Are you going to heaven?

[nitroz]

^Most likely me.

 

[Avatar4321]

How about the creeps with very public jail-house conversions right before execution?

When I was evangelizing for Jesus, I always told people that the only difference between Christians and those destined for an eternity in Hell was a request for forgiveness that began with an acknowledgement of sin, and yes, if he was sincere when he gave his heart to Jesus, Ted Bundy would be in Heaven.

What do y'all think?

I think repentence requires alot more than a death bed confession.

 

[MizMolly]

Nobody knows if there is such a place...I think it is a place in our minds, so Heaven is different for everyone.

 

[AVG-JOE]

How about the creeps with very public jail-house conversions right before execution?

When I was evangelizing for Jesus, I always told people that the only difference between Christians and those destined for an eternity in Hell was a request for forgiveness that began with an acknowledgement of sin, and yes, if he was sincere when he gave his heart to Jesus, Ted Bundy would be in Heaven.

What do y'all think?

I think repentence requires alot more than a death bed confession.

As I recall, it matters not what mere mortals think, the heart is judged by God alone.

If the Christians are right and the ticket to Heaven is not what you do or do not in life but in procuring Jesus as your lawyer when you face God on Judgement Day, the likes of Ted Bundy will be there.

Speaking statistically, sincerity, and therefore Salvation, simply must have occurred in many jailhouse and death bed evangelical moments, so ass-u-me-ing the Christians are right, any given mansion in Heaven may just be across the street of gold from a forgiven sex offender of the most heinous variety.

 

[Avatar4321]

Christianity, real Christianity, required repentence. Your mind and heart has to change.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Christianity, real Christianity, required repentence. Your mind and heart has to change.

And the one and only judge as to the sincerity of that change is......?

 

[Sarah G]

It depends on how literal the powers that be take me up there..

 

[LoneLaugher]

AVG JOE,

You are able to articulate what led to your losing faith. Are you also able to articulate what led to your gaining it in the first place?

 

[Truthmatters]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b7qaSxuZUg]Imagine - John Lennon - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Steelplate]

I believe in Christ, I don't think I've ever purposely hurt anyone to any serious degree.... my worst sins are my own vices. I pray for forgiveness of my own weaknesses in trying to change those vices and strength to keep trying to change them.

If that were all there is to it, I think I have a shot.

The one thing I cannot wrap my head around is one religion being "the" religion and all others being condemned to hell. Yes... I know... the bible says "no one gets to the father except through me"....But religion is oft-times cultural in nature.

Someone who was raised a Muslim, or a Buddhist, or a Hindu are all still God's children. I have a hard time fathoming that an all powerful entity could possibly be offended to the point of eternal damnation because those people don't worship him in the same manner as a Christian.

That is one area where I fall short of understanding and my faith is tested. There are other areas too, but this is the biggie for me. Why would an All-powerful/all knowing/all understanding entity demand all of these hoops that we have to jump through to prove our love and gratefulness to him? He already knows what is in our hearts. Sometimes, I wonder if the Council of Nicaea didn't add stuff to/leave stuff out of the scripture to appease Pagans and keep Rome in power.

 

[AVG-JOE]

AVG JOE,

You are able to articulate what led to your losing faith. Are you also able to articulate what led to your gaining it in the first place?

Of course. The ability to express myself clearly did not come with my self imposed fall from grace. It was there all along.

 

[LoneLaugher]

AVG JOE,

You are able to articulate what led to your losing faith. Are you also able to articulate what led to your gaining it in the first place?

Of course. The ability to express myself clearly did not come with my self imposed fall from grace. It was there all along.

Great. How about doing so, then. I believe you know that is what I was asking.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I believe in Christ, I don't think I've ever purposely hurt anyone to any serious degree.... my worst sins are my own vices. I pray for forgiveness of my own weaknesses in trying to change those vices and strength to keep trying to change them.

If that were all there is to it, I think I have a shot.

The one thing I cannot wrap my head around is one religion being "the" religion and all others being condemned to hell. Yes... I know... the bible says "no one gets to the father except through me"....But religion is oft-times cultural in nature.

Someone who was raised a Muslim, or a Buddhist, or a Hindu are all still God's children. I have a hard time fathoming that an all powerful entity could possibly be offended to the point of eternal damnation because those people don't worship him in the same manner as a Christian.

That is one area where I fall short of understanding and my faith is tested. There are other areas too, but this is the biggie for me. Why would an All-powerful/all knowing/all understanding entity demand all of these hoops that we have to jump through to prove our love and gratefulness to him? He already knows what is in our hearts. Sometimes, I wonder if the Council of Nicaea didn't add stuff to/leave stuff out of the scripture to appease Pagans and keep Rome in power.

Why would an all powerful Deity prove Himself over and over via miracles 6,000 to 2,000 years ago but not before or since?

 

[Dragon]

If you want to see an angel
You've got to find it where it fell.
If you want to get to Heaven,
You've got to raise a little Hell.

 

[Steelplate]

I believe in Christ, I don't think I've ever purposely hurt anyone to any serious degree.... my worst sins are my own vices. I pray for forgiveness of my own weaknesses in trying to change those vices and strength to keep trying to change them.

If that were all there is to it, I think I have a shot.

The one thing I cannot wrap my head around is one religion being "the" religion and all others being condemned to hell. Yes... I know... the bible says "no one gets to the father except through me"....But religion is oft-times cultural in nature.

Someone who was raised a Muslim, or a Buddhist, or a Hindu are all still God's children. I have a hard time fathoming that an all powerful entity could possibly be offended to the point of eternal damnation because those people don't worship him in the same manner as a Christian.

That is one area where I fall short of understanding and my faith is tested. There are other areas too, but this is the biggie for me. Why would an All-powerful/all knowing/all understanding entity demand all of these hoops that we have to jump through to prove our love and gratefulness to him? He already knows what is in our hearts. Sometimes, I wonder if the Council of Nicaea didn't add stuff to/leave stuff out of the scripture to appease Pagans and keep Rome in power.

Why would an all powerful Deity prove Himself over and over via miracles 6,000 to 2,000 years ago but not before or since?

Miracles are in the eye of the beholder. 2-6000 years ago, there was a lot more unexplained things(due to lack of knowledge/technology) than there is now. What passed for miracles back then are passe now.

Look, I am not shitting on your disbelief. You, as an American... have the right to believe/disbelieve anything you want. I happen to believe that there is an afterlife and a God. I can't prove it, and I don't feel I need to.

I think the ad nauseum debates on Creation vs. Evolution that occur on this forum are redundant and unnecessary. It's the equivalent of a person holding up a coin and two people on either side of the coin debating on whether it's heads or tails. God is in control of all of it... whether the world evolved or was created "as is".

That's why when a thread like this...one that actually explores something deeper than semantics comes up, I like to post in it. There are probably more that I haven't posted in... but that's because the vast majority of the time, all I see are Atheists trying disprove God and religious people trying to prove Atheists wrong. Neither side is ever going to win a debate like that... it's the "heads/tails" thing that I mentioned earlier. I don't need the aggravation of trying to prove the unprovable.

I'm looking for a deeper understanding and spiritual growth... that's all.

 

[Caroljo]

I believe in Christ, I don't think I've ever purposely hurt anyone to any serious degree.... my worst sins are my own vices. I pray for forgiveness of my own weaknesses in trying to change those vices and strength to keep trying to change them.

If that were all there is to it, I think I have a shot.

The one thing I cannot wrap my head around is one religion being "the" religion and all others being condemned to hell. Yes... I know... the bible says "no one gets to the father except through me"....But religion is oft-times cultural in nature.

Someone who was raised a Muslim, or a Buddhist, or a Hindu are all still God's children. I have a hard time fathoming that an all powerful entity could possibly be offended to the point of eternal damnation because those people don't worship him in the same manner as a Christian.

That is one area where I fall short of understanding and my faith is tested. There are other areas too, but this is the biggie for me. Why would an All-powerful/all knowing/all understanding entity demand all of these hoops that we have to jump through to prove our love and gratefulness to him? He already knows what is in our hearts. Sometimes, I wonder if the Council of Nicaea didn't add stuff to/leave stuff out of the scripture to appease Pagans and keep Rome in power.

I don't know much about all the other religions, someday i want to learn more, just to know! But you mention Muslim, and it's so hard for me to believe that our loving God would be the same god that they worship. I understand what you're saying though, and i think there's some truth in all the religions. And i can't help but believe though that the Christian religion is much closer to the truth than others.

And i'm sure even the Bible doesn't cover EVERYTHING that ever was written for it. I think people did remove certain chapters/versus. I often wonder what happened to Jesus fromt he time he was a very young man until he started evangelising (sp?) before his death. There's years missing. Why would the writers of the Bible just not write about him anymore for so long? There's lots of questions none of us will know the answers to until we are in God's presence.

 

[rightwinger]

I'm an atheist and all Atheists go to heaven

that's just the way it is

 

[AVG-JOE]

AVG JOE,

You are able to articulate what led to your losing faith. Are you also able to articulate what led to your gaining it in the first place?

Of course. The ability to express myself clearly did not come with my self imposed fall from grace. It was there all along.

Great. How about doing so, then. I believe you know that is what I was asking.

I do - I'm just sneaking in for a snippet here and there when I get a break at work - I'll post the story after 5 EST.

 

[Douger]

Is that near Playa Guiones ?

 

[koshergrl]

How about the creeps with very public jail-house conversions right before execution?

When I was evangelizing for Jesus, I always told people that the only difference between Christians and those destined for an eternity in Hell was a request for forgiveness that began with an acknowledgement of sin, and yes, if he was sincere when he gave his heart to Jesus, Ted Bundy would be in Heaven.

What do y'all think?

I think it's between them and God.

I hope that all those who repent and ask for the internvention of Christ obtain it. I hope that everybody in the world past, present, and future will attain heaven.

But I know they won't.

I feel very strongly about working with the lost souls in prison, and children in lock down as well. I don't know at this point in my life how effective I could be, particularly as I'm also a woman, but I have compassion for lost criminals. I have compassion for victims as well, but their suffering is of a different sort and they are not generally universally hated and avoided by those who are most likely to be in a position to assist them. I've no interest in changing the sentences of convicted criminals, or interfering with court mandated punishments, but I do wish that the tormented souls who commit the most awful crimes could at some point find some sort of peace within themselves, between themselves, and God...including the peace that comes with accepting your fate, and dealing with the consequences of your actions.

I'm also drawn to victims of the worst crimes, and those who were brutally and/or systematically abused as children and who suffer inwardly in ways that most of us have no comprehension of. I know the healing that God can bring about, and the joy that comes when damaged and hurting people learn they can turn that pain and horror over to God, and experience joy again.