America needs to revisit Her beginnings

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by Smartt33, Jul 24, 2010.

  1. Smartt33
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    Smartt33 Senior Member

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    Why is there such a battle to separate the birth of America from the Principles upon which she was born?

    Is there such a fear of good and right that people cannot function with them around?

    Does truth, good morals, and goodness somehow interfere with the new American way?

    Why can we not allow the words of our founding fathers to be told?

    What is so bad about good?

    I am not talking about religion. I am not talking about Christianity. I am not even talking about the Bible totally. I am talking about clean and moral principles. I believe all of the good things that this nation stood for in her birth can be found in the Bible, indeed, I believe they are Biblical principles. However, many people are hindered in their lifestyles by good and moral principles, no matter where they came from.

    I believe it is about selfishness, greed and pleasures, no matter the cost. I believe America is driven by these three things, and whatever apposes them is “wrong.”

    Jefferson did say that the Bible is the cornerstone of our liberty. Oh, that is not a quote, it is a paraphrase. Patrick Henry believed America was founded on the Gospel of Christ. Jefferson did believe that it is the God of creation is the one who makes us equal. Jefferson said, “Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.”

    The preambles to most of the States in America have a direct comment about our connection to God. It is the people who our government is to represent, and not to control. The representatives are supposed to be listening to the people.

    John Adams, and John Hancock said that there is no Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus.

    John Adams said,
    “ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.” He also said that Independence say was a day of deliverance brought on by genuine acts of devotion to God almighty.

    I believe Christians need to get back to the basics, and move back into that close relationship with Almighty God where they were when America began. (II Chronicles 7:14)

    The Constitution cannot possibly stand if our country is given over to immorality and the evilness that she is facing right now. Just as the Bible says that the law was written for the righteous people, because it will protect them, John Adams said, “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

    Government is not secular or religious, government is a servant to the people. The people of America when she was born were a religious people, given to the principles of the Scriptures. Government has no business interfering with what the people want. Currently the government seems to not understand that.

    Yes, all religions are free in America, as it should be. None will be the chosen religion in America. None can demand anything of the other. Secular living is also a freedom in America. We must do well to hold high standards, and clearly our founders knew that the Principles of the Bible were the greatest measure of high standards. Fools may try to point out some events in the Bible that seem to be immoral, but the overriding principles in the Bible are clear, and no man can be without excuse.

    America needs to return to the founders’ understanding of what sustains a strong nation. That would be a pure devotion to the God who created us.

    "Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
    -Thomas Jefferson
     
  2. Mad Scientist
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    Mad Scientist Deplorable Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Inb4 someone posts: "Americas founders were white, racist slave owners".
     
  3. Smartt33
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    Smartt33 Senior Member

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    They were white, and some were slave owners.

    You cannot say they were racists just because they owned the slaves. You have to prove they were racists.

    However, none of what you said responds to what I said.
     
  4. Madeline
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    Madeline BANNED

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    The fact of owning slaves proves racism beyond a shadow of a doubt.

    What exactly are you bitching about, Smart? Exactly what changes in our culture do you perceive to be deviations from our founding principles?
     
  5. Smartt33
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    Smartt33 Senior Member

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    Actually that is not true. Many slave owners were not interest in slavery, but business. They were good to the people who worked for them. They took care of them.

    And what about the blacks who owned slaves. Were they racists? According to your reasoning they were.

    Back to the other issue, only about 1/3 of the Founding Fathers owned slaves. Many of those were good to their slaves, and made a good life for them.

    As to your last question, you must be kidding. If I have to answer that you live in a bubble, and I doubt my words would get through to you.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2010
  6. Madeline
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    Madeline BANNED

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    No, I am not kidding. What specifically are you concerned about?

    These amorphous threads that we have wandered away from some supposed nirvana of US society strike me as just so much bullshit...I am curious to see what aspect of our common life you find so objectionable.
     
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  7. Smartt33
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    Smartt33 Senior Member

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    There are many, however I will organize them so they apply to what the founders wrote, and likely intended.

    The following is a sample:

    Bibles used to be a text for schools, now they are not allowed to be in some school libraries, and certainly not taught in the schools.

    Government applied their faith to their jobs in the birthing of this nation. Now Government application of theit faith is "unconstitutional." How is that?

    Giddeons used to hand out Bibles to the schools, now they are not allowed. However, schools freely hand our dondoms, even without caring what the parents think about it.

    Chewing gum and throwing spitballs was the worst behaviors in schools not so long ago. Those have been replaced with bullying, murders, and rape.

    Punishment was used , and now the better way is to pat the child on the back and say, "I'd rather you wouldn't do that in class."

    Children, even adults could pray in schools, now it is politically incorrect to do so, and there are unwritten and impolied threats if you do.

    that is the short list. These are the kinder things, and mostly about schools. There is more.
     
  8. Madeline
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    So far, what I gather is that you believe in a past that never existed and based on this false belief, you think the US is going to hell in a handbasket. And that it is mostly the fault of public schools......time for someone to do a bit of remedial reading, methinks.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2010
  9. rikules
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    rikules fighting thugs and cons

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    "Bibles used to be a text for schools, now they are not allowed to be in some school libraries, and certainly not taught in the schools. "


    bibles should NOT be used as text books

    they should ONLY be allowed in schools in religion classes

    or mythology



    "Government applied their faith to their jobs in the birthing of this nation. Now Government application of theit faith is "unconstitutional." How is that?"

    That is the way it should be.
    you can be a person of faith and still be a government employee.
    just keep yoru religion to your self

    government (and laws) should be based on logic and reaosn, NOT on religion.



    "Giddeons used to hand out Bibles to the schools, now they are not allowed. However, schools freely hand our dondoms, even without caring what the parents think about it."

    neither condoms nor bibles should be distributed in schools

    (I note that when you say bible you are specifying the CHRISTIAN bible. please stop trying to brainwash my kids with your religion! I have worked very hard to brainwsh MY kids MY way and I do NOT appreciate YOU meddling with my kids brians.)


    "Chewing gum and throwing spitballs was the worst behaviors in schools not so long ago. Those have been replaced with bullying, murders, and rape.



    "Punishment was used , and now the better way is to pat the child on the back and say, "I'd rather you wouldn't do that in class."

    I am ALL FOR punishing kids who are trouble.
    or tossing them out of school all together


    "Children, even adults could pray in schools, now it is politically incorrect to do so, and there are unwritten and impolied threats if you do. "

    you canpray in schools.
    you just can't stop school and force everyone to wait while YOU pray
    nor can you force everyone to pray with you.

    should you choose to spend all of history or science or math class praying that is your business.
    good luck on the finals.



    "that is the short list. These are the kinder things, and mostly about schools. There is more. "

    please stop trying to brainwash all of our kids with YOUR religious beliefs.

    thanks
     
  10. HUGGY
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    HUGGY I Post Because I Care Supporting Member

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    There is no "going back". The OP is rediculous wishfull naive crap.

    Here is "How it was".

    No electricity
    No running water or sewer for 90% of the population.
    It took weeks to send or recieve mail.. months to send and recieve something across the Atlantic.
    It took 100 times as long to go anywhere.. In the winter..longer if even possible(frozen rivers)
    There were no corporations buying congress
    Life expectancy was about half of what it is now.
    If you got a serious disease you died.

    Now with the lobbiest money buying influence your dream has long since been sold.

    Without a very bloody revolution in the style of the French there is no hope of "revisiting" our so-called pristine beginnings.
     

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