Be clear

[Daniyel]

Few questions maybe you'd be able to answer;
1.How does Zionism stopped the Palestinians in the past to establish a state of their own, or even today?

2.Addressing the "Palestinian Problem" as he mentioned is a very misleading term, the real Palestinian Problem is the continuing aggressions in the past and today to violently override the right for self determination of Jews - Judaism is all about Zionism, and there was a room for Palestinians which they didn't accept neither in Israel and Trans Jordan - irrationaly - with the later regrets that comes every few years of why NOT accepting any sort of land to imply they simply want it all, same applies for the term "refugees" which is no longer valid yet accepted even by the UN emphasizing the need of the Palestinians to back to Israel and establish instead a state of Palestine, so apparently Jews are the problem for them, can you disprove that?

3.The claim "one group" is ruling is nonsense, it's all lovely to hear once in a while the laughable claims for apartheid and such but since the Palestinians are refugees it means they're not in Israel, so bang goes the whole claim, unless you'd be able to disprove that either?

4.Yet again he repeat that Jews are the problem for the Palestinians - that suddenly expect us to forget all what they did to us, now that he said it's all because they're not Jews they can't cone back, care to relate to the other one quarter of non Jews that Zionism didn't stopped from living peacefully along with all civil rights?

5.Zionism is an ideology of racism - some very specific term of racism, the one that decide to - quotting "throw Jews into the sea" - Care to relate to that?

Stopped at 5:38.
We can continue after satisfying these questions of which Abunimah defined to construct the entire speech about, so let's observe them first, now I know you are not one of the brightest debaters around here so I will also invite every one that is interested in sharing their opinions, please feel free to elaborate.

 

[Daniyel]

The one state idea is intriguing and there are those who think it could work. I'm skeptical - the hate, fear and mistrust on both sides has only hardened. Both have their extremists that are unwilling to bend. The only way it could work would be to have a Nelson Mandella type figure and a truth & reconciliation type of plan but there is nothing remotely like that on the horizon.

Actually I'm more aligning to a "three(or two and a half)" states solution.

I don't think a half state is doable - it isn't working now is it? Are you thinking states of Gaza and Israel and WB half state?

It's little bit more complex than that, but the basics of the land are WB along with the Palestinians to be fully recognized part of Israel, Gaza a state of Palestine along with parts of the Negev(Kerem Shalom areas) - Terror linked Palestinians can only resident in Palestine or either surrender and stand for trial, while the rest would be granted with Israel ID and resettling support from Israel, those unwilling to accept would simply be deported to demilitarized Gaza, this is probably the only thing that can ever work out and be accepted for both parties but not in the current state and not with the current diplomatic chao, its Israel's responsibility to ensure the Palestinians would have their opinion in it rather than Fatah/Hamas IMHO.

 

[Coyote]

The one state idea is intriguing and there are those who think it could work. I'm skeptical - the hate, fear and mistrust on both sides has only hardened. Both have their extremists that are unwilling to bend. The only way it could work would be to have a Nelson Mandella type figure and a truth & reconciliation type of plan but there is nothing remotely like that on the horizon.

Actually I'm more aligning to a "three(or two and a half)" states solution.

I don't think a half state is doable - it isn't working now is it? Are you thinking states of Gaza and Israel and WB half state?

It's little bit more complex than that, but the basics of the land are WB along with the Palestinians to be fully recognized part of Israel, Gaza a state of Palestine along with parts of the Negev(Kerem Shalom areas) - Terror linked Palestinians can only resident in Palestine or either surrender and stand for trial, while the rest would be granted with Israel ID and resettling support from Israel, those unwilling to accept would simply be deported to demilitarized Gaza, this is probably the only thing that can ever work out and be accepted for both parties but not in the current state and not with the current diplomatic chao, its Israel's responsibility to ensure the Palestinians would have their opinion in it rather than Fatah/Hamas IMHO.

Interesting. Something to think about as a possible solution.

However: Terror linked Palestinians can only resident in Palestine or either surrender and stand for trial...

Why not a "truth and reconciliation" effort as South Africa went through?

 

[Penelope]

I think all of the posters should make clear if they are for a 2-state solution, one Palestine (Gd forbid) or one Israel. Even Norman Finklestein has come come to the realization that most pro-Palestinians want ALL of Israel. I think this is where we all stand:
pbel-2 states
monte-all Palestine
Billo reilly-2 states
Joe-all Palestine
toastman-2 states
Roudy-all Israel
Penelope-all Palestine

Too late for a two state since the hawkish jews have stole so much land and built on it, unless of course the Jews want to return the land?? Another issue the jews there are mainly atheist, secular, and really don't get along with the religious jews so there in you have another problem.

I think if I lived in Israel (God forbid) I'd live in Palestine, gaza , as far away from the jews as can be, I'd rather live with oppressed Palestinians that the arrogant ungodly jews.

Good, no one in Israel would want a scum Nazi like you anyway. But if you do go to Gaza, make sure there is a psychiatric hospital for you to live in.

No problem. Worshipping jews is not my bag.

 

[MJB12741]

I think all of the posters should make clear if they are for a 2-state solution, one Palestine (Gd forbid) or one Israel. Even Norman Finklestein has come come to the realization that most pro-Palestinians want ALL of Israel. I think this is where we all stand:
pbel-2 states
monte-all Palestine
Billo reilly-2 states
Joe-all Palestine
toastman-2 states
Roudy-all Israel
Penelope-all Palestine

Too late for a two state since the hawkish jews have stole so much land and built on it, unless of course the Jews want to return the land?? Another issue the jews there are mainly atheist, secular, and really don't get along with the religious jews so there in you have another problem.

I think if I lived in Israel (God forbid) I'd live in Palestine, gaza , as far away from the jews as can be, I'd rather live with oppressed Palestinians that the arrogant ungodly jews.

Good, no one in Israel would want a scum Nazi like you anyway. But if you do go to Gaza, make sure there is a psychiatric hospital for you to live in.

No problem. Worshipping jews is not my bag.

Even Jesus knows that.

I think all of the posters should make clear if they are for a 2-state solution, one Palestine (Gd forbid) or one Israel. Even Norman Finklestein has come come to the realization that most pro-Palestinians want ALL of Israel. I think this is where we all stand:
pbel-2 states
monte-all Palestine
Billo reilly-2 states
Joe-all Palestine
toastman-2 states
Roudy-all Israel
Penelope-all Palestine

Too late for a two state since the hawkish jews have stole so much land and built on it, unless of course the Jews want to return the land?? Another issue the jews there are mainly atheist, secular, and really don't get along with the religious jews so there in you have another problem.

I think if I lived in Israel (God forbid) I'd live in Palestine, gaza , as far away from the jews as can be, I'd rather live with oppressed Palestinians that the arrogant ungodly jews.

Good, no one in Israel would want a scum Nazi like you anyway. But if you do go to Gaza, make sure there is a psychiatric hospital for you to live in.

No problem. Worshipping jews is not my bag.

Is that right? Well, golly gee, who woulda thunk it?

 

[Coyote]

I think all of the posters should make clear if they are for a 2-state solution, one Palestine (Gd forbid) or one Israel. Even Norman Finklestein has come come to the realization that most pro-Palestinians want ALL of Israel. I think this is where we all stand:
pbel-2 states
monte-all Palestine
Billo reilly-2 states
Joe-all Palestine
toastman-2 states
Roudy-all Israel
Penelope-all Palestine

Too late for a two state since the hawkish jews have stole so much land and built on it, unless of course the Jews want to return the land?? Another issue the jews there are mainly atheist, secular, and really don't get along with the religious jews so there in you have another problem.

I think if I lived in Israel (God forbid) I'd live in Palestine, gaza , as far away from the jews as can be, I'd rather live with oppressed Palestinians that the arrogant ungodly jews.

I can understand having issues with Israel and it's policies - but you seem to hate ALL Jews everywhere. That's not very cool.

 

[montelatici]

Few questions maybe you'd be able to answer;
1.How does Zionism stopped the Palestinians in the past to establish a state of their own, or even today?

2.Addressing the "Palestinian Problem" as he mentioned is a very misleading term, the real Palestinian Problem is the continuing aggressions in the past and today to violently override the right for self determination of Jews - Judaism is all about Zionism, and there was a room for Palestinians which they didn't accept neither in Israel and Trans Jordan - irrationaly - with the later regrets that comes every few years of why NOT accepting any sort of land to imply they simply want it all, same applies for the term "refugees" which is no longer valid yet accepted even by the UN emphasizing the need of the Palestinians to back to Israel and establish instead a state of Palestine, so apparently Jews are the problem for them, can you disprove that?

3.The claim "one group" is ruling is nonsense, it's all lovely to hear once in a while the laughable claims for apartheid and such but since the Palestinians are refugees it means they're not in Israel, so bang goes the whole claim, unless you'd be able to disprove that either?

4.Yet again he repeat that Jews are the problem for the Palestinians - that suddenly expect us to forget all what they did to us, now that he said it's all because they're not Jews they can't cone back, care to relate to the other one quarter of non Jews that Zionism didn't stopped from living peacefully along with all civil rights?

5.Zionism is an ideology of racism - some very specific term of racism, the one that decide to - quotting "throw Jews into the sea" - Care to relate to that?

Stopped at 5:38.
We can continue after satisfying these questions of which Abunimah defined to construct the entire speech about, so let's observe them first, now I know you are not one of the brightest debaters around here so I will also invite every one that is interested in sharing their opinions, please feel free to elaborate.

The Jews were in Europe and they settled in Palestine to colonize it although more than 95% of the people inhabiting Palestine were Muslims and Christians. That's is why there is a problem. Everything else is bullshit.

 

[toastman]

Few questions maybe you'd be able to answer;
1.How does Zionism stopped the Palestinians in the past to establish a state of their own, or even today?

2.Addressing the "Palestinian Problem" as he mentioned is a very misleading term, the real Palestinian Problem is the continuing aggressions in the past and today to violently override the right for self determination of Jews - Judaism is all about Zionism, and there was a room for Palestinians which they didn't accept neither in Israel and Trans Jordan - irrationaly - with the later regrets that comes every few years of why NOT accepting any sort of land to imply they simply want it all, same applies for the term "refugees" which is no longer valid yet accepted even by the UN emphasizing the need of the Palestinians to back to Israel and establish instead a state of Palestine, so apparently Jews are the problem for them, can you disprove that?

3.The claim "one group" is ruling is nonsense, it's all lovely to hear once in a while the laughable claims for apartheid and such but since the Palestinians are refugees it means they're not in Israel, so bang goes the whole claim, unless you'd be able to disprove that either?

4.Yet again he repeat that Jews are the problem for the Palestinians - that suddenly expect us to forget all what they did to us, now that he said it's all because they're not Jews they can't cone back, care to relate to the other one quarter of non Jews that Zionism didn't stopped from living peacefully along with all civil rights?

5.Zionism is an ideology of racism - some very specific term of racism, the one that decide to - quotting "throw Jews into the sea" - Care to relate to that?

Stopped at 5:38.
We can continue after satisfying these questions of which Abunimah defined to construct the entire speech about, so let's observe them first, now I know you are not one of the brightest debaters around here so I will also invite every one that is interested in sharing their opinions, please feel free to elaborate.

The Jews were in Europe and they settled in Palestine to colonize it although more than 95% of the people inhabiting Palestine were Muslims and Christians. That's is why there is a problem. Everything else is bullshit.

They didn't colonize it. They legally declared independence using resolution 181 as a basis after following the steps to self determination. As I have proved before, the 'Palestinians' declared independence the same exact way in 1988.

Either way, it doesn't matter. Complaining about how Israel came to be doesn't help the situation. It was not sovereign Palestinian or Arab territory at the time. It was not their decision as to who could develop a country there. Israel not only created their state, but managed to hold on to it after Arab states tried to destroy it the day after declaring independence.
Not happy as to how Israel came to exist? Tough shit. You think every country was created peacefully ?

 

[toastman]

I think all of the posters should make clear if they are for a 2-state solution, one Palestine (Gd forbid) or one Israel. Even Norman Finklestein has come come to the realization that most pro-Palestinians want ALL of Israel. I think this is where we all stand:
pbel-2 states
monte-all Palestine
Billo reilly-2 states
Joe-all Palestine
toastman-2 states
Roudy-all Israel
Penelope-all Palestine

Too late for a two state since the hawkish jews have stole so much land and built on it, unless of course the Jews want to return the land?? Another issue the jews there are mainly atheist, secular, and really don't get along with the religious jews so there in you have another problem.

I think if I lived in Israel (God forbid) I'd live in Palestine, gaza , as far away from the jews as can be, I'd rather live with oppressed Palestinians that the arrogant ungodly jews.

I can understand having issues with Israel and it's policies - but you seem to hate ALL Jews everywhere. That's not very cool.

I can't stop laughing over the fact that Penelope thinks she/it has any credibility over the subject of Israel or Jews

 

[montelatici]

Few questions maybe you'd be able to answer;
1.How does Zionism stopped the Palestinians in the past to establish a state of their own, or even today?

2.Addressing the "Palestinian Problem" as he mentioned is a very misleading term, the real Palestinian Problem is the continuing aggressions in the past and today to violently override the right for self determination of Jews - Judaism is all about Zionism, and there was a room for Palestinians which they didn't accept neither in Israel and Trans Jordan - irrationaly - with the later regrets that comes every few years of why NOT accepting any sort of land to imply they simply want it all, same applies for the term "refugees" which is no longer valid yet accepted even by the UN emphasizing the need of the Palestinians to back to Israel and establish instead a state of Palestine, so apparently Jews are the problem for them, can you disprove that?

3.The claim "one group" is ruling is nonsense, it's all lovely to hear once in a while the laughable claims for apartheid and such but since the Palestinians are refugees it means they're not in Israel, so bang goes the whole claim, unless you'd be able to disprove that either?

4.Yet again he repeat that Jews are the problem for the Palestinians - that suddenly expect us to forget all what they did to us, now that he said it's all because they're not Jews they can't cone back, care to relate to the other one quarter of non Jews that Zionism didn't stopped from living peacefully along with all civil rights?

5.Zionism is an ideology of racism - some very specific term of racism, the one that decide to - quotting "throw Jews into the sea" - Care to relate to that?

Stopped at 5:38.
We can continue after satisfying these questions of which Abunimah defined to construct the entire speech about, so let's observe them first, now I know you are not one of the brightest debaters around here so I will also invite every one that is interested in sharing their opinions, please feel free to elaborate.

The Jews were in Europe and they settled in Palestine to colonize it although more than 95% of the people inhabiting Palestine were Muslims and Christians. That's is why there is a problem. Everything else is bullshit.

They didn't colonize it. They legally declared independence using resolution 181 as a basis after following the steps to self determination. As I have proved before, the 'Palestinians' declared independence the same exact way in 1988.

Either way, it doesn't matter. Complaining about how Israel came to be doesn't help the situation. It was not sovereign Palestinian or Arab territory at the time. It was not their decision as to who could develop a country there. Israel not only created their state, but managed to hold on to it after Arab states tried to destroy it the day after declaring independence.
Not happy as to how Israel came to exist? Tough shit. You think every country was created peacefully ?

People from Europe moved to Palestine to colonize it. Other people were living there. The Americas were not sovereign Indian territory, they were just living there. It is still colonization. You can gloat that the Europeans, supported by colonial powers, were able to defeat the inhabitants, but it is still colonization.

 

[toastman]

Few questions maybe you'd be able to answer;
1.How does Zionism stopped the Palestinians in the past to establish a state of their own, or even today?

2.Addressing the "Palestinian Problem" as he mentioned is a very misleading term, the real Palestinian Problem is the continuing aggressions in the past and today to violently override the right for self determination of Jews - Judaism is all about Zionism, and there was a room for Palestinians which they didn't accept neither in Israel and Trans Jordan - irrationaly - with the later regrets that comes every few years of why NOT accepting any sort of land to imply they simply want it all, same applies for the term "refugees" which is no longer valid yet accepted even by the UN emphasizing the need of the Palestinians to back to Israel and establish instead a state of Palestine, so apparently Jews are the problem for them, can you disprove that?

3.The claim "one group" is ruling is nonsense, it's all lovely to hear once in a while the laughable claims for apartheid and such but since the Palestinians are refugees it means they're not in Israel, so bang goes the whole claim, unless you'd be able to disprove that either?

4.Yet again he repeat that Jews are the problem for the Palestinians - that suddenly expect us to forget all what they did to us, now that he said it's all because they're not Jews they can't cone back, care to relate to the other one quarter of non Jews that Zionism didn't stopped from living peacefully along with all civil rights?

5.Zionism is an ideology of racism - some very specific term of racism, the one that decide to - quotting "throw Jews into the sea" - Care to relate to that?

Stopped at 5:38.
We can continue after satisfying these questions of which Abunimah defined to construct the entire speech about, so let's observe them first, now I know you are not one of the brightest debaters around here so I will also invite every one that is interested in sharing their opinions, please feel free to elaborate.

The Jews were in Europe and they settled in Palestine to colonize it although more than 95% of the people inhabiting Palestine were Muslims and Christians. That's is why there is a problem. Everything else is bullshit.

They didn't colonize it. They legally declared independence using resolution 181 as a basis after following the steps to self determination. As I have proved before, the 'Palestinians' declared independence the same exact way in 1988.

Either way, it doesn't matter. Complaining about how Israel came to be doesn't help the situation. It was not sovereign Palestinian or Arab territory at the time. It was not their decision as to who could develop a country there. Israel not only created their state, but managed to hold on to it after Arab states tried to destroy it the day after declaring independence.
Not happy as to how Israel came to exist? Tough shit. You think every country was created peacefully ?

People from Europe moved to Palestine to colonize it. Other people were living there. The Americas were not sovereign Indian territory, they were just living there. It is still colonization. You can gloat that the Europeans, supported by colonial powers, were able to defeat the inhabitants, but it is still colonization.

No, it isn't. Declaring independence is not colonization. Otherwise a colony would have been created. Israel is a sovereign state.

 

[montelatici]

Few questions maybe you'd be able to answer;
1.How does Zionism stopped the Palestinians in the past to establish a state of their own, or even today?

2.Addressing the "Palestinian Problem" as he mentioned is a very misleading term, the real Palestinian Problem is the continuing aggressions in the past and today to violently override the right for self determination of Jews - Judaism is all about Zionism, and there was a room for Palestinians which they didn't accept neither in Israel and Trans Jordan - irrationaly - with the later regrets that comes every few years of why NOT accepting any sort of land to imply they simply want it all, same applies for the term "refugees" which is no longer valid yet accepted even by the UN emphasizing the need of the Palestinians to back to Israel and establish instead a state of Palestine, so apparently Jews are the problem for them, can you disprove that?

3.The claim "one group" is ruling is nonsense, it's all lovely to hear once in a while the laughable claims for apartheid and such but since the Palestinians are refugees it means they're not in Israel, so bang goes the whole claim, unless you'd be able to disprove that either?

4.Yet again he repeat that Jews are the problem for the Palestinians - that suddenly expect us to forget all what they did to us, now that he said it's all because they're not Jews they can't cone back, care to relate to the other one quarter of non Jews that Zionism didn't stopped from living peacefully along with all civil rights?

5.Zionism is an ideology of racism - some very specific term of racism, the one that decide to - quotting "throw Jews into the sea" - Care to relate to that?

Stopped at 5:38.
We can continue after satisfying these questions of which Abunimah defined to construct the entire speech about, so let's observe them first, now I know you are not one of the brightest debaters around here so I will also invite every one that is interested in sharing their opinions, please feel free to elaborate.

The Jews were in Europe and they settled in Palestine to colonize it although more than 95% of the people inhabiting Palestine were Muslims and Christians. That's is why there is a problem. Everything else is bullshit.

They didn't colonize it. They legally declared independence using resolution 181 as a basis after following the steps to self determination. As I have proved before, the 'Palestinians' declared independence the same exact way in 1988.

Either way, it doesn't matter. Complaining about how Israel came to be doesn't help the situation. It was not sovereign Palestinian or Arab territory at the time. It was not their decision as to who could develop a country there. Israel not only created their state, but managed to hold on to it after Arab states tried to destroy it the day after declaring independence.
Not happy as to how Israel came to exist? Tough shit. You think every country was created peacefully ?

People from Europe moved to Palestine to colonize it. Other people were living there. The Americas were not sovereign Indian territory, they were just living there. It is still colonization. You can gloat that the Europeans, supported by colonial powers, were able to defeat the inhabitants, but it is still colonization.

No, it isn't. Declaring independence is not colonization. Otherwise a colony would have been created. Israel is a sovereign state.

Many colonies eventually become independent. The United States is an example.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Few questions maybe you'd be able to answer;
1.How does Zionism stopped the Palestinians in the past to establish a state of their own, or even today?

2.Addressing the "Palestinian Problem" as he mentioned is a very misleading term, the real Palestinian Problem is the continuing aggressions in the past and today to violently override the right for self determination of Jews - Judaism is all about Zionism, and there was a room for Palestinians which they didn't accept neither in Israel and Trans Jordan - irrationaly - with the later regrets that comes every few years of why NOT accepting any sort of land to imply they simply want it all, same applies for the term "refugees" which is no longer valid yet accepted even by the UN emphasizing the need of the Palestinians to back to Israel and establish instead a state of Palestine, so apparently Jews are the problem for them, can you disprove that?

3.The claim "one group" is ruling is nonsense, it's all lovely to hear once in a while the laughable claims for apartheid and such but since the Palestinians are refugees it means they're not in Israel, so bang goes the whole claim, unless you'd be able to disprove that either?

4.Yet again he repeat that Jews are the problem for the Palestinians - that suddenly expect us to forget all what they did to us, now that he said it's all because they're not Jews they can't cone back, care to relate to the other one quarter of non Jews that Zionism didn't stopped from living peacefully along with all civil rights?

5.Zionism is an ideology of racism - some very specific term of racism, the one that decide to - quotting "throw Jews into the sea" - Care to relate to that?

Stopped at 5:38.
We can continue after satisfying these questions of which Abunimah defined to construct the entire speech about, so let's observe them first, now I know you are not one of the brightest debaters around here so I will also invite every one that is interested in sharing their opinions, please feel free to elaborate.

Stopped at 5:38.

Perhaps viewing the remainder of the video would answer your questions.

BTW, what do you mean by "a state?"

 

[theliq]

I think all of the posters should make clear if they are for a 2-state solution, one Palestine (Gd forbid) or one Israel. Even Norman Finklestein has come come to the realization that most pro-Palestinians want ALL of Israel. I think this is where we all stand:
pbel-2 states
monte-all Palestine
Billo reilly-2 states
Joe-all Palestine
toastman-2 states
Roudy-all Israel
Penelope-all Palestine

Well you state clearly your own opinion that there should be only one state Israel........but YOU should have said so???????

There should be a two state solution,well I'm pragmatic,with UN Forces as interim Peace Keepers...to 1967 Borders..although I doubt Israel would like that...but this is the only way to change this schism........It would work....providing Palestine is left alone to get on with things,much business is ready to support Palestine.but will Israel let them???

 

[rhodescholar]

The one state idea is intriguing and there are those who think it could work. I'm skeptical - the hate, fear and mistrust on both sides has only hardened. Both have their extremists that are unwilling to bend. The only way it could work would be to have a Nelson Mandella type figure and a truth & reconciliation type of plan but there is nothing remotely like that on the horizon.

Why don't you provide the forum with the very, very long list of arab muslim countries where: 1-they've shared power with any other group non-violently 2-have afforded equal and fair rights to non-arab muslim minorities in majority arab muslim countries 3-arab muslims have maintained stable democracies anywhere in the mideast or africa?

Why don't you also inform us as to why, despite the fact that there are tens of millions of non-muslim minorities in the mideast, that NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM has self-determination or sovereignty? Why is it that not one single non-muslim group, even in areas where they are the majority, have not been able to form a naturalized country of their own with self-governance (other than Israel)?

Given the answers to the questions above are rather obvious, why would any sane adult believe for a nano-second that there is any remote possibility of arab muslims tolerating the existence of the jewish state of israel?

 

[theliq]

I think all of the posters should make clear if they are for a 2-state solution, one Palestine (Gd forbid) or one Israel. Even Norman Finklestein has come come to the realization that most pro-Palestinians want ALL of Israel. I think this is where we all stand:
pbel-2 states
monte-all Palestine
Billo reilly-2 states
Joe-all Palestine
toastman-2 states
Roudy-all Israel
Penelope-all Palestine

I couldn't care less. What difference does it make? One or two, how are we going to prosper and be a better America either way? Will either way solve our many social and economic woes? Will be freer? Will we have a brighter future? Will it end poverty, homelessness, and suffering in America? Will it end corruption in Washington politics?

Actually solving the I/P Conflict is probably one of the biggest achievements for mediating between the Western world and the M.E./Arab Muslims that would impact the rest of the world indirectly - Something Obama and Kerry knows very well. Having a solution - even a temporarily real status quo - could lead to one of the biggest revolutions in the world in terms of economy, war on terrorism, ethnic tolerance, and human perspective.
It probably won't be the cure to all of our problems, but it could be a major milestone on the road to a better world.

Very sensible post Danny..steve

 

[theliq]

The one state idea is intriguing and there are those who think it could work. I'm skeptical - the hate, fear and mistrust on both sides has only hardened. Both have their extremists that are unwilling to bend. The only way it could work would be to have a Nelson Mandella type figure and a truth & reconciliation type of plan but there is nothing remotely like that on the horizon.

Why don't you provide the forum with the very, very long list of arab muslim countries where: 1-they've shared power with any other group non-violently 2-have afforded equal and fair rights to non-arab muslim minorities in majority arab muslim countries 3-arab muslims have maintained stable democracies anywhere in the mideast or africa?

Why don't you also inform us as to why, despite the fact that there are tens of millions of non-muslim minorities in the mideast, that NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM has self-determination or sovereignty? Why is it that not one single non-muslim group, even in areas where they are the majority, have not been able to form a naturalized country of their own with self-governance (other than Israel)?

Given the answers to the questions above are rather obvious, why would any sane adult believe for a nano-second that there is any remote possibility of arab muslims tolerating the existence of the jewish state of israel?

Morrocco!!!...your post is poor, in fact and content.........stay unmotivated...............and not all Arabs want the demise of Israel at all.....it is just your stupid and shallow opinion.

 

[Daniyel]

The one state idea is intriguing and there are those who think it could work. I'm skeptical - the hate, fear and mistrust on both sides has only hardened. Both have their extremists that are unwilling to bend. The only way it could work would be to have a Nelson Mandella type figure and a truth & reconciliation type of plan but there is nothing remotely like that on the horizon.

Actually I'm more aligning to a "three(or two and a half)" states solution.

I don't think a half state is doable - it isn't working now is it? Are you thinking states of Gaza and Israel and WB half state?

It's little bit more complex than that, but the basics of the land are WB along with the Palestinians to be fully recognized part of Israel, Gaza a state of Palestine along with parts of the Negev(Kerem Shalom areas) - Terror linked Palestinians can only resident in Palestine or either surrender and stand for trial, while the rest would be granted with Israel ID and resettling support from Israel, those unwilling to accept would simply be deported to demilitarized Gaza, this is probably the only thing that can ever work out and be accepted for both parties but not in the current state and not with the current diplomatic chao, its Israel's responsibility to ensure the Palestinians would have their opinion in it rather than Fatah/Hamas IMHO.

Interesting. Something to think about as a possible solution.

However: Terror linked Palestinians can only resident in Palestine or either surrender and stand for trial...

Why not a "truth and reconciliation" effort as South Africa went through?

Because unlike SA we are talking about freed murderers that are being motivated by an ideology that causes them to wrap themselves with explosives, run high on drugs and go explode themselves nearby people - there is not much we can do about it and I think it actually makes sense not to want them anywhere nearby.
There is however something we can do for their families if they'd agree to stand for trial, that way it would be possible to filter all the rational minds and give them a fair offer. but those motivated by radical Islam have no place among us since they will never accept to live in peace in the first place.

 

[theliq]

I think all of the posters should make clear if they are for a 2-state solution, one Palestine (Gd forbid) or one Israel. Even Norman Finklestein has come come to the realization that most pro-Palestinians want ALL of Israel. I think this is where we all stand:
pbel-2 states
monte-all Palestine
Billo reilly-2 states
Joe-all Palestine
toastman-2 states
Roudy-all Israel
Penelope-all Palestine

Too late for a two state since the hawkish jews have stole so much land and built on it, unless of course the Jews want to return the land?? Another issue the jews there are mainly atheist, secular, and really don't get along with the religious jews so there in you have another problem.

I think if I lived in Israel (God forbid) I'd live in Palestine, gaza , as far away from the jews as can be, I'd rather live with oppressed Palestinians that the arrogant ungodly jews.

I can understand having issues with Israel and it's policies - but you seem to hate ALL Jews everywhere. That's not very cool.

I can understand your point........being as you are an uneducated Moron.........but I totally disagree with you summation........I love Jews (Some) and Palestinians etc,.

 

[Phoenall]

Too late for a two state since the hawkish jews have stole so much land and built on it, unless of course the Jews want to return the land?? Another issue the jews there are mainly atheist, secular, and really don't get along with the religious jews so there in you have another problem.

I think if I lived in Israel (God forbid) I'd live in Palestine, gaza , as far away from the jews as can be, I'd rather live with oppressed Palestinians that the arrogant ungodly jews.

Do you mean return it to themselves because they bought it prior to 1948

Give the land back that was stolen, but Israel wont. This will go on till Israel has it all. They are rewriting history as it is, one can't find a WWII movie not bias towards the Jews. The NG and History channels might as well be called "Hitler". I imagine in say 50 years, Palestinians, who were they, just like the Canaanites, just a distance memory. Jews still believe in Yahweh, their war god.

The land is Jewish under International law, and in 1949 the arab muslims forcibly evicted the Jews and took their land. It is detailed in the Jordanian law books if you look. So the facts show that you are talking shite.[/QUOTE]

No I'm sorry, The Arabs fought the Jews when they encroached on their land and well the Indians did the same with the white man. The Jews could of went on their own, a few at a time, but they had to create WWII to have a reason and some money to do mass immigration to Palestine. The secular jews did not care about the polish religious, aged or young jews, they wanted the poor ones to work the land , and young men, who could fight. By the time the war started most German jews had fled to Africa, the US and Britain.[/QUOTE]





What land that was stolen, how about a link to a non partisan source. While you are at it read the Koran and what it has to say about the land.

The arabs had not held sovereignty of the land since 1099 so how did they own the land.

The rest of your post is what you are told on a Friday in the mosque