Allowing Gays in the Military Would Be Unfair and Hurt Troop Morale

[CurveLight]

I will investigated the source of this poll as I did the other one only to get you to see the truth. Your persistance in defnding homosexual activism needs to be put in the spotlight, perhaps it says a lot about you personally. What could it be that you're hiding from us here?

now now SFC... you really don't want to go there, do you? Quinnipiac is a pretty well regarded poll... but I guess if you don't like the results, it is your best defense to attack it, and to backhandedly besmirch me while you're at it. I am not gay. I am very much a heterosexual... but I have several close friends who ARE gay - one of which who came out of the closet quite late in life - and I have a great deal of sympathy for their plight. As I said, I did serve with several sailors who I was fairly certain were gay, and they did a great job, and did not damage unit esprit de corps in any way.

And again... this debate is one that is being undertaken within the civilian command structure... the Secretary of Defense and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs both consider DADT to be against the very nature of our democracy and are moving to repeal it.

You have a choice: either get on board and enthusiastically support your chain of command, or get the fuck out.... and like I said, either decision would be a plus for the military.

Civilians using their agenda to conduct military business without consulting with commanders and NCOs is the reason this current military is a cluster fart, You don't learn from anything do you?


Not to long before the Iraq war, it was said that former Army General Eric Shinseki told Donald Rumsfeld that the mission he(Rumsfeld) wanted in Iraq would require more troops and a long occupation to accomplish its old, but just like the micro-managing civilian jackass he was Rumsfeld ignored Shinseki and all the other experienced generals and forced them out of the military and did the exact opposite which created the quagmire in Iraq. After so many lost lives they ended using "surges" to solve the problem till it got so damn bad Rumsfeld had to go. Thats what happens when stupid civilians ignore officers and NCOs do what they feel is best with a set of crony "yessir" generals.


Don'tr sit up here and run off at the damn mouth about "civilian" authority over the military you retard, because if they don't cooperate in some way with those in uniform in doing assessments a debacle is imminent. Its rare that they act without taking into consideration what the troops say.

Rumsfeld didn't ignore shinseki out of ignorance you dumbass. He did it to fulfill the goal of justifying a long term military occupation (read: permanent bases.)

 

[Bass v 2.0]

Curvelight's jackass logic: Anyone NCO in the military who doesn't agree with his pro-faggot agenda is impersonating an NCO which implies that most of the NCOs in the military or a good portion of them are homophobic NCO impersonators. Most of the NCOs need to go to jail then.

I'm still wondering what Reservist outfit of the Air Force was so fucked up that they took a malingering, pro racist, anti gay dipshit like you?

Did they crash all their jets and were forced to be sweepers on the runway?

Shut the hell up you stupid faggoty, piece of sailor trash. You've been running that same "malingering rservist" BS for the last year, find something and piss off jackass.

 

[Bass v 2.0]

now now SFC... you really don't want to go there, do you? Quinnipiac is a pretty well regarded poll... but I guess if you don't like the results, it is your best defense to attack it, and to backhandedly besmirch me while you're at it. I am not gay. I am very much a heterosexual... but I have several close friends who ARE gay - one of which who came out of the closet quite late in life - and I have a great deal of sympathy for their plight. As I said, I did serve with several sailors who I was fairly certain were gay, and they did a great job, and did not damage unit esprit de corps in any way.

And again... this debate is one that is being undertaken within the civilian command structure... the Secretary of Defense and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs both consider DADT to be against the very nature of our democracy and are moving to repeal it.

You have a choice: either get on board and enthusiastically support your chain of command, or get the fuck out.... and like I said, either decision would be a plus for the military.

Civilians using their agenda to conduct military business without consulting with commanders and NCOs is the reason this current military is a cluster fart, You don't learn from anything do you?


Not to long before the Iraq war, it was said that former Army General Eric Shinseki told Donald Rumsfeld that the mission he(Rumsfeld) wanted in Iraq would require more troops and a long occupation to accomplish its old, but just like the micro-managing civilian jackass he was Rumsfeld ignored Shinseki and all the other experienced generals and forced them out of the military and did the exact opposite which created the quagmire in Iraq. After so many lost lives they ended using "surges" to solve the problem till it got so damn bad Rumsfeld had to go. Thats what happens when stupid civilians ignore officers and NCOs do what they feel is best with a set of crony "yessir" generals.


Don'tr sit up here and run off at the damn mouth about "civilian" authority over the military you retard, because if they don't cooperate in some way with those in uniform in doing assessments a debacle is imminent. Its rare that they act without taking into consideration what the troops say.

Rumsfeld didn't ignore shinseki out of ignorance you dumbass. He did it to fulfill the goal of justifying a long term military occupation (read: permanent bases.)

Nobody gives a damn why he did it, the point is that he messed up by not listening.

 

[bodecea]

Allowing Gays in the Military Would Be Unfair and Hurt Troop Morale - US News and World Report

This link touched upon some of the objections I've raised and I will posted them

The new "nondiscrimination" law would affect all military branches and communities, including Army and Marine infantry, special operations, Navy SEALs, and submarines. Unlike workers who return home at night, military personnel must accept living conditions that involve "forced intimacy," with little or no privacy. This would be tantamount to forcing female soldiers to share private quarters with men—a situation that would be unacceptable to the majority of military women even if misconduct never occurred. Stated in gender-neutral terms, the new law would require military persons to accept exposure to persons who may be sexually attracted to them.

As for us in the Army, how do we feel about it the possible repeal of DADT?

In the 2008 Military Times Poll, 58 percent of 2,000 active-duty subscribers said they opposed repeal of current policy—for the fourth year in a row. Responses to a new survey question found that if Congress repealed the 1993 law, almost 10 percent would not re-enlist, and an additional 14 percent would consider ending their careers. Many first-termers normally leave, but the loss of even a few thousand careerists in communities, grades, and skills that are not quickly or easily replaceable would come at a crippling cost—especially when we are at war and trying to grow the Army and Marine Corps.

Count me as one of those who would end their career if forced acceptance of the one sided homosexual agenda were forced upon me, I refuse to be an advocate of anyone's agenda.


Who's really getting discharged more, gays under DADT or others?

Honorable discharges of gays who were misled about eligibility to serve are far fewer than losses due to pregnancy or weight standard violations. Clarify the meaning of the law, and such discharges could drop to near zero. There is no national security argument for legislation that would undermine recruiting, retention, and readiness in the all-volunteer force.

DADT really hurts the military more than any other people discharged, is that what that obstinate Navy fellow said earlier? Maybe he should reconsider.

A distinguished group of retired flag and general officers recently delivered to Obama and Congress a statement supporting the 1993 law, signed by more than 1,000 retired officers, including 51 of four-star rank. Noting that it "protect good order, discipline, and morale in the unique environment of the military," the officers wrote, "As a matter of national security, we urge you to support the 1993 law regarding homosexuals in the military, and to oppose any legislative, judicial, or administrative effort to repeal or invalidate the law."

A whooping 51 retired four-stars wrote Obama to that he should support DADT, this combined with the 58% of active duty subscribers to the Army Times says a lot about what servicemembers really think, leave it to Fathertime and he will say all of these people are homophobic active duty and retired military, but is that really the case? I leave it for each and every individual to decide for themselves.

Goodbye. Don't let the door hit you on your way out.

 

[rdean]

In the meantime, we have to lose someone such as Lt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach, an F-15E Strike Eagle pilot, the first Air Force pilot in the air after the 9/11 attacks, who also earned nine Air Medals, including one for valor for assaulting an Iraqi ambush position while under heavy anti-aircraft fire during the first days of the invasion.

An anonymous person outed him to the military. He didn't out himself.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/milit...ed-gens-to-build-a-case-against-the-gays.html

Nothing like throwing out your "best" and replacing them with felons. I finally get it. Thanks, Republicans.

This is a spurious claim, what facts do you to back this up? The military isn't faggots discharged under DADT with felons, don't make emotional charged , jackass claims to promote your faggot agenda, you're a liar and the Bass challenges you to back this claim up.

Army, Marines give waivers to more felons

Recruits were allowed to enlist after having been convicted of crimes including assault, burglary, drug possession and making terrorist threats.

Army, Marines give waivers to more felons - CNN.com

WASHINGTON - Under pressure to meet combat needs, the Army and Marine Corps brought in significantly more recruits with felony convictions last year than in 2006, including some with manslaughter and sex crime convictions.

Army, Marines enlisting more felons - Military- msnbc.com

Gidding was sentenced to five months in jail and three years probation, but he never served his time. Instead, he shipped out with his unit on active duty.
After arriving in Kuwait, Bob didn't even bother to hide his felony status. According to two other soldiers, he told the entire group and commanding officer about his conviction.

Local Felon Slips Past Military Regulations - cbs5.com

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In the meantime, we have to lose someone such as Lt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach, an F-15E Strike Eagle pilot, the first Air Force pilot in the air after the 9/11 attacks, who also earned nine Air Medals, including one for valor for assaulting an Iraqi ambush position while under heavy anti-aircraft fire during the first days of the invasion.
An anonymous person outed him to the military. He didn't out himself.

Lt. Dan Choi, 28, who majored in Arabic language at West Point
"I have never, ever done anything homosexual while on duty and I never engaged in heterosexual conduct while on duty because the army is not about sexual anything," he said. "I had never had a boyfriend or girlfriend because of 'Don't Ask Don't Tell.'"

Knights Out is an organization of West Point Alumni
Our members include former West Point professors, Rhodes Scholars, decorated combat veterans from the Vietnam War, Iraq and Afghanistan, peacekeepers who served in Haiti and Bosnia, men and women from the first co-ed class (1980), an ordained minister, and many others who are coming out from their silence to serve their country in a new way.

A study group of Flag and General Officers which took a year to assess all of the evidence on "don't ask, don't tell" found that commanders in Iraq are ignoring the policy and choosing to keep their teams together rather than firing loyal gay troops. A recent Military Times poll confirms that many commanders know of gays and lesbians serving in their units, but choose not to discharge them.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/milit...ed-gens-to-build-a-case-against-the-gays.html

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Nasty ass Bass has to kiss my........................

 

[bodecea]

'Stated in gender-neutral terms, the new law would require military persons to accept exposure to persons who may be sexually attracted to them."
So? Oh no he/she may be fantasizing about them, this harms the fantasized person ... how?

"Count me as one of those who would end their career if forced acceptance of the one sided homosexual agenda were forced upon me, I refuse to be an advocate of anyone's agenda."

Oh cut the bullshit, it won't force you to do anything. You can still believe whatever you want about gays you'd just have to have some openly gay coworkers (which you may encounter IN EVERY OTHER JOB).

The rest of your post is ad populum (appeal to majority) or appeal to authority fallacies.

So you're in favor of disregarding and ignoring the concerns of heterosexual servicemembers who uncomfortable and untrustworthy of openly gay servicemembers? You've shown that you really care about what hurts the military.

Women Veterans thruout the U.S. are laughing at you right now.

 

[bodecea]

Homosexuals have to behave differently and are not allowed to speak of the same things publically as straights. A straight male can show up for PT one day and talk to his buddies about what he and his girlfriend or wife did that weekend. A gay male cannot do the same about his boyfriend. The policy forces these men and women to live a double life.

No one in the Army is allowed to publicly discuss their sex life, especially when it involves people in their unit, that also destroys unit cohesion and its unprofessional. Whatever soldiers discuss privately among themselves is another matter.

Life in the Army is not going to be fair to some people but thats just the way it is, you either adapt and obey or move out.

It is statements like that that make me seriously wonder if you are really in the military.

I mean....really.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Curvelight's jackass logic: Anyone NCO in the military who doesn't agree with his pro-faggot agenda is impersonating an NCO which implies that most of the NCOs in the military or a good portion of them are homophobic NCO impersonators. Most of the NCOs need to go to jail then.

I'm still wondering what Reservist outfit of the Air Force was so fucked up that they took a malingering, pro racist, anti gay dipshit like you?

Did they crash all their jets and were forced to be sweepers on the runway?

Shut the hell up you stupid faggoty, piece of sailor trash. You've been running that same "malingering rservist" BS for the last year, find something and piss off jackass.

Truth hurts eh?

Guess that's why a pussified coward such as yourself is so against gays.

 

[ABikerSailor]

By the way Bass Hole.....I hope that you have kids. I hope you have many of them.

I also hope they all end up gay and want to join the military.

They'd probably serve with more distinction than you ever could.

 

[Bass v 2.0]

In the meantime, we have to lose someone such as Lt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach, an F-15E Strike Eagle pilot, the first Air Force pilot in the air after the 9/11 attacks, who also earned nine Air Medals, including one for valor for assaulting an Iraqi ambush position while under heavy anti-aircraft fire during the first days of the invasion.

An anonymous person outed him to the military. He didn't out himself.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/milit...ed-gens-to-build-a-case-against-the-gays.html

Nothing like throwing out your "best" and replacing them with felons. I finally get it. Thanks, Republicans.

This is a spurious claim, what facts do you to back this up? The military isn't faggots discharged under DADT with felons, don't make emotional charged , jackass claims to promote your faggot agenda, you're a liar and the Bass challenges you to back this claim up.

Army, Marines give waivers to more felons

Recruits were allowed to enlist after having been convicted of crimes including assault, burglary, drug possession and making terrorist threats.

Army, Marines give waivers to more felons - CNN.com

WASHINGTON - Under pressure to meet combat needs, the Army and Marine Corps brought in significantly more recruits with felony convictions last year than in 2006, including some with manslaughter and sex crime convictions.

Army, Marines enlisting more felons - Military- msnbc.com

Gidding was sentenced to five months in jail and three years probation, but he never served his time. Instead, he shipped out with his unit on active duty.
After arriving in Kuwait, Bob didn't even bother to hide his felony status. According to two other soldiers, he told the entire group and commanding officer about his conviction.

Local Felon Slips Past Military Regulations - cbs5.com

-------------------------------------------------------------

In the meantime, we have to lose someone such as Lt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach, an F-15E Strike Eagle pilot, the first Air Force pilot in the air after the 9/11 attacks, who also earned nine Air Medals, including one for valor for assaulting an Iraqi ambush position while under heavy anti-aircraft fire during the first days of the invasion.
An anonymous person outed him to the military. He didn't out himself.

Lt. Dan Choi, 28, who majored in Arabic language at West Point
"I have never, ever done anything homosexual while on duty and I never engaged in heterosexual conduct while on duty because the army is not about sexual anything," he said. "I had never had a boyfriend or girlfriend because of 'Don't Ask Don't Tell.'"

Knights Out is an organization of West Point Alumni
Our members include former West Point professors, Rhodes Scholars, decorated combat veterans from the Vietnam War, Iraq and Afghanistan, peacekeepers who served in Haiti and Bosnia, men and women from the first co-ed class (1980), an ordained minister, and many others who are coming out from their silence to serve their country in a new way.

A study group of Flag and General Officers which took a year to assess all of the evidence on "don't ask, don't tell" found that commanders in Iraq are ignoring the policy and choosing to keep their teams together rather than firing loyal gay troops. A recent Military Times poll confirms that many commanders know of gays and lesbians serving in their units, but choose not to discharge them.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/milit...ed-gens-to-build-a-case-against-the-gays.html

-----------------------------------------------------

Nasty ass Bass has to kiss my........................

Excuse the Bass but he hasn't seen any evidence of the military using felons to replace linguists and pilots, especially since both require a security clearance that they most definitely would not receive because of their felonies. Faggots aren't only the ones kicked out for breaking the rules, so you'll have to make a better case than what you've just posted.

 

[Bass v 2.0]

By the way Bass Hole.....I hope that you have kids. I hope you have many of them.

I also hope they all end up gay and want to join the military.

They'd probably serve with more distinction than you ever could.

Wishing somebody's kids to fags is an attempted insult, you should keep your family biz to yourself instead of projecting. The lengths you're going through to defend your faggot agenda is sickening, hoping somebody's children to be faggots is not a way to promote your agenda.

 

[Bass v 2.0]

I'm still wondering what Reservist outfit of the Air Force was so fucked up that they took a malingering, pro racist, anti gay dipshit like you?

Did they crash all their jets and were forced to be sweepers on the runway?

Shut the hell up you stupid faggoty, piece of sailor trash. You've been running that same "malingering rservist" BS for the last year, find something and piss off jackass.

Truth hurts eh?

Guess that's why a pussified coward such as yourself is so against gays.

Talk is cheap over the net and no one is impressed by your school boy childish insults you faggot, grow up.

 

[Article 15]

Homosexuals have to behave differently and are not allowed to speak of the same things publically as straights. A straight male can show up for PT one day and talk to his buddies about what he and his girlfriend or wife did that weekend. A gay male cannot do the same about his boyfriend. The policy forces these men and women to live a double life.

No one in the Army is allowed to publicly discuss their sex life, especially when it involves people in their unit, that also destroys unit cohesion and its unprofessional. Whatever soldiers discuss privately among themselves is another matter.

Life in the Army is not going to be fair to some people but thats just the way it is, you either adapt and obey or move out.

It is statements like that that make me seriously wonder if you are really in the military.

I mean....really.

According to him he's "all business" in the Army

 

[Bass v 2.0]

Homosexuals have to behave differently and are not allowed to speak of the same things publically as straights. A straight male can show up for PT one day and talk to his buddies about what he and his girlfriend or wife did that weekend. A gay male cannot do the same about his boyfriend. The policy forces these men and women to live a double life.

No one in the Army is allowed to publicly discuss their sex life, especially when it involves people in their unit, that also destroys unit cohesion and its unprofessional. Whatever soldiers discuss privately among themselves is another matter.

Life in the Army is not going to be fair to some people but thats just the way it is, you either adapt and obey or move out.

It is statements like that that make me seriously wonder if you are really in the military.

I mean....really.

Its is considered highly inappropiate and disrespectful to discuss the sexual lives in the work place, mainly because it also involves talking about the partner involved without their knowledge, only someone who is not professional with no consideration of others would do that in the working place, perhaps you don't understand how the military works.

 

[Article 15]

No one in the Army is allowed to publicly discuss their sex life, especially when it involves people in their unit, that also destroys unit cohesion and its unprofessional. Whatever soldiers discuss privately among themselves is another matter.

Life in the Army is not going to be fair to some people but thats just the way it is, you either adapt and obey or move out.

It is statements like that that make me seriously wonder if you are really in the military.

I mean....really.

Its is considered highly inappropiate and disrespectful to discuss the sexual lives in the work place, mainly because it also involves talking about the partner involved without their knowledge, only someone who is not professional with no consideration of others would do that in the working place, perhaps you don't understand how the military works.

"I went with my girlfriend to visit her parents last weekend."

A sex life has just been discussed.

 

[SFC Ollie]

By the way Bass Hole.....I hope that you have kids. I hope you have many of them.

I also hope they all end up gay and want to join the military.

They'd probably serve with more distinction than you ever could.

Wishing somebody's kids to fags is an attempted insult, you should keep your family biz to yourself instead of projecting. The lengths you're going through to defend your faggot agenda is sickening, hoping somebody#s children to be faggots is not a way to promote your agenda.

I would definitely report the kids comment to a mod, that is against all the rules. But then gaybiker likes to break rules.

 

[Article 15]

By the way Bass Hole.....I hope that you have kids. I hope you have many of them.

I also hope they all end up gay and want to join the military.

They'd probably serve with more distinction than you ever could.

Wishing somebody's kids to fags is an attempted insult, you should keep your family biz to yourself instead of projecting. The lengths you're going through to defend your faggot agenda is sickening, hoping somebody#s children to be faggots is not a way to promote your agenda.

I would definitely report the kids comment to a mod, that is against all the rules. But then gaybiker likes to break rules.

Wishing someone to have imaginary gay kids to illustrate a point isn't attacking someone's family.

 

[Bass v 2.0]

By the way Bass Hole.....I hope that you have kids. I hope you have many of them.

I also hope they all end up gay and want to join the military.

They'd probably serve with more distinction than you ever could.

Wishing somebody's kids to fags is an attempted insult, you should keep your family biz to yourself instead of projecting. The lengths you're going through to defend your faggot agenda is sickening, hoping somebody#s children to be faggots is not a way to promote your agenda.

I would definitely report the kids comment to a mod, that is against all the rules. But then gaybiker likes to break rules.

What can we say? Bikerfailure has proven himself to be the most professional paper pushing squid every to wear the Navy uniform, it reflects in how he defends his arguments. At first he uses child anal rape as an insult and now he wishes people's children to be gay, just because people disagree with his pro-sodomite agenda.

 

[Article 15]

"My wife and I are looking for a new place to live. Our place is too crowded for us and both kids."

A sex life has just been discussed.

 

[Bass v 2.0]

Wishing somebody's kids to fags is an attempted insult, you should keep your family biz to yourself instead of projecting. The lengths you're going through to defend your faggot agenda is sickening, hoping somebody#s children to be faggots is not a way to promote your agenda.

I would definitely report the kids comment to a mod, that is against all the rules. But then gaybiker likes to break rules.

Wishing someone to have imaginary gay kids to illustrate a point isn't attacking someone's family.

So what is it then, a well wished compliment? When people support a gay agenda they let anything slide.