America was FOUNDED on secession

[JakeStarkey]

Address the issue. Why is it ok for the original 13 colonies to secede from England but wrong for say, Florida or Wisconsin to secede from the USA.?

1. They were colonies, not part of Great Britain itself like Wales or Scotland.

2. They won.

Winning and losing is irrelevant. Either the right to secede exists, or it doesn't. If it was wrong for the Confederates it was wrong for the Colonies.

False analogy.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

1. They were colonies, not part of Great Britain itself like Wales or Scotland.

2. They won.

Winning and losing is irrelevant. Either the right to secede exists, or it doesn't. If it was wrong for the Confederates it was wrong for the Colonies.

The "right" to secede always goes to the winners. It's a clear and simple fact.

Then you're essentially saying that there is no actual right to secede, which means that, while they won the war, the Colonies had absolutely no right to secede and King George had every right to attempt to bring them to heel.

 

[JakeStarkey]

In an end justifies the means world, KK, yup.

If the British had won, GW and BF and JA and SH at least would have hung if they had been captured.

 

[bodecea]

Winning and losing is irrelevant. Either the right to secede exists, or it doesn't. If it was wrong for the Confederates it was wrong for the Colonies.

The "right" to secede always goes to the winners. It's a clear and simple fact.

Then you're essentially saying that there is no actual right to secede, which means that, while they won the war, the Colonies had absolutely no right to secede and King George had every right to attempt to bring them to heel.

That is correct. There is no actual right to secede. There is no actual right to stop secession either. It's all in who is the stronger to get what they want.

Now...when you refer to rights...that's an individual thing. People can secede whenever they want...it's called "leaving".

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

In an end justifies the means world, KK, yup.

If the British had won, GW and BF and JA and SH at least would have hung if they had been captured.

That says nothing about whether they had the right to do what they did, however. You can win a war and be wrong, just as you can lose a war and be right.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

The "right" to secede always goes to the winners. It's a clear and simple fact.

Then you're essentially saying that there is no actual right to secede, which means that, while they won the war, the Colonies had absolutely no right to secede and King George had every right to attempt to bring them to heel.

That is correct. There is no actual right to secede. There is no actual right to stop secession either. It's all in who is the stronger to get what they want.

Now...when you refer to rights...that's an individual thing. People can secede whenever they want...it's called "leaving".

That a person has to leave to "secede" assumes that the state owns them and their property in the first place, which is ridiculous.

 

[bripat9643]

It's not nonsense, it's the reality, any state that even attempted such a folly would be declared a martial law area and the leaders arrested and imprisoned.

Address the issue. Why was it ok for the original 13 colonies to secede from England but wrong for say, Florida or Wisconsin to secede from the USA.?

There is a significant difference between a colony gaining independence from a distant motherland and a bunch of confederate assholes trying to steal a chunk of US territory and separate the people who live there from equal protection under the US constitution.

How can you "steal" territory that's within your own borders? The federal government doesn't own the states, dipshit. The states formed the federal government, so how can the former own the later?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

With so many states refusing to implement Obamacare and talking of secession, it's important to remember that the original 13 colonies seceded from England. Liberals say secession is treason but that's nonsense.

Whether it’s ‘treason’ or not is irrelevant, as it is un-Constitutional. See: Texas v. White

Once a state enters the Union, it can never leave.

With so many states refusing to implement Obamacare and talking of secession, it's important to remember that the original 13 colonies seceded from England. Liberals say secession is treason but that's nonsense.

The Articles of Confederation established perpetual union.

Correct. And that was reinforced by the Constitution’s mission to ‘create a more perfect Union.’ The ordinances of secession were un-Constitutional, no state ‘seceded,’ the ‘Confederacy’ never existed.

 

[JakeStarkey]

John C. Calhoun died a long time ago, bripat, and so did his philosophy.

Only God can resurrect the dead and their beliefs, not you mongers from the extremist right.

 

[bripat9643]

Second, the Supreme Court Decided the Issue of Succession after the Civil war, and they did not come down in Favor of it.

Yep. Unilateral secession was illegal (and this of course was in 1869, in Texas v White). If it had gone before the bloodiest war in American history was fought, it might have come out differently.

A gang of Lincoln appointed hacks decided Texas v White, and it's the most obviously flawed and badly reasoned decision in the entire history of bad Supreme Court decisions. One of the gems of logic from this decision says that the states can never leave the Union. Yet, after the war they had to ask for permission to be readmitted to the union. Most of the confederate states had no representation in Congress at the time.

Secession was still possible, but required assent of Congress.

Where does the Constitution say that?

Basically there concept is one state can not just vote to leave the Union, leaving their Debt Obligations and taking resources that belong to the Nation not the State.

Just so.

The logic of bootlicking servile morons.

 

[bripat9643]

John C. Calhoun died a long time ago, bripat, and so did his philosophy.

Abraham Lincoln also died a long time ago. His philosophy is alive and well in the mind of every dictator on the planet.

Only God can resurrect the dead and their beliefs, not you mongers from the extremist right.

Sorry, you stupid turd, but ideas live forever.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Address the issue. Why was it ok for the original 13 colonies to secede from England but wrong for say, Florida or Wisconsin to secede from the USA.?

There is a significant difference between a colony gaining independence from a distant motherland and a bunch of confederate assholes trying to steal a chunk of US territory and separate the people who live there from equal protection under the US constitution.

How can you "steal" territory that's within your own borders? The federal government doesn't own the states, dipshit. The states formed the federal government, so how can the former own the later?

As you can see per Texas v. White (1869) above, your post is ignorant idiocy.

 

[JakeStarkey]

bripat's mind is full of holes. Texas v. White is the end of bripat's argument. Move on, little bripat, nothing to see here.

 

[bripat9643]

With so many states refusing to implement Obamacare and talking of secession, it's important to remember that the original 13 colonies seceded from England. Liberals say secession is treason but that's nonsense.

The Articles of Confederation established perpetual union.

If that's the case, then how did the Founding Fathers throw them in the trash can when they adopted the Constitution?

 

[bripat9643]

With so many states refusing to implement Obamacare and talking of secession, it's important to remember that the original 13 colonies seceded from England. Liberals say secession is treason but that's nonsense.

America was founded because we seceded... but that does NOT mean we have a tradition of being accepting of secession. Especially not from ourselves.

In seceding, you will be taking our land, you will be taking our people, you will be taking our resources. We will fight to get it back.

And we will win.

It isn't your land, dipshit, and you certainly don't own the people.

 

[bodecea]

Then you're essentially saying that there is no actual right to secede, which means that, while they won the war, the Colonies had absolutely no right to secede and King George had every right to attempt to bring them to heel.

That is correct. There is no actual right to secede. There is no actual right to stop secession either. It's all in who is the stronger to get what they want.

Now...when you refer to rights...that's an individual thing. People can secede whenever they want...it's called "leaving".

That a person has to leave to "secede" assumes that the state owns them and their property in the first place, which is ridiculous.

Nope. Now you move the goalposts...talking as if a state owns a person. Not at all...that's why they have the right to secede, to give up their citizenship, to leave.

 

[candycorn]

Can't wait to see what you clowns come up with in November when Obama wins.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

Scalia is very conservative, even he disagrees:

If there was any constitutional issue resolved by the Civil War, it is that there is no right to secede. ]

Resolved by guns not logic.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I think Romney will win, but the leadership is going to make sure the Kenyan The Great Gasbag and Burly Bripat and the Surly Surrogates will have little to do about anything other than bitch.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

The Civil War cost 600,000 Americans their life and the OP thinks Nullification or Secession is a good idea.

.

The problem was not secession. Back then most people accepted states had the right to secede. The cause of the CW was lincoln's refusal to allow the secession.