A Question About Guns In Public

[Old Rocks]

I have been in one situation where having a 12 gauge saved my life. Only one, and that will probably be the last one. But we just recently had an incident where a person with a concealed carry permit was robbed at gunpoint in his little store. As soon as the miscreant ran out the door, the store owner pulled his iron, ran out after him, and started shooting at him in a crowded street. Did not hit him, and, fortunetly, no other innocent citizens, either. But it did cost the store owner some jail time, and his permit.

All too many people lack common sense with a gun. And, in the heat of the moment, handle it recklessly, endangering the public more than the miscreant they are after.

 

[Peach]

here's one...

Luby's massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Would someone EATING have the foresight to remove the firearm, aim, and hit the crazed killer before the killer shot THEM?

Yes.

If you believe that is true, it might have prevented that mass killing, still, with people armed where alcohol is served, I would foresee many more killings.

 

[Bigfoot]

Would someone EATING have the foresight to remove the firearm, aim, and hit the crazed killer before the killer shot THEM?

Yes.

If you believe that is true, it might have prevented that mass killing, still, with people armed where alcohol is served, I would foresee many more killings.

I do not know of any states that let a CCW holder carry a weapon where alcohol is served. Laws vary but I think that one is pretty solid.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I was thinking along lines of restaurants, taverns, and libraries actually.

here's one...

Luby's massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In response to the massacre, the Texas Legislature in 1995 passed a shall-issue gun law, which requires that all qualifying applicants be issued a Concealed Handgun License (the state's required permit to carry concealed weapons), removing the personal discretion of the issuing authority to deny such licenses. To qualify for a license, one must be free-and-clear of crimes, attend a minimum 10-hour class taught by a state-certified instructor, pass a 50-question test, show proficiency in a 50-round shooting test, and pass two background tests, one shallow and one deep. The license costs $240 to $290, depending on the added instructor's fee.

The law had been campaigned for by Dr. Suzanna Hupp, who was present at the time of the shootout where both of her parents were shot and killed. She later expressed regret for obeying the law by leaving her firearm in her car rather than keeping it on her person due to the fact that it could have cost her her chiropractic license.

Would someone EATING have the foresight to remove the firearm, aim, and hit the crazed killer before the killer shot THEM?

Cops don't eat while they are on duty?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Where would you feel safer…?

an open-access area (municipal park, university, shopping mall, store, restaurant, etc.) where the carrying of concealed weapons is strictly prohibited…?

or an open-access area (municipal park, university, shopping mall, store, restaurant, etc.) that permits law-abiding adult citizens to carry concealed weapons…?


eta: the areas of consideration would also include all general-public areas (streets, sidewalks, etc.) within a municipality...

Criminals do not abide by any no guns allowed sign. How many mass shoots have we had at a gun show? A shooting range?

I was thinking along lines of restaurants, taverns, and libraries actually.

You have more mass shootings at those places than you do at places were it's known that others have a gun.

 

[bayoubill]

Well, we have a good example of someone with a concealed carry permit that should never have had one in Florida right now.

True, and many businesses have metal detectors in this day & age.

actually, those detectors only screen for shoplifters leaving the store...

 

[Peach]

here's one...

Luby's massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Would someone EATING have the foresight to remove the firearm, aim, and hit the crazed killer before the killer shot THEM?

Peach, much as I love ya, you're gonna hafta eat your words on this one...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1u0Byq5Qis]Suzanna Gratia Hupp explains meaning of 2nd Amendment! - YouTube[/ame]

I asked a QUESTION bayou. I do not doubt this woman wishes SHE had been armed that day. But some public places are not suitable for firearms. With metal detectors to prevent shoplifting, how will grocery, drugstores, and retail shopping outlets handle all the concealed carry customers?

 

[8537]

Yes.

If you believe that is true, it might have prevented that mass killing, still, with people armed where alcohol is served, I would foresee many more killings.

I do not know of any states that let a CCW holder carry a weapon where alcohol is served. Laws vary but I think that one is pretty solid.

I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure you can carry a concealed weapon in a bar in my state, Vermont. We don't need a permit for concealed carry, it's by right.

I've been wrong before

 

[Peach]

Well, we have a good example of someone with a concealed carry permit that should never have had one in Florida right now.

True, and many businesses have metal detectors in this day & age.

actually, those detectors only screen for shoplifters leaving the store...

Courthouses check both going in & out. A couple restaurants I know of have separate entrances & exits, true.

 

[bayoubill]

Would someone EATING have the foresight to remove the firearm, aim, and hit the crazed killer before the killer shot THEM?

Yes.

If you believe that is true, it might have prevented that mass killing, still, with people armed where alcohol is served, I would foresee many more killings.

amazingly, no matter whether or not it's legal to have guns in bars, bars are one of the few places that never seem to have shooting incidents...

 

[Peach]

Yes.

If you believe that is true, it might have prevented that mass killing, still, with people armed where alcohol is served, I would foresee many more killings.

amazingly, no matter whether or not it's legal to have guns in bars, bars are one of the few places that never seem to have shooting incidents...

With everyone armed, that might change................................

 

[bayoubill]

Would someone EATING have the foresight to remove the firearm, aim, and hit the crazed killer before the killer shot THEM?

Peach, much as I love ya, you're gonna hafta eat your words on this one...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1u0Byq5Qis]Suzanna Gratia Hupp explains meaning of 2nd Amendment! - YouTube[/ame]

I asked a QUESTION bayou. I do not doubt this woman wishes SHE had been armed that day. But some public places are not suitable for firearms. With metal detectors to prevent shoplifting, how will grocery, drugstores, and retail shopping outlets handle all the concealed carry customers?

sigh... okay... let's go back to your original question... which was "Would someone EATING have the foresight to remove the firearm, aim, and hit the crazed killer before the killer shot THEM?"

To answer your question, Ms. Hupp was huddled down with her parents as the killer made his way around the restaurant. While she and her parents waited for the killer to make his way to them, she had plenty of time to pull out her pistol and take the killer down, but she had left her pistol in her car because the prevailing laws at the time prevented her from legally bringing it in with her in her purse. As a result, she was unable to prevent the killer from killing her parents.

Regarding your second remark... "But some public places are not suitable for firearms. With metal detectors to prevent shoplifting, how will grocery, drugstores, and retail shopping outlets handle all the concealed carry customers?"...

If bad guys are capable of shooting up restaurants, what makes you think they are incapable of shooting up grocery stores, drugstores, and retail shopping outlets...?

and, btw... hate to bust your safety-zone bubble, but those metal detectors to prevent shoplifting have absolutely nothing to do with detecting people walking in with concealed weapons...

 

[bayoubill]

If you believe that is true, it might have prevented that mass killing, still, with people armed where alcohol is served, I would foresee many more killings.

amazingly, no matter whether or not it's legal to have guns in bars, bars are one of the few places that never seem to have shooting incidents...

With everyone armed, that might change................................

everyone's already armed... 'cept me and you... ;-)

 

[Peach]

Peach, much as I love ya, you're gonna hafta eat your words on this one...

Suzanna Gratia Hupp explains meaning of 2nd Amendment! - YouTube

I asked a QUESTION bayou. I do not doubt this woman wishes SHE had been armed that day. But some public places are not suitable for firearms. With metal detectors to prevent shoplifting, how will grocery, drugstores, and retail shopping outlets handle all the concealed carry customers?

sigh... okay... let's go back to your original question... which was "Would someone EATING have the foresight to remove the firearm, aim, and hit the crazed killer before the killer shot THEM?"

To answer your question, Ms. Hupp was huddled down with her parents as the killer made his way around the restaurant. While she and her parents waited for the killer to make his way to them, she had plenty of time to pull out her pistol and take the killer down, but she had left her pistol in her car because the prevailing laws at the time prevented her from legally bringing it in with her in her purse. As a result, she was unable to prevent the killer from killing her parents.

Regarding your second remark... "But some public places are not suitable for firearms. With metal detectors to prevent shoplifting, how will grocery, drugstores, and retail shopping outlets handle all the concealed carry customers?"...

If bad guys are capable of shooting up restaurants, what makes you think they are incapable of shooting up grocery stores, drugstores, and retail shopping outlets...?

and, btw... hate to bust your safety-zone bubble, but those metal detectors to prevent shoplifting have absolutely nothing to do with detecting people walking in with concealed weapons...

A bit beyond "bad guys"; I am asking questions to get the viewpoints of those that disagree with me, I do change my mind on issues WITH enough information. Now, back to retail shopping, when someone carrying carrying a concealed weapon LEAVES the store, would the buzzer go off?

 

[Bigfoot]

If you believe that is true, it might have prevented that mass killing, still, with people armed where alcohol is served, I would foresee many more killings.

I do not know of any states that let a CCW holder carry a weapon where alcohol is served. Laws vary but I think that one is pretty solid.

I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure you can carry a concealed weapon in a bar in my state, Vermont. We don't need a permit for concealed carry, it's by right.

I've been wrong before

Yeah, Vermont is a special case, I bet it is a nice place to live if a guy can get past all of the snow and cold.

You may be correct, I just don't feel like looking up everything state by state. I do purchase a new book every year to review any laws where I may plan to travel.

 

[bayoubill]

I asked a QUESTION bayou. I do not doubt this woman wishes SHE had been armed that day. But some public places are not suitable for firearms. With metal detectors to prevent shoplifting, how will grocery, drugstores, and retail shopping outlets handle all the concealed carry customers?

sigh... okay... let's go back to your original question... which was "Would someone EATING have the foresight to remove the firearm, aim, and hit the crazed killer before the killer shot THEM?"

To answer your question, Ms. Hupp was huddled down with her parents as the killer made his way around the restaurant. While she and her parents waited for the killer to make his way to them, she had plenty of time to pull out her pistol and take the killer down, but she had left her pistol in her car because the prevailing laws at the time prevented her from legally bringing it in with her in her purse. As a result, she was unable to prevent the killer from killing her parents.

Regarding your second remark... "But some public places are not suitable for firearms. With metal detectors to prevent shoplifting, how will grocery, drugstores, and retail shopping outlets handle all the concealed carry customers?"...

If bad guys are capable of shooting up restaurants, what makes you think they are incapable of shooting up grocery stores, drugstores, and retail shopping outlets...?

and, btw... hate to bust your safety-zone bubble, but those metal detectors to prevent shoplifting have absolutely nothing to do with detecting people walking in with concealed weapons...

A bit beyond "bad guys"; I am asking questions to get the viewpoints of those that disagree with me, I do change my mind on issues WITH enough information. Now, back to retail shopping, when someone carrying carrying a concealed weapon LEAVES the store, would the buzzer go off?

I appreciate your thoughtful questions, Peach...

I also ask questions to get the viewpoints of those that disagree with me...

now, to get back to your question: the buzzer goes off only if a person tries to leave the store with unpaid-for merchandise... it has nothing at all to do with whether or not the person is carrying a gun... unless, of course, he's trying to shoplift a gun, which is highly unlikely under any circumstances...

 

[Peach]

sigh... okay... let's go back to your original question... which was "Would someone EATING have the foresight to remove the firearm, aim, and hit the crazed killer before the killer shot THEM?"

To answer your question, Ms. Hupp was huddled down with her parents as the killer made his way around the restaurant. While she and her parents waited for the killer to make his way to them, she had plenty of time to pull out her pistol and take the killer down, but she had left her pistol in her car because the prevailing laws at the time prevented her from legally bringing it in with her in her purse. As a result, she was unable to prevent the killer from killing her parents.

Regarding your second remark... "But some public places are not suitable for firearms. With metal detectors to prevent shoplifting, how will grocery, drugstores, and retail shopping outlets handle all the concealed carry customers?"...

If bad guys are capable of shooting up restaurants, what makes you think they are incapable of shooting up grocery stores, drugstores, and retail shopping outlets...?

and, btw... hate to bust your safety-zone bubble, but those metal detectors to prevent shoplifting have absolutely nothing to do with detecting people walking in with concealed weapons...

A bit beyond "bad guys"; I am asking questions to get the viewpoints of those that disagree with me, I do change my mind on issues WITH enough information. Now, back to retail shopping, when someone carrying carrying a concealed weapon LEAVES the store, would the buzzer go off?

I appreciate your thoughtful questions, Peach...

I also ask questions to get the viewpoints of those that disagree with me...

now, to get back to your question: the buzzer goes off only if a person tries to leave the store with unpaid-for merchandise... it has nothing at all to do with whether or not the person is carrying a gun... unless, of course, he's trying to shoplift a gun, which is highly unlikely under any circumstances...

Thanks, I do not shoplift, so I wondered. I have had the buzzer go off when leaving, and be told it was my "car keys".

 

[Wacky Quacky]

you can do your own research to answer your specific question...

but nearly all of the high-profile shooting incidents have been in areas (schools, restaurants, etc.) where guns were prohibited... the only exception I can think of is the Giffords shooting in Arizona...


btw, what bearing would suicide rates have in a discussion about concealed weapons in public places...?

As opposed to low-profile shooting incidents where guns were not prohibited. Very disingenuous.

so... please tell us about these "low-profile shooting incidents where guns were not prohibited" of which you are apparently so knowledgeable...

I'm not knowledgeable about them. But apparently neither are you, which was my point. In your previous post you were referencing high-profile incidents at gun-free zones as evidence of your argument. You made no mention of other shooting incidents, such as ones that are low-profile or in areas where guns are allowed. You were being disingenuous.

 

[westwall]

The risk of those not "law abiding" getting the firearm, accidental discharge, and "heat of the moment" crimes.

Accidental discharge is almost unheard of in concealed carry. So you would base a decision on the remote chance some gun may go off and harm the person carrying it? Hell accidental deaths from firearms are almost unheard of. less than a 1000 a year.

As for some criminal getting the weapon? It is CONCEALED CARRY, no one knows who has what. How exactly does the bad guy get the weapon?

Heat of the moment? Again almost unheard of with concealed carry.

Just admit you are afraid of weapons and don't want anyone to have them. Then admit since you can not stop criminals from having them you have unreasonable fears about law abiding citizens having them.

Almost..., almost..., almost! That's the rub isn't it? It doesn't actually prevent crime, just adds another possible danger point.

According to every study ever done concealed weapons laws DO reduce crime. There has been at least one county by county study and showed a certifiable drop in crime when civilians were allowed to carry concealed. And it wasn't a small drop either.

 

[konradv]

Criminals do not abide by any no guns allowed sign. How many mass shoots have we had at a gun show? A shooting range?

I was thinking along lines of restaurants, taverns, and libraries actually.

here's one...

Luby's massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Luby's massacre was a mass murder that took place on October 16, 1991, in Killeen, Texas, when George Hennard drove his pickup truck into a Luby's cafeteria and shot 23 people to death while wounding another 20, subsequently committing suicide by shooting himself. It was the deadliest shooting rampage in American history until the 2007 Virginia Tech massacre.

In response to the massacre, the Texas Legislature in 1995 passed a shall-issue gun law, which requires that all qualifying applicants be issued a Concealed Handgun License (the state's required permit to carry concealed weapons), removing the personal discretion of the issuing authority to deny such licenses. To qualify for a license, one must be free-and-clear of crimes, attend a minimum 10-hour class taught by a state-certified instructor, pass a 50-question test, show proficiency in a 50-round shooting test, and pass two background tests, one shallow and one deep. The license costs $240 to $290, depending on the added instructor's fee.

The law had been campaigned for by Dr. Suzanna Hupp, who was present at the time of the shootout where both of her parents were shot and killed. She later expressed regret for obeying the law by leaving her firearm in her car rather than keeping it on her person due to the fact that it could have cost her her chiropractic license.

Hmmm..., all that and Texas still has over twice the firearm death rate of NY and NJ!!!