CDZ Alright Trump supporters, sell me.

[Fair&Balanced]

Here are my problems with Donald Trump:

1. Yes he knows business and it's a good thing, but I fear he will throw the baby out with the bath water.
2. I believe very strongly that Trump will betray all of you supporters in the end.
3. He is a liberal in his heart, and will advance many destructive liberal policies.

One additional thing, my inclination is the vote against Hillary in the general, but I am at this point, not 100% sure that I will.

CDZ - Alright Trump supporters, sell me.
1. At this point, I'm not sure we need the baby
2. Every politician betrays their supporters at some point, because of 2 things 1) No politician is going to support every policy view of every supporter and 2) no matter the promises we all know and understand that NO POTUS is going to single handily manage to get their entire agenda through. Though we sometimes forget that when we get upset that something wasn't accomplishment
3. He hasn't even lied about what he is. If you don't understand that he's running as a Republican out of necessity, that is not his fault. And besides, there is a reason Cruz is hooting and hollering about bathrooms and abortion and getting his ass kicked in primaries around the county. Time for conservatives to wake up, you are going to have to let some of the social issues go , that's the bottom line.

Yeah we need the baby. In this case the baby is our rights and freedoms, especially economic freedom. I understand that politicians do that, except that is, Ted Cruz, but I have seen no reason to believe that Trump will do any if it. Trumps reason for hi popularity is the promises that he is making. The wall, the immigrants, the trade deals, at least that is what people are telling me.

I don't think ANY of the candidates would , if you asked them, believe they are against freedom. So in that sense, no they aren't wanting to throw away the baby.

And Personally, I don't believe a wall will ever be built. Even if Trump were elected and 100% dead set on it, the POTUS simply doesn't have that kind of sole authority.

 

[PredFan]

Trump is not a politician. The founders were not politicians at the beginning and look at the model government they forged. They were mainly lawyers, doctors, farmers, business men, teachers and other professions. The founders did not intend that professional politicians run the government so the big mistake they made was not to have term limits for congressmen. That's how it started but once in power they gave greedy characters three goals to attain. 1. To be elected 2. To get rich 3. To stay re-elected until the have to go on life support.
That's one pro.

He is brash and vain but like the businessman he is will surround himself with wise advisers and assistants. He will take advise from the Pentagon and other branches of government. I would hope he would fire all the crooked and greedy SOBs and put qualified people in their place. No cushy jobs for yes men and camp followers.
That's the other pro.


That's my solution. To operate the government the way it was originally intended and quickly got off track.

One thing is sure: He won't screw it up like the pretender in the Oval Office has done the past seven plus years. If he does..........
That's the con.

1. Yes, he isn't a politician, but he is fast becoming one isn't he?

2. So far he has not surrounded himself with smart people. His campaign managers have been caught unawares if important campaign strategies. At least one of them has made more than one bad decision. I'm not seeing good people chosen by him yet.

I agree that there is a chance that he won't be as bad as 0bama.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

Trump is not a politician. The founders were not politicians at the beginning and look at the model government they forged. They were mainly lawyers, doctors, farmers, business men, teachers and other professions. The founders did not intend that professional politicians run the government so the big mistake they made was not to have term limits for congressmen. That's how it started but once in power they gave greedy characters three goals to attain. 1. To be elected 2. To get rich 3. To stay re-elected until the have to go on life support.
That's one pro.

He is brash and vain but like the businessman he is will surround himself with wise advisers and assistants. He will take advise from the Pentagon and other branches of government. I would hope he would fire all the crooked and greedy SOBs and put qualified people in their place. No cushy jobs for yes men and camp followers.
That's the other pro.


That's my solution. To operate the government the way it was originally intended and quickly got off track.

One thing is sure: He won't screw it up like the pretender in the Oval Office has done the past seven plus years. If he does..........
That's the con.

1. Yes, he isn't a politician, but he is fast becoming one isn't he?

2. So far he has not surrounded himself with smart people. His campaign managers have been caught unawares if important campaign strategies. At least one of them has made more than one bad decision. I'm not seeing good people chosen by him yet.

I agree that there is a chance that he won't be as bad as 0bama.

You don't build a multi BILLION dollar business by surrounding yourself with fools. I mean we have tangible proof that he knows how find and elevate talent within his organization.

Either that, or he's more brilliant than we imagined and is able to run a company the size of his single handedly.

 

[PredFan]

If Trump is elected he will owe nothing to either party. I doubt he has any coherent program of his own and, even if he did, presidents cannot simply declare laws. What he does have are two things which may make him the president we need right now:

1. His goal is his own popularity with the people. His number one priority will be to bring things before the cameras that he can present as great deals and solutions that he has gotten for them.

2. The guy is a deal maker, no doubt about it, and if his primary performance shows anything, it is that he is great on TV and quick mentally.

We are going to have divided government no matter how the congressional elections play out because both parties are divided internally as well as bitterly divided from each other. In this climate, a skilled deal maker whose own agenda is to get a popular deal is the best sort of president we can hope for. No visionary leader is going to get to first base. That is a sad but true reality. A shrewd salesman is what will bring the most benefit to the people.

Good work. I agree with all of that. I have said before that his ego may not allow himself to be a crappy POTUS and you are correct about not having allegiances. 0ba has a huge ego as well but he's a horrible POTUS because of his allegiance to the liberal Democrat party.

 

[Never3ndr]

To many people in this country are expecting a perfect fit in an off the rack world. He looks good on us and we need to go with that.

I'm sorry, I can't agree with that. The one thing he doesn't look is good. However I don't give a fat rats ass what other countries think so that isn't a concideration either way for me.

How about this.

You should support him b/c there is little to no doubt that he will always put our country first. You can disagree with his individual policy choices, and I certainly don't agree with them all, you can even believe he will change his mind on certain of them, but I think he will ALWAYS put this country first.

Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, will always put Hillary Clinton first.

I disagree with this. Where is your evidence? If you look in the past all Trump has really done is put himself first. Look at some of his major policy pushes...changing our trade deals, and tightening our borders. Now, as a successful business man that markets to high end customers (meaning he generally can charge outrageous prices and get away with it), he certainly has enough leeway to only hire natural born Americans and refrain from outsourcing or trading with foreign nations, keeping all of his company's expenditures and dealing with strictly American corporations. Now, he'd likely have to eat some profit as he wouldn't be getting the best deals...but hey...America first right?

So, has he done this, to "keep America first"...nope. He keeps his pocketbook first. Why would he be doing any different if he gets in the oval office? He's shown repeatedly in the past to attempt to get policy pushed in his business' favor. Why, all of a sudden, would he now look to take office and use it for America's benefit rather than his own? We have zero evidence of him ever putting America first, but we have an overwhelming amount of him putting his pocketbook and himself first.

Now, I'm not saying Clinton is any better...because she isn't. But we should call a spade a spade here and not pretend it is anything else.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

To many people in this country are expecting a perfect fit in an off the rack world. He looks good on us and we need to go with that.

I'm sorry, I can't agree with that. The one thing he doesn't look is good. However I don't give a fat rats ass what other countries think so that isn't a concideration either way for me.

How about this.

You should support him b/c there is little to no doubt that he will always put our country first. You can disagree with his individual policy choices, and I certainly don't agree with them all, you can even believe he will change his mind on certain of them, but I think he will ALWAYS put this country first.

Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, will always put Hillary Clinton first.

I disagree with this. Where is your evidence? If you look in the past all Trump has really done is put himself first. Look at some of his major policy pushes...changing our trade deals, and tightening our borders. Now, as a successful business man that markets to high end customers (meaning he generally can charge outrageous prices and get away with it), he certainly has enough leeway to only hire natural born Americans and refrain from outsourcing or trading with foreign nations, keeping all of his company's expenditures and dealing with strictly American corporations. Now, he'd likely have to eat some profit as he wouldn't be getting the best deals...but hey...America first right?

So, has he done this, to "keep America first"...nope. He keeps his pocketbook first. Why would he be doing any different if he gets in the oval office? He's shown repeatedly in the past to attempt to get policy pushed in his business' favor. Why, all of a sudden, would he now look to take office and use it for America's benefit rather than his own? We have zero evidence of him ever putting America first, but we have an overwhelming amount of him putting his pocketbook and himself first.

Now, I'm not saying Clinton is any better...because she isn't. But we should call a spade a spade here and not pretend it is anything else.

Actually, what Trump has done is put his COMPANY first, which is what he should have been doing. Now, if he gets into politics that has to change. Well, it SHOULD change anyway.

Politicians have a different constituent than businessmen, but the principle of fighting for what matters is the same.


Or, are you suggesting that all along Trump should have been making decisions that were not in his own best interest to hel the country that he wasn't help run?

 

[PredFan]

To many people in this country are expecting a perfect fit in an off the rack world. He looks good on us and we need to go with that.

I'm sorry, I can't agree with that. The one thing he doesn't look is good. However I don't give a fat rats ass what other countries think so that isn't a concideration either way for me.

How about this.

You should support him b/c there is little to no doubt that he will always put our country first. You can disagree with his individual policy choices, and I certainly don't agree with them all, you can even believe he will change his mind on certain of them, but I think he will ALWAYS put this country first.

Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, will always put Hillary Clinton first.

I don't agree. He will put himself first. He has shown that in the primary.

Even if I believed what you say, how do I know that he knows how to best take care of the country. Ted Cruz knows history, law, the government, and the Constitution better than Trump does. There is no doubt at all that Cruz us Country First.

Like I said just prior, Trumps ego COULD make him try very hard to be the best POTUS we have ever had, and one can only hope he does. The only question is how much it is going to cost us?

 

[PredFan]

Here are my problems with Donald Trump:

1. Yes he knows business and it's a good thing, but I fear he will throw the baby out with the bath water.
2. I believe very strongly that Trump will betray all of you supporters in the end.
3. He is a liberal in his heart, and will advance many destructive liberal policies.

One additional thing, my inclination is the vote against Hillary in the general, but I am at this point, not 100% sure that I will.

CDZ - Alright Trump supporters, sell me.
1. At this point, I'm not sure we need the baby
2. Every politician betrays their supporters at some point, because of 2 things 1) No politician is going to support every policy view of every supporter and 2) no matter the promises we all know and understand that NO POTUS is going to single handily manage to get their entire agenda through. Though we sometimes forget that when we get upset that something wasn't accomplishment
3. He hasn't even lied about what he is. If you don't understand that he's running as a Republican out of necessity, that is not his fault. And besides, there is a reason Cruz is hooting and hollering about bathrooms and abortion and getting his ass kicked in primaries around the county. Time for conservatives to wake up, you are going to have to let some of the social issues go , that's the bottom line.

Yeah we need the baby. In this case the baby is our rights and freedoms, especially economic freedom. I understand that politicians do that, except that is, Ted Cruz, but I have seen no reason to believe that Trump will do any if it. Trumps reason for hi popularity is the promises that he is making. The wall, the immigrants, the trade deals, at least that is what people are telling me.

I don't think ANY of the candidates would , if you asked them, believe they are against freedom. So in that sense, no they aren't wanting to throw away the baby.

And Personally, I don't believe a wall will ever be built. Even if Trump were elected and 100% dead set on it, the POTUS simply doesn't have that kind of sole authority.

Hmmm, Trump has a history of not giving a shit about rights. He is very much pro eminent domain, and he wants to force companies to do things like come back to America. The freedom to conduct business as I see fit doesn't seem to sit well with him.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

To many people in this country are expecting a perfect fit in an off the rack world. He looks good on us and we need to go with that.

I'm sorry, I can't agree with that. The one thing he doesn't look is good. However I don't give a fat rats ass what other countries think so that isn't a concideration either way for me.

How about this.

You should support him b/c there is little to no doubt that he will always put our country first. You can disagree with his individual policy choices, and I certainly don't agree with them all, you can even believe he will change his mind on certain of them, but I think he will ALWAYS put this country first.

Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, will always put Hillary Clinton first.

I don't agree. He will put himself first. He has shown that in the primary.

Even if I believed what you say, how do I know that he knows how to best take care of the country. Ted Cruz knows history, law, the government, and the Constitution better than Trump does. There is no doubt at all that Cruz us Country First.

Like I said just prior, Trumps ego COULD make him try very hard to be the best POTUS we have ever had, and one can only hope he does. The only question is how much it is going to cost us?

Okay, so you're a Cruz fan wondering why you should get behind Trump.


Here's the long and short of it, because Cruz can't beat Hillary. PERIOD.

 

[PredFan]

Trump is not a politician. The founders were not politicians at the beginning and look at the model government they forged. They were mainly lawyers, doctors, farmers, business men, teachers and other professions. The founders did not intend that professional politicians run the government so the big mistake they made was not to have term limits for congressmen. That's how it started but once in power they gave greedy characters three goals to attain. 1. To be elected 2. To get rich 3. To stay re-elected until the have to go on life support.
That's one pro.

He is brash and vain but like the businessman he is will surround himself with wise advisers and assistants. He will take advise from the Pentagon and other branches of government. I would hope he would fire all the crooked and greedy SOBs and put qualified people in their place. No cushy jobs for yes men and camp followers.
That's the other pro.


That's my solution. To operate the government the way it was originally intended and quickly got off track.

One thing is sure: He won't screw it up like the pretender in the Oval Office has done the past seven plus years. If he does..........
That's the con.

1. Yes, he isn't a politician, but he is fast becoming one isn't he?

2. So far he has not surrounded himself with smart people. His campaign managers have been caught unawares if important campaign strategies. At least one of them has made more than one bad decision. I'm not seeing good people chosen by him yet.

I agree that there is a chance that he won't be as bad as 0bama.

You don't build a multi BILLION dollar business by surrounding yourself with fools. I mean we have tangible proof that he knows how find and elevate talent within his organization.

Either that, or he's more brilliant than we imagined and is able to run a company the size of his single handedly.

I hear you, but observation and reasoning tell me a much different thing.

 

[Never3ndr]

To many people in this country are expecting a perfect fit in an off the rack world. He looks good on us and we need to go with that.

I'm sorry, I can't agree with that. The one thing he doesn't look is good. However I don't give a fat rats ass what other countries think so that isn't a concideration either way for me.

How about this.

You should support him b/c there is little to no doubt that he will always put our country first. You can disagree with his individual policy choices, and I certainly don't agree with them all, you can even believe he will change his mind on certain of them, but I think he will ALWAYS put this country first.

Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, will always put Hillary Clinton first.

I disagree with this. Where is your evidence? If you look in the past all Trump has really done is put himself first. Look at some of his major policy pushes...changing our trade deals, and tightening our borders. Now, as a successful business man that markets to high end customers (meaning he generally can charge outrageous prices and get away with it), he certainly has enough leeway to only hire natural born Americans and refrain from outsourcing or trading with foreign nations, keeping all of his company's expenditures and dealing with strictly American corporations. Now, he'd likely have to eat some profit as he wouldn't be getting the best deals...but hey...America first right?

So, has he done this, to "keep America first"...nope. He keeps his pocketbook first. Why would he be doing any different if he gets in the oval office? He's shown repeatedly in the past to attempt to get policy pushed in his business' favor. Why, all of a sudden, would he now look to take office and use it for America's benefit rather than his own? We have zero evidence of him ever putting America first, but we have an overwhelming amount of him putting his pocketbook and himself first.

Now, I'm not saying Clinton is any better...because she isn't. But we should call a spade a spade here and not pretend it is anything else.

Actually, what Trump has done is put his COMPANY first, which is what he should have been doing. Now, if he gets into politics that has to change. Well, it SHOULD change anyway.

Politicians have a different constituent than businessmen, but the principle of fighting for what matters is the same.


Or, are you suggesting that all along Trump should have been making decisions that were not in his own best interest to hel the country that he wasn't help run?

I never said that Trump, as a businessman, shouldn't have been doing what he's been doing...because it works, and it works well. He's one hell of a business man. I'm actually going back to university right now to move into the business world and I have nothing but respect for him in that aspect.

On the other hand, he isn't running to be CEO of another corporation that I can vote for as a shareholder. He's running for president of the United States of America. I'm pointing out that has done nothing in the past to make us believe that he would actually do anything but keep benefiting himself (remember he owns his company...he gets a direct benefit from working solely in its interest). As a hyper successful businessman you can actually start going out of your way to take a hit from your profits to benefit Americans. He hasn't. Look at Elon Musk. That guy makes a lot of decisions that aren't solely in his company's benefit, but for the benefit of the greater good...take Tesla open sourcing their patents as a great example of that.

My point is that Trump has done nothing in the past to actually make anybody think that he would put America first. Now, his rhetoric all says that...but then again so does Hillary's rhetoric...are we also going to take her word for it when she's shown time and time again in the past that she puts her own interests first? If you really think that Trump would put America first then point to an actual case of why. Point to where Trump, in the past, has taken a big hit in order to benefit his country rather than himself. I am aware of no such thing, which is why I don't believe his rhetoric.

 

[PredFan]

To many people in this country are expecting a perfect fit in an off the rack world. He looks good on us and we need to go with that.

I'm sorry, I can't agree with that. The one thing he doesn't look is good. However I don't give a fat rats ass what other countries think so that isn't a concideration either way for me.

How about this.

You should support him b/c there is little to no doubt that he will always put our country first. You can disagree with his individual policy choices, and I certainly don't agree with them all, you can even believe he will change his mind on certain of them, but I think he will ALWAYS put this country first.

Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, will always put Hillary Clinton first.

I don't agree. He will put himself first. He has shown that in the primary.

Even if I believed what you say, how do I know that he knows how to best take care of the country. Ted Cruz knows history, law, the government, and the Constitution better than Trump does. There is no doubt at all that Cruz us Country First.

Like I said just prior, Trumps ego COULD make him try very hard to be the best POTUS we have ever had, and one can only hope he does. The only question is how much it is going to cost us?

Okay, so you're a Cruz fan wondering why you should get behind Trump.


Here's the long and short of it, because Cruz can't beat Hillary. PERIOD.

Cruz would destroy Hillary. I don't want to get off on a tangent here but after the first debate, Hillary would go down in flames. Cruz is 100 times smarter that that idiot and it would be very apparent.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

Here are my problems with Donald Trump:

1. Yes he knows business and it's a good thing, but I fear he will throw the baby out with the bath water.
2. I believe very strongly that Trump will betray all of you supporters in the end.
3. He is a liberal in his heart, and will advance many destructive liberal policies.

One additional thing, my inclination is the vote against Hillary in the general, but I am at this point, not 100% sure that I will.

CDZ - Alright Trump supporters, sell me.
1. At this point, I'm not sure we need the baby
2. Every politician betrays their supporters at some point, because of 2 things 1) No politician is going to support every policy view of every supporter and 2) no matter the promises we all know and understand that NO POTUS is going to single handily manage to get their entire agenda through. Though we sometimes forget that when we get upset that something wasn't accomplishment
3. He hasn't even lied about what he is. If you don't understand that he's running as a Republican out of necessity, that is not his fault. And besides, there is a reason Cruz is hooting and hollering about bathrooms and abortion and getting his ass kicked in primaries around the county. Time for conservatives to wake up, you are going to have to let some of the social issues go , that's the bottom line.

Yeah we need the baby. In this case the baby is our rights and freedoms, especially economic freedom. I understand that politicians do that, except that is, Ted Cruz, but I have seen no reason to believe that Trump will do any if it. Trumps reason for hi popularity is the promises that he is making. The wall, the immigrants, the trade deals, at least that is what people are telling me.

I don't think ANY of the candidates would , if you asked them, believe they are against freedom. So in that sense, no they aren't wanting to throw away the baby.

And Personally, I don't believe a wall will ever be built. Even if Trump were elected and 100% dead set on it, the POTUS simply doesn't have that kind of sole authority.

Hmmm, Trump has a history of not giving a shit about rights. He is very much pro eminent domain, and he wants to force companies to do things like come back to America. The freedom to conduct business as I see fit doesn't seem to sit well with him.

You're incorrect. Trump does not condone forcing any business to stay in the US. He DOES favor imposing a tarriff on products built by a company that leaves the US, but those companies are free to leave and pay those tarrifs.

And if your way of doing business is shitting on your US employees to save a few bucks, I have no problem with the government slapping you with a penalty.

If we are going to erase the $19T debt at any point, we are going to have come up with a new paradigm. Business as usual isn't going to get it done. That means taxes and penalties for companies that color outside of the lines as well as incentives for companies which do.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

To many people in this country are expecting a perfect fit in an off the rack world. He looks good on us and we need to go with that.

I'm sorry, I can't agree with that. The one thing he doesn't look is good. However I don't give a fat rats ass what other countries think so that isn't a concideration either way for me.

How about this.

You should support him b/c there is little to no doubt that he will always put our country first. You can disagree with his individual policy choices, and I certainly don't agree with them all, you can even believe he will change his mind on certain of them, but I think he will ALWAYS put this country first.

Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, will always put Hillary Clinton first.

I disagree with this. Where is your evidence? If you look in the past all Trump has really done is put himself first. Look at some of his major policy pushes...changing our trade deals, and tightening our borders. Now, as a successful business man that markets to high end customers (meaning he generally can charge outrageous prices and get away with it), he certainly has enough leeway to only hire natural born Americans and refrain from outsourcing or trading with foreign nations, keeping all of his company's expenditures and dealing with strictly American corporations. Now, he'd likely have to eat some profit as he wouldn't be getting the best deals...but hey...America first right?

So, has he done this, to "keep America first"...nope. He keeps his pocketbook first. Why would he be doing any different if he gets in the oval office? He's shown repeatedly in the past to attempt to get policy pushed in his business' favor. Why, all of a sudden, would he now look to take office and use it for America's benefit rather than his own? We have zero evidence of him ever putting America first, but we have an overwhelming amount of him putting his pocketbook and himself first.

Now, I'm not saying Clinton is any better...because she isn't. But we should call a spade a spade here and not pretend it is anything else.

Actually, what Trump has done is put his COMPANY first, which is what he should have been doing. Now, if he gets into politics that has to change. Well, it SHOULD change anyway.

Politicians have a different constituent than businessmen, but the principle of fighting for what matters is the same.


Or, are you suggesting that all along Trump should have been making decisions that were not in his own best interest to hel the country that he wasn't help run?

I never said that Trump, as a businessman, shouldn't have been doing what he's been doing...because it works, and it works well. He's one hell of a business man. I'm actually going back to university right now to move into the business world and I have nothing but respect for him in that aspect.

On the other hand, he isn't running to be CEO of another corporation that I can vote for as a shareholder. He's running for president of the United States of America. I'm pointing out that has done nothing in the past to make us believe that he would actually do anything but keep benefiting himself. As a hyper successful businessman you can actually start going out of your way to take a hit from your profits to benefit Americans. He hasn't. Look at Elon Musk. That guy makes a lot of decisions that aren't solely in his company's benefit, but for the benefit of the greater good...take Tesla open sourcing their patents as a great example of that.

My point is that Trump has done nothing in the past to actually make anybody think that he would put America first. Now, his rhetoric all says that...but then again so does Hillary's rhetoric...are we also going to take her word for it when she's shown time and time again in the past that she puts her own interests first? If you really think that Trump would put America first then point to an actual case of why. Point to where Trump, in the past, has taken a big hit in order to benefit his country rather than himself. I am aware of no such thing, which is why I don't believe his rhetoric.

Actually, POTUS is very analogous to CEO of a major company, and looked at in that light, as you have admitted he does what's best for the company.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Great thread. Thanks for the valuable input.

 

[Never3ndr]

I'm sorry, I can't agree with that. The one thing he doesn't look is good. However I don't give a fat rats ass what other countries think so that isn't a concideration either way for me.

How about this.

You should support him b/c there is little to no doubt that he will always put our country first. You can disagree with his individual policy choices, and I certainly don't agree with them all, you can even believe he will change his mind on certain of them, but I think he will ALWAYS put this country first.

Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, will always put Hillary Clinton first.

I disagree with this. Where is your evidence? If you look in the past all Trump has really done is put himself first. Look at some of his major policy pushes...changing our trade deals, and tightening our borders. Now, as a successful business man that markets to high end customers (meaning he generally can charge outrageous prices and get away with it), he certainly has enough leeway to only hire natural born Americans and refrain from outsourcing or trading with foreign nations, keeping all of his company's expenditures and dealing with strictly American corporations. Now, he'd likely have to eat some profit as he wouldn't be getting the best deals...but hey...America first right?

So, has he done this, to "keep America first"...nope. He keeps his pocketbook first. Why would he be doing any different if he gets in the oval office? He's shown repeatedly in the past to attempt to get policy pushed in his business' favor. Why, all of a sudden, would he now look to take office and use it for America's benefit rather than his own? We have zero evidence of him ever putting America first, but we have an overwhelming amount of him putting his pocketbook and himself first.

Now, I'm not saying Clinton is any better...because she isn't. But we should call a spade a spade here and not pretend it is anything else.

Actually, what Trump has done is put his COMPANY first, which is what he should have been doing. Now, if he gets into politics that has to change. Well, it SHOULD change anyway.

Politicians have a different constituent than businessmen, but the principle of fighting for what matters is the same.


Or, are you suggesting that all along Trump should have been making decisions that were not in his own best interest to hel the country that he wasn't help run?

I never said that Trump, as a businessman, shouldn't have been doing what he's been doing...because it works, and it works well. He's one hell of a business man. I'm actually going back to university right now to move into the business world and I have nothing but respect for him in that aspect.

On the other hand, he isn't running to be CEO of another corporation that I can vote for as a shareholder. He's running for president of the United States of America. I'm pointing out that has done nothing in the past to make us believe that he would actually do anything but keep benefiting himself. As a hyper successful businessman you can actually start going out of your way to take a hit from your profits to benefit Americans. He hasn't. Look at Elon Musk. That guy makes a lot of decisions that aren't solely in his company's benefit, but for the benefit of the greater good...take Tesla open sourcing their patents as a great example of that.

My point is that Trump has done nothing in the past to actually make anybody think that he would put America first. Now, his rhetoric all says that...but then again so does Hillary's rhetoric...are we also going to take her word for it when she's shown time and time again in the past that she puts her own interests first? If you really think that Trump would put America first then point to an actual case of why. Point to where Trump, in the past, has taken a big hit in order to benefit his country rather than himself. I am aware of no such thing, which is why I don't believe his rhetoric.

Actually, POTUS is very analogous to CEO of a major company, and looked at in that light, as you have admitted he does what's best for the company.

False. The President is generally going to get the same benefits from office regardless of how well or poorly America does. This is obviously not so for a CEO. The fact that you even suggested that they are similar is ludicrous (politics is not the same as business...hence why they are two totally separate fields of study). There are several differences but focusing solely on the self-interested difference it is a major one.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

How about this.

You should support him b/c there is little to no doubt that he will always put our country first. You can disagree with his individual policy choices, and I certainly don't agree with them all, you can even believe he will change his mind on certain of them, but I think he will ALWAYS put this country first.

Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, will always put Hillary Clinton first.

I disagree with this. Where is your evidence? If you look in the past all Trump has really done is put himself first. Look at some of his major policy pushes...changing our trade deals, and tightening our borders. Now, as a successful business man that markets to high end customers (meaning he generally can charge outrageous prices and get away with it), he certainly has enough leeway to only hire natural born Americans and refrain from outsourcing or trading with foreign nations, keeping all of his company's expenditures and dealing with strictly American corporations. Now, he'd likely have to eat some profit as he wouldn't be getting the best deals...but hey...America first right?

So, has he done this, to "keep America first"...nope. He keeps his pocketbook first. Why would he be doing any different if he gets in the oval office? He's shown repeatedly in the past to attempt to get policy pushed in his business' favor. Why, all of a sudden, would he now look to take office and use it for America's benefit rather than his own? We have zero evidence of him ever putting America first, but we have an overwhelming amount of him putting his pocketbook and himself first.

Now, I'm not saying Clinton is any better...because she isn't. But we should call a spade a spade here and not pretend it is anything else.

Actually, what Trump has done is put his COMPANY first, which is what he should have been doing. Now, if he gets into politics that has to change. Well, it SHOULD change anyway.

Politicians have a different constituent than businessmen, but the principle of fighting for what matters is the same.


Or, are you suggesting that all along Trump should have been making decisions that were not in his own best interest to hel the country that he wasn't help run?

I never said that Trump, as a businessman, shouldn't have been doing what he's been doing...because it works, and it works well. He's one hell of a business man. I'm actually going back to university right now to move into the business world and I have nothing but respect for him in that aspect.

On the other hand, he isn't running to be CEO of another corporation that I can vote for as a shareholder. He's running for president of the United States of America. I'm pointing out that has done nothing in the past to make us believe that he would actually do anything but keep benefiting himself. As a hyper successful businessman you can actually start going out of your way to take a hit from your profits to benefit Americans. He hasn't. Look at Elon Musk. That guy makes a lot of decisions that aren't solely in his company's benefit, but for the benefit of the greater good...take Tesla open sourcing their patents as a great example of that.

My point is that Trump has done nothing in the past to actually make anybody think that he would put America first. Now, his rhetoric all says that...but then again so does Hillary's rhetoric...are we also going to take her word for it when she's shown time and time again in the past that she puts her own interests first? If you really think that Trump would put America first then point to an actual case of why. Point to where Trump, in the past, has taken a big hit in order to benefit his country rather than himself. I am aware of no such thing, which is why I don't believe his rhetoric.

Actually, POTUS is very analogous to CEO of a major company, and looked at in that light, as you have admitted he does what's best for the company.

False. The President is generally going to get the same benefits from office regardless of how well or poorly America does. This is obviously not so for a CEO. The fact that you even suggested that they are similar is ludicrous (politics is not the same as business...hence why they are two totally separate fields of study). There are several differences but focusing solely on the self-interested difference it is a major one.

It's not as different as you make it seem.

The motives for getting in each perspective field aren't even all the at different.

Getting into politics to feed your own ego, doesn't automatically mean you will be a failure.

 

[Never3ndr]

I disagree with this. Where is your evidence? If you look in the past all Trump has really done is put himself first. Look at some of his major policy pushes...changing our trade deals, and tightening our borders. Now, as a successful business man that markets to high end customers (meaning he generally can charge outrageous prices and get away with it), he certainly has enough leeway to only hire natural born Americans and refrain from outsourcing or trading with foreign nations, keeping all of his company's expenditures and dealing with strictly American corporations. Now, he'd likely have to eat some profit as he wouldn't be getting the best deals...but hey...America first right?

So, has he done this, to "keep America first"...nope. He keeps his pocketbook first. Why would he be doing any different if he gets in the oval office? He's shown repeatedly in the past to attempt to get policy pushed in his business' favor. Why, all of a sudden, would he now look to take office and use it for America's benefit rather than his own? We have zero evidence of him ever putting America first, but we have an overwhelming amount of him putting his pocketbook and himself first.

Now, I'm not saying Clinton is any better...because she isn't. But we should call a spade a spade here and not pretend it is anything else.

Actually, what Trump has done is put his COMPANY first, which is what he should have been doing. Now, if he gets into politics that has to change. Well, it SHOULD change anyway.

Politicians have a different constituent than businessmen, but the principle of fighting for what matters is the same.


Or, are you suggesting that all along Trump should have been making decisions that were not in his own best interest to hel the country that he wasn't help run?

I never said that Trump, as a businessman, shouldn't have been doing what he's been doing...because it works, and it works well. He's one hell of a business man. I'm actually going back to university right now to move into the business world and I have nothing but respect for him in that aspect.

On the other hand, he isn't running to be CEO of another corporation that I can vote for as a shareholder. He's running for president of the United States of America. I'm pointing out that has done nothing in the past to make us believe that he would actually do anything but keep benefiting himself. As a hyper successful businessman you can actually start going out of your way to take a hit from your profits to benefit Americans. He hasn't. Look at Elon Musk. That guy makes a lot of decisions that aren't solely in his company's benefit, but for the benefit of the greater good...take Tesla open sourcing their patents as a great example of that.

My point is that Trump has done nothing in the past to actually make anybody think that he would put America first. Now, his rhetoric all says that...but then again so does Hillary's rhetoric...are we also going to take her word for it when she's shown time and time again in the past that she puts her own interests first? If you really think that Trump would put America first then point to an actual case of why. Point to where Trump, in the past, has taken a big hit in order to benefit his country rather than himself. I am aware of no such thing, which is why I don't believe his rhetoric.

Actually, POTUS is very analogous to CEO of a major company, and looked at in that light, as you have admitted he does what's best for the company.

False. The President is generally going to get the same benefits from office regardless of how well or poorly America does. This is obviously not so for a CEO. The fact that you even suggested that they are similar is ludicrous (politics is not the same as business...hence why they are two totally separate fields of study). There are several differences but focusing solely on the self-interested difference it is a major one.

It's not as different as you make it seem.

The motives for getting in each perspective field aren't even all the at different.

Getting into politics to feed your own ego, doesn't automatically mean you will be a failure.

I agree. However, remember that we originally began this discussion debating the particular point on whether Trump would be self-serving or not. I've provided a lot of points as to why I believe that there is more than enough evidence to reasonably assume Trump would be self serving, however, you really haven't provided any reasons for why Trump would put America first rather than himself first other than that...he should do it in theory.

Please provide a reason for your belief that Trump would put America first. Please provide historical evidence, or actions that he has performed that has led you to believe that he will put America rather than himself first. I've done no less for you point towards why I believe the opposite. Please extend me the same kindness I've extended to you by providing a reason for your beliefs rather than just simply stating that you believe something. You can be self interested by still act with the interests of your nation before your own, that goes for both businessmen and politicians. However, Trump has done nothing in the past to make a reasonable person believe that he should be included in that group.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

Actually, what Trump has done is put his COMPANY first, which is what he should have been doing. Now, if he gets into politics that has to change. Well, it SHOULD change anyway.

Politicians have a different constituent than businessmen, but the principle of fighting for what matters is the same.


Or, are you suggesting that all along Trump should have been making decisions that were not in his own best interest to hel the country that he wasn't help run?

I never said that Trump, as a businessman, shouldn't have been doing what he's been doing...because it works, and it works well. He's one hell of a business man. I'm actually going back to university right now to move into the business world and I have nothing but respect for him in that aspect.

On the other hand, he isn't running to be CEO of another corporation that I can vote for as a shareholder. He's running for president of the United States of America. I'm pointing out that has done nothing in the past to make us believe that he would actually do anything but keep benefiting himself. As a hyper successful businessman you can actually start going out of your way to take a hit from your profits to benefit Americans. He hasn't. Look at Elon Musk. That guy makes a lot of decisions that aren't solely in his company's benefit, but for the benefit of the greater good...take Tesla open sourcing their patents as a great example of that.

My point is that Trump has done nothing in the past to actually make anybody think that he would put America first. Now, his rhetoric all says that...but then again so does Hillary's rhetoric...are we also going to take her word for it when she's shown time and time again in the past that she puts her own interests first? If you really think that Trump would put America first then point to an actual case of why. Point to where Trump, in the past, has taken a big hit in order to benefit his country rather than himself. I am aware of no such thing, which is why I don't believe his rhetoric.

Actually, POTUS is very analogous to CEO of a major company, and looked at in that light, as you have admitted he does what's best for the company.

False. The President is generally going to get the same benefits from office regardless of how well or poorly America does. This is obviously not so for a CEO. The fact that you even suggested that they are similar is ludicrous (politics is not the same as business...hence why they are two totally separate fields of study). There are several differences but focusing solely on the self-interested difference it is a major one.

It's not as different as you make it seem.

The motives for getting in each perspective field aren't even all the at different.

Getting into politics to feed your own ego, doesn't automatically mean you will be a failure.

I agree. However, remember that we originally began this discussion debating the particular point on whether Trump would be self-serving or not. I've provided a lot of points as to why I believe that there is more than enough evidence to reasonably assume Trump would be self serving, however, you really haven't provided any reasons for why Trump would put America first rather than himself first other than that...he should do it in theory.

Please provide a reason for your belief. Please provide historical evidence, or actions that he has performed that has led you to believe that he will put America rather than himself first. I've done no less for you point towards why I believe the opposite. Please extend me the same kindness I've extended to you by providing a reason for your beliefs rather than just simply stating that you believe something.

You're asking me to provide historical evidence that leads me to believe he'd put the country first and I've done that. I've shown that he has ALWAYS put the organization that he has been the head of first. What you REALLY want is evidence of him putting the US first when he was not in a position that desired him to put the US first, and no I can not do that.

Completely the opposite of Hillary, who has several times been in positions where she was expected to put the USA first and didn't, Trump has NEVER been in a position where he should have put country first.

There is NO historical reason for Trump to have had ever put country first. So , you can't knock him for not having done so.

 

[LoneLaugher]

I never said that Trump, as a businessman, shouldn't have been doing what he's been doing...because it works, and it works well. He's one hell of a business man. I'm actually going back to university right now to move into the business world and I have nothing but respect for him in that aspect.

On the other hand, he isn't running to be CEO of another corporation that I can vote for as a shareholder. He's running for president of the United States of America. I'm pointing out that has done nothing in the past to make us believe that he would actually do anything but keep benefiting himself. As a hyper successful businessman you can actually start going out of your way to take a hit from your profits to benefit Americans. He hasn't. Look at Elon Musk. That guy makes a lot of decisions that aren't solely in his company's benefit, but for the benefit of the greater good...take Tesla open sourcing their patents as a great example of that.

My point is that Trump has done nothing in the past to actually make anybody think that he would put America first. Now, his rhetoric all says that...but then again so does Hillary's rhetoric...are we also going to take her word for it when she's shown time and time again in the past that she puts her own interests first? If you really think that Trump would put America first then point to an actual case of why. Point to where Trump, in the past, has taken a big hit in order to benefit his country rather than himself. I am aware of no such thing, which is why I don't believe his rhetoric.

Actually, POTUS is very analogous to CEO of a major company, and looked at in that light, as you have admitted he does what's best for the company.

False. The President is generally going to get the same benefits from office regardless of how well or poorly America does. This is obviously not so for a CEO. The fact that you even suggested that they are similar is ludicrous (politics is not the same as business...hence why they are two totally separate fields of study). There are several differences but focusing solely on the self-interested difference it is a major one.

It's not as different as you make it seem.

The motives for getting in each perspective field aren't even all the at different.

Getting into politics to feed your own ego, doesn't automatically mean you will be a failure.

I agree. However, remember that we originally began this discussion debating the particular point on whether Trump would be self-serving or not. I've provided a lot of points as to why I believe that there is more than enough evidence to reasonably assume Trump would be self serving, however, you really haven't provided any reasons for why Trump would put America first rather than himself first other than that...he should do it in theory.

Please provide a reason for your belief. Please provide historical evidence, or actions that he has performed that has led you to believe that he will put America rather than himself first. I've done no less for you point towards why I believe the opposite. Please extend me the same kindness I've extended to you by providing a reason for your beliefs rather than just simply stating that you believe something.

You're asking me to provide historical evidence that leads me to believe he'd put the country first and I've done that. I've shown that he has ALWAYS put the organization that he has been the head of first. What you REALLY want is evidence of him putting the US first when he was not in a position that desired him to put the US first, and no I can not do that.

Completely the opposite of Hillary, who has several times been in positions where she was expected to put the USA first and didn't, Trump has NEVER been in a position where he should have put country first.

There is NO historical reason for Trump to have had ever put country first. So , you can't knock him for not having done so.

Every American has opportunities to put this country first. Those with resources moreso than those without.