CDZ A thought on armed teachers - how we could make it work

[miketx]

A lone policeman, armed with his service revolver is probably not going to engage a shooter. He is outgunned at that point. Normally they would call for backup

A single teacher, armed with a handgun, with little training is ill-equipped to do battle with an active shooter
If the opportunity arises, where he could get off a shot undetected, he may kill the shooter. But going head to head against an AR-15 is not adviseable

Mass shooters have been stopped by lone cops with their carry guns and/or single armed teachers.


There are people walking around today, lots of them, because mass shooters were stopped by such people way before "back up" would have arrived.

I didn't say it can't happen
But the expectation of untrained hero teachers is overrated

In the movies, the good guy always wins. In real life, mistakes are made....even by highly trained police officers

It sounded like you were saying that it never happened.

Maybe your belief that carry supporters are overrating the odds of a civilian stopping a shooter is a miscommunication on your part.

I support having armed teachers who would be trained on how to handle an active shooter situation
Better than nothing

I just think we need to be aware of what we are getting. Teachers would have to have strict rules of engagement. If multiple teachers are armed, friendly fire is a possibility. I don't think we should expect teachers to be heroes in these situations. They are there to teach and not risk their lives

I dont know about you but I think it would be a hell of a lot more risky facing a guy with a gun unarmed than armed.

He's OK with dead teachers and students just so long as we keep people defenseless so he can pretend moral superiority while he wallows in blood.

 

[miketx]

My wife is a public school teacher - 21 years in

one of her co-workers is retired military, Air Force Major

my thought - EVERY public school should have one ex military officer for every 100 - 150 kids enrolled

these teachers would be specially licensed to carry a firearm at the school

this would be in addition to the SRO (School Resource Officer) & would provide backup and added protection; the SRO would be the "point man" and be "in charge" in an emergency situation

so - a school with 500 students would have an SRO (real police officer) and FIVE trained and armed teachers for protection and emergency situations - for a total of 6 people trained and armed to secure the school

these ex military teachers (could also be retired police, or similar field) would receive an additional $5,000 - $10,000 per year for their added responsibility (that works out to $250 - $500 a month in pay - seems fair) and would be responsible to attend training and anti terrorism instructions at least once a quarter - all of them get together and run training exorcises and study and practice best hiding places for students; best modes of exit, etc)

I could easily see a state like Alabama or Louisiana piloting and testing a system like this & I also think it would work - IE reduce the number of shootings/incidents; because the knowledge of the added security would serve as a deterrent - would make schools less of a soft target

many schools already have ex military on staff that could already participate

what do y'all think of that?

I do not totally oppose having trained teachers who are permitted to carry concealed. I do not want open carry in schools

Raises a lot of issues on level of training, ability to handle an active shooter situation and expectation of the ability of a teacher to confront a gunman with an AR-15 using only a handgun

It works in the movies where the good guy always gets the bad guy despite overwhelming odds. In real life, an innocent student could get killed or the teacher could be confused with the gunman when the police arrive

There is no training for someone shooting at you. It is pretty simple though for most people with any sense. If the shooting starts, take cover, or shoot back or a combination there of. In the current situation made possible by the government who protects us all, it plays out like this: The shooting starts, lots of people die.

Police go to weeks of training on how to engage a shooter and they still make mistakes
Much like police, an untrained teacher would be jumping at shadows and firing at anything that looks like a threat

An armed teacher could kill a shooter.....but there are also risks

Letting a guy roam around the school shooting people isnt risky?

Engaging an active shooter is risky

Something that poorly trained teachers should not have as part of their job

Again you keep spewing your bullshit. Tell us all expert, how do you get trained to be shot at by a murderer?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

So when teachers have to spend money out of their own pocket at virtually EVERY school, so the kids will have what they need, the answer is "No!". But when it comes to spending lots of money to arm teachers for a relatively rare occurrance, somehow the money is there?

Will these retired military "teachers" be able to teach? People spend years learning to do it, and the test scores are still slipping. People with no experience will be able to do the job?

That's why regular teachers should have a gun and CCW allowance.

Armed teachers should not be required to conceal their weapons ...they should be in plain view so that any potential shooter would understand that his violence would be met with immediate force.

Keep em concealed.
It keeps the shooter guessing who's armed.

 

[depotoo]

I heard this morning that even the Washington Post gave four pinnochios on that story.

I can't see any value in it all. Stop worrying about all the control freak bullshit and just let the teachers who want to carry, carry. Problem solved. Not one of these retarded lib freaks has came with anything that will stop it except the tired and worn out taking more guns away from people who had nothing to do with it.

Take a deep breath there, Mike. You will feel better soon.

I don't feel bad at all. All these people all over wringing their hands and proposing all these "solutions" and coming up with all kind of schemes is ridiculous. Not talking about the OP, just in general. All these pricks want is eventual gun removal which will make crime skyrocket.

There have been 18 school shootings SO FAR THIS YEAR!!!!!!! 6 WEEKS!!!!! But doing nothing is ok?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I'd like to hear from local police on armed, untrained teachers in the schools

Do police want to enter a situation with multiple civilians having guns?

Will you stop with the untrained stuff.

 

[rightwinger]

I do not totally oppose having trained teachers who are permitted to carry concealed. I do not want open carry in schools

Raises a lot of issues on level of training, ability to handle an active shooter situation and expectation of the ability of a teacher to confront a gunman with an AR-15 using only a handgun

It works in the movies where the good guy always gets the bad guy despite overwhelming odds. In real life, an innocent student could get killed or the teacher could be confused with the gunman when the police arrive

There is no training for someone shooting at you. It is pretty simple though for most people with any sense. If the shooting starts, take cover, or shoot back or a combination there of. In the current situation made possible by the government who protects us all, it plays out like this: The shooting starts, lots of people die.

Police go to weeks of training on how to engage a shooter and they still make mistakes
Much like police, an untrained teacher would be jumping at shadows and firing at anything that looks like a threat

An armed teacher could kill a shooter.....but there are also risks

Letting a guy roam around the school shooting people isnt risky?

Engaging an active shooter is risky

Something that poorly trained teachers should not have as part of their job

Again you keep spewing your bullshit. Tell us all expert, how do you get trained to be shot at by a murderer?

I think the idea is to be trained not to get shot

 

[rightwinger]

I'd like to hear from local police on armed, untrained teachers in the schools

Do police want to enter a situation with multiple civilians having guns?

Will you stop with the untrained stuff.

They are trained to be teachers not a SWAT team member

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

There is no training for someone shooting at you. It is pretty simple though for most people with any sense. If the shooting starts, take cover, or shoot back or a combination there of. In the current situation made possible by the government who protects us all, it plays out like this: The shooting starts, lots of people die.

Police go to weeks of training on how to engage a shooter and they still make mistakes
Much like police, an untrained teacher would be jumping at shadows and firing at anything that looks like a threat

An armed teacher could kill a shooter.....but there are also risks

Letting a guy roam around the school shooting people isnt risky?

Engaging an active shooter is risky

Something that poorly trained teachers should not have as part of their job

Again you keep spewing your bullshit. Tell us all expert, how do you get trained to be shot at by a murderer?

I think the idea is to be trained not to get shot

Most know the difference between cover and concealment and why one is better than the other.

 

[depotoo]

Then those kids locked behind those walls with the killer have no chance.

How about an ability to lock down a school quickly? Electronic locks on all classrooms. Doors within hallways to contain movement within the school (like firedoors).

Makes sense
Not just lock classrooms but lock off hallways restricting access to the whole school

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I'd like to hear from local police on armed, untrained teachers in the schools

Do police want to enter a situation with multiple civilians having guns?

Will you stop with the untrained stuff.

They are trained to be teachers not a SWAT team member

Why would you even consider putting untrained people in that position?

 

[miketx]

There is no training for someone shooting at you. It is pretty simple though for most people with any sense. If the shooting starts, take cover, or shoot back or a combination there of. In the current situation made possible by the government who protects us all, it plays out like this: The shooting starts, lots of people die.

Police go to weeks of training on how to engage a shooter and they still make mistakes
Much like police, an untrained teacher would be jumping at shadows and firing at anything that looks like a threat

An armed teacher could kill a shooter.....but there are also risks

Letting a guy roam around the school shooting people isnt risky?

Engaging an active shooter is risky

Something that poorly trained teachers should not have as part of their job

Again you keep spewing your bullshit. Tell us all expert, how do you get trained to be shot at by a murderer?

I think the idea is to be trained not to get shot

Having a gun to shoot back many times will help you not get shot.

 

[miketx]

Still waiting for how rightwinger will stop the killings. I'm sure I'll still be waiting tomorrow.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

One does not have to be ex-military or a former policeman to be competent to handle a firearm. All is needed is a little training for those that need it. But this and of itself is not going to solve the problem.............a three pronged approach is needed..........1. Force Schools to deal with bullies.......a major source of motivation for school shooters....they have been or are being bullied and the school does not deal with it. 2. Make sure mentally ill people cannot legally obtain weapons. 3. Arm the teachers and school administrators.

I disagree on a "little" training for armed teachers
Dealing with an active shooter is a difficult situation. Many cops can't handle it
There needs to be serious training and strict rules of engagement before we allow armed teachers

No matter how many times you are told that you cannot be trained for being shot at you keep repeating the same ignorant bullshit. Why is that? You don't want to keep killers out of schools do you? All you can do is try to keep your wits about you and shoot back. If someone has a gun in a school and is killing people or trying to, that should enough for even the most simple minded fool to know they are the threat and to shoot them.

Cops are trained all the time
Active shooter is an extremely stressful situation. Expecting untrained teachers to react correctly and not do more damage is unreasonable

Ridiculous idea....people have an innate sense of self defense and if they have the means they will do what is required. Also...we are calling for the teachers to be trained. Let me ax you a question........if you are in a schoolroom and some nutcase with a weapon is coming down the hallway headed for your classroom....would you rather rely on hiding under your desk and calling 911 or would you rather have your teacher armed and ready to respond to the threat? Under which scenario would you think you have a better chance of surviving.

Some left loon site advocated arming them with canned goods. Sweet Jebus a can of beans against a 9MM?

I'll take a .45 for the win Alex.......

 

[BlackSand]

I'd like to hear from local police on armed, untrained teachers in the schools

Do police want to enter a situation with multiple civilians having guns?

Will you stop with the untrained stuff.

Training isn't the issue ... Teachers don't have to be trained to be SWAT or seasoned combat soldiers.

They aren't going to be repelling walls and swinging through a window on a rope in tactical gear.
They can be taught how to stick a gun in the face of someone opening the door and blow their head off though (3 center mass is better).

Required training for armed teachers ... Quarterly advanced training to maintain certification.
They aren't going to be combat troops ... But they damn sure can learn how to protect the children using the tools they have.
Skills will improve as they receive more training ... Teachers who have been trained longer can also hold workshops between quarterly training.

.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I'd like to hear from local police on armed, untrained teachers in the schools

Do police want to enter a situation with multiple civilians having guns?

Will you stop with the untrained stuff.

Training isn't the issue ... Teachers don't have to be trained to be SWAT or seasoned combat soldiers.

They aren't going to be repelling walls and swinging through a window on a rope in tactical gear.
They can be taught how to stick a gun in the face of someone opening the door and blow their head off though.

Required training for armed teachers ... Quarterly advanced training to maintain certification.
They aren't going to be combat troops ... But they damn sure can learn how to protect the children using the tools they have.
Skills will improve as they receive more training ... Teachers who have been trained longer can also hold workshops between quarterly training.

.

Exactly.
No one is advocating handing a pistol to a teacher and saying good luck.
Well except for rightwinger.....

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I can't see any value in it all. Stop worrying about all the control freak bullshit and just let the teachers who want to carry, carry. Problem solved. Not one of these retarded lib freaks has came with anything that will stop it except the tired and worn out taking more guns away from people who had nothing to do with it.

Take a deep breath there, Mike. You will feel better soon.

I don't feel bad at all. All these people all over wringing their hands and proposing all these "solutions" and coming up with all kind of schemes is ridiculous. Not talking about the OP, just in general. All these pricks want is eventual gun removal which will make crime skyrocket.

There have been 18 school shootings SO FAR THIS YEAR!!!!!!! 6 WEEKS!!!!! But doing nothing is ok?

Wow....that lie is already two days old......no less than the Washington Post debunked that lie...along with all the other places that showed that Everytown for Gun Safety are liars....

America averages about one school shooting each week, report says

That would be nine for the calendar year so far.....BS.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Usually the "something" always involves taking guns away from people who had nothing to do with the murders.

Like you're trying to take guns away from children? Is it because you hate children that you want to infringe on their 2nd Amendment right?

Like I said, you are just a sorry troll, with nothing to offer.

Hitting ignore lists board wide!!!!

 

[sartre play]

See two problems, teachers are in general low paid & due to budget cuts in some states shorter school days & less money for everything needed to teach. so now added to there job will be armed security for the students? are we going to pay them more? who will pay for the hundred hours of training? will good teachers not willing to be responsible for a loaded weapon be replaced by less qualified teachers who are? Think its a good start to a sensible conversation, lets keep the thoughtful solutions coming.

 

[miketx]

See two problems, teachers are in general low paid & due to budget cuts in some states shorter school days & less money for everything needed to teach. so now added to there job will be armed security for the students? are we going to pay them more? who will pay for the hundred hours of training? will good teachers not willing to be responsible for a loaded weapon be replaced by less qualified teachers who are? Think its a good start to a sensible conversation, lets keep the thoughtful solutions coming.

They won't be providing security. They'll just have a gun if they need it. Not all teachers will have to carry a gun, some will not want to, and it'll be no problem. You guys are making this way too complicated when it's not. It's real simple, when you leave for work, you are carrying a gun, and you leave it in your holster or pocket unless you need it.

 

[sartre play]

See two problems, teachers are in general low paid & due to budget cuts in some states shorter school days & less money for everything needed to teach. so now added to there job will be armed security for the students? are we going to pay them more? who will pay for the hundred hours of training? will good teachers not willing to be responsible for a loaded weapon be replaced by less qualified teachers who are? Think its a good start to a sensible conversation, lets keep the thoughtful solutions coming.

They won't be providing security. They'll just have a gun if they need it. Not all teachers will have to carry a gun, some will not want to, and it'll be no problem. You guys are making this way too complicated when it's not. It's real simple, when you leave for work, you are carrying a gun, and you leave it in your holster or pocket unless you need it.

Quote) carrying a gun means your willing to use it. that is providing security.