Are We Alone in the Universe?

[Dr Grump]

I don't think the Christopher Columbus comparison is a good one. Back then, even though he and his men were exploratory in nature, they were still very ignorant vis-a-vis physics and a plethora of other knowledge that we know now. The kind of people we have working on the various space programmes around the world are not the conquering kind. They are geeks. Most astronauts are University Educated airmen and women, scientists etc.

I tend to side with those that think if somebody running around exploring space I doubt, that once they found a new place, they would then set about destroying it. Unless they are a species like those found on science fiction such as Independence Day or that terrible movie Skyline...

 

[DiveCon]

Bob,

Usually eternal optimists get on my nerves. Strangely you do not evoke that in me. If not for the outcome of a handful of battles in WWII this world would be an entirely different place. In the entire history of the modern human race how could any outside observer look at us and determine we are a peaceful species.

We are living in an anomaly. Even though there is less wanton carnage during our lifetime than is usually the case in our history the bigger picture of time suggests a far less benign and forgiving judgment.

I am curious how you arrive at the prediction that alien life will be "nice" based on our track record. We are still murdering each other at a pretty good clip. 24,000 in the USA alone last year. Then there are the more organized "will of the people" killings as governments will do in our names.

Is there some formula that aides your speculation? Do you just "want" us to be these kind and benevolent creatures in spite of the evidence and hope as you will for our goodness, transfer that dream as a projection onto extra terrestrial life?

Let's just speculate that aliens have been watching us... what do you think they might believe with more weight?.. Your or my wishful thinking or FBI statistics?

If aliens are atheistic we are fucked. They would look at us and think we are almost all out of our minds.

If they have a god it would most certainly conflict with our gods and present an entirely different problem. You know damn well that these crazy Christians ..possibly you included(I saw your Christian site affiliation) and Muslims would rather die than accept an alien god.

Sean Corey

ever seen the movie "the Abyss"?

 

[Robert_Stephens]

I don't think the Christopher Columbus comparison is a good one. Back then, even though he and his men were exploratory in nature, they were still very ignorant vis-a-vis physics and a plethora of other knowledge that we know now. The kind of people we have working on the various space programmes around the world are not the conquering kind. They are geeks. Most astronauts are University Educated airmen and women, scientists etc.

I tend to side with those that think if somebody running around exploring space I doubt, that once they found a new place, they would then set about destroying it. Unless they are a species like those found on science fiction such as Independence Day or that terrible movie Skyline...

In current thinking and study, you are correct. Totally. After all these years, being objective, I agree. The numbers speak for themselves.

Good post,

Robert

 

[HUGGY]

I don't think the Christopher Columbus comparison is a good one. Back then, even though he and his men were exploratory in nature, they were still very ignorant vis-a-vis physics and a plethora of other knowledge that we know now. The kind of people we have working on the various space programmes around the world are not the conquering kind. They are geeks. Most astronauts are University Educated airmen and women, scientists etc.

I tend to side with those that think if somebody running around exploring space I doubt, that once they found a new place, they would then set about destroying it. Unless they are a species like those found on science fiction such as Independence Day or that terrible movie Skyline...

That's pretty funny. Ya...they "explored" as many ways as they could think of to murder and torture almost ALL of the indigenous people.

 

[DiveCon]

I don't think the Christopher Columbus comparison is a good one. Back then, even though he and his men were exploratory in nature, they were still very ignorant vis-a-vis physics and a plethora of other knowledge that we know now. The kind of people we have working on the various space programmes around the world are not the conquering kind. They are geeks. Most astronauts are University Educated airmen and women, scientists etc.

I tend to side with those that think if somebody running around exploring space I doubt, that once they found a new place, they would then set about destroying it. Unless they are a species like those found on science fiction such as Independence Day or that terrible movie Skyline...

That's pretty funny. Ya...they "explored" as many ways as they could think of to murder and torture almost ALL of the indigenous people.

Columbus?
or do you mean those that came after him?

 

[Dr Grump]

I don't think the Christopher Columbus comparison is a good one. Back then, even though he and his men were exploratory in nature, they were still very ignorant vis-a-vis physics and a plethora of other knowledge that we know now. The kind of people we have working on the various space programmes around the world are not the conquering kind. They are geeks. Most astronauts are University Educated airmen and women, scientists etc.

I tend to side with those that think if somebody running around exploring space I doubt, that once they found a new place, they would then set about destroying it. Unless they are a species like those found on science fiction such as Independence Day or that terrible movie Skyline...

That's pretty funny. Ya...they "explored" as many ways as they could think of to murder and torture almost ALL of the indigenous people.

Well, the men who led those ventures were exploratory in nature.

I also don't like putting 21st century Western norms, morals, mores and truisms on 15th century Europe - in fact, any current norm that was eligible pre 1945....

 

[Robert_Stephens]

Bob,

Usually eternal optimists get on my nerves. Strangely you do not evoke that in me. If not for the outcome of a handful of battles in WWII this world would be an entirely different place. In the entire history of the modern human race how could any outside observer look at us and determine we are a peaceful species.

We are living in an anomaly. Even though there is less wanton carnage during our lifetime than is usually the case in our history the bigger picture of time suggests a far less benign and forgiving judgment.

I am curious how you arrive at the prediction that alien life will be "nice" based on our track record. We are still murdering each other at a pretty good clip. 24,000 in the USA alone last year. Then there are the more organized "will of the people" killings as governments will do in our names.

Is there some formula that aides your speculation? Do you just "want" us to be these kind and benevolent creatures in spite of the evidence and hope as you will for our goodness, transfer that dream as a projection onto extra terrestrial life?

Let's just speculate that aliens have been watching us... what do you think they might believe with more weight?.. Your or my wishful thinking or FBI statistics?

If aliens are atheistic we are fucked. They would look at us and think we are almost all out of our minds.

If they have a god it would most certainly conflict with our gods and present an entirely different problem. You know damn well that these crazy Christians ..possibly you included(I saw your Christian site affiliation) and Muslims would rather die than accept an alien god.

Sean Corey

You are grossly mistaken, being fair. The answer to your own query is in your own post thus quoted here;

24,000 in the USA alone last year.

Out of 310 million, incredible odds. That's a 99.868% success rate. Not bad.

Lets look at all the wars since 1919--WW1, WW2, all others. Deaths: 46 million. Population of planet: 7 billion. Staggering ratio. Higher than 99.5%

It has nothing to do with Gods, or positive thinking, or being wishful or hoping on a star. Its just hard, cold, demographic unmitigated fact. We are a planet that abides, still.

It then suggest that space faring civilizations has gotten past conquest and embrace discovery as I have mentioned repeatedly in this thread.

Look around you right now, in your place. Any threats? Are you full? Are you warm/cool? Do you have lighting? Medicines?, --you obviously have a computer, etc etc. The point is its better for you, and me, than say, 11,000 years ago on this continent or in our time-place as of now.

Consider.

Robert

 

[HUGGY]

Bob,

Usually eternal optimists get on my nerves. Strangely you do not evoke that in me. If not for the outcome of a handful of battles in WWII this world would be an entirely different place. In the entire history of the modern human race how could any outside observer look at us and determine we are a peaceful species.

We are living in an anomaly. Even though there is less wanton carnage during our lifetime than is usually the case in our history the bigger picture of time suggests a far less benign and forgiving judgment.

I am curious how you arrive at the prediction that alien life will be "nice" based on our track record. We are still murdering each other at a pretty good clip. 24,000 in the USA alone last year. Then there are the more organized "will of the people" killings as governments will do in our names.

Is there some formula that aides your speculation? Do you just "want" us to be these kind and benevolent creatures in spite of the evidence and hope as you will for our goodness, transfer that dream as a projection onto extra terrestrial life?

Let's just speculate that aliens have been watching us... what do you think they might believe with more weight?.. Your or my wishful thinking or FBI statistics?

If aliens are atheistic we are fucked. They would look at us and think we are almost all out of our minds.

If they have a god it would most certainly conflict with our gods and present an entirely different problem. You know damn well that these crazy Christians ..possibly you included(I saw your Christian site affiliation) and Muslims would rather die than accept an alien god.

Sean Corey

ever seen the movie "the Abyss"?

I've tried to watch it several times but I have a problem with water creature sci fi.

Has there ever been a sci fi movie made where we do not come out the winner?

That premise alone is ridiculous beyond the pale. Stop and think about it. "They" come a billion light years overcoming all kinds of grief and get stopped in their tracks by us?

Ya...right. I would like to see the report they send back to HQ. "UHHHhh.. ya....those humans...well ...they didn't act like Lucille Ball or the Three Stooges like we saw on their television broadcasts.." HQ: "Say what motherfucker?" Aliens: "UHHHhh...ya they kicked our asses....UHHHhh.....HQ you are breaking up... Alien makes garbled sound into the microphone.....".....

 

[DiveCon]

Bob,

Usually eternal optimists get on my nerves. Strangely you do not evoke that in me. If not for the outcome of a handful of battles in WWII this world would be an entirely different place. In the entire history of the modern human race how could any outside observer look at us and determine we are a peaceful species.

We are living in an anomaly. Even though there is less wanton carnage during our lifetime than is usually the case in our history the bigger picture of time suggests a far less benign and forgiving judgment.

I am curious how you arrive at the prediction that alien life will be "nice" based on our track record. We are still murdering each other at a pretty good clip. 24,000 in the USA alone last year. Then there are the more organized "will of the people" killings as governments will do in our names.

Is there some formula that aides your speculation? Do you just "want" us to be these kind and benevolent creatures in spite of the evidence and hope as you will for our goodness, transfer that dream as a projection onto extra terrestrial life?

Let's just speculate that aliens have been watching us... what do you think they might believe with more weight?.. Your or my wishful thinking or FBI statistics?

If aliens are atheistic we are fucked. They would look at us and think we are almost all out of our minds.

If they have a god it would most certainly conflict with our gods and present an entirely different problem. You know damn well that these crazy Christians ..possibly you included(I saw your Christian site affiliation) and Muslims would rather die than accept an alien god.

Sean Corey

ever seen the movie "the Abyss"?

I've tried to watch it several times but I have a problem with water creature sci fi.

Has there ever been a sci fi movie made where we do not come out the winner?

That premise alone is ridiculous beyond the pale. Stop and think about it. "They" come a billion light years overcoming all kinds of grief and get stopped in their tracks by us?

Ya...right. I would like to see the report they send back to HQ. "UHHHhh.. ya....those humans...well ...they didn't act like Lucille Ball or the Three Stooges like we saw on their television broadcasts.." HQ: "Say what motherfucker?" Aliens: "UHHHhh...ya they kicked our asses....UHHHhh.....HQ you are breaking up... Alien makes garbled sound into the microphone.....".....

uh, watch the movie
you clearly didnt get it
LOL

 

[Robert_Stephens]

I don't think the Christopher Columbus comparison is a good one. Back then, even though he and his men were exploratory in nature, they were still very ignorant vis-a-vis physics and a plethora of other knowledge that we know now. The kind of people we have working on the various space programmes around the world are not the conquering kind. They are geeks. Most astronauts are University Educated airmen and women, scientists etc.

I tend to side with those that think if somebody running around exploring space I doubt, that once they found a new place, they would then set about destroying it. Unless they are a species like those found on science fiction such as Independence Day or that terrible movie Skyline...

That's pretty funny. Ya...they "explored" as many ways as they could think of to murder and torture almost ALL of the indigenous people.

Columbus?
or do you mean those that came after him?

Columbus. for me, he never would have made it off the beach or the rest of the Catholic butchers.

Read the book 1491. Columbus was proceeded by Mongols from China 8000 years before, into the Yucatan, Mayan world, trading with each other.

We use this tome in the field now, and it is incredible.

"1491" by Charles C. Mann

Robert

 

[HUGGY]

ever seen the movie "the Abyss"?

I've tried to watch it several times but I have a problem with water creature sci fi.

Has there ever been a sci fi movie made where we do not come out the winner?

That premise alone is ridiculous beyond the pale. Stop and think about it. "They" come a billion light years overcoming all kinds of grief and get stopped in their tracks by us?

Ya...right. I would like to see the report they send back to HQ. "UHHHhh.. ya....those humans...well ...they didn't act like Lucille Ball or the Three Stooges like we saw on their television broadcasts.." HQ: "Say what motherfucker?" Aliens: "UHHHhh...ya they kicked our asses....UHHHhh.....HQ you are breaking up... Alien makes garbled sound into the microphone.....".....

uh, watch the movie
you clearly didnt get it
I clearly wasn't trying to "get it".
LOL

I bet I tried to watch it at least half a dozen times over the years. It just didn't hold my attention.

That is most likely not going to happen. I get all my movies for free but my buddy has to take the time to download them. Oldies are a lot harder to find. Give me the Cliff Notes version if you don't mind... I would appreciate it.....I'll take your word for the interpretation. It obviously made an impression on you...please share your thoughts on it.

 

[HUGGY]

Bob,

Usually eternal optimists get on my nerves. Strangely you do not evoke that in me. If not for the outcome of a handful of battles in WWII this world would be an entirely different place. In the entire history of the modern human race how could any outside observer look at us and determine we are a peaceful species.

We are living in an anomaly. Even though there is less wanton carnage during our lifetime than is usually the case in our history the bigger picture of time suggests a far less benign and forgiving judgment.

I am curious how you arrive at the prediction that alien life will be "nice" based on our track record. We are still murdering each other at a pretty good clip. 24,000 in the USA alone last year. Then there are the more organized "will of the people" killings as governments will do in our names.

Is there some formula that aides your speculation? Do you just "want" us to be these kind and benevolent creatures in spite of the evidence and hope as you will for our goodness, transfer that dream as a projection onto extra terrestrial life?

Let's just speculate that aliens have been watching us... what do you think they might believe with more weight?.. Your or my wishful thinking or FBI statistics?

If aliens are atheistic we are fucked. They would look at us and think we are almost all out of our minds.

If they have a god it would most certainly conflict with our gods and present an entirely different problem. You know damn well that these crazy Christians ..possibly you included(I saw your Christian site affiliation) and Muslims would rather die than accept an alien god.

Sean Corey

You are grossly mistaken, being fair. And we were doing so well! The answer to your own query is in your own post thus quoted here;

24,000 in the USA alone last year.

Out of 310 million, incredible odds. That's a 99.868% success rate. Not bad.

Lets look at all the wars since 1919--WW1, WW2, all others. Deaths: 46 million. Population of planet: 7 billion. Staggering ratio. Higher than 99.5%

It has nothing to do with Gods, or positive thinking, or being wishful or hoping on a star. Its just hard, cold, demographic unmitigated fact. We are a planet that abides, still.

It then suggest that space faring civilizations has gotten past conquest and embrace discovery as I have mentioned repeatedly in this thread.

Look around you right now, in your place. Any threats? Every day. Been shot at last year..threatened more times than I can remember. Car vandalized,, I guard a closed motel for the owner, a friend, in one of the most violent parts of North Seattle...have been since last January. Are you full? Are you warm/cool? Do you have lighting? Medicines?, --you obviously have a computer, etc etc. The point is its better for you, and me, than say, 11,000 years ago on this continent or in our time-place as of now.

Consider.

Robert

I'm gonna consider that a non violent species is just that. I doubt a truly evolved alien race would be able to justify even one murder. I mean since we are giving them all this credit and everything.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Bob,

Usually eternal optimists get on my nerves. Strangely you do not evoke that in me. If not for the outcome of a handful of battles in WWII this world would be an entirely different place. In the entire history of the modern human race how could any outside observer look at us and determine we are a peaceful species.

We are living in an anomaly. Even though there is less wanton carnage during our lifetime than is usually the case in our history the bigger picture of time suggests a far less benign and forgiving judgment.

I am curious how you arrive at the prediction that alien life will be "nice" based on our track record. We are still murdering each other at a pretty good clip. 24,000 in the USA alone last year. Then there are the more organized "will of the people" killings as governments will do in our names.

Is there some formula that aides your speculation? Do you just "want" us to be these kind and benevolent creatures in spite of the evidence and hope as you will for our goodness, transfer that dream as a projection onto extra terrestrial life?

Let's just speculate that aliens have been watching us... what do you think they might believe with more weight?.. Your or my wishful thinking or FBI statistics?

If aliens are atheistic we are fucked. They would look at us and think we are almost all out of our minds.

If they have a god it would most certainly conflict with our gods and present an entirely different problem. You know damn well that these crazy Christians ..possibly you included(I saw your Christian site affiliation) and Muslims would rather die than accept an alien god.

Sean Corey

You are grossly mistaken, being fair. The answer to your own query is in your own post thus quoted here;

24,000 in the USA alone last year.

Out of 310 million, incredible odds. That's a 99.868% success rate. Not bad.

Lets look at all the wars since 1919--WW1, WW2, all others. Deaths: 46 million. Population of planet: 7 billion. Staggering ratio. Higher than 99.5%

It has nothing to do with Gods, or positive thinking, or being wishful or hoping on a star. Its just hard, cold, demographic unmitigated fact. We are a planet that abides, still.

It then suggest that space faring civilizations has gotten past conquest and embrace discovery as I have mentioned repeatedly in this thread.

Look around you right now, in your place. Any threats? Are you full? Are you warm/cool? Do you have lighting? Medicines?, --you obviously have a computer, etc etc. The point is its better for you, and me, than say, 11,000 years ago on this continent or in our time-place as of now.

Consider.

Robert

Hey Bob, do you still "have the ability and software to resolve through HST a license plate number on a car at 100 miles from low earth orbit."?

Inquiring minds and all.

 

[HUGGY]

That's pretty funny. Ya...they "explored" as many ways as they could think of to murder and torture almost ALL of the indigenous people.

Columbus?
or do you mean those that came after him?

Columbus. for me, he never would have made it off the beach or the rest of the Catholic butchers.

That's the Bobby I like to think I'm getting to know...

Read the book 1491. Columbus was proceeded by Mongols from China 8000 years before, into the Yucatan, Mayan world, trading with each other.

We use this tome in the field now, and it is incredible.

"1491" by Charles C. Mann

Robert

Sean

 

[Dr Grump]

Has there ever been a sci fi movie made where we do not come out the winner?

Skyline..although it's a crap movie...

 

[Robert_Stephens]

I'm gonna consider that a non violent species is just that. I doubt a truly evolved alien race would be able to justify even one murder. I mean since we are giving them all this credit and everything.

Actually, this is good debate. Oh, get out of north Seattle. I wouldn't go in their even with a search warrant. Gig Harbor, yes, but the wet is just beyond coping. I no longer come back incountry through there. I come in down home into Cozumel, MX.

Look at the numbers I posted. Those are facts. That is what we go by. Fact, not conjecture or feelings. Just something to consider. The items you presented are valid, no argument, but that is not the whole nor is it the bases for fact.

Hope that is helpful. It has nothing to do with non-violent. It has to do they are past conquest. That is the key. Put another way for point, we no longer hunt ants, hunker down and eat them. We stand back or kneel down and study them. Why? We are past killing ants. We have evolved past that.

Just a thought.

Robert

 

[HUGGY]

Has there ever been a sci fi movie made where we do not come out the winner?

Skyline..although it's a crap movie...

Come to think of it..."Android" was a win for the robots. There was a Moon Mining movie where clones took home the bacon also.

 

[Robert_Stephens]

Hey Bob, do you still "have the ability and software to resolve through HST a license plate number on a car at 100 miles from low earth orbit."?

Inquiring minds and all.

Do you?

But, yes I can.

http://www.rocketroberts.com/astro/flag_on_moon.htm

Robert

 

[Grace]

I just finished watching Firefly series on netflix. That hits closer to "possible" than anything else. After all...a utopian society of the haves and have nots, wars, drugs to make people mellow and turning in to warped crazies that eat other people. If any space stuff happens, I think that's about as close as it will get. And even then, other alien civilizations would still think our species not advanced enough and just watch us from afar all the planets we terra farmed and then commenced to war over...just like we do right here right now on earth.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[DiveCon]

Has there ever been a sci fi movie made where we do not come out the winner?

Skyline..although it's a crap movie...

Come to think of it..."Android" was a win for the robots. There was a Moon Mining movie where clones took home the bacon also.

we didnt exactly "win" in "the Abyss"
if it wasnt for the generally good nature of the aliens, we would have been toast