Are progressives actually open-minded?

[P@triot]

Affordable Healthcare should be a right.

Rights cannot be something that costs money you nitwit.

 

[P@triot]

Oh boy! Am I talking to a libertarian?

Oh boy! Are we talking to a progressive nitwit who believes in slavery? Believes that they are entitled to someone else's labor?

 

[sealybobo]

Affordable Healthcare should be a right.

Rights cannot be something that costs money you nitwit.

Whatever. Im keeping an open mind. That doesn't mean I'm going to agree with your theories. I'll have to see the results they produce.

Did you keep an open mind in 2009? No. None of you did.

I have no choice. You get to implement your ideas. Will you admit when if they don't work? Based on 2007 you won't. And if you produce those same results you'll be voted out.

The main people hurting in America are blue collar and the unemployed. The poor basically. Or lower middle class. Let's see you help them.

My guess is once you are in charge the only thing you will offer them is advice. Watch

 

[sealybobo]

Yup. Thats

Oh boy! Am I talking to a libertarian?

Oh boy! Are we talking to a progressive nitwit who believes in slavery? Believes that they are entitled to someone else's labor?

Yup. You nailed it. I want what you have. Gimme gimme gimme

 

[P@triot]

Yup. Thats

Oh boy! Am I talking to a libertarian?

Oh boy! Are we talking to a progressive nitwit who believes in slavery? Believes that they are entitled to someone else's labor?

Yup. You nailed it. I want what you have. Gimme gimme gimme

Well you said that (and I quote) "affordable healthcare should be a right". The only way to do so is to make physicians perform their labor free or at massively reduced costs (that's slavery) or to take the fruits of someone else's labor to pay the full cost (that is also slavery).

It's your words.

 

[sealybobo]

It should be a right. I don't know what solution would make you happy. Maybe we have government funded hospitals that provide life saving services for cheap to compete with private insurance.

And we pay any students school if they agree to work for these hospitals for ten years. They'll only make $100k a year vs a private doctor who makes $300k but this would be a great program for people who don't go to school because of the costs.

These hospitals would be in every poor big city. Long waiting lists and not as good as private but an option for people who can't afford or don't want insurance.

Remember our hospitals aren't free to turn away people who can't pay. That's not freedom either. Do you want to get rid of that?

 

[NightFox]

I disagree. Remember those pharma companies who overcharged?

Ummm..no, because there is no such thing as "overcharged"; if the ask is too high then you don't have to pay the ask, it's called voluntary exchange and it works just fine as long as you keep third parties (government) out of it. Companies can't charge more than their customers are willing to pay for their products and/or services, otherwise companies don't stay in business and more efficient producers take their place. The only time that equation becomes short-circuited is when you get politicians and bureaucrats involved, then it becomes involuntary exchange and the price mechanism gets distorted to the point where it no longer reflects true supply/demand and cost of production.

Then I would also guess you're OK with denying people who have pre existing conditions?

For insurance? You bet I am OK with it, you can't insure against risk that has already occurred, but we don't have health insurance anymore, what we have is a bastardized health care market and "health care cost shifting" policies, which is why health care is so fucking expensive.

And I bet you also think public schools should be ended and only people who want to and can afford an education should get one. Is that right? An education isn't a right either?

No, education isn't a right unless you can provide it for yourself, it's another "goods and services", I don't understand why this concept is so hard for you to grasp, it's very simple, YOU DON'T HAVE A RIGHT TO SOMEBODY ELSE'S LABOR.

 

[sealybobo]

Ah h

Yup. Thats

Oh boy! Am I talking to a libertarian?

Oh boy! Are we talking to a progressive nitwit who believes in slavery? Believes that they are entitled to someone else's labor?

Yup. You nailed it. I want what you have. Gimme gimme gimme

Well you said that (and I quote) "affordable healthcare should be a right". The only way to do so is to make physicians perform their labor free or at massively reduced costs (that's slavery) or to take the fruits of someone else's labor to pay the full cost (that is also slavery).

It's your words.

AH ha! We already do make doctors provide services on people who can't pay.
Do you want to end that?

 

[peach174]

Affordable Healthcare should be a right.

Rights cannot be something that costs money you nitwit.

Whatever. Im keeping an open mind. That doesn't mean I'm going to agree with your theories. I'll have to see the results they produce.

Did you keep an open mind in 2009? No. None of you did.

I have no choice. You get to implement your ideas. Will you admit when if they don't work? Based on 2007 you won't. And if you produce those same results you'll be voted out.

The main people hurting in America are blue collar and the unemployed. The poor basically. Or lower middle class. Let's see you help them.

My guess is once you are in charge the only thing you will offer them is advice. Watch

Welfare programs is what caused them to be suffering.President Johnsons war on poverty has always been a failure
Taking blue collars dollars to help the poor harms both.
We need programs that work to get the poor out of poverty, not the poor living paycheck to paycheck each month from the collections of the blue collar workers.

 

[koshergrl]

Our society is becoming more selfish and stupid. That's why cons won.

I rest my case. This liberal wrote an article about how his side calls anyone who doesn't vote for their candidates "racist" and "stupid". Sealy's first post says she is "open-minded". Her second posts says "society is stupid" for not voting for Hillary.

Folks...you can't make this stuff up. I'm 100% convinced now that Sealy needs meds. There is a serious mental health issue there. Anyone who can contradict themselves that quick is not sane.

Keep in mind that boob is on my ignore list because he used to follow me around attaching tags to my posts telling people to rape me, and posting his desire for me and my kids to die in various and assorted ways.

 

[sealybobo]

I disagree. Remember those pharma companies who overcharged?

Ummm..no, because there is no such thing as "overcharged"; if the ask is too high then you don't have to pay the ask, it's called voluntary exchange and it works just fine as long as you keep third parties (government) out of it. Companies can't charge more than their customers are willing to pay for their products and/or services, otherwise companies don't stay in business and more efficient producers take their place. The only time that equation becomes short-circuited is when you get politicians and bureaucrats involved, then it becomes involuntary exchange and the price mechanism gets distorted to the point where it no longer reflects true supply/demand and cost of production.

Then I would also guess you're OK with denying people who have pre existing conditions?

For insurance? You bet I am OK with it, you can't insure against risk that has already occurred, but we don't have health insurance anymore, what we have is a bastardized health care market and "health care cost shifting" policies, which is why health care is so fucking expensive.

And I bet you also think public schools should be ended and only people who want to and can afford an education should get one. Is that right? An education isn't a right either?

No, education isn't a right unless you can provide it for yourself, it's another "goods and services", I don't understand why this concept is so hard for you to grasp, it's very simple, YOU DON'T HAVE A RIGHT TO SOMEBODY ELSE'S LABOR.

A corporation doesn't give a fuck if " their customers" can afford. If they charged $100 they would make $3 million and everyone could afford it. But they figured out they can make more charging $500 even though they'll lose 1/3 of their customers.

And if it's a life saving product they can gouge the other 2/3rds of their customers and nothing anyone could do about it.

The 1/3 die?

 

[sealybobo]

Affordable Healthcare should be a right.

Rights cannot be something that costs money you nitwit.

Whatever. Im keeping an open mind. That doesn't mean I'm going to agree with your theories. I'll have to see the results they produce.

Did you keep an open mind in 2009? No. None of you did.

I have no choice. You get to implement your ideas. Will you admit when if they don't work? Based on 2007 you won't. And if you produce those same results you'll be voted out.

The main people hurting in America are blue collar and the unemployed. The poor basically. Or lower middle class. Let's see you help them.

My guess is once you are in charge the only thing you will offer them is advice. Watch

Welfare programs is what caused them to be suffering.President Johnsons war on poverty has always been a failure
Taking blue collars dollars to help the poor harms both.
We need programs that work to get the poor out of poverty, not the poor living paycheck to paycheck each month from the collections of the blue collar workers.

We are going to try it your way. If you are right my life will get better. I don't think you are right but there is nothing stopping you guys from trying.

God I hope I'm wrong. And us successful liberals don't 100% disagree. Think about this. If you are right and the GOP are doing good by us then they should have no problem picking up even more seats in 2018 and even more riding trumps coat tails in 2020.

And Isis, crime, poverty, unemployment, wages, healthcare will all be lower or better.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Progressives claim to be "open-minded" but over the past decade or so, all evidence to the contrary. That is, until I came across this article from a homosexual muslim immigrant named Riaz Patel. He illustrated a true open-mind. I wonder how many progressives on USMB would even be willing to read what he has to say with an open-mind, much less do what he actually did. What about it sealybobo, candycorn, Slade3200, and jillian? Can you click the link below and read the entire (short) article from a fellow Hillary-supporting progressive with an open-mind?

• There exists a HUGE population in America who are desperately struggling to feed their families.

• They feel their needs are not authentically represented within this huge government.

• They feel their concerns are not being voiced by any major news outlet.

• They are tired of being called “dumb,” “bigoted” and “racist.”

• On my flight back, I realized that for many of us supporting Hillary, this election was about incredibly important social issues. It was a moral election for us. To most of the people I met on my trip, it was about survival. Literally.

• So when I read Facebook/Twitter posts this morning vilifying 50% of the country for being dumb or racist, I remember Nicole, Jim & Paula and I know that’s not true.

What a gay muslim Pakistani-american immigrant learned traveling to Alaska

Uh, where on the Right is the enthusiasm for welcoming a gay Muslim immigrant to this country,

or for that matter, even being amenable to the idea of having gay Muslims already here?

 

[P@triot]

AH ha! We already do make doctors provide services on people who can't pay.

Yeah...and that's exactly when healthcare costs started to spiral out of control. That's what happens ever time the government gets involved in private industry.

Do you want to end that?

Abso-freaking-lutely. We don't demand that Walmart provide free food to starving people, why do we demand that hospitals provide free healthcare to sick people?

Especially considering that a person's inability to pay today is no indication of their ability to pay tomorrow. Put them on a payment plan so they are responsible for their own damn healthcare.

In addition, all of you faux bleeding-heart progressives can create a foundation to cover the healthcare costs of those in need. That is, if you people aren't too greedy and lazy to do so!

 

[NYcarbineer]

I disagree. Remember those pharma companies who overcharged?

Ummm..no, because there is no such thing as "overcharged"; if the ask is too high then you don't have to pay the ask, it's called voluntary exchange and it works just fine as long as you keep third parties (government) out of it. Companies can't charge more than their customers are willing to pay for their products and/or services, otherwise companies don't stay in business and more efficient producers take their place. The only time that equation becomes short-circuited is when you get politicians and bureaucrats involved, then it becomes involuntary exchange and the price mechanism gets distorted to the point where it no longer reflects true supply/demand and cost of production.

Then I would also guess you're OK with denying people who have pre existing conditions?

For insurance? You bet I am OK with it, you can't insure against risk that has already occurred, but we don't have health insurance anymore, what we have is a bastardized health care market and "health care cost shifting" policies, which is why health care is so fucking expensive.

And I bet you also think public schools should be ended and only people who want to and can afford an education should get one. Is that right? An education isn't a right either?

No, education isn't a right unless you can provide it for yourself, it's another "goods and services", I don't understand why this concept is so hard for you to grasp, it's very simple, YOU DON'T HAVE A RIGHT TO SOMEBODY ELSE'S LABOR.

You are defended by the labor of thousands of somebody else's in our military.

You're saying you don't have the right to a national defense?

 

[sealybobo]

I disagree. Remember those pharma companies who overcharged?

Ummm..no, because there is no such thing as "overcharged"; if the ask is too high then you don't have to pay the ask, it's called voluntary exchange and it works just fine as long as you keep third parties (government) out of it. Companies can't charge more than their customers are willing to pay for their products and/or services, otherwise companies don't stay in business and more efficient producers take their place. The only time that equation becomes short-circuited is when you get politicians and bureaucrats involved, then it becomes involuntary exchange and the price mechanism gets distorted to the point where it no longer reflects true supply/demand and cost of production.

Then I would also guess you're OK with denying people who have pre existing conditions?

For insurance? You bet I am OK with it, you can't insure against risk that has already occurred, but we don't have health insurance anymore, what we have is a bastardized health care market and "health care cost shifting" policies, which is why health care is so fucking expensive.

And I bet you also think public schools should be ended and only people who want to and can afford an education should get one. Is that right? An education isn't a right either?

No, education isn't a right unless you can provide it for yourself, it's another "goods and services", I don't understand why this concept is so hard for you to grasp, it's very simple, YOU DON'T HAVE A RIGHT TO SOMEBODY ELSE'S LABOR.

Hey, I don't have kids and my nephews go to the most expensive private school in Michigan. Mitt Romney went to that school. Remember it came out he was a bully back in school? It was at this school. My brother pays $40k a year for private school. He didn't mind paying for public schools but if poor people who depend on public schools didn't show up to vote or voted GOP???

I am all for Defunding public schools. Same with welfare. If you can't afford to educate and feed your child don't have one. We are already overpopulated.

 

[NYcarbineer]

AH ha! We already do make doctors provide services on people who can't pay.

Yeah...and that's exactly when healthcare costs started to spiral out of control. That's what happens ever time the government gets involved in private industry.

Do you want to end that?

Abso-freaking-lutely. We don't demand that Walmart provide free food to starving people, why do we demand that hospitals provide free healthcare to sick people?

Especially considering that a person's inability to pay today is no indication of their ability to pay tomorrow. Put them on a payment plan so they are responsible for their own damn healthcare.

In addition, all of you faux bleeding-heart progressives can create a foundation to cover the healthcare costs of those in need. That is, if you people aren't too greedy and lazy to do so!

Walmart takes food stamps. Hospitals take Medicaid and Medicare patients.

A civilized country should provide at a minimum food, shelter, healthcare, and basic education to all regardless of their ability to pay.

 

[P@triot]

Uh, where on the Right is the enthusiasm for welcoming a gay Muslim immigrant to this country, or for that matter, even being amenable to the idea of having gay Muslims already here?

I'm not arrogant enough to speak for "the right". I can only speak for myself. And I can tell you that I have nothing but contempt and disgust for muslims in general. Yes, there are always exceptions (and this author clearly seems to be one).

But...any religion that teaches "jihad" is unacceptable. Any culture that teaches that women are lower than animals - that they should walk 5 steps behind a man, that they should be rapped, that there should be "honor killings" deserves zero "enthusiasm for welcoming" in my mind.

 

[sealybobo]

Progressives claim to be "open-minded" but over the past decade or so, all evidence to the contrary. That is, until I came across this article from a homosexual muslim immigrant named Riaz Patel. He illustrated a true open-mind. I wonder how many progressives on USMB would even be willing to read what he has to say with an open-mind, much less do what he actually did. What about it sealybobo, candycorn, Slade3200, and jillian? Can you click the link below and read the entire (short) article from a fellow Hillary-supporting progressive with an open-mind?

• There exists a HUGE population in America who are desperately struggling to feed their families.

• They feel their needs are not authentically represented within this huge government.

• They feel their concerns are not being voiced by any major news outlet.

• They are tired of being called “dumb,” “bigoted” and “racist.”

• On my flight back, I realized that for many of us supporting Hillary, this election was about incredibly important social issues. It was a moral election for us. To most of the people I met on my trip, it was about survival. Literally.

• So when I read Facebook/Twitter posts this morning vilifying 50% of the country for being dumb or racist, I remember Nicole, Jim & Paula and I know that’s not true.

What a gay muslim Pakistani-american immigrant learned traveling to Alaska

Uh, where on the Right is the enthusiasm for welcoming a gay Muslim immigrant to this country,

or for that matter, even being amenable to the idea of having gay Muslims already here?

I bet you in exchange for you paying for your own school and hospital bills they'll let the occasional gay Muslim slide. Because that person will also be paying his own way.

This is the way our society is going. Maybe it's a good thing? We are overpopulated and need to shrink the population.

Back when we invented public schools we wanted to encourage births. Perhaps we don't want to continue that?

 

[paulitician]

Some are, but most aren't. Most are dogmatic Authoritarians. If you don't go along with em, you're to be punished. Extremism on both the Left and Right, leads to Fascistic oppression.

If you're forcing your agenda on others by way of Government force, you're a Fascist Authoritarian. Doesn't matter whether you consider yourself Right or Left. The results will be the same.