A Question About Guns In Public

[Wacky Quacky]

I am opposed to people carrying concealed weapons in most public facilities.

thanks, Peach...

could you expand upon that a bit...?

The risk of those not "law abiding" getting the firearm, accidental discharge, and "heat of the moment" crimes.

I was an armorer in the Marine Corps, and it's a real pet peeve of mine to hear people say "accidental discharge". There is no such thing as an "accidental" discharge. If your weapon fires and you didn't mean it to, then you were probably playing with it like a fucking idiot, or you had the safety off while concealing so you could feel like dirty harry.

Saying it was an accident is just a lame ass excuse for saying you're a fucking retard who isn't mature enough to own a gun.

 

[konradv]

Accidental discharge is almost unheard of in concealed carry. So you would base a decision on the remote chance some gun may go off and harm the person carrying it? Hell accidental deaths from firearms are almost unheard of. less than a 1000 a year.

As for some criminal getting the weapon? It is CONCEALED CARRY, no one knows who has what. How exactly does the bad guy get the weapon?

Heat of the moment? Again almost unheard of with concealed carry.

Just admit you are afraid of weapons and don't want anyone to have them. Then admit since you can not stop criminals from having them you have unreasonable fears about law abiding citizens having them.

Almost..., almost..., almost! That's the rub isn't it? It doesn't actually prevent crime, just adds another possible danger point.

Wrong, in every local where gun laws are lenient crime is lower or goes down. In places with the most draconian gun laws crime is rampant. Check out the crime rates and the murder rates in places like Chicago and Washington DC.

If you want to cherry-pick areas metropolitan areas, it may seem that way, but statistics prove its the red states that have the highest firearms death rates.

Firearms Death Rate per 100,000 statistics - states compared - Crime data on StateMaster

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Almost..., almost..., almost! That's the rub isn't it? It doesn't actually prevent crime, just adds another possible danger point.

Wrong, in every local where gun laws are lenient crime is lower or goes down. In places with the most draconian gun laws crime is rampant. Check out the crime rates and the murder rates in places like Chicago and Washington DC.

If you want to cherry-pick areas metropolitan areas, it may seem that way, but statistics prove its the red states that have the highest firearms death rates.

Firearms Death Rate per 100,000 statistics - states compared - Crime data on StateMaster

Statistics can be used to claim anything. I deal with reality.

 

[Peach]

Where would you feel safer…?

an open-access area (municipal park, university, shopping mall, store, restaurant, etc.) where the carrying of concealed weapons is strictly prohibited…?

or an open-access area (municipal park, university, shopping mall, store, restaurant, etc.) that permits law-abiding adult citizens to carry concealed weapons…?


eta: the areas of consideration would also include all general-public areas (streets, sidewalks, etc.) within a municipality...

Criminals do not abide by any no guns allowed sign. How many mass shoots have we had at a gun show? A shooting range?

I was thinking along lines of restaurants, taverns, and libraries actually.

 

[Wacky Quacky]

Accidental discharge is almost unheard of in concealed carry. So you would base a decision on the remote chance some gun may go off and harm the person carrying it? Hell accidental deaths from firearms are almost unheard of. less than a 1000 a year.

As for some criminal getting the weapon? It is CONCEALED CARRY, no one knows who has what. How exactly does the bad guy get the weapon?

Heat of the moment? Again almost unheard of with concealed carry.

Just admit you are afraid of weapons and don't want anyone to have them. Then admit since you can not stop criminals from having them you have unreasonable fears about law abiding citizens having them.

Almost..., almost..., almost! That's the rub isn't it? It doesn't actually prevent crime, just adds another possible danger point.

Wrong, in every local where gun laws are lenient crime is lower or goes down. In places with the most draconian gun laws crime is rampant. Check out the crime rates and the murder rates in places like Chicago and Washington DC.

But, are low crime rates a result of lenient gun laws? Or, are lenient gun laws a result of low crime rates?

Look at most of the states with lenient gun laws. South Dakota, North Dakota, Vermont, Alaska, Montana. They are mostly rural areas with relatively low population and few to no major cities. To say that lenient gun laws are the cause of low crime rates is ignoring every other factor present.

 

[williepete]

When I lived in Panama, everyone who could afford a pistol carried one concealed. There was no way to know who was packing but it was common knowledge that probably most were. Crime was the highest in the poorest sections--where people didn't have the means to arm themselves. Regular stories circulated of old ladies protecting themselves from young thugs.

From my personal experience, I'd opt for concealed carry with very few gun free zones.

 

[8537]

Until 19 year old drunk college kids can carry shoulder-fired grenade launchers in their baggy pants while playing beer-pong in bars, none of us can truly be free.

 

[bayoubill]

Where would you feel safer…?

an open-access area (municipal park, university, shopping mall, store, restaurant, etc.) where the carrying of concealed weapons is strictly prohibited…?

What are the homicide and suicide rates in such areas?

or an open-access area (municipal park, university, shopping mall, store, restaurant, etc.) that permits law-abiding adult citizens to carry concealed weapons…?

What are the homicide and suicide rates in such areas?

you can do your own research to answer your specific question...

but nearly all of the high-profile shooting incidents have been in areas (schools, restaurants, etc.) where guns were prohibited... the only exception I can think of is the Giffords shooting in Arizona...


btw, what bearing would suicide rates have in a discussion about concealed weapons in public places...?

 

[konradv]

Wrong, in every local where gun laws are lenient crime is lower or goes down. In places with the most draconian gun laws crime is rampant. Check out the crime rates and the murder rates in places like Chicago and Washington DC.

If you want to cherry-pick areas metropolitan areas, it may seem that way, but statistics prove its the red states that have the highest firearms death rates.

Firearms Death Rate per 100,000 statistics - states compared - Crime data on StateMaster

Statistics can be used to claim anything. I deal with reality.

LOL!!! Forget facts, I'll believe what I believe, eh? That's hardly reality. Reality states that Alaska has four times the rate of New York or New Jersey! How do you explain that? We're not talking made-up statistics we get from gun proponents based on mere "feelings". What I posted are actual DATA taken from police reports nationwide.

 

[bayoubill]

The risk of those not "law abiding" getting the firearm, accidental discharge, and "heat of the moment" crimes.

Accidental discharge is almost unheard of in concealed carry. So you would base a decision on the remote chance some gun may go off and harm the person carrying it? Hell accidental deaths from firearms are almost unheard of. less than a 1000 a year.

As for some criminal getting the weapon? It is CONCEALED CARRY, no one knows who has what. How exactly does the bad guy get the weapon?

Heat of the moment? Again almost unheard of with concealed carry.

Just admit you are afraid of weapons and don't want anyone to have them. Then admit since you can not stop criminals from having them you have unreasonable fears about law abiding citizens having them.

Almost..., almost..., almost! That's the rub isn't it? It doesn't actually prevent crime, just adds another possible danger point.

nothing in life is 100% safe...

 

[Wacky Quacky]

Where would you feel safer…?

an open-access area (municipal park, university, shopping mall, store, restaurant, etc.) where the carrying of concealed weapons is strictly prohibited…?

What are the homicide and suicide rates in such areas?

or an open-access area (municipal park, university, shopping mall, store, restaurant, etc.) that permits law-abiding adult citizens to carry concealed weapons…?

What are the homicide and suicide rates in such areas?

you can do your own research to answer your specific question...

but nearly all of the high-profile shooting incidents have been in areas (schools, restaurants, etc.) where guns were prohibited... the only exception I can think of is the Giffords shooting in Arizona...


btw, what bearing would suicide rates have in a discussion about concealed weapons in public places...?

As opposed to low-profile shooting incidents where guns were not prohibited. Very disingenuous.

 

[konradv]

Since some seem to be enthralled by anecdotes and disdain statistics, here's mine. I've lived most of my life in and around major cities, but the only time I've ever had a gun pulled on me was in the country by a moron who couldn't tell the difference between fireworks and a gunshot!

 

[bayoubill]

Where would you feel safer…?

an open-access area (municipal park, university, shopping mall, store, restaurant, etc.) where the carrying of concealed weapons is strictly prohibited…?

or an open-access area (municipal park, university, shopping mall, store, restaurant, etc.) that permits law-abiding adult citizens to carry concealed weapons…?


eta: the areas of consideration would also include all general-public areas (streets, sidewalks, etc.) within a municipality...

Criminals do not abide by any no guns allowed sign. How many mass shoots have we had at a gun show? A shooting range?

I was thinking along lines of restaurants, taverns, and libraries actually.

here's one...

Luby's massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Luby's massacre was a mass murder that took place on October 16, 1991, in Killeen, Texas, when George Hennard drove his pickup truck into a Luby's cafeteria and shot 23 people to death while wounding another 20, subsequently committing suicide by shooting himself. It was the deadliest shooting rampage in American history until the 2007 Virginia Tech massacre.

In response to the massacre, the Texas Legislature in 1995 passed a shall-issue gun law, which requires that all qualifying applicants be issued a Concealed Handgun License (the state's required permit to carry concealed weapons), removing the personal discretion of the issuing authority to deny such licenses. To qualify for a license, one must be free-and-clear of crimes, attend a minimum 10-hour class taught by a state-certified instructor, pass a 50-question test, show proficiency in a 50-round shooting test, and pass two background tests, one shallow and one deep. The license costs $240 to $290, depending on the added instructor's fee.

The law had been campaigned for by Dr. Suzanna Hupp, who was present at the time of the shootout where both of her parents were shot and killed. She later expressed regret for obeying the law by leaving her firearm in her car rather than keeping it on her person due to the fact that it could have cost her her chiropractic license.

 

[Robert_Stephens]

Where would you feel safer…?

an open-access area (municipal park, university, shopping mall, store, restaurant, etc.) where the carrying of concealed weapons is strictly prohibited…?

or an open-access area (municipal park, university, shopping mall, store, restaurant, etc.) that permits law-abiding adult citizens to carry concealed weapons…?


eta: the areas of consideration would also include all general-public areas (streets, sidewalks, etc.) within a municipality...

God created man, Sam Colt made them equal.

Always carry the M1911 .45 and the Remington 12 gauge magnum.

....never had any problems, save for Colombia, Argentina and Niger. Those 'problems' I had are no longer with us......

Robert

 

[Peach]

Criminals do not abide by any no guns allowed sign. How many mass shoots have we had at a gun show? A shooting range?

I was thinking along lines of restaurants, taverns, and libraries actually.

here's one...

Luby's massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Luby's massacre was a mass murder that took place on October 16, 1991, in Killeen, Texas, when George Hennard drove his pickup truck into a Luby's cafeteria and shot 23 people to death while wounding another 20, subsequently committing suicide by shooting himself. It was the deadliest shooting rampage in American history until the 2007 Virginia Tech massacre.

In response to the massacre, the Texas Legislature in 1995 passed a shall-issue gun law, which requires that all qualifying applicants be issued a Concealed Handgun License (the state's required permit to carry concealed weapons), removing the personal discretion of the issuing authority to deny such licenses. To qualify for a license, one must be free-and-clear of crimes, attend a minimum 10-hour class taught by a state-certified instructor, pass a 50-question test, show proficiency in a 50-round shooting test, and pass two background tests, one shallow and one deep. The license costs $240 to $290, depending on the added instructor's fee.

The law had been campaigned for by Dr. Suzanna Hupp, who was present at the time of the shootout where both of her parents were shot and killed. She later expressed regret for obeying the law by leaving her firearm in her car rather than keeping it on her person due to the fact that it could have cost her her chiropractic license.

Would someone EATING have the foresight to remove the firearm, aim, and hit the crazed killer before the killer shot THEM?

 

[bayoubill]

What are the homicide and suicide rates in such areas?



What are the homicide and suicide rates in such areas?

you can do your own research to answer your specific question...

but nearly all of the high-profile shooting incidents have been in areas (schools, restaurants, etc.) where guns were prohibited... the only exception I can think of is the Giffords shooting in Arizona...


btw, what bearing would suicide rates have in a discussion about concealed weapons in public places...?

As opposed to low-profile shooting incidents where guns were not prohibited. Very disingenuous.

so... please tell us about these "low-profile shooting incidents where guns were not prohibited" of which you are apparently so knowledgeable...

 

[Old Rocks]

Well, we have a good example of someone with a concealed carry permit that should never have had one in Florida right now.

 

[Peach]

Well, we have a good example of someone with a concealed carry permit that should never have had one in Florida right now.

True, and many businesses have metal detectors in this day & age.

 

[Bigfoot]

I was thinking along lines of restaurants, taverns, and libraries actually.

here's one...

Luby's massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In response to the massacre, the Texas Legislature in 1995 passed a shall-issue gun law, which requires that all qualifying applicants be issued a Concealed Handgun License (the state's required permit to carry concealed weapons), removing the personal discretion of the issuing authority to deny such licenses. To qualify for a license, one must be free-and-clear of crimes, attend a minimum 10-hour class taught by a state-certified instructor, pass a 50-question test, show proficiency in a 50-round shooting test, and pass two background tests, one shallow and one deep. The license costs $240 to $290, depending on the added instructor's fee.

The law had been campaigned for by Dr. Suzanna Hupp, who was present at the time of the shootout where both of her parents were shot and killed. She later expressed regret for obeying the law by leaving her firearm in her car rather than keeping it on her person due to the fact that it could have cost her her chiropractic license.

Would someone EATING have the foresight to remove the firearm, aim, and hit the crazed killer before the killer shot THEM?

Yes.

 

[bayoubill]

I was thinking along lines of restaurants, taverns, and libraries actually.

here's one...

Luby's massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In response to the massacre, the Texas Legislature in 1995 passed a shall-issue gun law, which requires that all qualifying applicants be issued a Concealed Handgun License (the state's required permit to carry concealed weapons), removing the personal discretion of the issuing authority to deny such licenses. To qualify for a license, one must be free-and-clear of crimes, attend a minimum 10-hour class taught by a state-certified instructor, pass a 50-question test, show proficiency in a 50-round shooting test, and pass two background tests, one shallow and one deep. The license costs $240 to $290, depending on the added instructor's fee.

The law had been campaigned for by Dr. Suzanna Hupp, who was present at the time of the shootout where both of her parents were shot and killed. She later expressed regret for obeying the law by leaving her firearm in her car rather than keeping it on her person due to the fact that it could have cost her her chiropractic license.

Would someone EATING have the foresight to remove the firearm, aim, and hit the crazed killer before the killer shot THEM?

Peach, much as I love ya, you're gonna hafta eat your words on this one...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1u0Byq5Qis]Suzanna Gratia Hupp explains meaning of 2nd Amendment! - YouTube[/ame]