Are electric cars worse for the environment?

Discussion in 'Environment' started by bear513, May 15, 2018.

  1. bear513
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    bear513 Platinum Member

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    A great spot on Article from politico no less.


    , if electric-vehicle subsidies don’t help the environment, what—or who—do they help? Most electric-vehicle buyers are far wealthier than average Americans. A nationwide survey in 2017 found that 56% had household incomes of at least $100,000 and 17% had household incomes of at least $200,000. (In 2016, median household income for the US as a whole was less than $58,000.) So it’s fair to say the subsidies disproportionately benefit the wealthy at the expense of the poor, who cannot afford to buy even subsidized electric vehicles or live in their own homes to take advantage of residential chargers or solar panels.



    Are electric cars worse for the environment?

    All of this might make sense if electric vehicles, as their supporters claim, were truly likely to reduce air pollution and tackle climate change. But are they?

    To answer that question, I used the U.S. Energy Information Administration’s most recent long-term forecasts for the number of new electric vehicles through 2050, estimated how much electricity they’d use, and then figured out how much pollution that electricity would generate, looking at three key pollutants regulated under the U.S. Clean Air Act—sulfur dioxide (SO2), oxides of nitrogen (NOX), and particulates—as well as CO2 emissions. I compared them to the emissions of new gasoline-powered vehicles, using the EIA’s “real world” miles-per-gallon forecast, rather than the higher CAFE standard values.

    What I found is that widespread adoption of electric vehicles nationwide will likely increase air pollution compared with new internal combustion vehicles. You read that right: more electric cars and trucks will mean more pollution.

    That might sound counterintuitive: After all, won’t replacing a 30-year old, smoke-belching Oldsmobile with a new electric vehicle reduce air pollution? Yes, of course. But that’s also where many electric vehicle proponents’ arguments run off the road: they fail to consider just how clean and efficient new internal combustion vehicles are. The appropriate comparison for evaluating the benefits of all those electric vehicle subsidies and mandates isn’t the difference between an electric vehicle and an old gas-guzzler; it’s the difference between an electric car and a new gas car. And new internal combustion engines are really clean. Today’s vehicles emit only about 1% of the pollution than they did in the 1960s, and new innovations continue to improve those engines’ efficiency and cleanliness.

    And as for that electric car: The energy doesn’t come from nowhere. Cars are charged from the nation’s electrical grid, which means that they’re only as “clean” as America’s mix of power sources. Those are getting cleaner, but we still generate power mainly by burning fossil fuels: natural gas is our biggest source of electricity, and is projected to increase. And coal, while still declining, will remain the second largest source of electricity for some time. (Third is nuclear power, which doesn’t generate emissions but has other byproducts that worry some environmentalists.) Even with large increases in wind and solar generation, the EIA projects that the nation’s electric generating mix will be just 30% renewable by 2030. Based on that forecast, if the EIA’s projected number of electric vehicles were replaced with new internal combustion vehicles, air pollution would actually decrease—and this holds true even if you include the emissions from oil refineries that manufacture gasoline.

    As for states like California with stringent mandates to use more renewable energy for their power grid, they also have the highest electric rates in the continental US, 50% higher than the US average.
     
  2. DarkFury
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    DarkFury President/ USMB

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    California passed a milage tax on electric cars to offset the lost money of a gas tax. and the used batteries carry a hazardous waste tax to get rid of!!
     
  3. bear513
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    bear513 Platinum Member

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    Does everyone pay a milage tax, how does that work?
     
  4. DarkFury
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    DarkFury President/ USMB

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    Just the electric cars. Since they don't pay a gas tax.
     
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  5. DarkFury
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    DarkFury President/ USMB

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    They read the odometer BEFORE they price your tags. I forget the exact formula.
     
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  6. bear513
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    bear513 Platinum Member

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    Wait so this is not a one time tax, but charges by the mile? Do they now have tax stations or something like Illinois have emission test stations ?
     
  7. skookerasbil
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    skookerasbil Gold Member

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    Who cares? Nobody is buying them!:hello77:
     
  8. eagle1462010
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    eagle1462010 Gold Member

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    shhhhhh

    Don't give them any ideas............they will make it mandatory to buy them soon.........

    shhhhhhh
     
  9. bear513
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    bear513 Platinum Member

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    Think and read the link..


    The poor are subsidizing the rich..so they can buy electric cars as a status symbol.
     
  10. Old Rocks
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    What a dumb ass you are, Bear. By 2025, they will be cheaper than comparable ICE cars. For they are much simpler to build. They are also superior in performance. The only thing that makes them expensive now is the battery. However, a sodium battery that is not only cheaper, but also quicker to charge, and stores up to three times as much charge as the present lithium ion batteries is just around the corner. Invented, in part, by the same guy that invented the original lithium ion battery.

    As for the batteries, you think that people will throw away lithium, cobalt, and nickel? Do they throw away lead acid batteries now? That is a lie told by you luddites.

    When the first automobiles were built, they were branded a rich man's toy. The EV's have gone through that phase far more rapidly than the original ICE's. For there are many middle class people buying Leafs and Bolts right now.

    Over 100,000 Tesla S and X's sold in 2017.

    Tesla Q4 2017 Vehicle Production and Deliveries (NASDAQ:TSLA)

    Over 20,000 Bolts sold in 2017.

    Chevy Bolt EV US sales hit new records – reaching over 20,000 units to date

    Over 11,000 Leafs sold in the US in 2017.

    Chevy Bolt EV US sales hit new records – reaching over 20,000 units to date

    This is just the beginning. Most vehicles sold by 2030 in the world will be EVs.
     

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