Artevelde
Senior Member
Pretty ridiculous. Hayek would never have considered FDR or his policies Fascist.
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We did not, is your real name PETAIN by any chance? You do not seem to have learned about the millions killed by REAL Fascists, read up on it.
As the FAR right decided to ignore Hitler, FDR was initiating Lend Lease, or perhaps you missed that in your "studies".
As the FAR right decided to ignore Hitler, FDR was initiating Lend Lease, or perhaps you missed that in your "studies".
That is not exactly how it was.
FDR was pretty much the only who stood up to Congress and the prevailing political view among elected politicians in both parties, but especially in the pro-business pro-eugenics types... that Hitler was the man to back in Europe over the British Empire, which at the time was seen as a threat to the US. At the time, Hitler's policies were closer to the US's own views than that of their "enemy" the British Empire... both economically and socially.
Even among FDRs cabinet there was Hitler supporters who were lobbying FDR not to back the UK up.
Now when I say Hitler supporters.. I dont mean raving NAZI's. The motivation to support Hitler over the UK varied from business (Bush's grandfather for example) to the threat of the British Empire on US aspirations world wide. They simply saw Nazi Germany as the best bet in a war in Europe and the enemy of my enemy... the British Empire.
Somewhat true, but the fact so many wanted to stay OUT of WWII is pretty much a given, due to our lack of military readiness, and focus on attacking FDR.
FDR didn't want to know about Nazi atrosities. Even after his own administration begged him to relax the immigration standards so that Jews could leave Germany he refused. The US had no intelligence network and the State Dept consisted of a bunch of rich liberals who used US embassies for parties. The ambassador to Germany was an honest college professor who was ridiculed by FDR's elite liberals and he was finally relieved of duty when he complained too much about Hitler.
I don't think that is true at all.
But it does remind me of when the BBC admittedly recently that they had not broadcast reports about the deathcamps when they first heard them because they thought they had to be exggerated. My parents said the same - the first time you heard about ovens, your first reaction was 'Really? Surely not!'.
It's easy to blame them from 2012.
FDR didn't want to know about Nazi atrosities. Even after his own administration begged him to relax the immigration standards so that Jews could leave Germany he refused. The US had no intelligence network and the State Dept consisted of a bunch of rich liberals who used US embassies for parties. The ambassador to Germany was an honest college professor who was ridiculed by FDR's elite liberals and he was finally relieved of duty when he complained too much about Hitler.
I don't think that is true at all.
But it does remind me of when the BBC admittedly recently that they had not broadcast reports about the deathcamps when they first heard them because they thought they had to be exggerated. My parents said the same - the first time you heard about ovens, your first reaction was 'Really? Surely not!'.
It's easy to blame them from 2012.
My mother, who was a child at the time, said the same thing; people in the US heard about the atrocities but had a tough believing it was true. It was unprecedented in their lives. FDR remains the first world leader to condemn Nazi Germany.
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During his first term Roosevelt condemned Hitler's persecution of German Jews.
Franklin Delano Roosevelt - New World Encyclopedia
We did not, is your real name PETAIN by any chance? You do not seem to have learned about the millions killed by REAL Fascists, read up on it.
Ummm, actually yes we did. In the first part of the last century there were three countries that used concentration camps. We were one of them. I'll let you figure out who the other two were.
Internment camps were used in the US, a sad time, but nothing compared to actual CONCENTRATION & EXTERMINATION camps. The fallacies employed to attack FDR are appalling.
Extermination camp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The original thread suggested that some sort of "right wing" cabal prevented FDR from dealing with Nazi Germany. The notion is ludicrous and is indicative of the lack of historic perspective in the union based education system. Elitist rich FDR might not have been good for much else with a "C" average in college but he was a consummate politician who even married his gangly boyish looking cousin to gain some political points with his famous cousin Teddy Roosevelt.
The anti Roosevelt members of Congress did much to keep the country mired in economic collapse, and did NOT want the US involved in the war in Europe.
Ummm, actually yes we did. In the first part of the last century there were three countries that used concentration camps. We were one of them. I'll let you figure out who the other two were.
Internment camps were used in the US, a sad time, but nothing compared to actual CONCENTRATION & EXTERMINATION camps. The fallacies employed to attack FDR are appalling.
Extermination camp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The legal process that created them was the same peach. Tens of thousands of Japanese died in them just as surely as millions of Jews, gypsy's, homosexuals and other "non-desirables" died in the German and Soviet camps. The only difference is that of scale. There weren't that many Japanese to put into the camps and that is what kept the death count low. I've never run the numbers but if a audit were done I would not be surprised to see the death rate of the Japanese in our CONCENTRATION CAMPS was much lower than what occured in Germany. Nothing comes close to what the Soviets did though.
Well that's not exactly true, I forgot to include the Chinese "Culteral Revolution" in my first post. So we are one of four socialist countries to place its citizens in CONCENTRATION CAMPS AGAINST THEIR WILL UNDER FORCE OF LAW.
You see peach, history is important for people to know. Hopefully it prevents repeats. Sadly the rulers we have don't want you to l;earn history...I wonder why that is?
We should have been allies with nazi Germany against the USSR.
But the globalist/zog cabal in our government ran the show and pushed their agenda forward and America lost out.
Internment camps were used in the US, a sad time, but nothing compared to actual CONCENTRATION & EXTERMINATION camps. The fallacies employed to attack FDR are appalling.
Extermination camp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The legal process that created them was the same peach. Tens of thousands of Japanese died in them just as surely as millions of Jews, gypsy's, homosexuals and other "non-desirables" died in the German and Soviet camps. The only difference is that of scale. There weren't that many Japanese to put into the camps and that is what kept the death count low. I've never run the numbers but if a audit were done I would not be surprised to see the death rate of the Japanese in our CONCENTRATION CAMPS was much lower than what occured in Germany. Nothing comes close to what the Soviets did though.
Well that's not exactly true, I forgot to include the Chinese "Culteral Revolution" in my first post. So we are one of four socialist countries to place its citizens in CONCENTRATION CAMPS AGAINST THEIR WILL UNDER FORCE OF LAW.
You see peach, history is important for people to know. Hopefully it prevents repeats. Sadly the rulers we have don't want you to l;earn history...I wonder why that is?
The Soviet camps were termed GULAGS. Solzhenitsyn wrote about them. The Japanese were responsible for millions of deaths in the invasion of China also. The strange diversion from Fascism is troubling. al Qaeda is FASCIST, not socialist, yet this thread is turned into post WW II communist atrocities.
As the FAR right decided to ignore Hitler, FDR was initiating Lend Lease, or perhaps you missed that in your "studies".
Oh, you mean in his quest to support Josef Stalin, who butchered 10 to 12 times as many people as Hitler?
Real fucking humanitarian there...
And to somehow equate the internment camps in the US and other countries with the Nazi or Soviet concentration camps is intellectually dishonest and false.
I disagree.
depending on how you do the math you might even conceivable claim Stalin killed more people than Hitler.
depending on how you do the math you might even conceivable claim Stalin killed more people than Hitler.
There is no question that he did, by a far margin.
Obviously, these Japs were neither "innocent" or "loyal", and that's why they needed to be locked up.As is using comparison with European "extermination camps" as a means of diminishing the utter outrage of the US government rounding up over 100,000 innocent, loyal US citizens and residents and throwing them into concentration camps.