America needs to revisit Her beginnings

[Smartt33]

Why is there such a battle to separate the birth of America from the Principles upon which she was born?

Is there such a fear of good and right that people cannot function with them around?

Does truth, good morals, and goodness somehow interfere with the new American way?

Why can we not allow the words of our founding fathers to be told?

What is so bad about good?

I am not talking about religion. I am not talking about Christianity. I am not even talking about the Bible totally. I am talking about clean and moral principles. I believe all of the good things that this nation stood for in her birth can be found in the Bible, indeed, I believe they are Biblical principles. However, many people are hindered in their lifestyles by good and moral principles, no matter where they came from.

I believe it is about selfishness, greed and pleasures, no matter the cost. I believe America is driven by these three things, and whatever apposes them is “wrong.”

Jefferson did say that the Bible is the cornerstone of our liberty. Oh, that is not a quote, it is a paraphrase. Patrick Henry believed America was founded on the Gospel of Christ. Jefferson did believe that it is the God of creation is the one who makes us equal. Jefferson said, “Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.”

The preambles to most of the States in America have a direct comment about our connection to God. It is the people who our government is to represent, and not to control. The representatives are supposed to be listening to the people.

John Adams, and John Hancock said that there is no Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus.

John Adams said,
“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.” He also said that Independence say was a day of deliverance brought on by genuine acts of devotion to God almighty.

I believe Christians need to get back to the basics, and move back into that close relationship with Almighty God where they were when America began. (II Chronicles 7:14)

The Constitution cannot possibly stand if our country is given over to immorality and the evilness that she is facing right now. Just as the Bible says that the law was written for the righteous people, because it will protect them, John Adams said, “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

Government is not secular or religious, government is a servant to the people. The people of America when she was born were a religious people, given to the principles of the Scriptures. Government has no business interfering with what the people want. Currently the government seems to not understand that.

Yes, all religions are free in America, as it should be. None will be the chosen religion in America. None can demand anything of the other. Secular living is also a freedom in America. We must do well to hold high standards, and clearly our founders knew that the Principles of the Bible were the greatest measure of high standards. Fools may try to point out some events in the Bible that seem to be immoral, but the overriding principles in the Bible are clear, and no man can be without excuse.

America needs to return to the founders’ understanding of what sustains a strong nation. That would be a pure devotion to the God who created us.

"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-Thomas Jefferson

 

[Mad Scientist]

Inb4 someone posts: "Americas founders were white, racist slave owners".

 

[Smartt33]

Inb4 someone posts: "Americas founders were white, racist slave owners".

They were white, and some were slave owners.

You cannot say they were racists just because they owned the slaves. You have to prove they were racists.

However, none of what you said responds to what I said.

 

[Madeline]

The fact of owning slaves proves racism beyond a shadow of a doubt.

What exactly are you bitching about, Smart? Exactly what changes in our culture do you perceive to be deviations from our founding principles?

 

[Smartt33]

The fact of owning slaves proves racism beyond a shadow of a doubt.

What exactly are you bitching about, Smart? Exactly what changes in our culture do you perceive to be deviations from our founding principles?

Actually that is not true. Many slave owners were not interest in slavery, but business. They were good to the people who worked for them. They took care of them.

And what about the blacks who owned slaves. Were they racists? According to your reasoning they were.

Back to the other issue, only about 1/3 of the Founding Fathers owned slaves. Many of those were good to their slaves, and made a good life for them.

As to your last question, you must be kidding. If I have to answer that you live in a bubble, and I doubt my words would get through to you.

 

[Madeline]

No, I am not kidding. What specifically are you concerned about?

These amorphous threads that we have wandered away from some supposed nirvana of US society strike me as just so much bullshit...I am curious to see what aspect of our common life you find so objectionable.

 

[Smartt33]

No, I am not kidding. What specifically are you concerned about?

These amorphous threads that we have wandered away from some supposed nirvana of US society strike me as just so much bullshit...I am curious to see what aspect of our common life you find so objectionable.

There are many, however I will organize them so they apply to what the founders wrote, and likely intended.

The following is a sample:

Bibles used to be a text for schools, now they are not allowed to be in some school libraries, and certainly not taught in the schools.

Government applied their faith to their jobs in the birthing of this nation. Now Government application of theit faith is "unconstitutional." How is that?

Giddeons used to hand out Bibles to the schools, now they are not allowed. However, schools freely hand our dondoms, even without caring what the parents think about it.

Chewing gum and throwing spitballs was the worst behaviors in schools not so long ago. Those have been replaced with bullying, murders, and rape.

Punishment was used , and now the better way is to pat the child on the back and say, "I'd rather you wouldn't do that in class."

Children, even adults could pray in schools, now it is politically incorrect to do so, and there are unwritten and impolied threats if you do.

that is the short list. These are the kinder things, and mostly about schools. There is more.

 

[Madeline]

Smartt33 wrote:

There are many, however I will organize them so they apply to what the founders wrote, and likely intended.

The following is a sample:

Bibles used to be a text for schools, now they are not allowed to be in some school libraries, and certainly not taught in the schools.

Bible classes are not held in public schools because that would be unconstitutional.

Government applied their faith to their jobs in the birthing of this nation. Now


Government application of theit faith is "unconstitutional." How is that?

What do you mean "application of their faith"?

Giddeons used to hand out Bibles to the schools, now they are not allowed. However, schools freely hand our dondoms, even without caring what the parents think about it.

When did Gideons hand out bibles to public school children? I have never heard of such a thing. And no one thinks handing out condoms to school children is without problems of its own, or is in some way related to religion. In any event, neither of these things happened when the nation was first formed...I fail to see any connection to "the intent of the founders".

Chewing gum and throwing spitballs was the worst behaviors in schools not so long ago. Those have been replaced with bullying, murders, and rape.

Well, I dun know about murder but yes, public schools are more dangerous now. I think most adults are very concerned by this, and if you have any solutions, please share.

Punishment was used , and now the better way is to pat the child on the back and say, "I'd rather you wouldn't do that in class."

I presume you mean corporal punishment was used in public schools. Mebbe so, but not in my lifetime. Again, what does this have to do with the intent of the founders or religion?

Children, even adults could pray in schools, now it is politically incorrect to do so, and there are unwritten and impolied threats if you do.

No one threatens anyone for praying in school. It is the law of this country that no religion can be taught in a public school...based upon the intent of the Founders. Quite a bit of public money is used to help those who wish to send their kids to private, religious schools to do so. Is there more you feel needs to be done? If so, what?


that is the short list. These are the kinder things, and mostly about schools. There is more.
__________________

So far, what I gather is that you believe in a past that never existed and based on this false belief, you think the US is going to hell in a handbasket. And that it is mostly the fault of public schools......time for someone to do a bit of remedial reading, methinks.

 

[rikules]

No, I am not kidding. What specifically are you concerned about?

These amorphous threads that we have wandered away from some supposed nirvana of US society strike me as just so much bullshit...I am curious to see what aspect of our common life you find so objectionable.

There are many, however I will organize them so they apply to what the founders wrote, and likely intended.

The following is a sample:

Bibles used to be a text for schools, now they are not allowed to be in some school libraries, and certainly not taught in the schools.

Government applied their faith to their jobs in the birthing of this nation. Now Government application of theit faith is "unconstitutional." How is that?

Giddeons used to hand out Bibles to the schools, now they are not allowed. However, schools freely hand our dondoms, even without caring what the parents think about it.

Chewing gum and throwing spitballs was the worst behaviors in schools not so long ago. Those have been replaced with bullying, murders, and rape.

Punishment was used , and now the better way is to pat the child on the back and say, "I'd rather you wouldn't do that in class."

Children, even adults could pray in schools, now it is politically incorrect to do so, and there are unwritten and impolied threats if you do.

that is the short list. These are the kinder things, and mostly about schools. There is more.

"Bibles used to be a text for schools, now they are not allowed to be in some school libraries, and certainly not taught in the schools. "


bibles should NOT be used as text books

they should ONLY be allowed in schools in religion classes

or mythology



"Government applied their faith to their jobs in the birthing of this nation. Now Government application of theit faith is "unconstitutional." How is that?"

That is the way it should be.
you can be a person of faith and still be a government employee.
just keep yoru religion to your self

government (and laws) should be based on logic and reaosn, NOT on religion.



"Giddeons used to hand out Bibles to the schools, now they are not allowed. However, schools freely hand our dondoms, even without caring what the parents think about it."

neither condoms nor bibles should be distributed in schools

(I note that when you say bible you are specifying the CHRISTIAN bible. please stop trying to brainwash my kids with your religion! I have worked very hard to brainwsh MY kids MY way and I do NOT appreciate YOU meddling with my kids brians.)


"Chewing gum and throwing spitballs was the worst behaviors in schools not so long ago. Those have been replaced with bullying, murders, and rape.



"Punishment was used , and now the better way is to pat the child on the back and say, "I'd rather you wouldn't do that in class."

I am ALL FOR punishing kids who are trouble.
or tossing them out of school all together


"Children, even adults could pray in schools, now it is politically incorrect to do so, and there are unwritten and impolied threats if you do. "

you canpray in schools.
you just can't stop school and force everyone to wait while YOU pray
nor can you force everyone to pray with you.

should you choose to spend all of history or science or math class praying that is your business.
good luck on the finals.



"that is the short list. These are the kinder things, and mostly about schools. There is more. "

please stop trying to brainwash all of our kids with YOUR religious beliefs.

thanks

 

[HUGGY]

There is no "going back". The OP is rediculous wishfull naive crap.

Here is "How it was".

No electricity
No running water or sewer for 90% of the population.
It took weeks to send or recieve mail.. months to send and recieve something across the Atlantic.
It took 100 times as long to go anywhere.. In the winter..longer if even possible(frozen rivers)
There were no corporations buying congress
Life expectancy was about half of what it is now.
If you got a serious disease you died.

Now with the lobbiest money buying influence your dream has long since been sold.

Without a very bloody revolution in the style of the French there is no hope of "revisiting" our so-called pristine beginnings.

 

[Madeline]

I'm baffled by people who seem to think the men who wrote and adopted our constitution had some sort of ESP, and could see the future.

Do you truly think Jefferson sat around contemplating freedom of speech vs. child porn on the internet?

 

[Smartt33]

Smartt33 wrote:

There are many, however I will organize them so they apply to what the founders wrote, and likely intended.

The following is a sample:

Bibles used to be a text for schools, now they are not allowed to be in some school libraries, and certainly not taught in the schools.

Bible classes are not held in public schools because that would be unconstitutional.

Government applied their faith to their jobs in the birthing of this nation. Now


Government application of their faith is "unconstitutional." How is that?

What do you mean "application of their faith"?

Giddeons used to hand out Bibles to the schools, now they are not allowed. However, schools freely hand our dondoms, even without caring what the parents think about it.

When did Gideons hand out bibles to public school children? I have never heard of such a thing. And no one thinks handing out condoms to school children is without problems of its own, or is in some way related to religion. In any event, neither of these things happened when the nation was first formed...I fail to see any connection to "the intent of the founders".

Chewing gum and throwing spitballs was the worst behaviors in schools not so long ago. Those have been replaced with bullying, murders, and rape.

Well, I dun know about murder but yes, public schools are more dangerous now. I think most adults are very concerned by this, and if you have any solutions, please share.

Punishment was used , and now the better way is to pat the child on the back and say, "I'd rather you wouldn't do that in class."

I presume you mean corporal punishment was used in public schools. Mebbe so, but not in my lifetime. Again, what does this have to do with the intent of the founders or religion?

Children, even adults could pray in schools, now it is politically incorrect to do so, and there are unwritten and impolied threats if you do.

No one threatens anyone for praying in school. It is the law of this country that no religion can be taught in a public school...based upon the intent of the Founders. Quite a bit of public money is used to help those who wish to send their kids to private, religious schools to do so. Is there more you feel needs to be done? If so, what?


that is the short list. These are the kinder things, and mostly about schools. There is more.
__________________

So far, what I gather is that you believe in a past that never existed and based on this false belief, you think the US is going to hell in a handbasket. And that it is mostly the fault of public schools......time for someone to do a bit of remedial reading, methinks.

O am, going to answer your pose in order of the statements you made.

First, How is it that back when this country was young using Bibles as a text book was OK, and somehow now it is unconstitutional? Where in the constitution does it say that the Bible cannot be a textbook? Oh, and the Bible was also used to teach values as well. What is the difference today?

Government application of their faith would be that when they represented the nations people they always acted in what they believed was the best interest of the people, and the nation. Often they voted according to their faith, when morality was at issue.

You do need to get out once in a while, or you are indeed playing a game here. check out giddeons on googld.

And using the Bible as a text book meant that the Bibles were readily available in the schools, back in the day. Later, as that became prohibited, Giddeons offered to distribute them to any child who wanted one in the schools. So, yes it does apply to back then and now. Now there is a lot of unwritten pressure for students, and certainly teachers not to take their Bibles to school. However, as soon as a person is convicted of a crime and slammed into prisson they give him a Bible and say you should have been reading this all along.

You don't know about murder in the schools? Are you kidding?????? I don't have a solution now, but before it got so bad, I believe having the freedom of religion as it was back when America was born would have been the solution. Now, that idea is a war zone.

Are you a very young teenager? Or an emlementary school student? You seem to be in the dark about a lot of what is in the news daily.

Corpral punishment was used back when America was young. It worked, and the kids respected the reasons for it. It will not work now because we have spoiled the kids.

We can spend public money for millions of abortions, but a good values education is taboo???? I know that is America today, and that is why she is crumbling.

I believe in the past that certainly did exist, and it is written in the history. However, you don't even know what is happening today so how can you have any idea what happened back then?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

We're a nation divided against itself and I think this time it's best if we went our own separate ways: The United States and the Progressives States.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Why is there such a battle to separate the birth of America from the Principles upon which she was born?

Whose principles, the Catholics or the Quakers? I gotta tell you that I favor the Protestant view on birth control freedoms... Perhaps the principles we should follow are those that support freedom when it comes to the lifestyle choices we make.

Is there such a fear of good and right that people cannot function with them around?

Whose 'good' and whose 'right'? Should we let the Baptists decide and everyone start drinking out of paper bags?

Does truth, good morals, and goodness somehow interfere with the new American way?

I refuse to follow the moral codes of the Catholics. Hell, I refuse to follow the moral codes of any of todays most popular worshiping lifestyles. THAT is what makes America America - as long as I don't infringe on your way for yours, I can do my lifestyle my way.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aht9hcDFyVw]YouTube - Frank Sinatra My Way[/ame]




Why can we not allow the words of our founding fathers to be told?

What is so bad about good?

Whose definition and interpretation of "good"? Trust me. I don't like yours... Is this the part where we get violent for 'proof of dominance'?

​

 

[AVG-JOE]

Smart, if T.J., Mr. Adams, Benny F. and the rest of their posse had wanted to form a "Christian" nation they would have.

They took great pains to form a secular nation in spite of similarities in their personal faiths. That's what makes them great men in this planets wonderful and painful history.

 

[AVG-JOE]

There is no "going back". The OP is rediculous wishfull naive crap.

Here is "How it was".

No electricity
No running water or sewer for 90% of the population.
It took weeks to send or recieve mail.. months to send and recieve something across the Atlantic.
It took 100 times as long to go anywhere.. In the winter..longer if even possible(frozen rivers)
There were no corporations buying congress
Life expectancy was about half of what it is now.
If you got a serious disease you died.

Now with the lobbiest money buying influence your dream has long since been sold.

Without a very bloody revolution in the style of the French there is no hope of "revisiting" our so-called pristine beginnings.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to HUGGY again.

Bummer!

 

[AVG-JOE]

Smartt33 wrote:

There are many,

>Snip for space.<

O am, going to answer your pose in order of the statements you made.

First, How is it that back when this country was young using Bibles as a text book was OK, and somehow now it is unconstitutional? Where in the constitution does it say that the Bible cannot be a textbook? Oh, and the Bible was also used to teach values as well. What is the difference today?


>Snip for space.<

The difference between 1850 and today is that today congress has a much more diverse group of bona fide citizens to answer to than the mostly white, mostly Christian electorate if the 1800's.

If We, The People had a vote, YES or NO, on whether or not we should become a 'Christian' nation, how would YOU vote?

 

[AVG-JOE]

We're a nation divided against itself and I think this time it's best if we went our own separate ways: The United States and the Progressives States.

You sure you want to give up both coasts there Red-State man?

 

[Smartt33]

No, I am not kidding. What specifically are you concerned about?

These amorphous threads that we have wandered away from some supposed nirvana of US society strike me as just so much bullshit...I am curious to see what aspect of our common life you find so objectionable.

There are many, however I will organize them so they apply to what the founders wrote, and likely intended.

The following is a sample:

Bibles used to be a text for schools, now they are not allowed to be in some school libraries, and certainly not taught in the schools.

Government applied their faith to their jobs in the birthing of this nation. Now Government application of theit faith is "unconstitutional." How is that?

Giddeons used to hand out Bibles to the schools, now they are not allowed. However, schools freely hand our dondoms, even without caring what the parents think about it.

Chewing gum and throwing spitballs was the worst behaviors in schools not so long ago. Those have been replaced with bullying, murders, and rape.

Punishment was used , and now the better way is to pat the child on the back and say, "I'd rather you wouldn't do that in class."

Children, even adults could pray in schools, now it is politically incorrect to do so, and there are unwritten and impolied threats if you do.

that is the short list. These are the kinder things, and mostly about schools. There is more.

"Bibles used to be a text for schools, now they are not allowed to be in some school libraries, and certainly not taught in the schools. "


bibles should NOT be used as text books

they should ONLY be allowed in schools in religion classes

or mythology



"Government applied their faith to their jobs in the birthing of this nation. Now Government application of theit faith is "unconstitutional." How is that?"

That is the way it should be.
you can be a person of faith and still be a government employee.
just keep yoru religion to your self

government (and laws) should be based on logic and reaosn, NOT on religion.



"Giddeons used to hand out Bibles to the schools, now they are not allowed. However, schools freely hand our dondoms, even without caring what the parents think about it."

neither condoms nor bibles should be distributed in schools

(I note that when you say bible you are specifying the CHRISTIAN bible. please stop trying to brainwash my kids with your religion! I have worked very hard to brainwsh MY kids MY way and I do NOT appreciate YOU meddling with my kids brians.)


"Chewing gum and throwing spitballs was the worst behaviors in schools not so long ago. Those have been replaced with bullying, murders, and rape.



"Punishment was used , and now the better way is to pat the child on the back and say, "I'd rather you wouldn't do that in class."

I am ALL FOR punishing kids who are trouble.
or tossing them out of school all together


"Children, even adults could pray in schools, now it is politically incorrect to do so, and there are unwritten and impolied threats if you do. "

you canpray in schools.
you just can't stop school and force everyone to wait while YOU pray
nor can you force everyone to pray with you.

should you choose to spend all of history or science or math class praying that is your business.
good luck on the finals.



"that is the short list. These are the kinder things, and mostly about schools. There is more. "

please stop trying to brainwash all of our kids with YOUR religious beliefs.

thanks

The discussion was about America in her beginnings, and younger years. You have only been sarcastic, and hateful in your responses. No one is trying to brainwash your kids. What was Constitutional back then is still constitutional unless someopne is changing the Constitution.

Bibles were used, not to teach religion, but English and grammar. It was also used to teach proper values back then. If it was constitutional then, what has changed?

 

[Smartt33]

There is no "going back". The OP is rediculous wishfull naive crap.

Here is "How it was".

No electricity
No running water or sewer for 90% of the population.
It took weeks to send or recieve mail.. months to send and recieve something across the Atlantic.
It took 100 times as long to go anywhere.. In the winter..longer if even possible(frozen rivers)
There were no corporations buying congress
Life expectancy was about half of what it is now.
If you got a serious disease you died.

Now with the lobbiest money buying influence your dream has long since been sold.

Without a very bloody revolution in the style of the French there is no hope of "revisiting" our so-called pristine beginnings.

I am not suggesting that we go back in time. I am only suggesting that the principles that formed the foundation of our country were good, and are no longer in effect. I do believe we need to return to higher standards, especially morally.

You did take me down memory lane a bit though. I was raised as a child in a home where there was no indoor plumbing. We had an outhouse. It is actually still standing. We had a well, and drew water for everything. We warmed the water outside over a fire in a large pot, for our baths (which we took ourside, in shared water). We did have some electricity after a while, but we used wood and coal stoves for heating and cooking. We chopped wood, shovelled coal, picked cotten, grew our own vegies, had chickens and cows, and pigs. We ate very well. There were no close neighbors (in distance) but we were always close in friendships. We created our own games and activities, and could play outside all day when the chores were done. We were safe from dangerous people, but snakes and falling out of trees, etc. were possible. Those were indeed the good old days. In school behavior was much better than now, but the adults did not think so. LOL Morals were of a higher standars, at least publically.

Sorry fot the digression.