America & Nazi Germany

[Peach]

FDR didn't want to know about Nazi atrosities. Even after his own administration begged him to relax the immigration standards so that Jews could leave Germany he refused. The US had no intelligence network and the State Dept consisted of a bunch of rich liberals who used US embassies for parties. The ambassador to Germany was an honest college professor who was ridiculed by FDR's elite liberals and he was finally relieved of duty when he complained too much about Hitler.

Not true. Morganthau paid for those on The Voyage of The Damned to be accepted in Europe. The Vrba report was key in informing the US*, though FDR began in 1942 to condemn the atrocity:

With the active intervention of the State Department and the “Joint”, the St. Louis went to England (not Germany), where 288 of the 907 passengers disembarked and survived the Holocaust. The remaining 619 disembarked at Antwerp and went to France, Belgium, and Holland. The leading authorities on the St. Louis estimate that 392 of the 619 who disembarked at Antwerp survived the war. Thus more than 2/3 of the passengers on the St. Louis survived the Holocaust.The passengers knew that Americans had saved them. “Our gratitude is as immense as the ocean on which we are now floating,” they wired Morris Troper of the Joint. Three years later, after Hitler conquered the Netherlands, France, and Belgium, and initiated the Final Solution, 227 of the St. Louis’s 936 passengers became victims of the Holocaust. Of course in June 1939 no one could have foreseen this. The death camps did not even exist in 1939. The Roosevelt Administration had done all it could.
________________________________________________________
He denounced the Nazi massacres of Jews in July 1942. He warned Germans of “fearful retribution” in August of that year. On December 17, 1942, Roosevelt and Churchill issued the United Nations Declaration on Jewish Massacres, denouncing “in the strongest possible terms this bestial policy of cold-blooded extermination” of the “Jewish people in Europe.”


This was BEFORE the Vrba report.

The only agenda for the US ambassador to Germany was to pressure the Nazi regime for the reparations "owed" to the US after WW1. Other than that FDR didn't want to hear of atrocities which were going on throughout the 30's. There was no condemnation of the Nazi regime until it became politically advantageous after the war started. Jews were "encouraged" to emigrate anywhere but the US.

FDR began to condemn Nazi Germany early on, actually, here is just a few remarks IN THE 1930's:

In 1937 Congress passed an even more stringent act, but when the Sino-Japanese War broke out in 1937, Roosevelt found various ways to assist China, and warned that Italy, Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were threats to world peace and to the U.S. When World War II broke out in Europe in 1939, Roosevelt became increasingly eager to assist Britain and France, and he began a regular secret correspondence with Winston Churchill, in which the two freely discussed ways of circumventing the Neutrality Acts.

I've read statements he made before then.

 

[rdean]

I've often wondered, would Republicans do to the gays and blacks what Hitler did to the Jews of they are given the chance? Considering what right wingers say on this very board, I believe it's a fair question.

 

[Saigon]

FDR didn't want to know about Nazi atrosities. Even after his own administration begged him to relax the immigration standards so that Jews could leave Germany he refused. The US had no intelligence network and the State Dept consisted of a bunch of rich liberals who used US embassies for parties. The ambassador to Germany was an honest college professor who was ridiculed by FDR's elite liberals and he was finally relieved of duty when he complained too much about Hitler.

I don't think that is true at all.

But it does remind me of when the BBC admittedly recently that they had not broadcast reports about the deathcamps when they first heard them because they thought they had to be exggerated. My parents said the same - the first time you heard about ovens, your first reaction was 'Really? Surely not!'.

It's easy to blame them from 2012.

 

[Truthmatters]

their attempts to rewrite history are failing

 

[Peach]

FDR didn't want to know about Nazi atrosities. Even after his own administration begged him to relax the immigration standards so that Jews could leave Germany he refused. The US had no intelligence network and the State Dept consisted of a bunch of rich liberals who used US embassies for parties. The ambassador to Germany was an honest college professor who was ridiculed by FDR's elite liberals and he was finally relieved of duty when he complained too much about Hitler.

I don't think that is true at all.

But it does remind me of when the BBC admittedly recently that they had not broadcast reports about the deathcamps when they first heard them because they thought they had to be exggerated. My parents said the same - the first time you heard about ovens, your first reaction was 'Really? Surely not!'.

It's easy to blame them from 2012.

My mother, who was a child at the time, said the same thing; people in the US heard about the atrocities but had a tough believing it was true. It was unprecedented in their lives. FDR remains the first world leader to condemn Nazi Germany.
____________________________________________________________

During his first term Roosevelt condemned Hitler's persecution of German Jews.

Franklin Delano Roosevelt - New World Encyclopedia

 

[whitehall]

A good reference other than the glitz sold to American kids as "history" is a current book by Eric Larson called "In the Garden of the Beasts". It's the story of Ambassador William E. Dodd a liberal college professor who found himself ambassador to Germany in the most critical time in history. Instead of cherry picking speeches by the great orator read a real account of Nazi Germany and American politics by someone who lived it.

 

[Peach]

A good reference other than the glitz sold to American kids as "history" is a current book by Eric Larson called "In the Garden of the Beasts". It's the story of Ambassador William E. Dodd a liberal college professor who found himself ambassador to Germany in the most critical time in history. Instead of cherry picking speeches by the great orator read a real account of Nazi Germany and American politics by someone who lived it.

My parents lived it & both recalled Roosevelt's continued anti Hitler stance.

 

[del]

Here is part of the actual EA, gold was not confiscated, the HOARDING of gold not used in trade was, with many exceptions:

Section 1. For the purpose of this regulation, the term 'hoarding" means the withdrawal and withholding of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates from the recognized and customary channels of trade. The term "person" means any individual, partnership, association or corporation.

Section 2. All persons are hereby required to deliver on or before May 1, 1933, to a Federal Reserve bank or a branch or agency thereof or to any member bank of the Federal Reserve System all gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates now owned by them or coming into their ownership on or before April 28, 1933, except the following:

(a) Such amount of gold as may be required for legitimate and customary use in industry, profession or art within a reasonable time, including gold prior to refining and stocks of gold in reasonable amounts for the usual trade requirements of owners mining and refining such gold.

(b) Gold coin and gold certificates in an amount not exceeding in the aggregate $100.00 belonging to any one person; and gold coins having recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual coins.

(c) Gold coin and bullion earmarked or held in trust for a recognized foreign government or foreign central bank or the Bank for International Settlements.

(d) Gold coin and bullion licensed for the other proper transactions (not involving hoarding) including gold coin and gold bullion imported for the re-export or held pending action on applications for export license.

Executive Order 6102 - Wikisource

talk about a distinction without a difference

it wasn't confiscated, it was just taken away.

 

[Oddball]

As someone with plenty of Alsatian blood coursing through his veins, I impolitely invite you to ram it up your liberoidal ass.

FDR provoked war with Japan, via economic embargo and directly with the AVG (Flying Tigers), who were flying combat missions well before 7 December'41.

France, England and the good ole USA sold Poland down the river to the reds...."Fuck the Poles", said the craven traitors who declared war on Germany over the 1 September '39 Nazi invasion.

America ended up enabling and empowering both Stalin and Mao, who out-slaughtered Hitler by a factor of no less than ten.

You are one seriously sad excuse of an historian.

Had I not voted for McCain, and am now considering Romney, you might have made a point. there is a first time for everything.

WTF do McLouse and Romney have to do with anything?

 

[whitehall]

The original thread suggested that some sort of "right wing" cabal prevented FDR from dealing with Nazi Germany. The notion is ludicrous and is indicative of the lack of historic perspective in the union based education system. Elitist rich FDR might not have been good for much else with a "C" average in college but he was a consummate politician who even married his gangly boyish looking cousin to gain some political points with his famous cousin Teddy Roosevelt.

 

[Peach]

Here is part of the actual EA, gold was not confiscated, the HOARDING of gold not used in trade was, with many exceptions:

Section 1. For the purpose of this regulation, the term 'hoarding" means the withdrawal and withholding of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates from the recognized and customary channels of trade. The term "person" means any individual, partnership, association or corporation.

Section 2. All persons are hereby required to deliver on or before May 1, 1933, to a Federal Reserve bank or a branch or agency thereof or to any member bank of the Federal Reserve System all gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates now owned by them or coming into their ownership on or before April 28, 1933, except the following:

(a) Such amount of gold as may be required for legitimate and customary use in industry, profession or art within a reasonable time, including gold prior to refining and stocks of gold in reasonable amounts for the usual trade requirements of owners mining and refining such gold.

(b) Gold coin and gold certificates in an amount not exceeding in the aggregate $100.00 belonging to any one person; and gold coins having recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual coins.

(c) Gold coin and bullion earmarked or held in trust for a recognized foreign government or foreign central bank or the Bank for International Settlements.

(d) Gold coin and bullion licensed for the other proper transactions (not involving hoarding) including gold coin and gold bullion imported for the re-export or held pending action on applications for export license.

Executive Order 6102 - Wikisource

talk about a distinction without a difference

it wasn't confiscated, it was just taken away.

Big difference:

(a) Such amount of gold as may be required for legitimate and customary use in industry, profession or art within a reasonable time, including gold prior to refining and stocks of gold in reasonable amounts for the usual trade requirements of owners mining and refining such gold.

(b) Gold coin and gold certificates in an amount not exceeding in the aggregate $100.00 belonging to any one person; and gold coins having recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual coins.

(c) Gold coin and bullion earmarked or held in trust for a recognized foreign government or foreign central bank or the Bank for International Settlements.

(d) Gold coin and bullion licensed for the other proper transactions (not involving hoarding) including gold coin and gold bullion imported for the re-export or held pending action on applications for export license.

 

[Peach]

As someone with plenty of Alsatian blood coursing through his veins, I impolitely invite you to ram it up your liberoidal ass.

FDR provoked war with Japan, via economic embargo and directly with the AVG (Flying Tigers), who were flying combat missions well before 7 December'41.

France, England and the good ole USA sold Poland down the river to the reds...."Fuck the Poles", said the craven traitors who declared war on Germany over the 1 September '39 Nazi invasion.

America ended up enabling and empowering both Stalin and Mao, who out-slaughtered Hitler by a factor of no less than ten.

You are one seriously sad excuse of an historian.

Had I not voted for McCain, and am now considering Romney, you might have made a point. there is a first time for everything.

WTF do McLouse and Romney have to do with anything?

Your odd "liberoidal" term for me. More actual history on what Roosevelt did IN THE 1930's:

Letter, FDR to New York Governor Herbert Lehman, November 13, 1935:
Throughout the 1930s, President Roosevelt was kept informed of the growing refugee crisis in Europe by political leaders with ties to the American Jewish community, including New York Governor Herbert Lehman. Through these contacts, Roosevelt also learned that the strict immigration quotas in place at the time were not being fully or fairly administered by his own State Department. In this November 13, 1935 letter, the President advises Lehman of the results of his own examination of the visa issue, the legal limitations imposed by the Immigration Act of 1924, and his instruction to the State Department that
German Jews applying for visas were to be given “the most generous and favorable treatment possible
under the laws of this country.” (President’s Official File 133: Immigration, 1933-35, Box 1).

 

[del]

Here is part of the actual EA, gold was not confiscated, the HOARDING of gold not used in trade was, with many exceptions:

Section 1. For the purpose of this regulation, the term 'hoarding" means the withdrawal and withholding of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates from the recognized and customary channels of trade. The term "person" means any individual, partnership, association or corporation.

Section 2. All persons are hereby required to deliver on or before May 1, 1933, to a Federal Reserve bank or a branch or agency thereof or to any member bank of the Federal Reserve System all gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates now owned by them or coming into their ownership on or before April 28, 1933, except the following:

(a) Such amount of gold as may be required for legitimate and customary use in industry, profession or art within a reasonable time, including gold prior to refining and stocks of gold in reasonable amounts for the usual trade requirements of owners mining and refining such gold.

(b) Gold coin and gold certificates in an amount not exceeding in the aggregate $100.00 belonging to any one person; and gold coins having recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual coins.

(c) Gold coin and bullion earmarked or held in trust for a recognized foreign government or foreign central bank or the Bank for International Settlements.

(d) Gold coin and bullion licensed for the other proper transactions (not involving hoarding) including gold coin and gold bullion imported for the re-export or held pending action on applications for export license.

Executive Order 6102 - Wikisource

talk about a distinction without a difference

it wasn't confiscated, it was just taken away.

Big difference:

(a) Such amount of gold as may be required for legitimate and customary use in industry, profession or art within a reasonable time, including gold prior to refining and stocks of gold in reasonable amounts for the usual trade requirements of owners mining and refining such gold.

(b) Gold coin and gold certificates in an amount not exceeding in the aggregate $100.00 belonging to any one person; and gold coins having recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual coins.

(c) Gold coin and bullion earmarked or held in trust for a recognized foreign government or foreign central bank or the Bank for International Settlements.

(d) Gold coin and bullion licensed for the other proper transactions (not involving hoarding) including gold coin and gold bullion imported for the re-export or held pending action on applications for export license.

with respect, only a complete fucking idiot would call this a big difference.

no person was allowed to keep more than $100, even 80 years ago, $100 was basically a pittance.

the gold was confiscated, period.

dope

 

[Peach]

As someone with plenty of Alsatian blood coursing through his veins, I impolitely invite you to ram it up your liberoidal ass.

FDR provoked war with Japan, via economic embargo and directly with the AVG (Flying Tigers), who were flying combat missions well before 7 December'41.

France, England and the good ole USA sold Poland down the river to the reds...."Fuck the Poles", said the craven traitors who declared war on Germany over the 1 September '39 Nazi invasion.

America ended up enabling and empowering both Stalin and Mao, who out-slaughtered Hitler by a factor of no less than ten.

You are one seriously sad excuse of an historian.

provoked war with Japan, via economic embargo and directly with the AVG (Flying Tigers), who were flying combat missions well before 7 December'41.

You obviously have not heard of the Japanese atrocities in China. FDR provoked both Japan & Germany by standing against mass slaughter & genocide(.)

 

[Peach]

talk about a distinction without a difference

it wasn't confiscated, it was just taken away.

Big difference:

(a) Such amount of gold as may be required for legitimate and customary use in industry, profession or art within a reasonable time, including gold prior to refining and stocks of gold in reasonable amounts for the usual trade requirements of owners mining and refining such gold.

(b) Gold coin and gold certificates in an amount not exceeding in the aggregate $100.00 belonging to any one person; and gold coins having recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual coins.

(c) Gold coin and bullion earmarked or held in trust for a recognized foreign government or foreign central bank or the Bank for International Settlements.

(d) Gold coin and bullion licensed for the other proper transactions (not involving hoarding) including gold coin and gold bullion imported for the re-export or held pending action on applications for export license.

with respect, only a complete fucking idiot would call this a big difference.

no person was allowed to keep more than $100, even 80 years ago, $100 was basically a pittance.

the gold was confiscated, period.

dope

It was a CALL IN, no government official went house to house searching. Not repealed until 1974, by the way. A non issue.

Gold Confiscation in 1933; Avoiding Gold Confiscation Today

 

[Oddball]

As someone with plenty of Alsatian blood coursing through his veins, I impolitely invite you to ram it up your liberoidal ass.

FDR provoked war with Japan, via economic embargo and directly with the AVG (Flying Tigers), who were flying combat missions well before 7 December'41.

France, England and the good ole USA sold Poland down the river to the reds...."Fuck the Poles", said the craven traitors who declared war on Germany over the 1 September '39 Nazi invasion.

America ended up enabling and empowering both Stalin and Mao, who out-slaughtered Hitler by a factor of no less than ten.

You are one seriously sad excuse of an historian.

provoked war with Japan, via economic embargo and directly with the AVG (Flying Tigers), who were flying combat missions well before 7 December'41.

You obviously have not heard of the Japanese atrocities in China. FDR provoked both Japan & Germany by standing against mass slaughter & genocide(.)

Irrelevant to the fact that Americans were engaged in combat operations when there was no declared state of war between the involved parties.

Then to turn around and have the gall to call Pearl Harbor "unprovoked".

 

[Peach]

Again, the far right avoids the issue of FDR & WWII. By the way, Hoover also spoke out against the Nazis, early on.

 

[Oddball]

Had I not voted for McCain, and am now considering Romney, you might have made a point. there is a first time for everything.

WTF do McLouse and Romney have to do with anything?

Your odd "liberoidal" term for me. More actual history on what Roosevelt did IN THE 1930's:

Letter, FDR to New York Governor Herbert Lehman, November 13, 1935:
Throughout the 1930s, President Roosevelt was kept informed of the growing refugee crisis in Europe by political leaders with ties to the American Jewish community, including New York Governor Herbert Lehman. Through these contacts, Roosevelt also learned that the strict immigration quotas in place at the time were not being fully or fairly administered by his own State Department. In this November 13, 1935 letter, the President advises Lehman of the results of his own examination of the visa issue, the legal limitations imposed by the Immigration Act of 1924, and his instruction to the State Department that
German Jews applying for visas were to be given “the most generous and favorable treatment possible
under the laws of this country.” (President’s Official File 133: Immigration, 1933-35, Box 1).

Trying to wave around an old coot who would have a hard time getting to the right of Hubert Humphrey and a greasy used car salesmen, as some kind of evidence of your bona fides as a so-called "conservative" (whatever the hell that's supposed to man anymore), is laughable.

 

[del]

Big difference:

(a) Such amount of gold as may be required for legitimate and customary use in industry, profession or art within a reasonable time, including gold prior to refining and stocks of gold in reasonable amounts for the usual trade requirements of owners mining and refining such gold.

(b) Gold coin and gold certificates in an amount not exceeding in the aggregate $100.00 belonging to any one person; and gold coins having recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual coins.

(c) Gold coin and bullion earmarked or held in trust for a recognized foreign government or foreign central bank or the Bank for International Settlements.

(d) Gold coin and bullion licensed for the other proper transactions (not involving hoarding) including gold coin and gold bullion imported for the re-export or held pending action on applications for export license.

with respect, only a complete fucking idiot would call this a big difference.

no person was allowed to keep more than $100, even 80 years ago, $100 was basically a pittance.

the gold was confiscated, period.

dope

It was a CALL IN, no government official went house to house searching. Not repealed until 1974, by the way. A non issue.

Gold Confiscation in 1933; Avoiding Gold Confiscation Today

whatever gets you through the night

 

[Peach]

As someone with plenty of Alsatian blood coursing through his veins, I impolitely invite you to ram it up your liberoidal ass.

FDR provoked war with Japan, via economic embargo and directly with the AVG (Flying Tigers), who were flying combat missions well before 7 December'41.

France, England and the good ole USA sold Poland down the river to the reds...."Fuck the Poles", said the craven traitors who declared war on Germany over the 1 September '39 Nazi invasion.

America ended up enabling and empowering both Stalin and Mao, who out-slaughtered Hitler by a factor of no less than ten.

You are one seriously sad excuse of an historian.

provoked war with Japan, via economic embargo and directly with the AVG (Flying Tigers), who were flying combat missions well before 7 December'41.

You obviously have not heard of the Japanese atrocities in China. FDR provoked both Japan & Germany by standing against mass slaughter & genocide(.)

Irrelevant to the fact that Americans were engaged in combat operations when there was no declared state of war between the involved parties.

Then to turn around and have the gall to call Pearl Harbor "unprovoked".

The US did not support the Rape of Nanking, no. The Japanese made it known their claim to most islands in the Pacific. the US thought the attack would come in the Philippines.

The Axis supporters here missed this "touch" of Japanese aggression:

The sinking of the USS Panay is pretty much forgotten now. But it was one of the biggest news stories of 1937.

In the 1930s, the United States had something that would be unthinkable today — a treaty with China allowing American gunboats to travel deep up the Yangtze River. It was a major trade route for U.S. commerce in China, and it was notorious for pirate attacks.

American ships patrolled the river to keep it free of bandits and to protect Standard Oil Co. tankers, says Nick Sparks, a filmmaker and writer.

By 1937, the Yangtze faced a much bigger threat than pirates: The Japanese army had launched an invasion of China, and by December, the Japanese were fighting for the city of Nanking. The fight became known as the Rape of Nanking.

The USS Panay, with 55 men aboard, was sent to rescue any Americans left, including embassy staff and journalists — most notably a newsreel photographer who recorded what was to come.

The Panay, with its civilians aboard, escorted the oil tankers 20 miles upstream to wait out the Battle for Nanking. They anchored in the middle of the river and waited. Then, on Dec. 12, a quiet Sunday afternoon, Japanese planes appeared suddenly and bombed the American vessel.

The last survivor of the attack remembers it vividly. Fon Huffman, now 94, was taking a nap in his bunk when "next thing I remember, they [were] evacuating the ship. And I went in the river."

The newsreel shows the Japanese planes attacking and the crew on deck firing back with machine guns. One sailor was still in his underwear.