Agree or Disagree?

[theunbubba]

I agree in part. I think his treaty provision went too far when it said "in NO sense."

Given the First Amendment, I agree that it is not founded AS a Christian nation -- or as a Jewish Nation -- or as a Deist Nation -- or as a Muslim Nation -- etc. Freedom of Religion means that no one religion is dominant or favored.

On the other hand, there IS a sense in which the founding of the Republic was premised -- at least in part -- upon our Judeo-Christian roots.

I can't wait to see how many people disagree with him. And why.

It would not have been constructed in this way without the founders being Christians. Muslims would never have come up with this type of government structure. Nor would Buddhists or any other group of people. Christians are the only group that would even think of allowing the practice of other religions as a matter of course.

 

[Mr.Nick]

You say they're relevant, then you blatantly oppose the First Amendment. Of course, you also took the liberty to come up with this argument when I didn't make any mention of the separation of Church and State.

"Separation of church and state" doesn't even exist.....

I don't understand how something from a Thomas Jefferson letter can become such a common misunderstanding to the point of idiots believing those words exist in the First Amendment.

Indeed the only thing remotely resembling it is the First Amendment...and where a STATE Religion was forbidden as this land was populated BY those escaping Religious Persecution of the ruling class of Europe at the time.

Watch the progressive idiots laugh at Christine O'Donnell when she asks "where in the constitution does it say separation of church and state."

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdOpo-pNhWc]Christine O'Donnell "Where in constitution is the separation of church and state?" - YouTube[/ame]

It really goes to show how fucking stupid progressives are..

 

[BlindBoo]

The Spanish were devout Christians as well. People shouldn't overlook their part in the creation of our Nation. They settled here before the French and British did.

Yes they were some of the bloodiest Christians of them all. The European war between Christians did spill over into the new world. It's one of the reasons the founders were for forming a secular governement.

 

[The T]

"Separation of church and state" doesn't even exist.....

I don't understand how something from a Thomas Jefferson letter can become such a common misunderstanding to the point of idiots believing those words exist in the First Amendment.

Indeed the only thing remotely resembling it is the First Amendment...and where a STATE Religion was forbidden as this land was populated BY those escaping Religious Persecution of the ruling class of Europe at the time.

Watch the progressive idiots laugh at Christine O'Donnell when she asks "where in the constitution does it say separation of church and state."

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdOpo-pNhWc"]Christine O'Donnell "Where in constitution is the separation of church and state?" - YouTube[/ame]

It really goes to show how fucking stupid progressives are..

Not oly that? Dangerous...these people VOTE...

 

[Mr.Nick]

The Bill of rights are the first 10 Amendments to the constitution. Only one of the added amendment that I can think of takes away rights from citizens and true authoritarians passed that one. Progressives have been battling authoritarians for a hundred years or more.

Are you fucking delusional??

Lets see here - progressives have been trying to limit free speech, ban guns and ban a states right to self legislate..

I would love to know what "progressives" added to the Bill of Rights considering it has never been amended...

The Bill of Rights are the first Ten amendments to the Constitution, and "progressives" had absolutely nothing to do with any of it considering progressives only came about in the mid-60's...

Progressives wrote them and most of the amendments too.

Women Suffrage in the Progressive Era - For Teachers (Library of Congress)

Woman suffrage is NOT part of the Bill of Rights, nor did "progressives" have anything to do with woman voting rights. As a matter of fact republicans backed voting rights for woman, while democrats opposed the idea.

Not to mention there is nothing that says woman couldn't vote in the first place, and that has always had me scratching my head.

 

[BlindBoo]

You're clueless aren't you??

You do realize the founding fathers/framers believed in innate rights granted by God himself.

You may as well ask why Armageddon hasn't occurred.

You're a fucking asshole too aren't you?????

They may have beleived that but they damn sure knew God wasn't going to protect those rights because...... "That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed"

Declaration of Independence - Text Transcript

Not from some Supernatural Creature but from the "consent of the governed"

ODD You skipped over the FIRST PART before what YOu quoted and the REASON for the writing...

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...

Nice try idiot.

No it's not odd at all, moroonie. That part of the declartion was already brought up by the previous post "innate rights granted by God himself." That poster didn't post the SECOND PART did he? Furthermore I posted a link to the entire document. Do try and keep up.

 

[Mr.Nick]

I agree in part. I think his treaty provision went too far when it said "in NO sense."

Given the First Amendment, I agree that it is not founded AS a Christian nation -- or as a Jewish Nation -- or as a Deist Nation -- or as a Muslim Nation -- etc. Freedom of Religion means that no one religion is dominant or favored.

On the other hand, there IS a sense in which the founding of the Republic was premised -- at least in part -- upon our Judeo-Christian roots.

I can't wait to see how many people disagree with him. And why.

It would not have been constructed in this way without the founders being Christians. Muslims would never have come up with this type of government structure. Nor would Buddhists or any other group of people. Christians are the only group that would even think of allowing the practice of other religions as a matter of course.

Honestly, if I didn't read your sig I would have taken your sarcastic comment for a real progressive argument...

 

[peach174]

Declaration of Independence
Our rights come from the creator (One and only one God) Life, Liberty & the Pursuit of Happiness
by the consent of the governed, who believe in the creator.

 

[BlindBoo]

Are you fucking delusional??

Lets see here - progressives have been trying to limit free speech, ban guns and ban a states right to self legislate..

I would love to know what "progressives" added to the Bill of Rights considering it has never been amended...

The Bill of Rights are the first Ten amendments to the Constitution, and "progressives" had absolutely nothing to do with any of it considering progressives only came about in the mid-60's...

Progressives wrote them and most of the amendments too.

Women Suffrage in the Progressive Era - For Teachers (Library of Congress)

Woman suffrage is NOT part of the Bill of Rights, nor did "progressives" have anything to do with woman voting rights. As a matter of fact republicans backed voting rights for woman, while democrats opposed the idea.

Not to mention there is nothing that says woman couldn't vote in the first place, and that has always had me scratching my head.

The Woman suffrage movement was a progressive socialist movement. Amendments to the Constitution is what I was talking about not just the first 10 (Bill of Rights). Most all amendment protect rights of citizens.

 

[Mr.Nick]

You're a fucking asshole too aren't you?????

They may have beleived that but they damn sure knew God wasn't going to protect those rights because...... "That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed"

Declaration of Independence - Text Transcript

Not from some Supernatural Creature but from the "consent of the governed"

ODD You skipped over the FIRST PART before what YOu quoted and the REASON for the writing...

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...

Nice try idiot.

No it's not odd at all, moroonie. That part of the declartion was already brought up by the previous post "innate rights granted by God himself." That poster didn't post the SECOND PART did he? Furthermore I posted a link to the entire document. Do try and keep up.

Why don't you post that "second part?"

I didn't even post it verbatim either...

 

[BlindBoo]

Declaration of Independence
Our rights come from the creator (One and only one God) Life, Liberty & the Pursuit of Happiness
by the consent of the governed, who believe in the creator.

Like I said Peachy, the rights may come from The Creator (Captain Kirk??) but "That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."

It's not "The Creator" that secures the rights.......it's men.

 

[BlindBoo]

ODD You skipped over the FIRST PART before what YOu quoted and the REASON for the writing...



Nice try idiot.

No it's not odd at all, moroonie. That part of the declartion was already brought up by the previous post "innate rights granted by God himself." That poster didn't post the SECOND PART did he? Furthermore I posted a link to the entire document. Do try and keep up.

Why don't you post that "second part?"

I didn't even post it verbatim either...

ummm , I did.

 

[Mr.Nick]

Progressives wrote them and most of the amendments too.

Women Suffrage in the Progressive Era - For Teachers (Library of Congress)

Woman suffrage is NOT part of the Bill of Rights, nor did "progressives" have anything to do with woman voting rights. As a matter of fact republicans backed voting rights for woman, while democrats opposed the idea.

Not to mention there is nothing that says woman couldn't vote in the first place, and that has always had me scratching my head.

The Woman suffrage movement was a progressive socialist movement. Amendments to the Constitution is what I was talking about not just the first 10 (Bill of Rights). Most all amendment protect rights of citizens.

No it wasn't.

You do realize socialism/communism didn't truly exist until 1917??

Republicans/classical liberals were petitioning government to allow woman to vote ever since the 1830's.....

Ever hear of the "Liberty Party?"

They were like the modern day Tea Party/libertarians/classical liberals etc.... They were staunch supporters of woman voting rights.

 

[peach174]

Declaration of Independence
Our rights come from the creator (One and only one God) Life, Liberty & the Pursuit of Happiness
by the consent of the governed, who believe in the creator.

Like I said Peachy, the rights may come from The Creator (Captain Kirk??) but "That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."

It's not "The Creator" that secures the rights.......it's men.

Of course it's men, men who belive in God

 

[peach174]

The United States has always been a Theocracy, but not by any one group or type of religious group.
Thus the words, out of many we are one. All religions are included.

Theocracy is a form of government in which the official policy is to be governed by immediate divine guidance or by officials who are regarded as divinely guided.
No president thus far has been an atheist. They have all been believers in God.

Civics isn't your strong suit. The United States has never been a theocracy. If you want to see a theocracy, Iran would be a better example.

Your the one not seeing the difference in the two theocracy's.
Ours is by all religions who believe in God given rights. By many different religions not one in particular.
Iran's is pursuant to the doctrine of a particular religious group or religion.

 

[EmoBasher]

"Separation of church and state" doesn't even exist.....

I don't understand how something from a Thomas Jefferson letter can become such a common misunderstanding to the point of idiots believing those words exist in the First Amendment.

Indeed the only thing remotely resembling it is the First Amendment...and where a STATE Religion was forbidden as this land was populated BY those escaping Religious Persecution of the ruling class of Europe at the time.

Watch the progressive idiots laugh at Christine O'Donnell when she asks "where in the constitution does it say separation of church and state."

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdOpo-pNhWc]Christine O'Donnell "Where in constitution is the separation of church and state?" - YouTube[/ame]

It really goes to show how fucking stupid progressives are..

Well, with the First Amendment barring the establishment of a religion, that's why we have to keep debating this in the courts, over and over. Jefferson's letter alludes to a possible intent...

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Can someone address these post?
When the Senate first convened in New York City on April 6, 1789, one of its first orders of business was to appoint a committee to recommend a candidate for chaplain. On April 25, the Senate elected the Right Reverend Samuel Provoost, Episcopal Bishop of New York, as its first chaplain.
U.S. Senate: Art & History Home > People > Officers & Staff > Senate Chaplain

First Prayer of the Continental Congress, 1774

Preserve the health of their bodies and vigor of their minds; shower down on them and the millions they here represent, such temporal blessings as Thou seest expedient for them in this world and crown them with everlasting glory in the world to come. All this we ask in the name and through the merits of Jesus Christ, Thy Son and our Savior.

First Prayer of the Continental Congress, Office of the Chaplain

What's odd about the whole treaty of Treaty of Tripoli Arabic version There is no Article 11. The Arabic text which is between Articles 10 and 12 is in form a letter, crudeand flamboyant and withal quite unimportant, from the Dey of Algiers to the Pasha ofTripoli.

The eleventh article of the Barlow translation has no equivalent whatever in the Arabic. The Arabic text opposite that article is a letter from Hassan Pasha of Algiers to Yussuf Pasha of Tripoli. The letter gives notice of the treaty of peace concluded with the Americans and recommends its observation. Three fourths of the letter consists of an introduction, drawn up by a stupid secretary who just knew a certain number of bombastic words and expressions occurring in solemn documents, but entirely failed to catch their real meaning. Here the only thing to be done by a translator is to try to give the reader an impression of the nonsensical original:

Avalon Project - The Barbary Treaties 1786-1816 - Treaty with Tripoli 1796 <BR> The Annotated Translation of 1930


The treaty of Treaty of Tripoli is a contradiction of what the founders had completed a few years earlier.

 

[peach174]

Our Founders never interned for God to be out of our Government.
They did not want Government to endorse any one religion, like Christianity, Islam, Jewish or any other type of religion.
This is why the Government appoints Chaplains paid by our taxes that represent all religions.
They don't just open prayer every morning. They are there for our Representatives to go to for spiritual guidance when they need it, for all religions.
They also conduct bible studies, have discussion sessions and prayer meetings for the members and staff.
They often officiate at weddings and funerals of members.
They coordinate the guest chaplains who are invited by members to deliver the daily invocation.

 

[Peach]

Benjamin Franklin:
"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." Poor Richard's Almanack,

Thomas Paine:

I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church.

James Madison:

"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise." -letter to Wm. Bradford, April 1, 1774

John Adams :

I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved-- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"
-letter to Thomas Jefferson

Thomas Jefferson:

"And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this the most venerated reformer of human errors." -- Jefferson's letter to John Adams, April 11 1823

Not many Christians among the Founders, Jay was an exception. Most were Deists.

This is simply a complete falsehood. And a pretty stupid one to boot.

Just US history, like it or not:

Thomas Jefferson: “The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg.”

 

[Sky Dancer]

Thank God, our government is not founded on Christianity.