Abuse of Social Programs

[MaggieMae]

Okie dokey then.

You come off as mentally ill, but whatever.

Then you need glasses.

 

[AllieBaba]

My glasses are on. I'm a case worker. I have lots of experience with those who need the system, those who abuse the system, and those who are mentally ill. I have you pegged as mentally ill and need the system. You would probably abuse it if you were together enough, but you aren't. Which is why you get angry when others are successful in duping the system, or when they don't live the way you live. It's not rational, it's just the way it is.

We have a trailer court where a lot of our really crazy, really, really, REALLY dysfunctional families all live and they spend all their time spying on each other and calling us to report various and assorted "violations" and "offenses" they suspect their neighbors of. Sound familiar? You're probably on my caseload.

 

[Madeline]

I disagree about the continuation of his smoking habit. When you collect SSI or SSD, you must complete an annual report of your HOUSEHOLD EXPENSES, and if he is hiding a $60 per week (or more) smoking habit, they will cut the amount of his benefit if they conduct an actual audit of his expenses. Also, no federal or state welfare agency should be paying an electric bill for ANY reason other than when a person can prove that he simply has no money to keep the lights on. Obviously, if this person still has his faculties about him, the priority would be electricity--not smoking.

SSDI and SSI are not welfare, and there is no audit. There's an amazing amount of bad information on this thread.

 

[Madeline]

Gadawg73 wrote:

As a citizen in a socialized medical disability program she has a duty to practice health decisions that affect her health positively.
Most private insurers regularly check up on their disability patients and if they do not follow certain guidelines for their recovery and therapy then they do not receive further disability payments.
Our tax dollars are not grown on trees and the amount of $ that is paid into the system as social security is not even close to an acturial dollar amount of current and future claims for disability.
The system should not reward her for bad choices. It doesn't in the provate sector and it should not in the public.

No private disability policy has any provision whatsoever about making healthier choices in future after the initial award. NONE.

They can increase your premium if they find out you smoke, or if you're collecting for the diability related to smoking, they will drop you like a hot potato if they can prove you're still smoking. And don't kid yourself that they don't have ways of finding this stuff out, such as requesting updates from the doctor once that release is signed allowing them to get doctor reports.

I have no idea if they uprate for smoking; all the policies I have ever seen IRL were group, issued through an employer. Once you have been declared disabled and begin to receive benefits, you can lose your eligibility in only one of two ways: going back to work or dying. Smoking has fuck-all to do with it.

 

[AllieBaba]

I disagree about the continuation of his smoking habit. When you collect SSI or SSD, you must complete an annual report of your HOUSEHOLD EXPENSES, and if he is hiding a $60 per week (or more) smoking habit, they will cut the amount of his benefit if they conduct an actual audit of his expenses. Also, no federal or state welfare agency should be paying an electric bill for ANY reason other than when a person can prove that he simply has no money to keep the lights on. Obviously, if this person still has his faculties about him, the priority would be electricity--not smoking.

SSDI and SSI are not welfare, and there is no audit. There's an amazing amount of bad information on this thread.

SSI is welfare.
SSD is not.

SSDI is a combination of both.

 

[Gadawg73]

I disagree about the continuation of his smoking habit. When you collect SSI or SSD, you must complete an annual report of your HOUSEHOLD EXPENSES, and if he is hiding a $60 per week (or more) smoking habit, they will cut the amount of his benefit if they conduct an actual audit of his expenses. Also, no federal or state welfare agency should be paying an electric bill for ANY reason other than when a person can prove that he simply has no money to keep the lights on. Obviously, if this person still has his faculties about him, the priority would be electricity--not smoking.

SSDI and SSI are not welfare, and there is no audit. There's an amazing amount of bad information on this thread.

Exactly.

 

[Gadawg73]

No private disability policy has any provision whatsoever about making healthier choices in future after the initial award. NONE.

They can increase your premium if they find out you smoke, or if you're collecting for the diability related to smoking, they will drop you like a hot potato if they can prove you're still smoking. And don't kid yourself that they don't have ways of finding this stuff out, such as requesting updates from the doctor once that release is signed allowing them to get doctor reports.

I have no idea if they uprate for smoking; all the policies I have ever seen IRL were group, issued through an employer. Once you have been declared disabled and begin to receive benefits, you can lose your eligibility in only one of two ways: going back to work or dying. Smoking has fuck-all to do with it.

Refusing therapy, not going to the insurer's doctor for evaluations and if smoking is/was determined to be part of the problem of not being able to return to work are all valid facts for an insurer to re-evaluate the disability rating if that was part of the policy.

 

[editec]

I have an ex-boyfriend who's 40 year old roomate currently collects disability on the government because she cannot "breathe properly". She is on oxygen however she smokes close to a carton of cigarrettes a day as well as uses the money to buy drugs. Because she is on oxygen the government also pays her electric bill - which is always unusually high due to the fact that they have purchased expensive lighting because they use these lights to grow marijuana plants. Is this an abuse of our programs? How typical are these situations and what can be done?

I once worked for a very wealthy chum who specialized in buying up slums and filling them with Chapter 8 housing clients because he knew he could maintain those places as slums ( the government paid far too much for the rents there) and get away with it as long as he bribed the right people.

What ought to be done about people like that?

If they were slums to begin with, they wouldn't have passed HUD inspection.

Dream on Maggie.

We both wish that were true.

 

[Madeline]

They can increase your premium if they find out you smoke, or if you're collecting for the diability related to smoking, they will drop you like a hot potato if they can prove you're still smoking. And don't kid yourself that they don't have ways of finding this stuff out, such as requesting updates from the doctor once that release is signed allowing them to get doctor reports.

I have no idea if they uprate for smoking; all the policies I have ever seen IRL were group, issued through an employer. Once you have been declared disabled and begin to receive benefits, you can lose your eligibility in only one of two ways: going back to work or dying. Smoking has fuck-all to do with it.

Refusing therapy, not going to the insurer's doctor for evaluations and if smoking is/was determined to be part of the problem of not being able to return to work are all valid facts for an insurer to re-evaluate the disability rating if that was part of the policy.

You are discussing worker's compensation insurance, where it is anticipated that the insured will return to work. Disability insurance contemplates a permanent loss of income generating ability, e.g., a stroke that leaves the patient immobilized, etc. Once the award is won, there is no on-going investigation into the insured's circumstances apart from monitoring for his death.

 

[AllieBaba]

You guys, SSI IS welfare. That's what it's called. There's social security disability, which comes from a different pot of money that workers pay into; then there's SSI for disabled people who have never worked. SSDI is a combination of both, for people who may have worked a little, but not enough to get the full $674 (or whatever it is) grant.

Retarded people get SSI. People who have worked all or part of their lives get SSD. Get it?

 

[Madeline]

Returning to the Op: setting aside the question of whether SSDI is a "social program" and the recipient's illegal drug business, how is it you feel the SSDI award is "abused" again? Because the disability relates to breathing and the patient still smokes, is that it?

If so, you are wrong-o. The only way to "abuse" SSDI would be to malinger, find crooked MDs who'd back you up and receive benefits for an illness you do not have. Considering the recipient in the Op takes oxygen, I think we can assume she has an actual illness.

Hysterical much, folks?

 

[Madeline]

You guys, SSI IS welfare. That's what it's called. There's social security disability, which comes from a different pot of money that workers pay into; then there's SSI for disabled people who have never worked. SSDI is a combination of both, for people who may have worked a little, but not enough to get the full $674 (or whatever it is) grant.

Retarded people get SSI. People who have worked all or part of their lives get SSD. Get it?

Children also get SSI -- which is a ridiculous thing, IMO.

 

[MaggieMae]

My glasses are on. I'm a case worker. I have lots of experience with those who need the system, those who abuse the system, and those who are mentally ill. I have you pegged as mentally ill and need the system. You would probably abuse it if you were together enough, but you aren't. Which is why you get angry when others are successful in duping the system, or when they don't live the way you live. It's not rational, it's just the way it is.

We have a trailer court where a lot of our really crazy, really, really, REALLY dysfunctional families all live and they spend all their time spying on each other and calling us to report various and assorted "violations" and "offenses" they suspect their neighbors of. Sound familiar? You're probably on my caseload.

It's so much fun to see someone spinning their wheels so fast. Just admit you were dead wrong for a change, would ya? You can continue arguing other issues, but on this one, you look like a pathetic fool.

 

[MaggieMae]

I disagree about the continuation of his smoking habit. When you collect SSI or SSD, you must complete an annual report of your HOUSEHOLD EXPENSES, and if he is hiding a $60 per week (or more) smoking habit, they will cut the amount of his benefit if they conduct an actual audit of his expenses. Also, no federal or state welfare agency should be paying an electric bill for ANY reason other than when a person can prove that he simply has no money to keep the lights on. Obviously, if this person still has his faculties about him, the priority would be electricity--not smoking.

SSDI and SSI are not welfare, and there is no audit. There's an amazing amount of bad information on this thread.

Low Income Welfare

Although this reflects how the system works in New Jersey, it is the same in every state, including mine.

LSNJLAW - Unemployment, Welfare, and Social Security Disability/SSI Benefits: How They Affect One Another

What if my doctor limits the work I can do or says that I can’t work at all?
Be sure to think through your ability to work when you apply for unemployment benefits. If a doctor has placed limitations on your ability to work, you should be ready to provide documentation of your work limitations. If you are unable to do work of any kind, you should consider applying for Welfare (TANF/GA) and/or Social Security Disability (SSI/SSDI), rather than Unemployment. The various programs can and will share information when determining eligibility, so it is best to provide all information up front and apply for the program(s) that best fit your circumstances.

Disability claims are reviewed in three, five, or seven years, depending upon the type of condition you have. This review, called a Continuing Disability Review (CDR), is an important part of the SSDI program and is experienced by all SSI and SSDI recipients.

 

[AllieBaba]

My glasses are on. I'm a case worker. I have lots of experience with those who need the system, those who abuse the system, and those who are mentally ill. I have you pegged as mentally ill and need the system. You would probably abuse it if you were together enough, but you aren't. Which is why you get angry when others are successful in duping the system, or when they don't live the way you live. It's not rational, it's just the way it is.

We have a trailer court where a lot of our really crazy, really, really, REALLY dysfunctional families all live and they spend all their time spying on each other and calling us to report various and assorted "violations" and "offenses" they suspect their neighbors of. Sound familiar? You're probably on my caseload.

It's so much fun to see someone spinning their wheels so fast. Just admit you were dead wrong for a change, would ya? You can continue arguing other issues, but on this one, you look like a pathetic fool.

Lol...and omg.

You are very funny.

 

[MaggieMae]

No private disability policy has any provision whatsoever about making healthier choices in future after the initial award. NONE.

They can increase your premium if they find out you smoke, or if you're collecting for the diability related to smoking, they will drop you like a hot potato if they can prove you're still smoking. And don't kid yourself that they don't have ways of finding this stuff out, such as requesting updates from the doctor once that release is signed allowing them to get doctor reports.

I have no idea if they uprate for smoking; all the policies I have ever seen IRL were group, issued through an employer. Once you have been declared disabled and begin to receive benefits, you can lose your eligibility in only one of two ways: going back to work or dying. Smoking has fuck-all to do with it.

Perhaps you've forgotten that "policy provisions" basically mean squat to a private insurer. They do what they want, especially if they find they're paying out too much money. As for private disability policies, I only worked for one firm that had one (in addition to state disability), and it did indeed cap benefits at two years. We had a woman who took advantage of the policy to have a very expensive operation to correct scoliosis and once she had max'd out the time, the following year that insurer dropped us as a client. And, during the time she was collecting on the private plan, they did indeed demand to see copies of her medical records on an ongoing basis as assurance she wasn't just lying around on their dime.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Abuse of the system is the American Way. Truth and Justice, not so much.

 

[MaggieMae]

I once worked for a very wealthy chum who specialized in buying up slums and filling them with Chapter 8 housing clients because he knew he could maintain those places as slums ( the government paid far too much for the rents there) and get away with it as long as he bribed the right people.

What ought to be done about people like that?

If they were slums to begin with, they wouldn't have passed HUD inspection.

Dream on Maggie.

We both wish that were true.

All I know is what I see, and what I hear from one of my sister's neighbors who is a HUD representative and does annual inspections of the properties in her jurisdiction. She has some horror stories, for sure, and an owner does NOT get reinstated unless he cleans up his act and on further inspection provides visual proof. She only has about a dozen properties to worry about, so maybe it's more lax when there are too many to deal with. I honestly don't know what happens outside the State of Vermont. Also, just as a sidebar, the owner of the Section 8 senior housing project I previously mentioned put millions into refurbishing and upgrading the buildings into apartments from what had been a huge school complex comprising many buildings for retarded children. That was 10 years ago, and according to him, he still hasn't shown a profit--because of the ongoing renovations required by HUD.

 

[MaggieMae]

I have no idea if they uprate for smoking; all the policies I have ever seen IRL were group, issued through an employer. Once you have been declared disabled and begin to receive benefits, you can lose your eligibility in only one of two ways: going back to work or dying. Smoking has fuck-all to do with it.

Refusing therapy, not going to the insurer's doctor for evaluations and if smoking is/was determined to be part of the problem of not being able to return to work are all valid facts for an insurer to re-evaluate the disability rating if that was part of the policy.

You are discussing worker's compensation insurance, where it is anticipated that the insured will return to work. Disability insurance contemplates a permanent loss of income generating ability, e.g., a stroke that leaves the patient immobilized, etc. Once the award is won, there is no on-going investigation into the insured's circumstances apart from monitoring for his death.

There's no such thing as a one-size-fits-all disability plan issued by a private insurer. End of argument on that point.

 

[AllieBaba]

Trailer park gossip. Well I guess it's a better source than your ass, but not much.