CDZ A thought on armed teachers - how we could make it work

[miketx]

See two problems, teachers are in general low paid & due to budget cuts in some states shorter school days & less money for everything needed to teach. so now added to there job will be armed security for the students? are we going to pay them more? who will pay for the hundred hours of training? will good teachers not willing to be responsible for a loaded weapon be replaced by less qualified teachers who are? Think its a good start to a sensible conversation, lets keep the thoughtful solutions coming.

They won't be providing security. They'll just have a gun if they need it. Not all teachers will have to carry a gun, some will not want to, and it'll be no problem. You guys are making this way too complicated when it's not. It's real simple, when you leave for work, you are carrying a gun, and you leave it in your holster or pocket unless you need it.

Quote) carrying a gun means your willing to use it. that is providing security.

I carry a gun. I ain't providing security for anyone.

 

[sartre play]

2ND point needs to be considered, what effect will having armed personal in school be on the little kids? will they be scared, or will they think a guns cool & want one too.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

2ND point needs to be considered, what effect will having armed personal in school be on the little kids? will they be scared, or will they think a guns cool & want one too.

We have years of experience with armed security in schools and resource officers from local law enforcement. There is no nothing there to consider!

 

[MarathonMike]

A TSA like solution for schools IMO is too costly, will take too long to implement and will come with it's own set of problems. To me the solution is to harden the target as quickly and with as low a cost and as high a safety margin for students as possible. Get a few armed people in every school. They could be Vets or civilians as long as they have completed a gun safety course and demonstrated skill and have licenses for carrying a gun.

 

[rightwinger]

Still waiting for how rightwinger will stop the killings. I'm sure I'll still be waiting tomorrow.

I have a plan

I will offer my thoughts and prayers and hope God will put an end to the carnage.......it is obvious we will do nothing

 

[miketx]

Still waiting for how rightwinger will stop the killings. I'm sure I'll still be waiting tomorrow.

I have a plan

I will offer my thoughts and prayers and hope God will put an end to the carnage.......it is obvious we will do nothing

Well, that's a better plan than most fascist gun banners have.

 

[oldsoul]

I can't see any value in it all. Stop worrying about all the control freak bullshit and just let the teachers who want to carry, carry. Problem solved. Not one of these retarded lib freaks has came with anything that will stop it except the tired and worn out taking more guns away from people who had nothing to do with it.

Take a deep breath there, Mike. You will feel better soon.

I don't feel bad at all. All these people all over wringing their hands and proposing all these "solutions" and coming up with all kind of schemes is ridiculous. Not talking about the OP, just in general. All these pricks want is eventual gun removal which will make crime skyrocket.

There have been 18 school shootings SO FAR THIS YEAR!!!!!!! 6 WEEKS!!!!! But doing nothing is ok?

Right.... Including two suicides (one of which wasn't even inside the school!!), and how many where NO ONE was injured? Like the 3rd grader that pulled the trigger on an officer's gun (no one injured).

Get your facts straight, and accurate, then come back with a proposal that is both constitutional, and has some hope of actually working.

 

[oldsoul]

I can't see any value in it all. Stop worrying about all the control freak bullshit and just let the teachers who want to carry, carry. Problem solved. Not one of these retarded lib freaks has came with anything that will stop it except the tired and worn out taking more guns away from people who had nothing to do with it.

Take a deep breath there, Mike. You will feel better soon.

I don't feel bad at all. All these people all over wringing their hands and proposing all these "solutions" and coming up with all kind of schemes is ridiculous. Not talking about the OP, just in general. All these pricks want is eventual gun removal which will make crime skyrocket.

There have been 18 school shootings SO FAR THIS YEAR!!!!!!! 6 WEEKS!!!!! But doing nothing is ok?

As long as you continue to deny teachers a right to defend themselves and the kids YOU are responsible.

A society must be really sick if its only solution is to arm the teachers.

What is YOUR solution?

 

[oldsoul]

That number is also largely propaganda, and has little to do with the actual school shootings we are discussing. When the list was published after the Kentucky school shooting, it included so bogus additions to the list. At least 2 of them were suicides by students. The fact that they used a gun was incidental. They would have done it anyway. One of the "school shootings" on that list is a pellet gun shooting of a school bus window. And one of the "school shootings" was a 30something year old man who committed suicide in the parking lot of an empty school. But the fact that he used a gun in an empty school parking lot makes it the same as some lunatic killing 12 or 17 kids? No. This kind of smear propaganda does no one any good.

Okay then 14 SHOOTINGS AT SCHOOLS THIS YEAR!!!!! IN 6 WEEKS!!!!!!

Is that better somehow?

The shooting in KY was the first fatalities in school shootings that were not self-inflicted. I know of 2 actual school shootings (of the type we are discussing). While both are tragic, including a suicide by a 35 year old man in an empty parking lot, or 2 gangbangers shooting at each other are not the issue being discussed.

An armed shooter trying to kill as many as possible? There have been 2 in 2018.

Okay then 2 MASS SHOOTINGS AT SCHOOLS THIS YEAR!!!!! IN 6 WEEKS!!!!!!

Is that better somehow?

Solution????

It is at least accurate.

And just as an FYI, school shootings like the one we are discussing account for around 1% to 2% of the average annual gun murders in the US. There is always a huge reaction to the 1% to 2%, but the other 98% to 99% seem to be acceptable?

If you can't protect the children of your country, you live in a bankrupt state. What will be good for the children will also be good for everyone else.

 

[oldsoul]

Okay then 14 SHOOTINGS AT SCHOOLS THIS YEAR!!!!! IN 6 WEEKS!!!!!!

Is that better somehow?

The shooting in KY was the first fatalities in school shootings that were not self-inflicted. I know of 2 actual school shootings (of the type we are discussing). While both are tragic, including a suicide by a 35 year old man in an empty parking lot, or 2 gangbangers shooting at each other are not the issue being discussed.

An armed shooter trying to kill as many as possible? There have been 2 in 2018.

Okay then 2 MASS SHOOTINGS AT SCHOOLS THIS YEAR!!!!! IN 6 WEEKS!!!!!!

Is that better somehow?

It is at least accurate.

And just as an FYI, school shootings like the one we are discussing account for around 1% to 2% of the average annual gun murders in the US. There is always a huge reaction to the 1% to 2%, but the other 98% to 99% seem to be acceptable?

If you can't protect the children of your country, you live in a bankrupt state. What will be good for the children will also be good for everyone else.

The point of this thread is arming teachers or other school staff against mass shootings.

How will that help anyone but the people at the school? I am not opposed to gun ownership. I own a number of firearms myself.

Also, we haven't protected our children in decades. The infant mortality rate in the US is pitiful. A child born in Poland, Slovakia or Cuba is more likely to live to see its first birthday than a child born in the US. And we spend far more on healthcare. Are we already a bankrupt state?

And that's not to mention the 58+ MILLION babies that have been aborted in the last 45 years... Who's protecting those children?

 

[oldsoul]

The shooting in KY was the first fatalities in school shootings that were not self-inflicted. I know of 2 actual school shootings (of the type we are discussing). While both are tragic, including a suicide by a 35 year old man in an empty parking lot, or 2 gangbangers shooting at each other are not the issue being discussed.

An armed shooter trying to kill as many as possible? There have been 2 in 2018.

Okay then 2 MASS SHOOTINGS AT SCHOOLS THIS YEAR!!!!! IN 6 WEEKS!!!!!!

Is that better somehow?

It is at least accurate.

And just as an FYI, school shootings like the one we are discussing account for around 1% to 2% of the average annual gun murders in the US. There is always a huge reaction to the 1% to 2%, but the other 98% to 99% seem to be acceptable?

If you can't protect the children of your country, you live in a bankrupt state. What will be good for the children will also be good for everyone else.

The point of this thread is arming teachers or other school staff against mass shootings.

How will that help anyone but the people at the school? I am not opposed to gun ownership. I own a number of firearms myself.

Also, we haven't protected our children in decades. The infant mortality rate in the US is pitiful. A child born in Poland, Slovakia or Cuba is more likely to live to see its first birthday than a child born in the US. And we spend far more on healthcare. Are we already a bankrupt state?

Completely bankrupt. Especially morally.

Finally, something we agree on, sort of. What is your solution?

 

[Unkotare]

I was at the airport at 4:00 AM this morning. If the same process were applied to getting kids in school, homeroom would almost be in time for last period.

 

[Taz]

Take a deep breath there, Mike. You will feel better soon.

I don't feel bad at all. All these people all over wringing their hands and proposing all these "solutions" and coming up with all kind of schemes is ridiculous. Not talking about the OP, just in general. All these pricks want is eventual gun removal which will make crime skyrocket.

There have been 18 school shootings SO FAR THIS YEAR!!!!!!! 6 WEEKS!!!!! But doing nothing is ok?

As long as you continue to deny teachers a right to defend themselves and the kids YOU are responsible.

A society must be really sick if its only solution is to arm the teachers.

What is YOUR solution?

I've given up, I say arm all the students.

 

[oldsoul]

I don't feel bad at all. All these people all over wringing their hands and proposing all these "solutions" and coming up with all kind of schemes is ridiculous. Not talking about the OP, just in general. All these pricks want is eventual gun removal which will make crime skyrocket.

There have been 18 school shootings SO FAR THIS YEAR!!!!!!! 6 WEEKS!!!!! But doing nothing is ok?

As long as you continue to deny teachers a right to defend themselves and the kids YOU are responsible.

A society must be really sick if its only solution is to arm the teachers.

What is YOUR solution?

I've given up, I say arm all the students.

Well, that didn't take long. I guess you don't care enough to find real solutions that will work. BTW, arming the students, who have the maturity, skill, and ability to respond (if such a unicorn high school student even exists) is a solution I would be willing to hear more about. I think for MOST cases this would be a very bad idea, but I could be convinced... Give it a shot, who knows who else may be convinced. You may even be on to something. Worth exploring at least.

 

[EGR one]

So when teachers have to spend money out of their own pocket at virtually EVERY school, so the kids will have what they need, the answer is "No!". But when it comes to spending lots of money to arm teachers for a relatively rare occurrance, somehow the money is there?

Will these retired military "teachers" be able to teach? People spend years learning to do it, and the test scores are still slipping. People with no experience will be able to do the job?

A high school dropout, with a desire to teach, could do a better job than what we have seen the last several years in many of our public schools.

Many military retirees have had instructor training, and have taught very technical subjects to many students. Their presence in the schools would have advantageous effect on school discipline in addition to the deterrence effect of being armed.

 

[Taz]

There have been 18 school shootings SO FAR THIS YEAR!!!!!!! 6 WEEKS!!!!! But doing nothing is ok?

As long as you continue to deny teachers a right to defend themselves and the kids YOU are responsible.

A society must be really sick if its only solution is to arm the teachers.

What is YOUR solution?

I've given up, I say arm all the students.

Well, that didn't take long. I guess you don't care enough to find real solutions that will work. BTW, arming the students, who have the maturity, skill, and ability to respond (if such a unicorn high school student even exists) is a solution I would be willing to hear more about. I think for MOST cases this would be a very bad idea, but I could be convinced... Give it a shot, who knows who else may be convinced. You may even be on to something. Worth exploring at least.

Students all have a 2nd Amendment right to carry. Doesn't matter what we think.

 

[EGR one]

My wife is a public school teacher - 21 years in

one of her co-workers is retired military, Air Force Major

my thought - EVERY public school should have one ex military officer for every 100 - 150 kids enrolled

these teachers would be specially licensed to carry a firearm at the school

this would be in addition to the SRO (School Resource Officer) & would provide backup and added protection; the SRO would be the "point man" and be "in charge" in an emergency situation

so - a school with 500 students would have an SRO (real police officer) and FIVE trained and armed teachers for protection and emergency situations - for a total of 6 people trained and armed to secure the school

these ex military teachers (could also be retired police, or similar field) would receive an additional $5,000 - $10,000 per year for their added responsibility (that works out to $250 - $500 a month in pay - seems fair) and would be responsible to attend training and anti terrorism instructions at least once a quarter - all of them get together and run training exorcises and study and practice best hiding places for students; best modes of exit, etc)

I could easily see a state like Alabama or Louisiana piloting and testing a system like this & I also think it would work - IE reduce the number of shootings/incidents; because the knowledge of the added security would serve as a deterrent - would make schools less of a soft target

many schools already have ex military on staff that could already participate

what do y'all think of that?

I do not totally oppose having trained teachers who are permitted to carry concealed. I do not want open carry in schools

Raises a lot of issues on level of training, ability to handle an active shooter situation and expectation of the ability of a teacher to confront a gunman with an AR-15 using only a handgun

It works in the movies where the good guy always gets the bad guy despite overwhelming odds. In real life, an innocent student could get killed or the teacher could be confused with the gunman when the police arrive

Innocent students are already getting killed, and a little training can easily prevent armed teachers from being confused with the gunman.

I would not advocate that armed teachers seek out the shooter. I say that an armed teacher in a locked classroom with his/her students is a better option than just hoping the shooter will go somewhere else.

I also advocate the five minute defense plan for all schools.. Buildings should be built or modified to hold off an armed intruder for at least five minutes. That is usually enough time for the police to respond.

 

[EGR one]

A lone policeman, armed with his service revolver is probably not going to engage a shooter. He is outgunned at that point. Normally they would call for backup

A single teacher, armed with a handgun, with little training is ill-equipped to do battle with an active shooter
If the opportunity arises, where he could get off a shot undetected, he may kill the shooter. But going head to head against an AR-15 is not adviseable

Bullshit.

So you'd go up against an AR-15 with a handgun? Figures.

I would much rather go up against an AR-15 with a handgun than with a stick of chalk. If I survived the first 30 rounds, he wouldn't survive reloading.

 

[Unkotare]

So when teachers have to spend money out of their own pocket at virtually EVERY school, so the kids will have what they need, the answer is "No!". But when it comes to spending lots of money to arm teachers for a relatively rare occurrance, somehow the money is there?

Will these retired military "teachers" be able to teach? People spend years learning to do it, and the test scores are still slipping. People with no experience will be able to do the job?

A high school dropout, with a desire to teach, could do a better job than what we have seen the last several years in many of our public schools.

Many military retirees have had instructor training, and have taught very technical subjects to many students. ....

Are you kidding?

 

[2aguy]

Very interesting to say the least. Why do you see Alabama or Louisiana as easy testing grounds for said program?

Two states that I think would be receptive to the idea and be easier to pass this and test the idea

Texas already allows this on a smaller scale, but not as a matter of actual policy

Doesn't Texas lock the doors and station 2 or 3 teacher's, resource officers at front door with an overhead security camera and you have to pass through these people in to get into the school?

I like the idea of metal detector's and door locking after everyone reports to school.

I spoke with a resource officer yesterday at our local schools he said it would be a nightmare if every teacher had a gun. It would make it very difficult when a swat team arrived to distinguish legal gun carrying teachers from the bad guys. But maybe just a few trained ex military is a good idea.

When the SWAT team arrives, the shooting is usually all over!

Sandy Hook.....he shot himself 5 minutes after starting when he heard the police sirens coming.....this last shooter stopped at the 6 minute mark. The Texas church shooter had been shot and driven off by the NRA instructor with an AR-15 long before the police arrived, and they were 7 minutes out from the last stopping place of the killers vehicle.....