A Question About Guns In Public

[Peach]

here's one...

Luby's massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Would someone EATING have the foresight to remove the firearm, aim, and hit the crazed killer before the killer shot THEM?

Are you dumb, you know how long it takes one man to shoot 43 people? Good God you are ignorant.

No, not from personal experience, that is why I am asking questions of those familiar with firearms.

 

[uscitizen]

Courthouses check both going in & out. A couple restaurants I know of have separate entrances & exits, true.

Most States ban carrying in Court houses dear.

Can one carry in retail establishments? NOTE, I am asking questions, I know of no one who carries a gun into a grocery store...

If the retail store sells alcohol it is illegal in some places.
Also stores in most places can ban weapons if they choose.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Would someone EATING have the foresight to remove the firearm, aim, and hit the crazed killer before the killer shot THEM?

Are you dumb, you know how long it takes one man to shoot 43 people? Good God you are ignorant.

No, not from personal experience, that is why I am asking questions of those familiar with firearms.

Lets assume that he had a 15 round magazine and that he managed to only shoot each person once, he would have to reload twice. It takes several seconds to aim and fire, I assume he was in no hurry. Lets say 5 seconds per person and 10 seconds to reload. Add in about 30 seconds for moving around. Getting the idea yet. If you were not the first person shot you had a hell of a long time to draw and fire if armed that had nothing to do with eating.

Personally if I am ever in a situation like that I will not meekly cower and wait to be shot, I will charge the asshole and make him work for his kill.

 

[uscitizen]

Would someone EATING have the foresight to remove the firearm, aim, and hit the crazed killer before the killer shot THEM?

Are you dumb, you know how long it takes one man to shoot 43 people? Good God you are ignorant.

No, not from personal experience, that is why I am asking questions of those familiar with firearms.

About 10 seconds or less with an Uzi.

 

[Ernie S.]

Courthouses check both going in & out. A couple restaurants I know of have separate entrances & exits, true.

Most States ban carrying in Court houses dear.

Can one carry in retail establishments? NOTE, I am asking questions, I know of no one who carries a gun into a grocery store...

That's why they call it concealed carry. No one knows I'm carrying unless I want them to know.

 

[Peach]

Are you dumb, you know how long it takes one man to shoot 43 people? Good God you are ignorant.

No, not from personal experience, that is why I am asking questions of those familiar with firearms.

Lets assume that he had a 15 round magazine and that he managed to only shoot each person once, he would have to reload twice. It takes several seconds to aim and fire, I assume he was in no hurry. Lets say 5 seconds per person and 10 seconds to reload. Add in about 30 seconds for moving around. Getting the idea yet. If you were not the first person shot you had a hell of a long time to draw and fire if armed that had nothing to do with eating.

Personally if I am ever in a situation like that I will not meekly cower and wait to be shot, I will charge the asshole and make him work for his kill.

Thank you for this information also; reading police reports doesn't substitute for 1st hand experience.

 

[Ernie S.]

Most States ban carrying in Court houses dear.

Can one carry in retail establishments? NOTE, I am asking questions, I know of no one who carries a gun into a grocery store...

If the retail store sells alcohol it is illegal in some places.
Also stores in most places can ban weapons if they choose.

Well, they can put up signs, but they carry no legal weight in most states.
In Alabama, a sign saying "No guns allowed" has no standing. I'd bet 1 in 10 men at Wall-mart are strapped. The thing is, if you are doing it right, no one knows.
If you screw up and someone notices that you are carrying, management CAN ask you to leave. It becomes a trespassing offense if you refuse to leave, but not a firearm offense.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Like the saying goes..An armed society is a polite society.

....At least, that's what the NRA's brochures....

....for their membership o' $UCKER$....

.....says.

 

[AmericanFirst]

a sizable percentage of American citizens are diametrically opposed to allowing concealed weapons in public areas, period...

I was hoping we might hear from someone representing that point of view...

I am opposed to people carrying concealed weapons in most public facilities.

That just makes them targets for criminals. Lets all sing kumbaya and hope the criminals play nice okay? meantime I will carry.

 

[Douger]

Well. I live in the land of the free so if you can afford and register a gun you can carry it however you'd like. They have to be registered,by law. If it's not registered it's three years in the can, no questions asked.
I bought a super nice pre WW2 Mauser .22 long rifle from an old guy down the street.Never registered. His dad had it for 50 years +.
Made the call, delivered it to a gun shop,the "inspectors"checked out. Now it's in my name. No biggie.

 

[Peach]

a sizable percentage of American citizens are diametrically opposed to allowing concealed weapons in public areas, period...

I was hoping we might hear from someone representing that point of view...

I am opposed to people carrying concealed weapons in most public facilities.

That just makes them targets for criminals. Lets all sing kumbaya and hope the criminals play nice okay? meantime I will carry.

I am referring to City Hall, County buildings, restaurants, taverns and playgrounds. Carrying a concealed weapons is obviously ok when one is travelling, driving to any location, or in a neighborhood considered "high crime".

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I am opposed to people carrying concealed weapons in most public facilities.

That just makes them targets for criminals. Lets all sing kumbaya and hope the criminals play nice okay? meantime I will carry.

I am referring to City Hall, County buildings, restaurants, taverns and playgrounds. Carrying a concealed weapons is obviously ok when one is travelling, driving to any location, or in a neighborhood considered "high crime".

Generally it is illegal to carry in Government facilities. Depends on the State and the specific function of the Government building. And in some States one can get a waiver to carry in certain Government buildings, However I believe that it is illegal to carry in any Federal Building.

 

[Peach]

That just makes them targets for criminals. Lets all sing kumbaya and hope the criminals play nice okay? meantime I will carry.

I am referring to City Hall, County buildings, restaurants, taverns and playgrounds. Carrying a concealed weapons is obviously ok when one is travelling, driving to any location, or in a neighborhood considered "high crime".

Generally it is illegal to carry in Government facilities. Depends on the State and the specific function of the Government building. And in some States one can get a waiver to carry in certain Government buildings, However I believe that it is illegal to carry in any Federal Building.

Yes, and in some state buildings here in Florida.

 

[Ernie S.]

Are you dumb, you know how long it takes one man to shoot 43 people? Good God you are ignorant.

No, not from personal experience, that is why I am asking questions of those familiar with firearms.

Lets assume that he had a 15 round magazine and that he managed to only shoot each person once, he would have to reload twice. It takes several seconds to aim and fire, I assume he was in no hurry. Lets say 5 seconds per person and 10 seconds to reload. Add in about 30 seconds for moving around. Getting the idea yet. If you were not the first person shot you had a hell of a long time to draw and fire if armed that had nothing to do with eating.

Personally if I am ever in a situation like that I will not meekly cower and wait to be shot, I will charge the asshole and make him work for his kill.

I think you are way off in your time estimate. If all the perp wanted to do is kill random people in a restaurant, one second/shot and 2 or 3 seconds to change clips is well within the realm of possibility for a reasonably competent shooter. I've put 18 rounds in the black at 25 feet with a Colt 1911 in 15 seconds. Granted, it was one target, so I didn't have to choose my next victim.
If ever I am put in that situation. I will not charge the shooter, I would take immediate cover and put 2 rounds through his heart.
Charging would draw his attention. It's a lot easier for him to his a target coming towards him that it would be for you to get off a good shot while running. Take your time. Take cover. Look beyond your target for innocents. Take aim. Take his life.

 

[bayoubill]

I am opposed to people carrying concealed weapons in most public facilities.

That just makes them targets for criminals. Lets all sing kumbaya and hope the criminals play nice okay? meantime I will carry.

I am referring to City Hall, County buildings, restaurants, taverns and playgrounds. Carrying a concealed weapons is obviously ok when one is travelling, driving to any location, or in a neighborhood considered "high crime".

Some places, particularly government facilities, require that all people who enter go through a screening process, including metal detectors. In such places, I would feel safe knowing that no one, other than the police/security force, is carrying firearms.

In other places that have no such screening process, like restaurants, taverns and playgrounds, I would feel safe knowing that there are citizens who are legally carrying concealed weapons.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

No, not from personal experience, that is why I am asking questions of those familiar with firearms.

Lets assume that he had a 15 round magazine and that he managed to only shoot each person once, he would have to reload twice. It takes several seconds to aim and fire, I assume he was in no hurry. Lets say 5 seconds per person and 10 seconds to reload. Add in about 30 seconds for moving around. Getting the idea yet. If you were not the first person shot you had a hell of a long time to draw and fire if armed that had nothing to do with eating.

Personally if I am ever in a situation like that I will not meekly cower and wait to be shot, I will charge the asshole and make him work for his kill.

I think you are way off in your time estimate. If all the perp wanted to do is kill random people in a restaurant, one second/shot and 2 or 3 seconds to change clips is well within the realm of possibility for a reasonably competent shooter. I've put 18 rounds in the black at 25 feet with a Colt 1911 in 15 seconds. Granted, it was one target, so I didn't have to choose my next victim.
If ever I am put in that situation. I will not charge the shooter, I would take immediate cover and put 2 rounds through his heart.
Charging would draw his attention. It's a lot easier for him to his a target coming towards him that it would be for you to get off a good shot while running. Take your time. Take cover. Look beyond your target for innocents. Take aim. Take his life.

I don't own a Handgun anymore, My daughter lost it. I doubt I buy another. Further I once tried suicide, I doubt the State would approve me for concealed carry. My options are wait to die or act. I will act.

 

[bayoubill]

As opposed to low-profile shooting incidents where guns were not prohibited. Very disingenuous.

so... please tell us about these "low-profile shooting incidents where guns were not prohibited" of which you are apparently so knowledgeable...

I'm not knowledgeable about them. But apparently neither are you, which was my point. In your previous post you were referencing high-profile incidents at gun-free zones as evidence of your argument. You made no mention of other shooting incidents, such as ones that are low-profile or in areas where guns are allowed. You were being disingenuous.

your accusation of disingenuousness rings false...

I wasn't trying to shore up an argument... I was trying to answer a question...

and I did indeed mention a shooting incident where guns were allowed...


if you want to provide specifics regarding low-profile shooting incidents, I would welcome the information...

 

[bayoubill]

What are the homicide and suicide rates in such areas?



What are the homicide and suicide rates in such areas?

you can do your own research to answer your specific question...

So you have no idea. And since you don't, upon what data do you base your opinion?

but nearly all of the high-profile shooting incidents have been in areas (schools, restaurants, etc.) where guns were prohibited... the only exception I can think of is the Giffords shooting in Arizona...

These are anecdotes, not data.

Let's back up a bit and review the situation...

I put up a poll question in the OP, and used neutral language to frame the poll question to the extent possible...

and while, in subsequent posts, I may have posted information that lends credence to a particular side of the issue, I have tried to refrain from giving my opinion on the subject...


admittedly, that last post you cited was anecdotal,

but, to my knowledge, it's based on facts...

if you have evidence to the contrary, I'd appreciate it if you'd share it with us...

 

[Peach]

you can do your own research to answer your specific question...

So you have no idea. And since you don't, upon what data do you base your opinion?

but nearly all of the high-profile shooting incidents have been in areas (schools, restaurants, etc.) where guns were prohibited... the only exception I can think of is the Giffords shooting in Arizona...

These are anecdotes, not data.

Let's back up a bit and review the situation...

I put up a poll question in the OP, and used neutral language to frame the poll question to the extent possible...

and while, in subsequent posts, I may have posted information that lends credence to a particular side of the issue, I have tried to refrain from giving my opinion on the subject...


admittedly, that last post you cited was anecdotal,

but, to my knowledge, it's based on facts...

if you have evidence to the contrary, I'd appreciate it if you'd share it with us...

The Geneva County killings in 2009 took place in a neighborhood, and other parts of the county. I doubt there was a "gun ban" in effect.

 

[westwall]

No, not from personal experience, that is why I am asking questions of those familiar with firearms.

Lets assume that he had a 15 round magazine and that he managed to only shoot each person once, he would have to reload twice. It takes several seconds to aim and fire, I assume he was in no hurry. Lets say 5 seconds per person and 10 seconds to reload. Add in about 30 seconds for moving around. Getting the idea yet. If you were not the first person shot you had a hell of a long time to draw and fire if armed that had nothing to do with eating.

Personally if I am ever in a situation like that I will not meekly cower and wait to be shot, I will charge the asshole and make him work for his kill.

I think you are way off in your time estimate. If all the perp wanted to do is kill random people in a restaurant, one second/shot and 2 or 3 seconds to change clips is well within the realm of possibility for a reasonably competent shooter. I've put 18 rounds in the black at 25 feet with a Colt 1911 in 15 seconds. Granted, it was one target, so I didn't have to choose my next victim.
If ever I am put in that situation. I will not charge the shooter, I would take immediate cover and put 2 rounds through his heart.
Charging would draw his attention. It's a lot easier for him to his a target coming towards him that it would be for you to get off a good shot while running. Take your time. Take cover. Look beyond your target for innocents. Take aim. Take his life.

Distance rewards skill. The better you are the farther you can engage a target from. That means that skilled people survive more often.