Afghanistan; From Bush, To Obama

[Mr. Shaman]

Priority 1 (for "conservatives") is to whine & cry, every time George Bush is tagged with failure. These would be the same "conservatives" who consistently-insist that people need to Take Responsibility For Their Own Actions! (typically saved for whatever minority's appropriate ).

Seeing-as-how "The President's responsible for everything, under his watch!", who ELSE (but George Bush) WOULD be responsible for not dealing with Afghanistan.....when ALL options existed??!!!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmtPBTybQ9k]YouTube - The Hunt For Bin Laden[/ame]

***

Fast Forward, now.....as George Will says....and, now, "conservatives" want to blame Barack Obama for the present-situation (in Afghanistan)??

Sorry, "conservatives"......Obama was/is RIGHT (as usual)....and, he's gotten a back-handed blessing from George Will!!!​

June 17, 2010​

"It has been four months since Gen. Stanley McChrystal said, in words that reflect the military's embrace of nation-building, "We've got a government in a box, ready to roll in" to Marja. It took longer than expected to reach a more inconclusive outcome than expected in that town of about 80,000, which last month McChrystal called "a bleeding ulcer."

Fast, however, is U.S. policy. In his reverent new book "The Promise: President Obama, Year One," Jonathan Alter reconstructs the administration's deliberations about Afghanistan in Autumn 2009. Vice President Joe Biden, walking with the president to the decisive meeting with Gen. David Petraeus and Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, was assured by Obama that the policy of beginning a significant withdrawal in 2011 was a direct presidential order. Alter reports that Obama, whose mantra for the military was "Do not occupy what you cannot transfer" – what you cannot soon make Afghanistan's responsibility – said to Petraeus, "I want you to be honest with me. You can do this in 18 months?"

Petraeus: "Sir, I'm confident we can train and hand over to the ANA (Afghan National Army) in that time frame."

Obama: "If you can't do the things you say you can in 18 months, then no one is going to suggest we stay, right?"

Petraeus: "Yes, sir, in agreement."

Mullen: "Yes, sir."

Biden told Alter: "In July of 2011 you're going to see a whole lot of people moving out. Bet on it." Bet on this, too: The Taliban will increase the tempo of fighting between now and November, when the NATO meeting in Lisbon will assess the evidence of success in Afghanistan. It took 2,520 days for the war to take 500 American lives; it took 627 days for it to take the next 500.

Perhaps it was coincidental that after several weeks of bad news from Afghanistan, on Monday there was good news, of sorts, about what Obama has previously called Afghanistan's "vast potential." The New York Times reported that "senior American government officials" say Afghanistan has "nearly $1 trillion in untapped mineral deposits," which might fundamentally alter the nation's economy "and perhaps the Afghan war itself."

This "stunning potential," in Petraeus' description of the minerals, will encourage the perception that the U.S. engagement there has something to do with economic aggrandizement, will aggravate Afghanistan's pandemic corruption and will intensify the Taliban's determination to prevail in a place where even good news has, like a scorpion, a sting in its tail."

There's no other way to say it, except.....it's time to BAIL....on another BUSHCO (Inc.) SCREW-UP!!!!!​

 

[Toome]

Very straightforward report. I don't understand the purpose behind the title of the thread regarding Bush and Obama.

I'm not surprised by the outcome.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Let's see if I got this straight:

War for Oil = Bad
War for Minerals = Good

Is that about right?

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Very straightforward report. I don't understand the purpose behind the title of the thread regarding Bush and Obama.

Yeah.....as-if Timeline Afghanistan would have been more-descriptive of the thread-opener content.

​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Let's see if I got this straight:

War for Oil = Bad
War for Minerals = Good

Is that about right?

NO!

What Will is suggesting, is.....War for Minerals could make things MUCH-hotter, for use, if Afghanis think that's why we're there....after Will's (already) endorsed Obama's withdrawl-scenario.

(For a scientist....you surely do have crappy reading-comprehension skills. )​

 

[LibocalypseNow]

This current Administration is completely lost on this issue and most others as well. They have no strategy or any real discernible goals as far as Afghanistan goes. Our nation is leaderless. Blame BOOOOOOOOSH if you want to but this Administration is sinking fast and still blaming BOOOOOOOSH isn't going to change this sad reality.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

This current Administration is completely lost on this issue and most others as well. They have no strategy or any real discernible goals as far as Afghanistan goes. Our nation is leaderless. Blame BOOOOOOOOSH if you want to but this Administration is sinking fast and still blaming BOOOOOOOSH isn't going to change this sad reality.

Gee.....so much rhetoric....so little detail......

How shocking. ​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

It (almost) sounds like our troops are fighting a "conservative" mind-set in Afghani-troops.​

"Brig. Gen. Frederick Hodges, one of the top U.S. commanders in southern Afghanistan, said "2010 is the decisive year."

"We'll never have more capabilities that we'll have this summer," he added.

But if progress can be made, NATO officials say, the onus will be on the Afghan government.

"I don't see the Afghan government seeing this as an urgent thing," said Ed Johnson, a Canadian police trainer embedded in Rathmann's platoon. "They don't have the timelines the U.S. has here."

Rathmann was more blunt.

"I see a burning desire only to get through the day and collect a paycheck," he said."

 

[Angelhair]

Very straightforward report. I don't understand the purpose behind the title of the thread regarding Bush and Obama.

Yeah.....as-if Timeline Afghanistan would have been more-descriptive of the thread-opener content.

​

How about from 9/11 to Bush to Obama????

 

[Angelhair]

This current Administration is completely lost on this issue and most others as well. They have no strategy or any real discernible goals as far as Afghanistan goes. Our nation is leaderless. Blame BOOOOOOOOSH if you want to but this Administration is sinking fast and still blaming BOOOOOOOSH isn't going to change this sad reality.

Obama will go down as the worst president bar none. He can blame Bush until hell freezes over - he will have a lot more to answer to than did BOOOOOSH.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Very straightforward report. I don't understand the purpose behind the title of the thread regarding Bush and Obama.

Yeah.....as-if Timeline Afghanistan would have been more-descriptive of the thread-opener content.

​

How about from 9/11 to Bush to Obama????

'Cause the thread never started with 9/11?????

​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

This current Administration is completely lost on this issue and most others as well. They have no strategy or any real discernible goals as far as Afghanistan goes. Our nation is leaderless. Blame BOOOOOOOOSH if you want to but this Administration is sinking fast and still blaming BOOOOOOOSH isn't going to change this sad reality.

Obama will go down as the worst president bar none. He can blame Bush until hell freezes over - he will have a lot more to answer to than did BOOOOOSH.

ooooooooooooooooooooo.....that's quite-the-list you compiled.



You should probably spend a little-more-time explaining Lil' Dumbya's list....you know....as practice.

​

 

[Zona]

Let's see if I got this straight:

War for Oil = Bad
War for Minerals = Good

Is that about right?

Mr. missed the point guy.....nice to meet you.

 

[Zona]

This current Administration is completely lost on this issue and most others as well. They have no strategy or any real discernible goals as far as Afghanistan goes. Our nation is leaderless. Blame BOOOOOOOOSH if you want to but this Administration is sinking fast and still blaming BOOOOOOOSH isn't going to change this sad reality.

Obama will go down as the worst president bar none. He can blame Bush until hell freezes over - he will have a lot more to answer to than did BOOOOOSH.

The day he starts a war based on a lie and gets our american service members killed for it, I will agree with you.

 

[Zona]

This current Administration is completely lost on this issue and most others as well. They have no strategy or any real discernible goals as far as Afghanistan goes. Our nation is leaderless. Blame BOOOOOOOOSH if you want to but this Administration is sinking fast and still blaming BOOOOOOOSH isn't going to change this sad reality.

I agree with you..I wong blame bush, but seriously,

CAN YOU TELL ME BUSH'S STRATEGY ON AFGHANISTAN WHEN HE WAS IN OFICE? Explain his discernible goals or strategy. If you can, I will never mention Bush's name again. Bush basically forgot about it because he wanted to go to war with Iraq as retaliation for 9/11...? I will never, ever understand that one but you guys supported him.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Let's see if I got this straight:

War for Oil = Bad
War for Minerals = Good

Is that about right?

Mr. missed the point guy.....nice to meet you.

You've got none.

Move along. ​

 

[Toome]

Very straightforward report. I don't understand the purpose behind the title of the thread regarding Bush and Obama.

Yeah.....as-if Timeline Afghanistan would have been more-descriptive of the thread-opener content.

​

Implying any blame on either president is plain dumb. Blame it on our own national arrogance and consistent inability to understand the cultures we are dealing with. The DELTA Force ground commander expressed frustration with the locals who, on the one hand were willing to help his team find bin Laden, yet on the other hand were clearly in awe just hearing his voice over the radio. Then comes the part about how the opposing sides seem to have their own separate deal going on with the inexplicable cease fire at the moment when the DELTA team needed their help the most.

The challenge to special ops forces is having a solid understanding of the native culture they are working with. We tend to template our own understanding of good guy/bad guy and think we can win over hearts and minds. Doesn't work that way.

My point is that the US SOF would have faced the exact same cultural challenges no matter who was in the White House.

I think President Bush made a tactical error by putting so much emphasis on Osama bin Laden. Any experienced combat soldier will tell you that it's all about controlling key terrain and influencing how the enemy makes his decisions. The moment you personalize it, you risk giving the other side something to throw back in your face if and when you fail to capture/kill the personality.

We learned that a long time ago in a shithole called Vietnam.