a Nation of laziness!!

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Navy1960, Jul 17, 2009.

  1. Navy1960
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    Navy1960 Senior Member

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    III. SHARED RESPONSIBILITY
    The bill creates shared responsibility among individuals, employers and government to ensure that all Americans have affordable coverage of essential health benefits.

    Individual responsibility. Except in cases of hardship, once market reforms and affordability credits are in effect, individuals will be responsible for obtaining and maintaining health insurance coverage. Those who choose to not obtain coverage will pay a penalty of 2.5 percent of modified adjusted gross income above a specified level.

    House Summary America's Affordable Health Choice Act: July 14 2009 | OldenGoldenDecoy's Blog

    Let me assure EVERYONE here, I intend to use EVERY single resource I have available if this bill is passed to mount a constitutional challenge on it. The day it is passed I well go into Federal Court and seek an injunction until such time that the constitutional merits of this bill can be addressed. As congress see's fit not not only igonre the fact that NO ONE has a contitutional right to healthcare other than Federal prisioners it see's fit to pass mandates that it's citizens carry healthcare bypassing it. All of you who wish your healthcare to provided for you by the Federal Govt. don't expect it to be the nirvana you think it will be and SHAME on all of your for supporting this legislation that will relegate this nation to a 3rd world status all for your personal comfort. The facts are that this issue is an issue that needs to be addressed as a cost issue and not a mandate issue.This bill is a direct result of a culture of laziness and people expecting a government to solve each and every problem for them. It is a result of an education system that teaches shared responsibility over personal responsibility. This bill rises out of an expectation of those that grown up expecting others to provide for them and not having the ability to go out and provide for themselves. The facts are a vast majority of Americans already have healthcare coverage and half of the so called 48 million that are uninsured are uninsured because they choose to be. So this crisis is a crisis of those that have no desire to provide for themselves and their families and wish to take from their neighbors to make up for their own shortcommings as citizens. Yes, it's important that we as a nation reform costs in the healthcare system, but we do so as a Free nation keeping in mind that our nation was built on the premise that people are free to choose their own destiny. So all of you who support turning this nation into a 3rd world 3rd rate power whos largest employer is the Govt. and consumes everything, and produces nothing then by all means support this nation killing bill. I've heard all the stupid arguments on this bill based on the the so called 48 million and the evil insurance companies, and statistics from the WHO , if anyone had bothered to read the actual numbers would have seen that those numbers on healthcare in our natiuon also inluded murders and accidents in which we are also number one. It would seem to me if you wanted to have an effect on those statistics so badly then you would do something about those! However, that leads us back to the laziness issue doesn't it. I have heard it all, I can't afford it, I cannot get it because I have a pre-existing condition, then you know what, start your own health insurance company, start a co-op,apply for grants from the FED. or apply for state aide. There are many ways to get health insurance if you want it badly enough and also many ways to change the system if you wish to change it. However, mandating change on those who do not wish to change will leave you in a very bad situation.. One more thing to consider, you may now consider this my calling Barack Obama a liar, as on page 44 of the bill, indivuduals CAN I repeat CAN have their insurance taken away from them if the board does not think that they are conforming with the legislation. So much for if you like your insurance you can keep it, I will file that one with, unemployment won't rise above 8.5% with the passage of this bill we need right now.
     
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  2. Vel
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    Vel Gold Member

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    I wonder if it's even occurred to our politicians to look past the insurance industry in seeking solutions for healthcare reform? They seem stuck in their little box and can't seem to think outside it. I've seen nothing in the proposed legislation that actually targets reducing costs or even in looking at WHY costs have risen so dramatically in the recent past.
    For example, I recently went for a yearly check up. I needed a culture run and a blood test. I paid the doctor's office for the check up. I received a separate bill from a lab for the culture and was sent to a different clinic to have blood drawn and was billed by them as well. In previous years, all of the services I required were considered part of the check up and billed by the doctor's office at half the cost. Total cost for my routine checkup was $450.00 ( and I never saw a doctor..just a nurse practictioner ) I didn't see anything in the health care legislation that would address issues like this.
    If they want to truly lower the cost of medical care, they should look at increasing the number of doctors by perhaps subsidizing medical school tuition. If you want to lower cost on anything..increase supply.
     
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  3. Navy1960
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    Navy1960 Senior Member

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    It makes too much sense to do things like that and fix the real problems associated with healthcare Vel. There is too much political power at stake on this one, thus the reason they have to jam it through like the last two massive spending programs that are bankrupting this nation. You know if we only reformed illegal immigrant healthcare, and allowed for the formation of of co-ops that would save almost 900 billion over 10 year, but then again that does not translate into votes though. Thats what this is all about something they can point to and say look see what we did, gave you cheap healthcare, only problem is it's not cheap. Funny thing is all this talk about the underinsured or lack of coverage, and even in your own state they have programs like this,,

    Governor Phil Bredesen developed Cover Tennessee to create health insurance options that are affordable and portable, and meet the needs of the uninsured in our state. Cover Tennessee has four programs.

    CoverTN is a partnership between the state, employers and individuals that makes health care coverage affordable for the state's working uninsured.

    CoverKids offers free comprehensive health coverage to qualifying uninsured children in Tennessee, age 18 and younger.

    CoverRx offers affordable prescription drugs to Tennesseans who lack pharmacy coverage.

    AccessTN is comprehensive health insurance for adults who are uninsurable due to pre-existing conditions

    So I fail to understand what the Federal Govt. needs to do here, other than support the states that have programs like this? Makes no sense to me other than to turn this nation into a 3rd world nation dependant on others for all our goods and services. I'm ashamed at the nation we are leaving our children I truley am.
     
  4. sealybobo
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    sealybobo Diamond Member

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    Whatever. :cuckoo: What you said fixes none of the major problems we have with healthcare. Why don't you solve all the major problems instead of coming up with new ones? Are you trying to distract us or just confuse the conversation? You know what is wrong with healthcare? Parking! :cuckoo:

    And Navy is swallows every reason why we can't fix healthcare because the fact is, he wants the status quo too.

    Lets face it, if we read more of your writings, I bet you are in favor of the status quo. You're just coming up with new arguments everyday to obstruct any progress. Relax, us liberals have this issue covered.

    Don't believe the hype. Its going to get better.

    PS. Do you know how Canada did it? One Province at a time. So it may have to be passed state by state instead of nationally. We shall see.
     
  5. Navy1960
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    Navy1960 Senior Member

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    sealy healthcare is not a monolithic issue no matter how much you want it to be, there are many many factors that cause healthcare costs to rise. The bottom line is that if you don't fix them, and add to it you won't effect the cost of healthcare. I personally have no problem at ALL with individual states offering healthcare to its residents because that is the WILL of the people that live there and is a direct reflection of how this nation is actually supposed to work! In fact, let me give you an example, let's say half the states had healthcare coverage and half did not, would that not be an incentive for people to say come to Mi. instead of living where they do in order to get it? I believe that costs can be contained and can be fixed, it is the other side of the argument that believes that we must rush to a solution that will bankrupt this nation and subvert the contitution..
     
  6. Vel
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    Vel Gold Member

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    Why bless your little heart honey. It's ok not to be the brightest crayon in the box and if you've never had to take care of yourself, it's understandable that you'd be fearful of having to survive in a capitalistic system. This is a fairly simply capitalistic principle.. the greater the supply, the lower the cost. Reforming insurance is not the only answer to providing better quality and lower cost healthcare. There are other options out there and EVERYTHING should be considered rather than have a government takeover of another industry.
     
  7. mattskramer
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    mattskramer Senior Member

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    What is your position on the “Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act” also known as EMTALA? It requires hospitals and ambulance services to provide care to anyone needing emergency treatment regardless of citizenship, legal status or ability to pay. Don’t you think that government has no business getting involved in health care? If a hospital knows that Joe Smith is struggling to come into the hospital and has a life threatening condition, that Joe needs immediate care, and that Joe has no insurance and no financial resources, then that hospital should be free to have security escort Joe out to the curb. The hospital can have Joe carried outside and dumped off at the curb if Joe is in too much pain to walk. Don’t you agree? Leave the free market alone to do as it pleases as long as there is no fraud involved. “If you don’t have the money to pay for your care and you can’t find charity, then die in the street.”
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2009
  8. Navy1960
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    Navy1960 Senior Member

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    Do you know that the Govt. could in it's wisdom sponsor a program that provided grants through the SBA for people wishing to start companies that provided low cost health care to people. Just a thought to promote competetion, I fail to understand the logic behind thinking that with one big regulating body also competeing with health insurance that also promotes competetion. Has anyone seen recently how this theory has worked so well in the cell phone business? With less and less competetion and bigger and bigger companies your bill has done down? Or pehaps your local utility company is an even better example, have they because of all the competetion around also lowered your bill recently?
     
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  9. Navy1960
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    Navy1960 Senior Member

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    Let me put it to you this way, It's my opinion that any person regardless of ability to pay should have access to emergency care and that care should be provided and paid for on a local level. However, I do think that charity can also mean, giving those that you care for a hand up instread of a hand out. Let me explain, if someone cannot pay their emergency room bill and later recovers then they should be able to negotiate with the hospital to offer as way of volunteering to clean up , grounds work, whatever in order to pay that debt off asa community service effort. Further, I also think that in some cases people use emergency rooms as a means to manage their healthcare when education would do just as well. How many cases have you heard of when people bring their children into the ER for colds? or coughs? See what I mean? I think it's a give and take and people have lost the ability to look at this in a practical manner, and that is it's not cruel to suggest that someone who cannot afford to pay with money can afford to pay in other way's like community servivce.
     
  10. dilloduck
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    dilloduck Diamond Member

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    Exactly--and people who REALLY care will be there to help them when the hospital kicks em to the curb.
     

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