A Question About Guns In Public

[Claudette]

When criminals start obeying the law, I'll support the idea of 'gun free' zones.

That's pretty much it. No matter the laws, anyone, anywhere, may have a concealed weapon on them. So the question of where do you feel safer, by virtue of gun laws, is moot.

Now, ask me where I feel safer based on location? That's a completely different question. I wouldn't feel safe in Compton no matter the gun laws, or if I was carrying a concealed weapon myself. While in my own local neighborhood I would feel safe seeing my neighbor cleaning his gun on his porch.

It's all about the people. Not the weapons or the laws.

True, but there is no way to determine what kind of people are in any public area. We know criminals make up a portion of society, though are more concentrated in some areas. I'd feel safer with law abiding people who are armed in the event a crazed shooter decides to take some people out.

We've had incidents of school shootings where the mentally disturbed shooter took time going around the school and killing students. Had one teacher been armed, the shooter may have been taken down quickly and lives would have been spared. Of course, the left would never allow that. They prefer to react after the fact by making more guns laws and they always try to convince people that more laws will prevent shootings. They don't possess the intelligence to understand that criminals are completely unaffected by laws. They merely restrict the citizens' ability to defend themselves.

Totally agree.

The person doing the shooting would get the surprise of his life if all his "victims" were armed and prepared to kill his ass.

Texas has gun laws where everyone can carry. When that law was passed the left was screaming that people would be shot accidently. It was an open ivitation to shootings all over the STate.

What happened. The crime rate went down.

 

[Nosmo King]

I have no problem with someone owning a gun and keeping it safely stored at home for personal defense. I have no problem with someone owning a gun for hunting and target shooting. I do not see the benefit of people carrying lethal weapons around as if they are tic tacs. Too much macho bravado and too many opportunities for a criminal to swipe a loaded gun from someone's hip.

I had hoped we could learn some lessons about frontier justice.

 

[bayoubill]

So you have no idea. And since you don't, upon what data do you base your opinion?




These are anecdotes, not data.

Let's back up a bit and review the situation...

I put up a poll question in the OP, and used neutral language to frame the poll question to the extent possible...

and while, in subsequent posts, I may have posted information that lends credence to a particular side of the issue, I have tried to refrain from giving my opinion on the subject...


admittedly, that last post you cited was anecdotal,

but, to my knowledge, it's based on facts...

if you have evidence to the contrary, I'd appreciate it if you'd share it with us...

The Geneva County killings in 2009 took place in a neighborhood, and other parts of the county. I doubt there was a "gun ban" in effect.

true...

but the instances I referred to were shootings that occurred at a single location with a crowd of people around... the kind of situation where, once the shooting started, an armed citizen carrying a concealed weapon could have stopped the killer...

as I recall, the killer in the Geneva County incident chose his victims at random at various locations with no crowd around, and in each instance, had the element of surprise... i.e., there was essentially no opportunity for an armed third party to intervene...

 

[Mr Natural]

Yes, we should return the the days of the old west when everyone was packing and shootouts were rare.

 

[bayoubill]

I have no problem with someone owning a gun and keeping it safely stored at home for personal defense. I have no problem with someone owning a gun for hunting and target shooting. I do not see the benefit of people carrying lethal weapons around as if they are tic tacs. Too much macho bravado and too many opportunities for a criminal to swipe a loaded gun from someone's hip.

I had hoped we could learn some lessons about frontier justice.

so... if you're in a crowd and, out of the blue, somebody starts shooting the people around you, you're not going to wish that at least one of your fellow potential victims is carrying a concealed handgun...?

 

[Nosmo King]

I have no problem with someone owning a gun and keeping it safely stored at home for personal defense. I have no problem with someone owning a gun for hunting and target shooting. I do not see the benefit of people carrying lethal weapons around as if they are tic tacs. Too much macho bravado and too many opportunities for a criminal to swipe a loaded gun from someone's hip.

I had hoped we could learn some lessons about frontier justice.

so... if you're in a crowd and, out of the blue, somebody starts shooting the people around you, you're not going to wish that at least one of your fellow potential victims is carrying a concealed handgun...?

I see that hypothetical as extremely remote. The hypothetical that scares the crap out of me is someone seeing an available gun on someone's hip and using that gun to commit a crime.

Police undergo rigorous training to carry and use guns in public places. The average person carrying a gun takes a Saturday morning course and then goes out for pancakes. Big difference.

 

[bayoubill]

I have no problem with someone owning a gun and keeping it safely stored at home for personal defense. I have no problem with someone owning a gun for hunting and target shooting. I do not see the benefit of people carrying lethal weapons around as if they are tic tacs. Too much macho bravado and too many opportunities for a criminal to swipe a loaded gun from someone's hip.

I had hoped we could learn some lessons about frontier justice.

so... if you're in a crowd and, out of the blue, somebody starts shooting the people around you, you're not going to wish that at least one of your fellow potential victims is carrying a concealed handgun...?

I see that hypothetical as extremely remote. The hypothetical that scares the crap out of me is someone seeing an available gun on someone's hip and using that gun to commit a crime.

Police undergo rigorous training to carry and use guns in public places. The average person carrying a gun takes a Saturday morning course and then goes out for pancakes. Big difference.

Speaking of extremely-remote hypothetical situations, the scenario of a criminal spotting a gun on a concealed-carry person and then stealing it is practically unheard of...

but I will admit that your second concern about undertrained average citizens is a valid one...

 

[Peach]

so... if you're in a crowd and, out of the blue, somebody starts shooting the people around you, you're not going to wish that at least one of your fellow potential victims is carrying a concealed handgun...?

I see that hypothetical as extremely remote. The hypothetical that scares the crap out of me is someone seeing an available gun on someone's hip and using that gun to commit a crime.

Police undergo rigorous training to carry and use guns in public places. The average person carrying a gun takes a Saturday morning course and then goes out for pancakes. Big difference.

Speaking of extremely-remote hypothetical situations, the scenario of a criminal spotting a gun on a concealed-carry person and then stealing it is practically unheard of...

but I will admit that your second concern about undertrained average citizens is a valid one...

I would guess most guns taken from an owner are from homes burglarized; people do not always secure weapons at home. Otherwise, during a fight wherein both parties are "criminals". Poorly trained users are also one of my concerns.

 

[bayoubill]

I see that hypothetical as extremely remote. The hypothetical that scares the crap out of me is someone seeing an available gun on someone's hip and using that gun to commit a crime.

Police undergo rigorous training to carry and use guns in public places. The average person carrying a gun takes a Saturday morning course and then goes out for pancakes. Big difference.

Speaking of extremely-remote hypothetical situations, the scenario of a criminal spotting a gun on a concealed-carry person and then stealing it is practically unheard of...

but I will admit that your second concern about undertrained average citizens is a valid one...

I would guess most guns taken from an owner are from homes burglarized; people do not always secure weapons at home. Otherwise, during a fight wherein both parties are "criminals". Poorly trained users are also one of my concerns.

yep...

 

[westwall]

I have no problem with someone owning a gun and keeping it safely stored at home for personal defense. I have no problem with someone owning a gun for hunting and target shooting. I do not see the benefit of people carrying lethal weapons around as if they are tic tacs. Too much macho bravado and too many opportunities for a criminal to swipe a loaded gun from someone's hip.

I had hoped we could learn some lessons about frontier justice.

so... if you're in a crowd and, out of the blue, somebody starts shooting the people around you, you're not going to wish that at least one of your fellow potential victims is carrying a concealed handgun...?

I see that hypothetical as extremely remote. The hypothetical that scares the crap out of me is someone seeing an available gun on someone's hip and using that gun to commit a crime.

Police undergo rigorous training to carry and use guns in public places. The average person carrying a gun takes a Saturday morning course and then goes out for pancakes. Big difference.

Actually the police don't. SOME police officers (on their own dime) will take advanced tactics and shooting classes. The vast majority however, are required to qualify with their weapons once a year. I have shot their courses many times and can qualify with my offhand. I ace it with my strong hand.

The police for the most part are woefully untrained in the proper use of their weapons...that's why you constantly hear about bad shootings and police filing false reports to cover their asses when they make mistakes. It's sad too, because the vast majority of officers are good concientious people who try to do a very difficult job with little public support.

The bad ones make all that good work fly out the window in the heartbeat of a wrong decision. Here in Nevada the required classes to obtain a CCW are significantly more difficult than what a peace officer must pass. Much more difficult.