America was FOUNDED on secession

[MuadDib]

Lincoln didn't start the civil war, and it was over slavery, specifically the question of slavery in the western states.

Lincoln was a racist who wanted to send blacks back to Africa.

American Colonization Society - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[MuadDib]

To say Lincoln started the war to free the slaves is absurd.

To say slavery wasn't the major dividing issue that led to the war is also absurd.

I guess that's why Lincoln said in his First Inaugura Address:

"I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so. Those who nominated and elected me did so with full knowledge that I had made this and many similar declarations and had never recanted them..."

Oh, wait!

Yeah, because Lincoln's inaugural address can somehow nullify the first 85 years of our nation's history.

Are you really a dumbass or is it just an act for USMB?

 

[ShootSpeeders]

[
Lincoln didn't start the civil war, and it was over slavery, specifically the question of slavery in the western states.

BS. Yes, slavery was a big issue at the time, but it was not what the CW was about. Like all wars it was mainly about profiteering and to a lesser extent about the south being fed up with the high-handedness of the north on so many issues such as tariffs.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

I guess that's why Lincoln said in his First Inaugura Address:

"I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so. Those who nominated and elected me did so with full knowledge that I had made this and many similar declarations and had never recanted them..."

Oh, wait!

Yeah, because Lincoln's inaugural address can somehow nullify the first 85 years of our nation's history.

Are you really a dumbass or is it just an act for USMB?

Oh, sorry, my bad, its just a coincidence that most slave states were in the Confederacy and zero free states were.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

Lincoln was a racist who wanted to send blacks back to Africa.

American Colonization Society - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/QUOTE]

I recently read a book about LIberia and the American Colonization Society and was surprised to learn that the ACS existed as late as 1964 when it finally disbanded.

 

[conservationism]

Lincoln didn't start the civil war, and it was over slavery, specifically the question of slavery in the western states.

Lincoln was a racist who wanted to send blacks back to Africa.

non sequitur.

Maybe not

I guess that's why Lincoln said in his First Inaugura Address:

"I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so. Those who nominated and elected me did so with full knowledge that I had made this and many similar declarations and had never recanted them..."

Lincoln fought the war to keep the union together because he did not see slavery as the most important issue, or give a fig about the black slaves.

 

[occupied]

[
Lincoln didn't start the civil war, and it was over slavery, specifically the question of slavery in the western states.

BS. Yes, slavery was a big issue at the time, but it was not what the CW was about. Like all wars it was mainly about profiteering and to a lesser extent about the south being fed up with the high-handedness of the north on so many issues such as tariffs.

The tariff argument was launched in the beginning and didn't wash then, the south had some grand expansionist plans for the west, Mexico and central America that the north did not want a part of, this is the source of the conflict. The south wanted to establish colonies to send their white trash to and sell them the excess slaves they were growing increasingly worried about. But the north did not allow them to spread slavery and the slave trade beyond where it currently was in force. What's a southern gentleman to do? They could not allow themselves to become outnumbered by their slaves and white trash hillbillies and expect to keep power.

 

[tererun]

Most of the states talking about leaving are also the ones who take the most in federal tax assistance and cannot survive without the bigger states tax money.

really, where would those states be without the benefit of the US dollar in foreign relations? At best they would be in the same heap of shit that third world nations are in because no one is going to rely on their stability for whatever monetary system they come up with. How are they even going to afford the foreign resources they would need to fight a war with the US?

Then who is going to protect them from places like china, russia, or even mexico if they border it?

this failed back in the civil war when the world was not as dependent on foreign goods as it is now. How could it possibly even work today when as soon as you got out from the US umbrella you can't get anyone to trade with you, and there is no way the UN is going to back you as a nation to force people to deal with you. You would be in a bigger pile of shit than palestine and facing a much bigger enemy.

 

[conservationism]

There's nothing wrong with a good secession now and again. But if American states start leaving, the US isn't going to be a world power anymore.

Texas Secede!

 

[MuadDib]

Yeah, because Lincoln's inaugural address can somehow nullify the first 85 years of our nation's history.

Are you really a dumbass or is it just an act for USMB?

Oh, sorry, my bad, its just a coincidence that most slave states were in the Confederacy and zero free states were.

Yeah, but when the war started, the Union had 4 states and the Federal capitol with slavery, but the Federal capitol abolished it, and they added a fifth state with slavery.

 

[MuadDib]

[
Lincoln didn't start the civil war, and it was over slavery, specifically the question of slavery in the western states.

BS. Yes, slavery was a big issue at the time, but it was not what the CW was about. Like all wars it was mainly about profiteering and to a lesser extent about the south being fed up with the high-handedness of the north on so many issues such as tariffs.

The tariff argument was launched in the beginning and didn't wash then, the south had some grand expansionist plans for the west, Mexico and central America that the north did not want a part of, this is the source of the conflict. The south wanted to establish colonies to send their white trash to and sell them the excess slaves they were growing increasingly worried about. But the north did not allow them to spread slavery and the slave trade beyond where it currently was in force. What's a southern gentleman to do? They could not allow themselves to become outnumbered by their slaves and white trash hillbillies and expect to keep power.

The tariff issue certainly did wash.

Panic of 1857 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Morrill Tariff - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Are you really a dumbass or is it just an act for USMB?

Oh, sorry, my bad, its just a coincidence that most slave states were in the Confederacy and zero free states were.

Yeah, but when the war started, the Union had 4 states and the Federal capitol with slavery, but the Federal capitol abolished it, and they added a fifth state with slavery.

Wow! So that MUST mean the war had NOTHING to do with slavery! Makes so much sense! Hmmm mmmm. ueahj, I'm gonna goty snort more tnow

 

[MuadDib]

Most of the states talking about leaving are also the ones who take the most in federal tax assistance and cannot survive without the bigger states tax money.

really, where would those states be without the benefit of the US dollar in foreign relations? At best they would be in the same heap of shit that third world nations are in because no one is going to rely on their stability for whatever monetary system they come up with. How are they even going to afford the foreign resources they would need to fight a war with the US?

Then who is going to protect them from places like china, russia, or even mexico if they border it?

this failed back in the civil war when the world was not as dependent on foreign goods as it is now. How could it possibly even work today when as soon as you got out from the US umbrella you can't get anyone to trade with you, and there is no way the UN is going to back you as a nation to force people to deal with you. You would be in a bigger pile of shit than palestine and facing a much bigger enemy.

You might want to reconsider that position. Russia and China are not threatening an invasion, but Mexico is invading the Southern states on a daily basis and the Federal government refuses to secure the border.

California is almost bankrupt, Detroit is almost bankrupt and turning entire neighborhoods back to pasture, there is no steel industry in Pittsburg, but auto makers, Boeing, and Airbus are building factories in the South.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Mexico is invading the Southern states on a daily basis and the Federal government refuses to secure the border

The federal government has done nothing but pump more and more and more money and agents to the border - and not once has it reduced the flow of Mexicans across into the U.S. Mexicans laugh at every attempt. If we build a 100 foot fence they'll build a 101 foot ladder. If we electrify the fence, they'll dig under it. If we post a man every 20 feet along the entire border - they'll find out which one of them is ripe for bribery and corruption, or simply go around the land border on surfboards, or they'll fly over, under the radar in small planes, or hide themselves in shipping crates. So long as business in the U.S. is willing to employ illegal aliens, they will find a way to get here, no matter what.

 

[MuadDib]

Mexico is invading the Southern states on a daily basis and the Federal government refuses to secure the border

The federal government has done nothing but pump more and more and more money and agents to the border - and not once has it reduced the flow of Mexicans across into the U.S. Mexicans laugh at every attempt. If we build a 100 foot fence they'll build a 101 foot ladder. If we electrify the fence, they'll dig under it. If we post a man every 20 feet along the entire border - they'll find out which one of them is ripe for bribery and corruption, or simply go around the land border on surfboards, or they'll fly over, under the radar in small planes, or hide themselves in shipping crates. So long as business in the U.S. is willing to employ illegal aliens, they will find a way to get here, no matter what.

So ask your Messiah to do something to stop it.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Mexico is invading the Southern states on a daily basis and the Federal government refuses to secure the border

The federal government has done nothing but pump more and more and more money and agents to the border - and not once has it reduced the flow of Mexicans across into the U.S. Mexicans laugh at every attempt. If we build a 100 foot fence they'll build a 101 foot ladder. If we electrify the fence, they'll dig under it. If we post a man every 20 feet along the entire border - they'll find out which one of them is ripe for bribery and corruption, or simply go around the land border on surfboards, or they'll fly over, under the radar in small planes, or hide themselves in shipping crates. So long as business in the U.S. is willing to employ illegal aliens, they will find a way to get here, no matter what.

So ask your Messiah to do something to stop it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/us/politics/30raid.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1

“We have steadily increased our efforts to investigate and prosecute employers who violate the law on a serious and grand scale,” said John Morton, the director of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, also known as ICE.

....

Last year, according to government figures, the enforcement agency started 2,746 workplace investigations in addition to the audits, more than double the number in 2008, the last full year of the Bush administration. Fines totaling about $43 million, also a record, were levied on companies in immigration cases.

 

[MuadDib]

The federal government has done nothing but pump more and more and more money and agents to the border - and not once has it reduced the flow of Mexicans across into the U.S. Mexicans laugh at every attempt. If we build a 100 foot fence they'll build a 101 foot ladder. If we electrify the fence, they'll dig under it. If we post a man every 20 feet along the entire border - they'll find out which one of them is ripe for bribery and corruption, or simply go around the land border on surfboards, or they'll fly over, under the radar in small planes, or hide themselves in shipping crates. So long as business in the U.S. is willing to employ illegal aliens, they will find a way to get here, no matter what.

So ask your Messiah to do something to stop it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/us/politics/30raid.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1

“We have steadily increased our efforts to investigate and prosecute employers who violate the law on a serious and grand scale,” said John Morton, the director of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, also known as ICE.

....

Last year, according to government figures, the enforcement agency started 2,746 workplace investigations in addition to the audits, more than double the number in 2008, the last full year of the Bush administration. Fines totaling about $43 million, also a record, were levied on companies in immigration cases.

Yeah, they're tracking gun sales to Mexico too.

 

[editec]

With so many states refusing to implement Obamacare and talking of secession, it's important to remember that the original 13 colonies seceded from England. Liberals say secession is treason but that's nonsense.

Liberals say that?

Seems to me the Republicans said that rather loudly in 1861.

You need to read your US history, Lad.

You are clearly a very confused citizen.

 

[MuadDib]

With so many states refusing to implement Obamacare and talking of secession, it's important to remember that the original 13 colonies seceded from England. Liberals say secession is treason but that's nonsense.

Liberals say that?

Seems to me the Republicans said that rather loudly in 1861.

You need to read your US history, Lad.

You are clearly a very confused citizen.

No he's not confused. He's right. The Republicans were the Liberals and Progressives at that time. They were also allied with the European socialists of the failed Revolution of 1848. Those socialists were well entrenched in the Republican Party and the Union army.

The Democrats at the time of the war were the Conservatives. They were taken over by socialism and progressivism by the early 20th century.

The 2 parties flipped by the 1960's when the Reps switched to Conservatism and the Dems became the Libs.

Now you know why you have an element of socialism either way.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Southern White Conservatives are now attempting to blame the Democratic party for starting the KKK?

Fuck the Confederacy and all it ever stood for.

some things deserve repeating...