Are Americans Really Starving?

[Mustang]

You ever see anyone die? Most people either never do or aside from very close terminally ill relatives, they rarely ever do see someone die. That's because death and dying are in essence hidden from view. Why? For a whole host of reasons, not the least of which is that it's an extremely unpleasant experience for the living to watch someone who's dying or close to death. It reminds us of what awaits us all.

With that said, if we accept the premise of your argument, if we don't see it, that must mean that it's not really happening.

I can assure you that there are PLENTY of hungry people in this country who don't get anywhere near the calories they need and want.

Really? Are they like Mr Snuffleupagus who's always around but I never see him because he shows up when my back is turned by leaves before I turn around? Where are these clandestine "hungry people" that apparently I can't see? Where's the skeletonized Auschwitz survivors that supposedly number in the tens of millions but can't be seen anywhere? Can you even show me a picture of a hungry person? Why can't you Leftists admit that hunger in America is just as mythical as your global warming scam?

You seem to automatically equate hunger with starvation. That's not what we're talking about. Most people eat when they're hungry and they eat at least until their hunger is satisfied. Many people keep eating passed that point.

But for others it isn't like that at all. They can be hungry because they don't get enough to eat at one sitting. They can also be hungry because they miss meals simply because they don't have the food or the money to buy the food. Now, can you look at a person who is thin but not emaciated and be able to tell that they're hungry because they haven't eaten in perhaps 18 to 24 hours?

The point is that most people eat about three times a day, not including snacks. If a person is in a situation where they're missing or skipping meals or eating less than what they want and/or need, you might very well never know unless they tell you. Chances are they'll never say a word.

 

[Political Junky]

I'd say.... no.

A reminder, most of the food stamps go to the red states.

 

[Mr. H.]

I'd say.... no.

A reminder, most of the food stamps go to the red states.

Da fuck you say?

 

[Political Junky]

I'd say.... no.

A reminder, most of the food stamps go to the red states.

Da fuck you say?

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

You ever see anyone die? Most people either never do or aside from very close terminally ill relatives, they rarely ever do see someone die. That's because death and dying are in essence hidden from view. Why? For a whole host of reasons, not the least of which is that it's an extremely unpleasant experience for the living to watch someone who's dying or close to death. It reminds us of what awaits us all.

With that said, if we accept the premise of your argument, if we don't see it, that must mean that it's not really happening.

I can assure you that there are PLENTY of hungry people in this country who don't get anywhere near the calories they need and want.

Really? Are they like Mr Snuffleupagus who's always around but I never see him because he shows up when my back is turned by leaves before I turn around? Where are these clandestine "hungry people" that apparently I can't see? Where's the skeletonized Auschwitz survivors that supposedly number in the tens of millions but can't be seen anywhere? Can you even show me a picture of a hungry person? Why can't you Leftists admit that hunger in America is just as mythical as your global warming scam?

You seem to automatically equate hunger with starvation. That's not what we're talking about. Most people eat when they're hungry and they eat at least until their hunger is satisfied. Many people keep eating passed that point.

But for others it isn't like that at all. They can be hungry because they don't get enough to eat at one sitting. They can also be hungry because they miss meals simply because they don't have the food or the money to buy the food. Now, can you look at a person who is thin but not emaciated and be able to tell that they're hungry because they haven't eaten in perhaps 18 to 24 hours?

The point is that most people eat about three times a day, not including snacks. If a person is in a situation where they're missing or skipping meals or eating less than what they want and/or need, you might very well never know unless they tell you. Chances are they'll never say a word.

I miss meals all the time. Some days I only really get one meal because...well..I work full time and have a family of six. Yet somehow I still got a gut. It's clear you're not going to meet my challenge of showing me these hordes of starving people. In a country with food stamps, food banks, churches and charities, and millions of people who, like me, will buy anyone a meal who's hungry, nobody is really going without.

Your Leftist myth has been debunked.

 

[Kondor3]

...Your Leftist myth has been debunked.

Your colossal ignorance and heartlessness, concerning the nature and scope of domestic hunger, and your clue-less state, as to the nature of the hunger-relief network that you decided to criticize without even realizing what you were getting yourself into - are all now on display for all to see, and your original premise has been rightfully dismissed.

Your patron archangel would doubtless chastise you for your ignorance and arrogance, and repudiate your position.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

...Your Leftist myth has been debunked.

Your colossal ignorance and heartlessness, concerning the nature and scope of domestic hunger, and your clue-less state, as to the nature of the hunger-relief network that you decided to criticize without even realizing what you were getting yourself into - are all now on display for all to see, and your original premise has been rightfully dismissed.

Your patron archangel would doubtless chastise you for your ignorance and repudiate your position.

Yet here you are responding on my thread. I've been a supporter of food banks for decades. It doesn't mean I'm ok when SOME of them promote a lie in order to gin up more support. You failed to show me what Americans are going without food, so you lost the argument and all you have left is spite.

You lose. Next time try to have some facts.

 

[HenryBHough]

Are Americans starving?

Only a relatively small number who are unable to force them to choke down the swill Moochelle demands they be fed.

But that's their own fault for not having read about The Donner Party Picnic.

 

[whitehall]

Nobody starves in the greatest Country in the world unless they choose to do so. It wasn't always that way. During the administration the left claims was the greatest in history Americans really did starve to death in ditches and cabins while FDR fat cats watched and organized soup lines for union workers. There isn't a starvation issue today despite the propaganda the anti-American left wing revolutionaries promote. Ads are careful not to use the "S" word. They say that some Americans have hunger issues and "children sometimes go to bed hungry". If you ever had a teenager in the house you know that they are always freaking hungry. It's OK to donate to needy families and support charities but don't expect government programs to be the solution.

 

[Kondor3]

...Yet here you are responding on my thread...

Indeed.

And I do so from the vantage point of a former 'insider'...a former staffer accustomed to dealing in related logistics and demographics and client statistics for the very same hunger-relief organization that you so foolishly chose to lambast - without a clue for what you were talking about.

My own insider experience is 17 years in the past but I stay in touch with present-day food bankers on the management and operations and advocacy levels, and I still stay current with the macro-level demographics, nationwide and regionally.

My own insight into domestic hunger and relief operations exceeds your own by at least a single order of magnitude, if not more.

I fully confess and admit at the onset that I am extremely biased in favor of private and public -level work to alleviate domestic hunger and food-security issues, but I am also entirely capable of serving-up the hard data to reinforce my contributions to this discussion - knowing right where to look, how to interpret the data, and how to articulate the conclusions reached.

...I've been a supporter of food banks for decades...

I don't believe you.

Nobody supportive of food banks could possibly launch (and attempt and fail to sustain) such a vicious attack upon both our impoverished fellow countrymen and the nationwide co-op of folks who dedicate much of their lives to alleviating domestic hunger insofar as it is in their power to help.

But, for the sake of argument, let's pretend that you ARE a food banking supporter, in order to move the conversation along, without getting bogged down in a sideline pissing contest.

...It doesn't mean I'm ok when SOME of them promote a lie in order to gin up more support...

There are no lies being told here.

If you want to deal in data, be specific.

What data, served-up by Feeding America, do you believe to be a lie?

Hard data, please, not soft-and-fuzzy blanket statements invented-by or twisted by you for your own face-saving purposes.

...You failed to show me what Americans are going without food...

No.

You are the challenger.

You are the one trying to convince people that domestic hunger-relief organizations are lying and misrepresenting the issue.

As the challenger, it is incumbent upon you to disprove, to a reasonable extent, the conclusions reached by a multitude of government and private studies.

I suggested to you that you get off your ass and do your own research online; mentioning that copious study results could be found online, easily, from a myriad of sources.

But, given your laziness, and, with a nod to the need to serve up a study NOT funded by the Feeding America organization itself, here is one by the Federal government; in this case, the USDA, for the most recently fully completed calendar year, 2013; well, the PDF-format Cliff's Notes Summary, anyway, which is about the most anybody here would possibly expect you to examine. Pay special attention to the 'food security' stats, and be aware that there are plenty more where that came from.

http://www.ers.usda.gov/media/1565410/err173_summary.pdf

...so you lost the argument..

Hardly. Hell, I haven't even BEGUN to drag you up and down the basketball court on this one yet, Sparky.

...and all you have left is spite...

You mistake disdain for reverse activism based on complete and utter ignorance of the subject matter, for spite.

...You lose...

I have not yet begun to fight.

...Next time try to have some facts.

How about some facts THIS time (above, as a teeny-tiny down-payment on what I can glean and serve-up on very short notice), rather than procrastinating?

Any other brilliant observations to share with the class, as I prepare to engage in-earnest, as a near-subject-matter-expert (SME)?

You picked the wrong topic, on the wrong day, going up against the wrong audience member.

This ought to be fun, if you insist on pushing it.

Feel free.

 

[bravoactual]

Mostly this myth is pushed by feedingamerica.org a group that, like any global warming "cause" solicits funding by getting people to believe a myth.

You've seen the billboards, heard the radio ads, and seen it on television, this myth that 40 million Americans are going hungry, that millions of children are hungry. And the figures used roughly assimilate to the food stamp and school lunch program rolls, as if anyone who's on food stamps or any child eating a federally subsidized school lunch is starving.

The last time we ever had a genuine problem with starvation is when there was a rash of food shortages affecting the people of the Appalachian Mountains, a problem that was quickly rectified over 20 years ago. It's not like starvation can't happen, it's that in this land of largess and abundance, it's exceptionally rare, nigh to being a non existent issue.

So why is this lie so successful? Could it be because Gruber is right, the American public truly is stupid and prone to believe anything?

There are over 5,000,000 Children who go to bed hungry every night....your all about the Right Life Right?

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

I don't believe you.

Then we're done. You don't know me any more than I know you. You failed to show me the 40 million Americans you claim are starving and all your bluster doesn't conceal the fact you have nothing to back up the lies you tell to raise funds.

I was a supporter of food banks long before they began telling lies. I don't give a triple flying fuck if you believe that or not. I stopped supporting them when they started lying, approximately 2 years ago, and you certainly confirm that my decision was right.

You're just a liar that's unable to prove his lies, just like all Leftists.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

There are over 5,000,000 Children who go to bed hungry every night....your all about the Right Life Right?

The Left needs people like you.

 

[Mustang]

You ever see anyone die? Most people either never do or aside from very close terminally ill relatives, they rarely ever do see someone die. That's because death and dying are in essence hidden from view. Why? For a whole host of reasons, not the least of which is that it's an extremely unpleasant experience for the living to watch someone who's dying or close to death. It reminds us of what awaits us all.

With that said, if we accept the premise of your argument, if we don't see it, that must mean that it's not really happening.

I can assure you that there are PLENTY of hungry people in this country who don't get anywhere near the calories they need and want.

Really? Are they like Mr Snuffleupagus who's always around but I never see him because he shows up when my back is turned by leaves before I turn around? Where are these clandestine "hungry people" that apparently I can't see? Where's the skeletonized Auschwitz survivors that supposedly number in the tens of millions but can't be seen anywhere? Can you even show me a picture of a hungry person? Why can't you Leftists admit that hunger in America is just as mythical as your global warming scam?

You seem to automatically equate hunger with starvation. That's not what we're talking about. Most people eat when they're hungry and they eat at least until their hunger is satisfied. Many people keep eating passed that point.

But for others it isn't like that at all. They can be hungry because they don't get enough to eat at one sitting. They can also be hungry because they miss meals simply because they don't have the food or the money to buy the food. Now, can you look at a person who is thin but not emaciated and be able to tell that they're hungry because they haven't eaten in perhaps 18 to 24 hours?

The point is that most people eat about three times a day, not including snacks. If a person is in a situation where they're missing or skipping meals or eating less than what they want and/or need, you might very well never know unless they tell you. Chances are they'll never say a word.

I miss meals all the time. Some days I only really get one meal because...well..I work full time and have a family of six. Yet somehow I still got a gut. It's clear you're not going to meet my challenge of showing me these hordes of starving people. In a country with food stamps, food banks, churches and charities, and millions of people who, like me, will buy anyone a meal who's hungry, nobody is really going without.

Your Leftist myth has been debunked.

Unless you're morbidly obese, you're not doing yourself any favors as far as your health is concerned by skipping meals. There's nothing particularly manly or noble about skipping a meal if you don't have to anymore than it's manly to refrain from drinking water in the heat. The fact of the matter is that being dehydrated puts a greater strain on your kidneys and thickens your blood making you more susceptible to heart attacks or strokes. Missing meals can have similar health consequences when your system does not have the necessary readily available nutrients to perform physical and mental tasks. It can also lead to a loss of consciousness which is dangerous in many work environments.

Regardless, there's a world of difference between choosing to skip meals for whatever reason (including being on a diet to lose weight) and not eating because you simply don't have the food or the money to buy it. Involuntarily being hungry is not a pleasant experience for the people who are enduring it.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Unless you're morbidly obese, you're not doing yourself any favors as far as your health is concerned by skipping meals. There's nothing particularly manly or noble about skipping a meal if you don't have to anymore than it's manly to refrain from drinking water in the heat. The fact of the matter is that being dehydrated puts a greater strain on your kidneys and thickens your blood making you more susceptible to heart attacks or strokes. Missing meals can have similar health consequences when your system does not have the necessary readily available nutrients to perform physical and mental tasks. It can also lead to a loss of consciousness which is dangerous in many work environments.

You're clearly not a parent. I don't skip meals to be "manly", I miss them because my wife and I run a circus. A parent wouldn't have said what you just said.

 

[Kondor3]

...showing me these hordes of starving people. In a country with food stamps, food banks, churches and charities...

Nobody involved in the domestic hunger niche is claiming that we have hordes of starving people; merely hungry ones, whose households oftentimes face food insecurity.

As to a country with ...food banks, churches and charities... my first in this series described for you exactly how those (community-level) food banks, churches and charities obtain a very sizable percentage of their foodstuffs, and how they can afford to do so at vastly discounted prices for their food supplies.

The nationwide co-op of regional food banks (i.e. Feeding America) is where a great deal of that food comes from, for your precious (community-level) food banks, churches and charities.

Clear enough for you?

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

...showing me these hordes of starving people. In a country with food stamps, food banks, churches and charities...

Nobody involved in the domestic hunger niche is claiming that we have hordes of starving people; merely hungry ones, whose households oftentimes face food insecurity.

As to a country with ...food banks, churches and charities... my first in this series described for you exactly how those (community-level) food banks, churches and charities obtain a very sizable percentage of their foodstuffs, and how they can afford to do so at vastly discounted prices for their food supplies.

The nationwide co-op of regional food banks (i.e. Feeding America) is where a great deal of that food comes from, for your precious (community-level) food banks, churches and charities.

Clear enough for you?

Wrong. Food banks take sizable donations from food manufacturers and retailers and depend on donations from kind hearted Americans to cover distribution costs.

Capitalism feeds the poor, not Leftism.

 

[Kondor3]

...Wrong. Food banks take sizable donations from food manufacturers and retailers and depend on donations from kind hearted Americans to cover distribution costs...

Wrong? What, specifically, do you find to be wrong? I'm quite curious.

...Capitalism feeds the poor, not Leftism.

So, who is disputing this?

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

...Wrong. Food banks take sizable donations from food manufacturers and retailers and depend on donations from kind hearted Americans to cover distribution costs...

Wrong? What, specifically, do you find to be wrong? I'm quite curious.
The lies. I thought that was clear.

...Capitalism feeds the poor, not Leftism.

So, who is disputing this?

It seems something that goes over your Leftist head. Compassion for the needy is best achieved by the free market, not government.

 

[Kondor3]

I don't believe you.

Then we're done...

Yes. Suddenly faced with someone with Insider Knowledge, that reveals as a near-SME, in your place, I, too, might be tempted to find an excuse disengage.

And your sudden faux offense-taking - when someone says "I don't believe you" - after you did worse, by calling others "liars", is downright hilarious.

...You don't know me any more than I know you...

You DO have a talent for restating the obvious.

...You failed to show me the 40 million Americans you claim are starving...

I have claimed that 40 million Americans are starving?

Where?

Link, please.

...and all your bluster doesn't conceal the fact you have nothing to back up the lies you tell to raise funds...

What lies?

...I was a supporter of food banks long before they began telling lies...

What food bank(s) are telling lies?

What lies are those?

Link, please.

...I don't give a triple flying fuck if you believe that or not...

As I suggested earlier, we can say, for argument's sake, that you are telling the truth, so that we do not become needlessly mired-down in a sideshow pissing contest.

...I stopped supporting them when they started lying, approximately 2 years ago...

Data, please.

What lies?

What is different about 3 years ago, versus 2 years ago?

Domestic hunger studies and publications on the national and regional and local levels exist stretching back for most of the past 20 years or more.

These will still be available for easy lookup online, for you to retrieve, or to point others to, in order to reinforce your claims that food banks started lying, 2 years ago.

Which food bank(s) did you have in mind?

What lies are they telling?

What differs in their Annual Reports and Annual Fundraising Drives, for the past two years, that did not exist three or four years ago, when they still enjoyed your support?

...and you certainly confirm that my decision was right...

It will be a little difficult to confirm that your decision to stop supporting food banks was correct, if you will not disclose to the audience, which food bank(s) you have in mind, and which lie(s) that you have in mind - differences between 3 or 4 years ago, and the past couple of years - would it not?

You may certainly remedy that - by disclosing which food bank(s) and which lie(s) [with a 2-3 year focus, right? - for comparison] that we need to examine, to explore the correctness and veracity of your claim(s).

...You're just a liar that's unable to prove his lies, just like all Leftists.

1. I am about as much of a Leftist as Attila the Hun - ask any of the TRUE Leftists around here who have me pegged as a Right Wing Uber-Asshole.

2. I have told no lies - or, at least, you have, so far, failed to identify which lie(s) - or at least positions or declarations - whose veracity need to be explored.

3. I have - so far -proven everything that I have claimed, when challenged in a lucid fashion, and I look forward to more challenges from you, assuming that you're able.