sure you may find one treatment that is slightly better in the US than in GB or Germany, but you will find the opposite true for other types of care. When you look at all of it, the best you could come to as a conclusion is that it is a wash, except for the other fact, and that other fact is that we in the US pay double what almost every other country pays for healthcare. Why is it we want to pay double what everyone else in the world pays for the same product? That's just stupid.

You people on the left keep 'saying' that socialized care works great in every country, but then when I look it up, it's never as great as you claim it is.

Yeah, a hybrid system is better than a completely socialized system. That's no surprise to us on the right. The more socialized it is, the worse it is. The more capitalist it is, the better it is. Logically, if it is a hybrid, it will be better than a pure socialized system.

The US is still better than any completely socialized system I've ever looked at. Is it getting worse? Yes. And the US health care is becoming more and more socialized.

Is their health care cheaper? In some ways... The quality of the care is lower, and lower care, results in a lower price. At the same time, I keep looking at the costs, and I don't see it being cheaper.

I remember reading one comparison with UKs National Health Service. Oh yes, NHS is far cheaper than our system. Is it? Only if you exclusively look at NHS taxes. Problem is, NHS isn't funded by the National Insurance tax. Not at all. 90% plus, of the NHS budget comes from the General revenue.

Why do you think UK wages are on average lower than US wages? Because employer side taxes are higher. Where do you think the money comes from to pay those taxes? From the employee in the form of lower wages.

Why do you think tax rates are higher in the UK? So not only do they earn less to begin with, but they get to keep less of it.

The effective marginal tax rate in the UK is almost 10% higher than that of the US. Let me ask you which is cheaper.

I make $20,000 a year, and my monthly health insurance premium is $76 a month.

10% of my income is $2,000 a year. Insurance is $912 a year. Which is cheaper according to math, instead of your opinion?

Maybe that's just me. Let's take the average US income $50,500, and the average insurance premium of $235.

10% of the average wage is $5,050 a year, and average insurance is $2,820. Which is cheaper according to math, instead of your opinion?

Paying 10% more in taxes, is vastly more expensive than our current system, no matter what other stats you come up with.

Oh, and before you bring it up, all those fees and additional costs here in the US... they all exist in the UK too. Fee for hospital stays, fees for various treatments. Fees for using a hospital telephone. Did you know that UK hospitals charge patients, and make a profit off of using the telephone?

You pass out, wake up at the hospital, and don't have your cell phone, sure you can call your wife... for a fee.... don't worry, we'll just add that to your hospital fees.

So this claim that it's so much cheaper.... I've been to the UK, and I have friends that live there now.... not seeing this "so much cheaper" system.

And the quality of care?

Number of patients waiting 36 weeks for NHS treatment triples - BBC News

Yeah, maybe.... if you live long enough to get it. Funny how when I look up medical tourism statistics, I always see the US on the list somewhere.... and that's to be expected. In a free-market competitive system, I would expect some Americans to go shopping in the market for a better deal.

But how do you explain Canada, UK, Europe, Australia, Japan, and all the other countries with "free" high quality health care? Why does India get more visitors from Canada and the UK for health care, than the US.... when as you claim they get free government paid for care, that is just as good as the US?

Why is Japan the biggest source of medical tourism for Korea, if their government care is so great?

Maybe all your crap is wrong? Just a thought.

we don't have socialized medicine except at the V.A. level and other than the glitches that occurred after bush privatized walter reed, which seem to be relatively under control now, most service members are very satisfied with their health care. the rest of us have HEALTH INSURANCE... which only enriches the insurance industry. or do you think it benefitted us when they didn't insure people because of pre-existing conditions but dumped you from your existing coverage when you got sick?

so your entire rant about waiting periods in britain are meaningless.... since... again... we don't have socialized medicine. now, also, people with money still get private health care even in countries where there is socialized medicine. now ask those people who do wait whether they'd prefer waiting or not having any medical care.

you people are so silly... everyone i know who lives with a socialized system of medicine is pretty happy about it. but that's not even what most people on the left want anyway... a single payor system where private doctors are paid by the government but not working FOR the government... kind of like the medicaid system works.

what isn't good is the system we have where we have amazing medical care but access is not available to everyone. we are the only civilized country in the world that does what we do and it costs more and gets less than anywhere else.

and that's just a crime. but wingers don't like to solve problems. they just like to rant because it benefits them politically with the wacky base.

When subsidies funded by someone other than the person receiving them in order to be able to purchased healthcare INSURANCE, it's socialized.

When someone uses MEDICAID, a healthcare INSURANCE funded by others, it's socialized.

Access is available to everyone. You're equating access and ability to pay. If someone can't afford to pay, write a check on their behalf. That means if you claim someone didn't have access because they couldn't and you, someone that believes the person should have it doesn't pay for them yourself, you've denied them access. YOU say they have a right to it but YOU won't fund it for them yourself.

Lefties answer to solving anything they see as a problem is to let the government handle it and that involves someone else getting stuck with the bill while those benefiting from whatever it is not contributing to the cause. Food stamps is a prime example. If you know of someone that doesn't have money to buy food, buy it for them. I'll do the same in situations where I determine there is a need. What I won't do is determine on your behalf when one occurs but you can't say the same thing.

Yes, let's put an end to food stamps and send everyone who needs them over to your house so you can feed them.

That involves someone else determining whether their need is legitimate on my behalf. Send them over. If I see that their need is a legitimate one based on MY standards, I'll help. If I don't, too bad.

 

[Arianrhod]

The really amusing part of this thread is that everyone posting here is using social media (same Latin root word) to access free stuff (i.e., posting on a message board without paying for it).

Now the Usual Suspects will come back with "No it isn't, because Reasons!"

 

[the_human_being]

Well, the Liberals will tune in tonight to view the Republican Debate. Following the debate, they will jump onto USMB and pick apart all the Republican candidates, especially Carson and Trump. Can't blame them really. There is nothing worth comment coming from any of the Democrat candidates, just the same old tired and worn rhetoric from all the past Democrat debates in history - more taxes and more freebies. DULL!!

 

[Arianrhod]

Well, the Liberals will tune in tonight to view the Republican Debate. Following the debate, they will jump onto USMB and pick apart all the Republican candidates, especially Carson and Trump.

Will Carson and Trump actually be there? Earlier Trump said he'd be sitting this one out because he didn't like the moderators' questions last time, and Carson was reportedly taking time off to sell books.

There is nothing worth comment coming from any of the Democrat candidates, just the same old tired and worn rhetoric from all the past Democrat debates in history - more taxes and more freebies. DULL!!

Yeah, issues can be dull if you're expecting name-calling and mud-slinging. Maybe you can watch reruns of Survivor or something.

 

[TNHarley]

The really amusing part of this thread is that everyone posting here is using social media (same Latin root word) to access free stuff (i.e., posting on a message board without paying for it).

Now the Usual Suspects will come back with "No it isn't, because Reasons!"

You are equating society with an economic theory? LMAO

 

[Arianrhod]

The really amusing part of this thread is that everyone posting here is using social media (same Latin root word) to access free stuff (i.e., posting on a message board without paying for it).

Now the Usual Suspects will come back with "No it isn't, because Reasons!"

You are equating society with an economic theory?

No, I'm discussing word origins. "Society" is another word derived from the same Latin root as "socialism." Care to try for a third?

 

[the_human_being]

Well, the Liberals will tune in tonight to view the Republican Debate. Following the debate, they will jump onto USMB and pick apart all the Republican candidates, especially Carson and Trump.

Will Carson and Trump actually be there? Earlier Trump said he'd be sitting this one out because he didn't like the moderators' questions last time, and Carson was reportedly taking time off to sell books.

There is nothing worth comment coming from any of the Democrat candidates, just the same old tired and worn rhetoric from all the past Democrat debates in history - more taxes and more freebies. DULL!!

Yeah, issues can be dull if you're expecting name-calling and mud-slinging. Maybe you can watch reruns of Survivor or something.

Well, I'm sure you will be all ears tonight with the Repub debate and back on here picking them apart right after. I don't fault you though since all Bernie wants to do is raise taxes.

 

[Arianrhod]

Well, the Liberals will tune in tonight to view the Republican Debate. Following the debate, they will jump onto USMB and pick apart all the Republican candidates, especially Carson and Trump.

Will Carson and Trump actually be there? Earlier Trump said he'd be sitting this one out because he didn't like the moderators' questions last time, and Carson was reportedly taking time off to sell books.

There is nothing worth comment coming from any of the Democrat candidates, just the same old tired and worn rhetoric from all the past Democrat debates in history - more taxes and more freebies. DULL!!

Yeah, issues can be dull if you're expecting name-calling and mud-slinging. Maybe you can watch reruns of Survivor or something.

Well, I'm sure you will be all ears tonight with the Repub debate and back on here picking them apart right after.

Nah, I'm more interested in addressing their proposed "policies" than watching a "reality" show.

 

[the_human_being]

Well, the Liberals will tune in tonight to view the Republican Debate. Following the debate, they will jump onto USMB and pick apart all the Republican candidates, especially Carson and Trump.

Will Carson and Trump actually be there? Earlier Trump said he'd be sitting this one out because he didn't like the moderators' questions last time, and Carson was reportedly taking time off to sell books.

There is nothing worth comment coming from any of the Democrat candidates, just the same old tired and worn rhetoric from all the past Democrat debates in history - more taxes and more freebies. DULL!!

Yeah, issues can be dull if you're expecting name-calling and mud-slinging. Maybe you can watch reruns of Survivor or something.

Well, I'm sure you will be all ears tonight with the Repub debate and back on here picking them apart right after.

Nah, I'm more interested in addressing their proposed "policies" than watching a "reality" show.

Don't come on here asking "link", "link" link" if you're not going to watch it.

 

[Arianrhod]

Well, the Liberals will tune in tonight to view the Republican Debate. Following the debate, they will jump onto USMB and pick apart all the Republican candidates, especially Carson and Trump.

Will Carson and Trump actually be there? Earlier Trump said he'd be sitting this one out because he didn't like the moderators' questions last time, and Carson was reportedly taking time off to sell books.

There is nothing worth comment coming from any of the Democrat candidates, just the same old tired and worn rhetoric from all the past Democrat debates in history - more taxes and more freebies. DULL!!

Yeah, issues can be dull if you're expecting name-calling and mud-slinging. Maybe you can watch reruns of Survivor or something.

Well, I'm sure you will be all ears tonight with the Repub debate and back on here picking them apart right after.

Nah, I'm more interested in addressing their proposed "policies" than watching a "reality" show.

Don't come on here asking "link", "link" link" if you're not going to watch it.

Did I do that for any of the previous debates? No, I did not.

If I want information, I'll find a transcript and link you people to it, since so many of you seem to hear what you want to hear, not what's actually said.

 

[the_human_being]

Well, the Liberals will tune in tonight to view the Republican Debate. Following the debate, they will jump onto USMB and pick apart all the Republican candidates, especially Carson and Trump.

Will Carson and Trump actually be there? Earlier Trump said he'd be sitting this one out because he didn't like the moderators' questions last time, and Carson was reportedly taking time off to sell books.

There is nothing worth comment coming from any of the Democrat candidates, just the same old tired and worn rhetoric from all the past Democrat debates in history - more taxes and more freebies. DULL!!

Yeah, issues can be dull if you're expecting name-calling and mud-slinging. Maybe you can watch reruns of Survivor or something.

Well, I'm sure you will be all ears tonight with the Repub debate and back on here picking them apart right after.

Nah, I'm more interested in addressing their proposed "policies" than watching a "reality" show.

Don't come on here asking "link", "link" link" if you're not going to watch it.

Did I do that for any of the previous debates? No, I did not.

If I want information, I'll find a transcript and link you people to it, since so many of you seem to hear what you want to hear, not what's actually said.

I thought I already told you to go ahead and vote Democrat that we Repubs don't want you.

 

[Arianrhod]

Will Carson and Trump actually be there? Earlier Trump said he'd be sitting this one out because he didn't like the moderators' questions last time, and Carson was reportedly taking time off to sell books.

Yeah, issues can be dull if you're expecting name-calling and mud-slinging. Maybe you can watch reruns of Survivor or something.

Well, I'm sure you will be all ears tonight with the Repub debate and back on here picking them apart right after.

Nah, I'm more interested in addressing their proposed "policies" than watching a "reality" show.

Don't come on here asking "link", "link" link" if you're not going to watch it.

Did I do that for any of the previous debates? No, I did not.

If I want information, I'll find a transcript and link you people to it, since so many of you seem to hear what you want to hear, not what's actually said.

I thought I already told you to go ahead and vote Democrat that we Repubs don't want you.

No, you told that to someone else. You need to keep your Enemies List straight.

Anyway, I will find a transcript tomorrow and link y'all to it for when one side starts picking the debate apart and the other resorts to its YouTube skillz.

You can thank me later.

 

[the_human_being]

Well, I'm sure you will be all ears tonight with the Repub debate and back on here picking them apart right after.

Nah, I'm more interested in addressing their proposed "policies" than watching a "reality" show.

Don't come on here asking "link", "link" link" if you're not going to watch it.

Did I do that for any of the previous debates? No, I did not.

If I want information, I'll find a transcript and link you people to it, since so many of you seem to hear what you want to hear, not what's actually said.

I thought I already told you to go ahead and vote Democrat that we Repubs don't want you.

No, you told that to someone else. You need to keep your Enemies List straight.

Anyway, I will find a transcript tomorrow and link y'all to it for when one side starts picking the debate apart and the other resorts to its YouTube skillz.

You can thank me later.

Be sure and hold your breath.

 

[Arianrhod]

Nah, I'm more interested in addressing their proposed "policies" than watching a "reality" show.

Don't come on here asking "link", "link" link" if you're not going to watch it.

Did I do that for any of the previous debates? No, I did not.

If I want information, I'll find a transcript and link you people to it, since so many of you seem to hear what you want to hear, not what's actually said.

I thought I already told you to go ahead and vote Democrat that we Repubs don't want you.

No, you told that to someone else. You need to keep your Enemies List straight.

Anyway, I will find a transcript tomorrow and link y'all to it for when one side starts picking the debate apart and the other resorts to its YouTube skillz.

You can thank me later.

Be sure and hold your breath.

So you're saying "We don't need no stinkin' facts about the debate or anything else and fuck you for attempting to provide them"? Yeah, I figured that out the first day here.