Bernie preaches about free stuff..

[Andylusion]

but doesn't donate anything to charity?
In fact when I did thishttp://www.bing.com/search?q=does%20bernie%20sanders%20donate%20money%20to%20the%20unfortunate%3F&qs=n&form=QBRE&pq=does%20bernie%20sanders%20donate%20money%20to%20the%20unfortunate%3F&sc=0-27&sp=-1&sk=&cvid=ECD6614E1AAC48F79A042A35D467D7A9
bernie sanders and charity - Bing
All I got was a way to donate to HIM and unrelated things.
How can someone preach about giving away all this stuff, when he HIMSELF doesn't do it? If he cant do it willingly, what gives him the right to want to FORCE everyone else?

how many threads do we need on this subject, hon?

i'm sorry you think doing the right thing is about "free stuff".

me? I don't want to have to live behind barbed wire like anyone with money has to do in the banana republics.

you can't have the kind of disparity in wealth that we're having here. and it's a matter of good public policy to say everyone should have a leg up if they need it.

It is, isn't it? He said it plain as day.
I honestly don't have a problem with free education, but I still think he is a hypocrite. Most people that support that stuff is, it seems like.
Barbed wire? Banana Republics? That's a little far fetched isn't it?

no. it really isn't about "free stuff". it's about doing the right thing at a core societal level. the whole "free stuff" thing is what you've been sold by people who have an interest in maintaining the disparity. me? I want everyone to be educated if they want to be. I want everyone to have health care. no one in the wealthiest country in the world should have to choose between eating and getting their medication. and no parent should have to deny an education to their child because they can't afford it.

in the old days, you could work your way through school. school is so expensive now that even if the low-wage jobs aren't taken by old people (courtesy of the economic crash of '08), it won't cover the cost of tuition.

If you live at home, and you work a full time job, and go to school.... how can you not pay your way through college?

What heck are you blowing your money on? Columbus State Community College, in-state tuition rates.... $3,400 a year. Now what job are you working that you can't earn $3,400 a year? If you work 10 hours a day, minimum wage, you would earn $3,400 a year.

Now of course, that's not enough because of TAXES, which are so high because scummy left-wingers are taxing us to death to pay for their 'free' programs.

EVEN SO.... if you worked a massive 12 hours a week, you should still make more than enough to pay for school.

"well I don't want to live at home"... . that's fine. Do whatever you want. But why should I pay for it, because you don't want to live wisely?

"Well I want to join all the expensive student activities". Fine. Why should I pay for it?

"well I want to go to an expensive out of state college that ranks higher on the party list".... fine. Why should I pay for it?

This left-wing bull crap, about "no one should have to choose to get an education for their kids or not" is just garbage.

There are millions of ways to get free, or super low cost education. Millions. We have grants and scholarships out the wazoo, and all you have to do is apply for them, and have the grades.

If you don't have the grades, why would we pay to have someone go to college, when they are not likely to pass anyway?

The highest drop out rate is those people who go to college on pell grants. What's the point? Why are we even funding that?

Even you left-wing idiots, should be asking the question.... you tax us, and spend $30 Billion dollars a year, and the majority goes to students who drop out. And you want to pay for the entire thing free? How is that going to benefit anyone? It doesn't even benefit the students on the pell grants. Congrats, you failed.

Are they better off? No. Are we better off? No. Is society better off? No. So we're all worse off, all of us, even the people you claim to be supporting. Those people could have been moving on with their lives, instead of wasting their time, going to a college they had no chance of passing.

Oh, but no no, we need to make it free. That will solve everything. Except that with more and more money sucked out of the economy, there will be fewer jobs. But you people never care about that anyway.

Then we can end up like the UK, and when the money runs out.....

Brilliant move. That worked so well... let's do the same thing here.

 

[Conservative65]

Forget Inversions, These 20 Huge, Profitable Companies Already Pay Zero Tax

Want to check and see what PARTY they donate a majority of their money to?

As I mentioned in Post 106.

If that's all you care about, then I guess you don't mind paying more taxes because they pay none.

How many MILLIONS of individuals don't pay income taxes. I guess you don't mind paying more so they can get handouts from programs they don't fund.

 

[jillian]

but doesn't donate anything to charity?
In fact when I did thishttp://www.bing.com/search?q=does%20bernie%20sanders%20donate%20money%20to%20the%20unfortunate%3F&qs=n&form=QBRE&pq=does%20bernie%20sanders%20donate%20money%20to%20the%20unfortunate%3F&sc=0-27&sp=-1&sk=&cvid=ECD6614E1AAC48F79A042A35D467D7A9
bernie sanders and charity - Bing
All I got was a way to donate to HIM and unrelated things.
How can someone preach about giving away all this stuff, when he HIMSELF doesn't do it? If he cant do it willingly, what gives him the right to want to FORCE everyone else?

how many threads do we need on this subject, hon?

i'm sorry you think doing the right thing is about "free stuff".

me? I don't want to have to live behind barbed wire like anyone with money has to do in the banana republics.

you can't have the kind of disparity in wealth that we're having here. and it's a matter of good public policy to say everyone should have a leg up if they need it.

It is, isn't it? He said it plain as day.
I honestly don't have a problem with free education, but I still think he is a hypocrite. Most people that support that stuff is, it seems like.
Barbed wire? Banana Republics? That's a little far fetched isn't it?

no. it really isn't about "free stuff". it's about doing the right thing at a core societal level. the whole "free stuff" thing is what you've been sold by people who have an interest in maintaining the disparity. me? I want everyone to be educated if they want to be. I want everyone to have health care. no one in the wealthiest country in the world should have to choose between eating and getting their medication. and no parent should have to deny an education to their child because they can't afford it.

in the old days, you could work your way through school. school is so expensive now that even if the low-wage jobs aren't taken by old people (courtesy of the economic crash of '08), it won't cover the cost of tuition.

If you live at home, and you work a full time job, and go to school.... how can you not pay your way through college?

What heck are you blowing your money on? Columbus State Community College, in-state tuition rates.... $3,400 a year. Now what job are you working that you can't earn $3,400 a year? If you work 10 hours a day, minimum wage, you would earn $3,400 a year.

Now of course, that's not enough because of TAXES, which are so high because scummy left-wingers are taxing us to death to pay for their 'free' programs.

EVEN SO.... if you worked a massive 12 hours a week, you should still make more than enough to pay for school.

"well I don't want to live at home"... . that's fine. Do whatever you want. But why should I pay for it, because you don't want to live wisely?

"Well I want to join all the expensive student activities". Fine. Why should I pay for it?

"well I want to go to an expensive out of state college that ranks higher on the party list".... fine. Why should I pay for it?

This left-wing bull crap, about "no one should have to choose to get an education for their kids or not" is just garbage.

There are millions of ways to get free, or super low cost education. Millions. We have grants and scholarships out the wazoo, and all you have to do is apply for them, and have the grades.

If you don't have the grades, why would we pay to have someone go to college, when they are not likely to pass anyway?

The highest drop out rate is those people who go to college on pell grants. What's the point? Why are we even funding that?

Even you left-wing idiots, should be asking the question.... you tax us, and spend $30 Billion dollars a year, and the majority goes to students who drop out. And you want to pay for the entire thing free? How is that going to benefit anyone? It doesn't even benefit the students on the pell grants. Congrats, you failed.

Are they better off? No. Are we better off? No. Is society better off? No. So we're all worse off, all of us, even the people you claim to be supporting. Those people could have been moving on with their lives, instead of wasting their time, going to a college they had no chance of passing.

Oh, but no no, we need to make it free. That will solve everything. Except that with more and more money sucked out of the economy, there will be fewer jobs. But you people never care about that anyway.

Then we can end up like the UK, and when the money runs out.....

Brilliant move. That worked so well... let's do the same thing here.

1. i would never make my son live home for college. part of growing up is the experience of living at school. it was one of the best and most important things i ever did.
2. it is very difficult to get those entry level jobs because people who can work all day get them. no one wants to work around a college student's schedule, which, if the student is serious, is going to be very full.
3. a minimum wage, part time job does not pay for school.
4, you don't care about spending money... it's been shoveled into wars and tax relief for corporations if you cared about money 70 million wouldn't have been spent on investigating a blue dress or 20 million on something that is a contrived political hack job.

the UK mostly does just fine. thanks....it just gets screwed up when righties take over.

every other civilized nation provides health care and an education. it's only rightwingnut idiots who think those things have no value...

because jesus.

 

[Arianrhod]

How many MILLIONS of individuals don't pay income taxes.

And he cuts and pastes this into yet another post.

You can stop obsessing about that now. You and Cecelie (and it looks as if Vigilante will join you - share the load) will be knocking on doors in working class neighborhoods demanding that families turn over the kids' piggy banks to make up the shortfall from those corporations that pay no taxes.

Since you'll be volunteers, you won't need to pay yourselves for the time (but since you'll be in charge, you can at least buy lunch for the other two), but you'll all need decent walking shoes (or were you planning on driving from door to door? Who pays for gas?).

Work up an Excel sheet showing how many working-class homes you'd have to extract how many dollars from in order to compensate for just one of those corporations.

Or just cut and paste your little speech again and again and again and...

 

[Conservative65]

How many MILLIONS of individuals don't pay income taxes.

And he cuts and pastes this into yet another post.

You can stop obsessing about that now. You and Cecelie (and it looks as if Vigilante will join you - share the load) will be knocking on doors in working class neighborhoods demanding that families turn over the kids' piggy banks to make up the shortfall from those corporations that pay no taxes.

Since you'll be volunteers, you won't need to pay yourselves for the time (but since you'll be in charge, you can at least buy lunch for the other two), but you'll all need decent walking shoes (or were you planning on driving from door to door? Who pays for gas?).

Work up an Excel sheet showing how many working-class homes you'd have to extract how many dollars from in order to compensate for just one of those corporations.

Or just cut and paste your little speech again and again and again and...

And you cut and paste the "corporations that don't pay taxes" and believe that's perfectly OK.

Yet you want the government to go after corporations while letting the individuals get a free ride.

You want to keep saying you're not a Democrat but you keep posting what those who call themselves Democrats post. You're either a liar or the dumbest fucking son of a bitch around.

 

[Arianrhod]

And you cut and paste the "corporations that don't pay taxes" and believe that's perfectly OK.

When you acknowledge it as a reality and either admit that you don't care that you're paying a higher proportion of taxes because billion-dollar entities are paying less or that it's an outrage and you're going to do something about it, I'll stop.

Yet you want the government to go after corporations while letting the individuals get a free ride.

Which is more cost effective - you confiscating poor kids' piggy banks or laws that close offshore loopholes and require corporations to pay the same percentage of their income that you do? Still waiting for that Excel sheet showing your method is better, which you obviously can't produce.

Seriously, convince me that it makes more sense to squeeze a few bucks out of a few million working-class families than it does to pass a law saying "Okay, Apple, pony up!"

You can't. So you'll just keep repeating yourself ad infinitum, ad nauseam. You need some new material.

 

[Andylusion]

but doesn't donate anything to charity?
In fact when I did thishttp://www.bing.com/search?q=does%20bernie%20sanders%20donate%20money%20to%20the%20unfortunate%3F&qs=n&form=QBRE&pq=does%20bernie%20sanders%20donate%20money%20to%20the%20unfortunate%3F&sc=0-27&sp=-1&sk=&cvid=ECD6614E1AAC48F79A042A35D467D7A9
bernie sanders and charity - Bing
All I got was a way to donate to HIM and unrelated things.
How can someone preach about giving away all this stuff, when he HIMSELF doesn't do it? If he cant do it willingly, what gives him the right to want to FORCE everyone else?

how many threads do we need on this subject, hon?

i'm sorry you think doing the right thing is about "free stuff".

me? I don't want to have to live behind barbed wire like anyone with money has to do in the banana republics.

you can't have the kind of disparity in wealth that we're having here. and it's a matter of good public policy to say everyone should have a leg up if they need it.

It is, isn't it? He said it plain as day.
I honestly don't have a problem with free education, but I still think he is a hypocrite. Most people that support that stuff is, it seems like.
Barbed wire? Banana Republics? That's a little far fetched isn't it?

no. it really isn't about "free stuff". it's about doing the right thing at a core societal level. the whole "free stuff" thing is what you've been sold by people who have an interest in maintaining the disparity. me? I want everyone to be educated if they want to be. I want everyone to have health care. no one in the wealthiest country in the world should have to choose between eating and getting their medication. and no parent should have to deny an education to their child because they can't afford it.

in the old days, you could work your way through school. school is so expensive now that even if the low-wage jobs aren't taken by old people (courtesy of the economic crash of '08), it won't cover the cost of tuition.

If you live at home, and you work a full time job, and go to school.... how can you not pay your way through college?

What heck are you blowing your money on? Columbus State Community College, in-state tuition rates.... $3,400 a year. Now what job are you working that you can't earn $3,400 a year? If you work 10 hours a day, minimum wage, you would earn $3,400 a year.

Now of course, that's not enough because of TAXES, which are so high because scummy left-wingers are taxing us to death to pay for their 'free' programs.

EVEN SO.... if you worked a massive 12 hours a week, you should still make more than enough to pay for school.

"well I don't want to live at home"... . that's fine. Do whatever you want. But why should I pay for it, because you don't want to live wisely?

"Well I want to join all the expensive student activities". Fine. Why should I pay for it?

"well I want to go to an expensive out of state college that ranks higher on the party list".... fine. Why should I pay for it?

This left-wing bull crap, about "no one should have to choose to get an education for their kids or not" is just garbage.

There are millions of ways to get free, or super low cost education. Millions. We have grants and scholarships out the wazoo, and all you have to do is apply for them, and have the grades.

If you don't have the grades, why would we pay to have someone go to college, when they are not likely to pass anyway?

The highest drop out rate is those people who go to college on pell grants. What's the point? Why are we even funding that?

Even you left-wing idiots, should be asking the question.... you tax us, and spend $30 Billion dollars a year, and the majority goes to students who drop out. And you want to pay for the entire thing free? How is that going to benefit anyone? It doesn't even benefit the students on the pell grants. Congrats, you failed.

Are they better off? No. Are we better off? No. Is society better off? No. So we're all worse off, all of us, even the people you claim to be supporting. Those people could have been moving on with their lives, instead of wasting their time, going to a college they had no chance of passing.

Oh, but no no, we need to make it free. That will solve everything. Except that with more and more money sucked out of the economy, there will be fewer jobs. But you people never care about that anyway.

Then we can end up like the UK, and when the money runs out.....

Brilliant move. That worked so well... let's do the same thing here.

1. i would never make my son live home for college. part of growing up is the experience of living at school. it was one of the best and most important things i ever did.
2. it is very difficult to get those entry level jobs because people who can work all day get them. no one wants to work around a college student's schedule, which, if the student is serious, is going to be very full.
3. a minimum wage, part time job does not pay for school.
4, you don't care about spending money... it's been shoveled into wars and tax relief for corporations if you cared about money 70 million wouldn't have been spent on investigating a blue dress or 20 million on something that is a contrived political hack job.

the UK mostly does just fine. thanks....it just gets screwed up when righties take over.

every other civilized nation provides health care and an education. it's only rightwingnut idiots who think those things have no value...

because jesus.

1. AGAIN.... That's fine! Pay for him to live at college. Why should *I* be forced to pay for your son to live at a college, simply because you are stuck up?

You can do anything you want buddy... *YOU PAY FOR IT*.

2. I worked TWO jobs when I was in college. In fact, my company right now has THREE interns, that are paid WELL ABOVE minimum wage, and we work around their scheduled constantly.

Walmart has tuition reimbursement, and they work around schedule ALL THE TIME. I know someone who did it! You are so full of crap. You just make up ANYTHING to support your BS position.

3. I just gave you the tuition fees. And I assume you can do math, so I don't have to explain to you how much minimum wage verses a part time shift. How does it not cover it?

4. The UK does not do fine. "Yeah they do fine, that's why people are rioting in the streets, and they are cutting funding year over year."

They run out of money, and you think "it's the righties!". What moron.

Maybe you can't do math. When you run out of money, it's not "righties"..... it's called math. The amount of money you have to spend, is less than the amount required for your 'free' education.

And quite frankly, all the "free" health care around the world, is neither free, nor good. But if you can't grasp the fact the UK doesn't have un-ending piles of money for education, then clearly you are too incompetent to know anything about 'free' health care either.

See, this is why socialism is tried over and over, even though 100% of the time it fails. No matter what happens, you don't bother with "Oh that's right, in order to buy something, you have to have the money for it".... no no.... it's "the righties!" Those darn righties. Math wouldn't be a problem if not for those darn calculators and the right-wingers that use them..... darn math... using.... conservative.... righties!

It's amazing I keep forgetting I'm talking left-wingers, where 1 + 1 is 11. "See? Two 1s by each other is 11. That's the left wing math. We can afford anything with our math."

 

[Arianrhod]

Why should *I* be forced to pay for your son to live at a college?

You wouldn't be. Try to pay attention.

 

[auditor0007]

Where did he say "free"?

but doesn't donate anything to charity?
In fact when I did thishttp://www.bing.com/search?q=does%20bernie%20sanders%20donate%20money%20to%20the%20unfortunate%3F&qs=n&form=QBRE&pq=does%20bernie%20sanders%20donate%20money%20to%20the%20unfortunate%3F&sc=0-27&sp=-1&sk=&cvid=ECD6614E1AAC48F79A042A35D467D7A9
bernie sanders and charity - Bing
All I got was a way to donate to HIM and unrelated things.
How can someone preach about giving away all this stuff, when he HIMSELF doesn't do it? If he cant do it willingly, what gives him the right to want to FORCE everyone else?

Which candidate's website gives a rundown of their charitable contributions?

Did he say free or discounted tuition?

He has said free but paid for by taxes on everyone including higher taxes on the wealthy. Actually, I like the idea, and it could be very beneficial to everyone involved including American business, but the way our educational system stands now, it would be a waste of money in the long run. Without addressing the problems with the system as it is now, just allowing kids to go to college for free would do little other than to allow many kids to go to school to party. First of all we need to understand that many jobs do not require a four year degree but do require specialized training that cannot be attained through normal colleges and universities. Until we have a system of apprenticeships as well as specialized training schools for the many jobs that do not require a four year degree, we would be wasting our time.

 

[Arianrhod]

Again, tuition at state universities would be paid for by a small fee on hedge-fund transactions. Based on some of the responses in this thread, some people don't even know what a hedge fund is.

 

[auditor0007]

how many threads do we need on this subject, hon?

i'm sorry you think doing the right thing is about "free stuff".

me? I don't want to have to live behind barbed wire like anyone with money has to do in the banana republics.

you can't have the kind of disparity in wealth that we're having here. and it's a matter of good public policy to say everyone should have a leg up if they need it.

It is, isn't it? He said it plain as day.
I honestly don't have a problem with free education, but I still think he is a hypocrite. Most people that support that stuff is, it seems like.
Barbed wire? Banana Republics? That's a little far fetched isn't it?

no. it really isn't about "free stuff". it's about doing the right thing at a core societal level. the whole "free stuff" thing is what you've been sold by people who have an interest in maintaining the disparity. me? I want everyone to be educated if they want to be. I want everyone to have health care. no one in the wealthiest country in the world should have to choose between eating and getting their medication. and no parent should have to deny an education to their child because they can't afford it.

in the old days, you could work your way through school. school is so expensive now that even if the low-wage jobs aren't taken by old people (courtesy of the economic crash of '08), it won't cover the cost of tuition.

If you live at home, and you work a full time job, and go to school.... how can you not pay your way through college?

What heck are you blowing your money on? Columbus State Community College, in-state tuition rates.... $3,400 a year. Now what job are you working that you can't earn $3,400 a year? If you work 10 hours a day, minimum wage, you would earn $3,400 a year.

Now of course, that's not enough because of TAXES, which are so high because scummy left-wingers are taxing us to death to pay for their 'free' programs.

EVEN SO.... if you worked a massive 12 hours a week, you should still make more than enough to pay for school.

"well I don't want to live at home"... . that's fine. Do whatever you want. But why should I pay for it, because you don't want to live wisely?

"Well I want to join all the expensive student activities". Fine. Why should I pay for it?

"well I want to go to an expensive out of state college that ranks higher on the party list".... fine. Why should I pay for it?

This left-wing bull crap, about "no one should have to choose to get an education for their kids or not" is just garbage.

There are millions of ways to get free, or super low cost education. Millions. We have grants and scholarships out the wazoo, and all you have to do is apply for them, and have the grades.

If you don't have the grades, why would we pay to have someone go to college, when they are not likely to pass anyway?

The highest drop out rate is those people who go to college on pell grants. What's the point? Why are we even funding that?

Even you left-wing idiots, should be asking the question.... you tax us, and spend $30 Billion dollars a year, and the majority goes to students who drop out. And you want to pay for the entire thing free? How is that going to benefit anyone? It doesn't even benefit the students on the pell grants. Congrats, you failed.

Are they better off? No. Are we better off? No. Is society better off? No. So we're all worse off, all of us, even the people you claim to be supporting. Those people could have been moving on with their lives, instead of wasting their time, going to a college they had no chance of passing.

Oh, but no no, we need to make it free. That will solve everything. Except that with more and more money sucked out of the economy, there will be fewer jobs. But you people never care about that anyway.

Then we can end up like the UK, and when the money runs out.....

Brilliant move. That worked so well... let's do the same thing here.

1. i would never make my son live home for college. part of growing up is the experience of living at school. it was one of the best and most important things i ever did.
2. it is very difficult to get those entry level jobs because people who can work all day get them. no one wants to work around a college student's schedule, which, if the student is serious, is going to be very full.
3. a minimum wage, part time job does not pay for school.
4, you don't care about spending money... it's been shoveled into wars and tax relief for corporations if you cared about money 70 million wouldn't have been spent on investigating a blue dress or 20 million on something that is a contrived political hack job.

the UK mostly does just fine. thanks....it just gets screwed up when righties take over.

every other civilized nation provides health care and an education. it's only rightwingnut idiots who think those things have no value...

because jesus.

1. AGAIN.... That's fine! Pay for him to live at college. Why should *I* be forced to pay for your son to live at a college, simply because you are stuck up?

You can do anything you want buddy... *YOU PAY FOR IT*.

2. I worked TWO jobs when I was in college. In fact, my company right now has THREE interns, that are paid WELL ABOVE minimum wage, and we work around their scheduled constantly.

Walmart has tuition reimbursement, and they work around schedule ALL THE TIME. I know someone who did it! You are so full of crap. You just make up ANYTHING to support your BS position.

3. I just gave you the tuition fees. And I assume you can do math, so I don't have to explain to you how much minimum wage verses a part time shift. How does it not cover it?

4. The UK does not do fine. "Yeah they do fine, that's why people are rioting in the streets, and they are cutting funding year over year."

They run out of money, and you think "it's the righties!". What moron.

Maybe you can't do math. When you run out of money, it's not "righties"..... it's called math. The amount of money you have to spend, is less than the amount required for your 'free' education.

And quite frankly, all the "free" health care around the world, is neither free, nor good. But if you can't grasp the fact the UK doesn't have un-ending piles of money for education, then clearly you are too incompetent to know anything about 'free' health care either.

See, this is why socialism is tried over and over, even though 100% of the time it fails. No matter what happens, you don't bother with "Oh that's right, in order to buy something, you have to have the money for it".... no no.... it's "the righties!" Those darn righties. Math wouldn't be a problem if not for those darn calculators and the right-wingers that use them..... darn math... using.... conservative.... righties!

It's amazing I keep forgetting I'm talking left-wingers, where 1 + 1 is 11. "See? Two 1s by each other is 11. That's the left wing math. We can afford anything with our math."

Universal healthcare works very well in almost every country where it is available. You have been brainwashed into believing otherwise. Hybrid systems that allow for some private care seem to work the best as they guarantee good quality care for everyone and even better care for those who choose to pay extra. Now I'm sure you are going to come back and tell me just how bad all that socialized healthcare is in countries that you have never been to, but you will be wrong again. See, there are two specific things to look at, and that is cost and outcome. The overall outcome of people's health in the US is no better than any country with socialized healthcare, and in many cases the US is worse. That is a fact. Sure you may find one treatment that is slightly better in the US than in GB or Germany, but you will find the opposite true for other types of care. When you look at all of it, the best you could come to as a conclusion is that it is a wash, except for the other fact, and that other fact is that we in the US pay double what almost every other country pays for healthcare. Why is it we want to pay double what everyone else in the world pays for the same product? That's just stupid.

 

[Pogo]

Where did he say "free"?

but doesn't donate anything to charity?
In fact when I did thishttp://www.bing.com/search?q=does%20bernie%20sanders%20donate%20money%20to%20the%20unfortunate%3F&qs=n&form=QBRE&pq=does%20bernie%20sanders%20donate%20money%20to%20the%20unfortunate%3F&sc=0-27&sp=-1&sk=&cvid=ECD6614E1AAC48F79A042A35D467D7A9
bernie sanders and charity - Bing
All I got was a way to donate to HIM and unrelated things.
How can someone preach about giving away all this stuff, when he HIMSELF doesn't do it? If he cant do it willingly, what gives him the right to want to FORCE everyone else?

Which candidate's website gives a rundown of their charitable contributions?

Did he say free or discounted tuition?

He has said free but paid for by taxes on everyone including higher taxes on the wealthy. Actually, I like the idea, and it could be very beneficial to everyone involved including American business, but the way our educational system stands now, it would be a waste of money in the long run. Without addressing the problems with the system as it is now, just allowing kids to go to college for free would do little other than to allow many kids to go to school to party. First of all we need to understand that many jobs do not require a four year degree but do require specialized training that cannot be attained through normal colleges and universities. Until we have a system of apprenticeships as well as specialized training schools for the many jobs that do not require a four year degree, we would be wasting our time.

Agreed. I'm a big fan of apprenticeships.

 

[Andylusion]

And you cut and paste the "corporations that don't pay taxes" and believe that's perfectly OK.

When you acknowledge it as a reality and either admit that you don't care that you're paying a higher proportion of taxes because billion-dollar entities are paying less or that it's an outrage and you're going to do something about it, I'll stop.

Yet you want the government to go after corporations while letting the individuals get a free ride.

Which is more cost effective - you confiscating poor kids' piggy banks or laws that close offshore loopholes and require corporations to pay the same percentage of their income that you do? Still waiting for that Excel sheet showing your method is better, which you obviously can't produce.

Seriously, convince me that it makes more sense to squeeze a few bucks out of a few million working-class families than it does to pass a law saying "Okay, Apple, pony up!"

You can't. So you'll just keep repeating yourself ad infinitum, ad nauseam. You need some new material.

Tell me..... do you take the minimum deduction when you file your taxes? Or pay the full amount, without any deductions? Because by your logic, I'm paying a higher amount of taxes because of *YOU*.

Here's the problem with you left wingers. You expect other people, to act completely differently than you yourself act. All of you lefties, take as many deductions as you possibly can. Even Warren Buffet, during a share holders meeting explained that Berkshire Hathaway, was buying up specific percentages of companies they invested in, specifically to avoid taxes.

The rich in Hollywood do the same thing. The rich in Washington DC do the same thing. Everyone does the same thing.

If someone proposes getting rid of the mortgage interest deduction, you people on the left scream.

Why? You don't want to pay taxes. But you hypocritically expect those who already pay more taxes than any of you ever have, to not use deductions?

Why do you expect others, to react to taxation differently than YOU do?

Well, get a clue stupid. They are not. They never will. As long as we live in a free society, where everyone has a vote, that includes the rich, and they are not going to pay ever growing amounts of tax.

And if you succeed in forcing them too, they'll leave. Venezuela, Cuba, Argentina, France, Greece, the list of places that tried to jack up taxes on the rich, only to have them live the country grows every year.

 

[Andylusion]

Where did he say "free"?

but doesn't donate anything to charity?
In fact when I did thishttp://www.bing.com/search?q=does%20bernie%20sanders%20donate%20money%20to%20the%20unfortunate%3F&qs=n&form=QBRE&pq=does%20bernie%20sanders%20donate%20money%20to%20the%20unfortunate%3F&sc=0-27&sp=-1&sk=&cvid=ECD6614E1AAC48F79A042A35D467D7A9
bernie sanders and charity - Bing
All I got was a way to donate to HIM and unrelated things.
How can someone preach about giving away all this stuff, when he HIMSELF doesn't do it? If he cant do it willingly, what gives him the right to want to FORCE everyone else?

Which candidate's website gives a rundown of their charitable contributions?

Did he say free or discounted tuition?

He has said free but paid for by taxes on everyone including higher taxes on the wealthy. Actually, I like the idea, and it could be very beneficial to everyone involved including American business, but the way our educational system stands now, it would be a waste of money in the long run. Without addressing the problems with the system as it is now, just allowing kids to go to college for free would do little other than to allow many kids to go to school to party. First of all we need to understand that many jobs do not require a four year degree but do require specialized training that cannot be attained through normal colleges and universities. Until we have a system of apprenticeships as well as specialized training schools for the many jobs that do not require a four year degree, we would be wasting our time.

Agreed. I'm a big fan of apprenticeships.

Great! Then you should be against raising the minimum wage. Why do you think there are fewer and fewer apprenticeships today?

I worked at a Cadillac dealership. They no longer have apprenticeship positions at all. Why? Too expensive.

Do you understand what an apprenticeship is? It's when you pay an unskilled person, to break stuff.... and then pay an experienced person to fix what the unskilled person breaks.

Let me ask you.... if you hired someone to redo your drive way, and he said,
"yeah, I'll do it... but I'm also training this guy, and you'll need to pay him to do it as well.... and it will take twice a long to do, because he's learning."

Are you going to pay more?

A business may pay more, if only a little, for the long term gain of a skilled employee.

An apprenticeship program is almost always a money losing exercise. The business can afford to eat that cost, if it is small enough.

Additionally, people today have a tendency to leave. The company loses money training someone, and then they get trained and get a job somewhere else.

Again, that risk would be worth it, if the cost was low enough.

But on top of this, you jack up the minimum wage, and companies like the Caddilac dealership says... enough. We don't train anymore anymore. We hire only experienced mechanics.

That's great for the experienced mechanics.... but not so great for new workers who need skills.

So.... shall we cut the minimum wage? Or do you really not support apprenticeship programs like you claim?

 

[Andylusion]

Why should *I* be forced to pay for your son to live at a college?

You wouldn't be. Try to pay attention.

Oh but I am. I can see my pay stub. I can see where my taxes go.

And who do you propose pay for it? My employer? Where do you think he's going to get the money from? Lower wages for people like me? Lower benefits?

The universal myth of leftists, is that "someone else will pay for all my stuff". Well you are wrong.

 

[Arianrhod]

Why should *I* be forced to pay for your son to live at a college?

You wouldn't be. Try to pay attention.

Oh but I am. I can see my pay stub. I can see where my taxes go.

You can see them going. Do you actually know what they're going for?

More to the point, you do know it's not November, 2016 yet, right? Can you tell the class the difference between an actuality and a proposal, or are you just here to rant?

And who do you propose pay for it?

The information is in the OP. Read and learn.

 

[Andylusion]

It is, isn't it? He said it plain as day.
I honestly don't have a problem with free education, but I still think he is a hypocrite. Most people that support that stuff is, it seems like.
Barbed wire? Banana Republics? That's a little far fetched isn't it?

no. it really isn't about "free stuff". it's about doing the right thing at a core societal level. the whole "free stuff" thing is what you've been sold by people who have an interest in maintaining the disparity. me? I want everyone to be educated if they want to be. I want everyone to have health care. no one in the wealthiest country in the world should have to choose between eating and getting their medication. and no parent should have to deny an education to their child because they can't afford it.

in the old days, you could work your way through school. school is so expensive now that even if the low-wage jobs aren't taken by old people (courtesy of the economic crash of '08), it won't cover the cost of tuition.

If you live at home, and you work a full time job, and go to school.... how can you not pay your way through college?

What heck are you blowing your money on? Columbus State Community College, in-state tuition rates.... $3,400 a year. Now what job are you working that you can't earn $3,400 a year? If you work 10 hours a day, minimum wage, you would earn $3,400 a year.

Now of course, that's not enough because of TAXES, which are so high because scummy left-wingers are taxing us to death to pay for their 'free' programs.

EVEN SO.... if you worked a massive 12 hours a week, you should still make more than enough to pay for school.

"well I don't want to live at home"... . that's fine. Do whatever you want. But why should I pay for it, because you don't want to live wisely?

"Well I want to join all the expensive student activities". Fine. Why should I pay for it?

"well I want to go to an expensive out of state college that ranks higher on the party list".... fine. Why should I pay for it?

This left-wing bull crap, about "no one should have to choose to get an education for their kids or not" is just garbage.

There are millions of ways to get free, or super low cost education. Millions. We have grants and scholarships out the wazoo, and all you have to do is apply for them, and have the grades.

If you don't have the grades, why would we pay to have someone go to college, when they are not likely to pass anyway?

The highest drop out rate is those people who go to college on pell grants. What's the point? Why are we even funding that?

Even you left-wing idiots, should be asking the question.... you tax us, and spend $30 Billion dollars a year, and the majority goes to students who drop out. And you want to pay for the entire thing free? How is that going to benefit anyone? It doesn't even benefit the students on the pell grants. Congrats, you failed.

Are they better off? No. Are we better off? No. Is society better off? No. So we're all worse off, all of us, even the people you claim to be supporting. Those people could have been moving on with their lives, instead of wasting their time, going to a college they had no chance of passing.

Oh, but no no, we need to make it free. That will solve everything. Except that with more and more money sucked out of the economy, there will be fewer jobs. But you people never care about that anyway.

Then we can end up like the UK, and when the money runs out.....

Brilliant move. That worked so well... let's do the same thing here.

1. i would never make my son live home for college. part of growing up is the experience of living at school. it was one of the best and most important things i ever did.
2. it is very difficult to get those entry level jobs because people who can work all day get them. no one wants to work around a college student's schedule, which, if the student is serious, is going to be very full.
3. a minimum wage, part time job does not pay for school.
4, you don't care about spending money... it's been shoveled into wars and tax relief for corporations if you cared about money 70 million wouldn't have been spent on investigating a blue dress or 20 million on something that is a contrived political hack job.

the UK mostly does just fine. thanks....it just gets screwed up when righties take over.

every other civilized nation provides health care and an education. it's only rightwingnut idiots who think those things have no value...

because jesus.

1. AGAIN.... That's fine! Pay for him to live at college. Why should *I* be forced to pay for your son to live at a college, simply because you are stuck up?

You can do anything you want buddy... *YOU PAY FOR IT*.

2. I worked TWO jobs when I was in college. In fact, my company right now has THREE interns, that are paid WELL ABOVE minimum wage, and we work around their scheduled constantly.

Walmart has tuition reimbursement, and they work around schedule ALL THE TIME. I know someone who did it! You are so full of crap. You just make up ANYTHING to support your BS position.

3. I just gave you the tuition fees. And I assume you can do math, so I don't have to explain to you how much minimum wage verses a part time shift. How does it not cover it?

4. The UK does not do fine. "Yeah they do fine, that's why people are rioting in the streets, and they are cutting funding year over year."

They run out of money, and you think "it's the righties!". What moron.

Maybe you can't do math. When you run out of money, it's not "righties"..... it's called math. The amount of money you have to spend, is less than the amount required for your 'free' education.

And quite frankly, all the "free" health care around the world, is neither free, nor good. But if you can't grasp the fact the UK doesn't have un-ending piles of money for education, then clearly you are too incompetent to know anything about 'free' health care either.

See, this is why socialism is tried over and over, even though 100% of the time it fails. No matter what happens, you don't bother with "Oh that's right, in order to buy something, you have to have the money for it".... no no.... it's "the righties!" Those darn righties. Math wouldn't be a problem if not for those darn calculators and the right-wingers that use them..... darn math... using.... conservative.... righties!

It's amazing I keep forgetting I'm talking left-wingers, where 1 + 1 is 11. "See? Two 1s by each other is 11. That's the left wing math. We can afford anything with our math."

Universal healthcare works very well in almost every country where it is available. You have been brainwashed into believing otherwise. Hybrid systems that allow for some private care seem to work the best as they guarantee good quality care for everyone and even better care for those who choose to pay extra. Now I'm sure you are going to come back and tell me just how bad all that socialized healthcare is in countries that you have never been to, but you will be wrong again. See, there are two specific things to look at, and that is cost and outcome. The overall outcome of people's health in the US is no better than any country with socialized healthcare, and in many cases the US is worse. That is a fact. Sure you may find one treatment that is slightly better in the US than in GB or Germany, but you will find the opposite true for other types of care. When you look at all of it, the best you could come to as a conclusion is that it is a wash, except for the other fact, and that other fact is that we in the US pay double what almost every other country pays for healthcare. Why is it we want to pay double what everyone else in the world pays for the same product? That's just stupid.

You people on the left keep 'saying' that socialized care works great in every country, but then when I look it up, it's never as great as you claim it is.

Yeah, a hybrid system is better than a completely socialized system. That's no surprise to us on the right. The more socialized it is, the worse it is. The more capitalist it is, the better it is. Logically, if it is a hybrid, it will be better than a pure socialized system.

The US is still better than any completely socialized system I've ever looked at. Is it getting worse? Yes. And the US health care is becoming more and more socialized.

Is their health care cheaper? In some ways... The quality of the care is lower, and lower care, results in a lower price. At the same time, I keep looking at the costs, and I don't see it being cheaper.

I remember reading one comparison with UKs National Health Service. Oh yes, NHS is far cheaper than our system. Is it? Only if you exclusively look at NHS taxes. Problem is, NHS isn't funded by the National Insurance tax. Not at all. 90% plus, of the NHS budget comes from the General revenue.

Why do you think UK wages are on average lower than US wages? Because employer side taxes are higher. Where do you think the money comes from to pay those taxes? From the employee in the form of lower wages.

Why do you think tax rates are higher in the UK? So not only do they earn less to begin with, but they get to keep less of it.

The effective marginal tax rate in the UK is almost 10% higher than that of the US. Let me ask you which is cheaper.

I make $20,000 a year, and my monthly health insurance premium is $76 a month.

10% of my income is $2,000 a year. Insurance is $912 a year. Which is cheaper according to math, instead of your opinion?

Maybe that's just me. Let's take the average US income $50,500, and the average insurance premium of $235.

10% of the average wage is $5,050 a year, and average insurance is $2,820. Which is cheaper according to math, instead of your opinion?

Paying 10% more in taxes, is vastly more expensive than our current system, no matter what other stats you come up with.

Oh, and before you bring it up, all those fees and additional costs here in the US... they all exist in the UK too. Fee for hospital stays, fees for various treatments. Fees for using a hospital telephone. Did you know that UK hospitals charge patients, and make a profit off of using the telephone?

You pass out, wake up at the hospital, and don't have your cell phone, sure you can call your wife... for a fee.... don't worry, we'll just add that to your hospital fees.

So this claim that it's so much cheaper.... I've been to the UK, and I have friends that live there now.... not seeing this "so much cheaper" system.

And the quality of care?

Number of patients waiting 36 weeks for NHS treatment triples - BBC News

Yeah, maybe.... if you live long enough to get it. Funny how when I look up medical tourism statistics, I always see the US on the list somewhere.... and that's to be expected. In a free-market competitive system, I would expect some Americans to go shopping in the market for a better deal.

But how do you explain Canada, UK, Europe, Australia, Japan, and all the other countries with "free" high quality health care? Why does India get more visitors from Canada and the UK for health care, than the US.... when as you claim they get free government paid for care, that is just as good as the US?

Why is Japan the biggest source of medical tourism for Korea, if their government care is so great?

Maybe all your crap is wrong? Just a thought.

 

[Vigilante]

 

[Andylusion]

Why should *I* be forced to pay for your son to live at a college?

You wouldn't be. Try to pay attention.

Oh but I am. I can see my pay stub. I can see where my taxes go.

You can see them going. Do you actually know what they're going for?

More to the point, you do know it's not November, 2016 yet, right? Can you tell the class the difference between an actuality and a proposal, or are you just here to rant?

And who do you propose pay for it?

The information is in the OP. Read and learn.

Yes. I can see where they are going. The Federal Budget, is easily found. The State budget is easily found. The local budget is easily found.

There is nothing super difficult about all of this.

The amount of money used for things that actually benefit average working people, is very small.

The vast vast majority of taxes go to pay for health care and education, and other welfare entitlements.

So yes, dude... yes. Take the time to compare your pay stub, to Fed, State, and local budgets, and you can easily figure out where your money is going. This doesn't require a Ph.D. It barely requires a calculator.

Yes, I read the claim.... and the claim is garbage. You can claim you'll get the rich to pay for stuff, but the fact is, that has never happened in the last 30 years. All taxes supposedly 'target the rich" end up being paid for by the poor. Almost no exception.

 

[jillian]

no. it really isn't about "free stuff". it's about doing the right thing at a core societal level. the whole "free stuff" thing is what you've been sold by people who have an interest in maintaining the disparity. me? I want everyone to be educated if they want to be. I want everyone to have health care. no one in the wealthiest country in the world should have to choose between eating and getting their medication. and no parent should have to deny an education to their child because they can't afford it.

in the old days, you could work your way through school. school is so expensive now that even if the low-wage jobs aren't taken by old people (courtesy of the economic crash of '08), it won't cover the cost of tuition.

If you live at home, and you work a full time job, and go to school.... how can you not pay your way through college?

What heck are you blowing your money on? Columbus State Community College, in-state tuition rates.... $3,400 a year. Now what job are you working that you can't earn $3,400 a year? If you work 10 hours a day, minimum wage, you would earn $3,400 a year.

Now of course, that's not enough because of TAXES, which are so high because scummy left-wingers are taxing us to death to pay for their 'free' programs.

EVEN SO.... if you worked a massive 12 hours a week, you should still make more than enough to pay for school.

"well I don't want to live at home"... . that's fine. Do whatever you want. But why should I pay for it, because you don't want to live wisely?

"Well I want to join all the expensive student activities". Fine. Why should I pay for it?

"well I want to go to an expensive out of state college that ranks higher on the party list".... fine. Why should I pay for it?

This left-wing bull crap, about "no one should have to choose to get an education for their kids or not" is just garbage.

There are millions of ways to get free, or super low cost education. Millions. We have grants and scholarships out the wazoo, and all you have to do is apply for them, and have the grades.

If you don't have the grades, why would we pay to have someone go to college, when they are not likely to pass anyway?

The highest drop out rate is those people who go to college on pell grants. What's the point? Why are we even funding that?

Even you left-wing idiots, should be asking the question.... you tax us, and spend $30 Billion dollars a year, and the majority goes to students who drop out. And you want to pay for the entire thing free? How is that going to benefit anyone? It doesn't even benefit the students on the pell grants. Congrats, you failed.

Are they better off? No. Are we better off? No. Is society better off? No. So we're all worse off, all of us, even the people you claim to be supporting. Those people could have been moving on with their lives, instead of wasting their time, going to a college they had no chance of passing.

Oh, but no no, we need to make it free. That will solve everything. Except that with more and more money sucked out of the economy, there will be fewer jobs. But you people never care about that anyway.

Then we can end up like the UK, and when the money runs out.....

Brilliant move. That worked so well... let's do the same thing here.

1. i would never make my son live home for college. part of growing up is the experience of living at school. it was one of the best and most important things i ever did.
2. it is very difficult to get those entry level jobs because people who can work all day get them. no one wants to work around a college student's schedule, which, if the student is serious, is going to be very full.
3. a minimum wage, part time job does not pay for school.
4, you don't care about spending money... it's been shoveled into wars and tax relief for corporations if you cared about money 70 million wouldn't have been spent on investigating a blue dress or 20 million on something that is a contrived political hack job.

the UK mostly does just fine. thanks....it just gets screwed up when righties take over.

every other civilized nation provides health care and an education. it's only rightwingnut idiots who think those things have no value...

because jesus.

1. AGAIN.... That's fine! Pay for him to live at college. Why should *I* be forced to pay for your son to live at a college, simply because you are stuck up?

You can do anything you want buddy... *YOU PAY FOR IT*.

2. I worked TWO jobs when I was in college. In fact, my company right now has THREE interns, that are paid WELL ABOVE minimum wage, and we work around their scheduled constantly.

Walmart has tuition reimbursement, and they work around schedule ALL THE TIME. I know someone who did it! You are so full of crap. You just make up ANYTHING to support your BS position.

3. I just gave you the tuition fees. And I assume you can do math, so I don't have to explain to you how much minimum wage verses a part time shift. How does it not cover it?

4. The UK does not do fine. "Yeah they do fine, that's why people are rioting in the streets, and they are cutting funding year over year."

They run out of money, and you think "it's the righties!". What moron.

Maybe you can't do math. When you run out of money, it's not "righties"..... it's called math. The amount of money you have to spend, is less than the amount required for your 'free' education.

And quite frankly, all the "free" health care around the world, is neither free, nor good. But if you can't grasp the fact the UK doesn't have un-ending piles of money for education, then clearly you are too incompetent to know anything about 'free' health care either.

See, this is why socialism is tried over and over, even though 100% of the time it fails. No matter what happens, you don't bother with "Oh that's right, in order to buy something, you have to have the money for it".... no no.... it's "the righties!" Those darn righties. Math wouldn't be a problem if not for those darn calculators and the right-wingers that use them..... darn math... using.... conservative.... righties!

It's amazing I keep forgetting I'm talking left-wingers, where 1 + 1 is 11. "See? Two 1s by each other is 11. That's the left wing math. We can afford anything with our math."

Universal healthcare works very well in almost every country where it is available. You have been brainwashed into believing otherwise. Hybrid systems that allow for some private care seem to work the best as they guarantee good quality care for everyone and even better care for those who choose to pay extra. Now I'm sure you are going to come back and tell me just how bad all that socialized healthcare is in countries that you have never been to, but you will be wrong again. See, there are two specific things to look at, and that is cost and outcome. The overall outcome of people's health in the US is no better than any country with socialized healthcare, and in many cases the US is worse. That is a fact. Sure you may find one treatment that is slightly better in the US than in GB or Germany, but you will find the opposite true for other types of care. When you look at all of it, the best you could come to as a conclusion is that it is a wash, except for the other fact, and that other fact is that we in the US pay double what almost every other country pays for healthcare. Why is it we want to pay double what everyone else in the world pays for the same product? That's just stupid.

You people on the left keep 'saying' that socialized care works great in every country, but then when I look it up, it's never as great as you claim it is.

Yeah, a hybrid system is better than a completely socialized system. That's no surprise to us on the right. The more socialized it is, the worse it is. The more capitalist it is, the better it is. Logically, if it is a hybrid, it will be better than a pure socialized system.

The US is still better than any completely socialized system I've ever looked at. Is it getting worse? Yes. And the US health care is becoming more and more socialized.

Is their health care cheaper? In some ways... The quality of the care is lower, and lower care, results in a lower price. At the same time, I keep looking at the costs, and I don't see it being cheaper.

I remember reading one comparison with UKs National Health Service. Oh yes, NHS is far cheaper than our system. Is it? Only if you exclusively look at NHS taxes. Problem is, NHS isn't funded by the National Insurance tax. Not at all. 90% plus, of the NHS budget comes from the General revenue.

Why do you think UK wages are on average lower than US wages? Because employer side taxes are higher. Where do you think the money comes from to pay those taxes? From the employee in the form of lower wages.

Why do you think tax rates are higher in the UK? So not only do they earn less to begin with, but they get to keep less of it.

The effective marginal tax rate in the UK is almost 10% higher than that of the US. Let me ask you which is cheaper.

I make $20,000 a year, and my monthly health insurance premium is $76 a month.

10% of my income is $2,000 a year. Insurance is $912 a year. Which is cheaper according to math, instead of your opinion?

Maybe that's just me. Let's take the average US income $50,500, and the average insurance premium of $235.

10% of the average wage is $5,050 a year, and average insurance is $2,820. Which is cheaper according to math, instead of your opinion?

Paying 10% more in taxes, is vastly more expensive than our current system, no matter what other stats you come up with.

Oh, and before you bring it up, all those fees and additional costs here in the US... they all exist in the UK too. Fee for hospital stays, fees for various treatments. Fees for using a hospital telephone. Did you know that UK hospitals charge patients, and make a profit off of using the telephone?

You pass out, wake up at the hospital, and don't have your cell phone, sure you can call your wife... for a fee.... don't worry, we'll just add that to your hospital fees.

So this claim that it's so much cheaper.... I've been to the UK, and I have friends that live there now.... not seeing this "so much cheaper" system.

And the quality of care?

Number of patients waiting 36 weeks for NHS treatment triples - BBC News

Yeah, maybe.... if you live long enough to get it. Funny how when I look up medical tourism statistics, I always see the US on the list somewhere.... and that's to be expected. In a free-market competitive system, I would expect some Americans to go shopping in the market for a better deal.

But how do you explain Canada, UK, Europe, Australia, Japan, and all the other countries with "free" high quality health care? Why does India get more visitors from Canada and the UK for health care, than the US.... when as you claim they get free government paid for care, that is just as good as the US?

Why is Japan the biggest source of medical tourism for Korea, if their government care is so great?

Maybe all your crap is wrong? Just a thought.

we don't have socialized medicine except at the V.A. level and other than the glitches that occurred after bush privatized walter reed, which seem to be relatively under control now, most service members are very satisfied with their health care. the rest of us have HEALTH INSURANCE... which only enriches the insurance industry. or do you think it benefitted us when they didn't insure people because of pre-existing conditions but dumped you from your existing coverage when you got sick?

so your entire rant about waiting periods in britain are meaningless.... since... again... we don't have socialized medicine. now, also, people with money still get private health care even in countries where there is socialized medicine. now ask those people who do wait whether they'd prefer waiting or not having any medical care.

you people are so silly... everyone i know who lives with a socialized system of medicine is pretty happy about it. but that's not even what most people on the left want anyway... a single payor system where private doctors are paid by the government but not working FOR the government... kind of like the medicaid system works.

what isn't good is the system we have where we have amazing medical care but access is not available to everyone. we are the only civilized country in the world that does what we do and it costs more and gets less than anywhere else.

and that's just a crime. but wingers don't like to solve problems. they just like to rant because it benefits them politically with the wacky base.