Zone1 A question for the USMB left.

[DudleySmith]

So that would mean that the right to make your own medical decisions is voided if you bear a responsibility for whatever malady that occurs regardless if that malady was the intended consequence.

If you cant make make such common sense distinctions between kidneys and the fact that sex is a voluntary choice act, not a medical decision, then you're obviously not interested in acknowledging the obvious

Do you think that's a sustainable argument for you? Think the answer through.

You should take your own advice.

By the way. I don't think having sex means that you consent to pregnancy.

lol you're consenting to the behavioral choices that lead to pregnancy. Pregnancies aren't 'accidents', they're the product of deliberate choices. Again, if you lack the common sense to make such distinctions and ignore basic biology you just admit you prefer peer group memes and indoctrination over reality. Babies aren't diseases, and pregnancies aren't either.

 

[Curried Goats]

If you cant make make such common sense distinctions between kidneys and the fact that sex is a voluntary choice act, not a medical decision, then you're obviously not interested in acknowledging the obvious


You should take your own advice.



lol you're consenting to the behavioral choices that lead to pregnancy. Pregnancies aren't 'accidents', they're the product of deliberate choices. Again, if you lack the common sense to make such distinctions and ignore basic biology you just admit you prefer peer group memes and indoctrination over reality. Babies aren't diseases, and pregnancies aren't either.

They're biological processes and that's not how consent works. Going out in the sun you aren't consenting to skin cancer. If you eat McDonald's you aren't consenting to heartburn or diabetes. That's not what the concept of consent is about.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

MY POINT IS THAT FOR THE FIRST 20 weeks there is only one central nervous information processing system energized by one human brain that sustains the lives of two separate bodies.

for twenty weeks there is only one individual person having the fact of awareness by the mind of itself and the world. That conscious awareness of an individual’s mind possesses all human rights.

for twenty weeks there is only one individual person having consciousness that emerges from the operations of the brain. That consciousness possesses all human rights.

I don’t think they ever share consciousness.

View attachment 933843

if a pregnant woman becomes brain dead the living ZEF will soon die because there is only one central nervous information processing system energized by one human brain that sustains the lives of two separate bodies.

Using abortion as birth control notes a serious decline in our civilized society.

It’s a decline in religious superstition of not even a majority of Catholics or not of a majority the entire Protestant Christian community of all Bible Believers.

Jews are the most religiously civilized human beings recorded in the Holy Bible and they considered the beginning of human life is when the fetus emerges from the birth canal and takes a first breath.

 

[DudleySmith]

They're biological processes and that's not how consent works. Going out in the sun you aren't consenting to skin cancer. If you eat McDonald's you aren't consenting to heartburn or diabetes. That's not what the concept of consent is about.

You meant to say I'm right and you having nothing as a rebuttal of what I said. Thanks.

 

[Curried Goats]

You meant to say I'm right and you having nothing as a rebuttal of what I said. Thanks.

It seems you want to pretend that. You're not right that paganism is a part of the natural human biology like sexual orientation. That was wrong. Nor do you seem to understand the concept on consent. Consenting to sex isn't the same as consenting to pregnancy anymore than going out in the sun is consenting to skin cancer.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

A fetus is alive as a dependent individual from the moment of conception

I agree one hundred percent.

MY POINT IS THAT FOR THE FIRST 20 weeks there is only one central nervous information processing system energized by one human brain that sustains the lives of two separate bodies. nfbw 240418 Vwdmms00227

Do you have a counter argument to the above?

 

[forkup]

If you cant make make such common sense distinctions between kidneys and the fact that sex is a voluntary choice act, not a medical decision, then you're obviously not interested in acknowledging the obvious


You should take your own advice.



lol you're consenting to the behavioral choices that lead to pregnancy. Pregnancies aren't 'accidents', they're the product of deliberate choices. Again, if you lack the common sense to make such distinctions and ignore basic biology you just admit you prefer peer group memes and indoctrination over reality. Babies aren't diseases, and pregnancies aren't either.

If you cant make make such common sense distinctions between kidneys and the fact that sex is a voluntary choice act, not a medical decision

I can make such distinctions. That's why I said abortion is a medical decision. NOT sex. If you can't make that common sense distinction I'd call you dishonest. Since I don't believe it's an accidental strawman you just posed.

lol you're consenting to the behavioral choices that lead to pregnancy. Pregnancies aren't 'accidents', they're the product of deliberate choices.

The fact that a pregnancy is unwanted very much suggest pregnancies are often accidental. I think very few people make the conscious choice to get pregnant and change their minds when they get pregnant to the point of wanting to abort.

Babies aren't diseases, and pregnancies aren't either.

Babies aren't diseases, I agree. On the other hand, pregnancy often causes diseases. Sometimes even resulting in death. High blood pressure to name a common one and they are ALWAYS uncomfortable to the woman. You're saying they can't make the medical decision to abort. Because the "baby" (using the term colloquially) has MORE rights then that baby would have if it's born. Since you wouldn't think of forcing someone to give a kidney no matter how life-saving that would be.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

lol you're consenting to the behavioral choices that lead to pregnancy. Pregnancies aren't 'accidents', they're the product of deliberate choices. Again, if you lack the common sense to make such distinctions and ignore basic biology you just admit you prefer peer group memes and indoctrination over reality

Since you are so much smarter than everyone else Saint Dudleysmith and are an expert on reality, you will tell us why the bad behavior you describe by others in private brings harm to your life liberty and property when those who make a mistake seek to rectify it through reasonable access to a safe abortion in private.

 

[DudleySmith]

lol at the sociopaths trying to avoid admitting the fact that pregnancies are 100% avoidable and the result of choices made voluntarily and not at all 'medical decisions'. The absurd contortions are pathetic.

 

[JoeB131]

Seems that they would already know this before they allowed themselves to be impregnated. It's just that they are acting like animals instead of humans when they engage in unprotected sex, otherwise knowing that the result is going to be a pregnancy but not giving a shite about it anyways.

Uncivilized society is upon us, and instead of trying our best to conduct ourselves in a more civilized manor, we instead go the way of animal's. Makes no sense what is trending these days, but here we are...

Another wingnut living in fear that someone might be enjoying themselves.

Here's the thing. For most of human history, women had as many babies as they could because 1) they really didn't have much say in the matter, being property and 2) about half their babies would die in infancy, anyway, so you needed to have as many as you could in case you needed someone to take care of you at the ripe old age of 50.

Today, women have more options than being baby machines; few babies die in infancy, and many of us are still active well into our 70s.

Abortion just makes up for the fact that human mortality has changed.

Would it be nice if no one had an abortion because contraception worked every time and people always made good relationship decisions? You betcha.

 

[forkup]

lol at the sociopaths trying to avoid admitting the fact that pregnancies are 100% avoidable and the result of choices made voluntarily and not at all 'medical decisions'. The absurd contortions are pathetic.

Lol, look at the dishonesty of someone using an ad hominem like "sociopaths" ,and a strawman like claiming we say sex or pregnancy is a medical decision.

In my experience, there's usually a direct correlation between the weakness of someone argument and the amount of fallacies one uses to support it.

 

[Curried Goats]

lol at the sociopaths trying to avoid admitting the fact that pregnancies are 100% avoidable and the result of choices made voluntarily and not at all 'medical decisions'. The absurd contortions are pathetic.

Pregnancies aren't 100% avoidable because rape isn't 100% avoidable and that still doesn't make the case for why women should be denied the right to make choices about their own bodies and medical care. Going out in the sun isn't consenting to skin cancer.

 

[Curried Goats]

And we have another confused doper who can't read weighing in. lol it's like a treehouse club of insane burb brats trying to be all 'libertarian n stuff'.

I know what section of the board I'm in. How about you try a response that isn't a personal attack?

 

[Curried Goats]

lol you mean the 'Zone 1' idiocy where you clowns get to sling insults around then run to the mods when you get shot down?

Where have I slung insults at you?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

forkup o

lol at the sociopaths trying to avoid admitting the fact that pregnancies are 100% avoidable

Pregnancies are 100% avoidable only if a fertile male and a fertile female do not have
vaginal sex.

I am opposed to abortion so after fathering our second child, I got a vasectomy so I could have sex with my wife without risk of her ever getting pregnant again in our marriage.

That worked in our family. But if other people have sex without contraception and get pregnant and end it by abortion it has absolutely nothing to do with my life liberty and pursuit of happiness even as I would advise against it.

 

[JoeB131]

forkup o

Pregnancies are 100% avoidable only if a fertile male and a fertile female do not have
vaginal sex.

I am opposed to abortion so after fathering our second child, I got a vasectomy so I could have sex with my wife without risk of her ever getting pregnant again in our marriage.

That worked in our family. But if other people have sex without contraception and get pregnant and end it by abortion it has absolutely nothing to do with my life liberty and pursuit of happiness even as I would advise against it.

And that's the point.

On a personal level, I don't approve of contraceptive abortion. People need to be more responsible.

On a practical level, this isn't something the government should regulate and they probably couldn't effectively do it, anyway.

 

[Augustine_]

Why do you hate babies?
View attachment 933331

Don't worry I don't hate you

 

[Orangecat]

Genetic inclinations toward low intelligence, crime, and illegitimacy.

How do you determine these "genetic inclinations"? By reverse engineering behavior and guessing?

 

[Orangecat]

Let me reply sincerely to your sincere question. I object against your implied meaning by directing your query to "the left."
In my experience there's absolutely no political preference to issuing hyperbolic statements about "the other side" to demonize policy preferences.
For instance on the issue of LGBTQ people. The word "groomer, or even "pedophile" is often used to describe those groups by the right.
On the issue of abortion the word "murder" is often thrown around. A charge that has conditions set in law.
My point is, that by simply mentioning "the left" you are implying it's the left that's mainly or even solely responsible for this dishonest debating tactic.

In my experience, the left is by far the biggest employer of the word "hate" to describe the views of those who disagree with them. If you want to start a similar thread regarding "groomer" or "pedophile", feel free to do so.

 

[Orangecat]

Let me ask you 2 questions. I suggest you really think through the full implications of your response because I've got some pointed follow-up questions depending on your response. Just to forewarn you.

You're nowhere near as intimidating as you seem to think, kiddo, Regardless, I'll consider myself forewarned. Lol.

First question. Do you assert that both humans have the exact same rights from conception?

No.

Second question. Do you believe those rights include the right to make your own medical decisions?

That depends on the nature of the decision. Does it directly impact the wellbeing of another human?