A Debate On Pain Medication Delivery

[FA_Q2]

People with no malice scoff at others pain all the time.....I am familiar with the doctors scale of pain 1-10 that is in fashion now-a-days.

I have suffered kidney stones and would rank it a strong 9. We are talking pain so violent that projectile vomiting from the pain is normal.

Apparently many people that have never suffered serious CP would list their "cramps" a 9 when in reality "cramps" for a few hours would be a 2 on my scale. They just do not know. It is high time they do.

Ouch! I understand the kidney stone problem and it's about an 8.5--9.0+ on anybody's scale. In 1966 I had surgery to repair a blocked ureter resulting from a pedestrian--truck accident (I was the pedestrian) fourteenth months previously. The pain was exactly what you would get from a kidney stone stuck in a ureter, except that it went on for nine months, destroyed 96% of the interior of the kidney from the fluid buildup, and caused me to drop from 145 pounds to 94 pounds (I'm 5'10"). Back in the day there was no such thing as morphine pumps. A nurse came in every four hours or so and you got stuck in the butt. After three days you got to go cold turkey. I have a 26" incision scar as a souvenir. That was surgery in the Marcus Welby era.

And yes, projectile vomiting is a good indication that the pain control is not working. So are second degree burns from heating pads you don't even notice. Add blurred vision and involuntary repetitive motion to the stew. Some people actually die from the pain and not the underlying condition. Blood pressure rises to the point the patient can stroke out. We don't keep statistics on how many people die from chronic and severe pain, or from suicide prompted by it; but my guess is that that number is several times the number of truly accidental overdoses.

WOW! You have certainly had a tortured relationship with the medical issues. The passage I boldined is more in line with the discussion I was hoping to generate.

The drug policy as it stands and where it is threatened to go has purposefully diminished the value of pain as a controllable entity and a responsibility for the medical community to address.

Throwing the corpses of foolish out of control people at the feet of responsible IN CONTROL people as a reason to deny them medical help is goulish and cynical.

This is what happens when you throw personal freedom out the window in favor of being ‘taken care’ of. What the government does with the drug industry is completely asinine. Here (Washington) you can’t get a common cold medication over the counter if it contains sudafedrin without delivering a whole list of personal information so they can track your usage because they are combating the evil methamphetamine labs by taking it away from the common user. I really hope you don’t get sick for over 7 days or the local government is going to kick in your door.

Surprisingly enough – it does not seem to have hampered meth production at all

We should be allowing patents and doctors to make those calls. Simple as that. Sure, abuse is a problem BUT that is a twofold issue that has nothing to do with the current ‘solution.’ Some people are going to make piss poor decisions and are going to abuse drugs. You are not stopping them by making it difficult for people to get required prescriptions through their doctors nor should a doctor be liable for the bad decisions that you make. Also, the control that is put on the drug industry makes alternative products damn near nonexistent. Someone mentioned pot in the thread already – just one example of a drug that can have a better result than the myriad of opiates that we deal in.

There is something to be said about doctors overusing some of the more powerful stuff though. I think that is a personal responsibility issue though. If a doctor says you can have morphine that does not mean that you have to take it. You are completely capable of asking for something else. There is no reason that those refusing to take charge of what they willingly place in their bodies should somehow effect the ability for the rest of us to use it when we NEED it. The idea that we are not the ultimate arbiters of our health is rather asinine.

I remember once we were in the hospital for some treatments for my son and we requested some Tylenol because he has some discomfort. The nurse went to go talk to the doc to see if we could get some and returned letting us know that the doc did not want him to take Tylenol because it might mask a fever. They were willing to give him some morphine though in its place.

Naturally I asked how we made the jump from Tylenol to morphine. There should be something a little less extreme. After leaving and coming back she had another solution – oxycodone. At that point we said we would just deal with it. He was uncomfortable, not in severe or even moderate pain and with the amounts of opiates and other very nasty drugs he has already been on there was little reason to pump him with some more without cause.

 

[editec]

This thread SHOULD HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH HILLBILLY HEROIN

Why?

Because the vast majority of people now addicted to Oxy originally got the med from the Doctors.

Their problem back pain should be treated with something less addictive.

Now do I doubt that some people need opiates for pain, that they will need them for th rest of their lives and that their addiction is medically necessary?

Not one bit.

But MOST^ people now using OXI in America do NOT NEED that much medication.

Most people get turned into junkies by the doctors.

I know at least 3 people this happened too.

Their original pain was not prohound enough to warrant opiates but now they're trapped by their opiate addiction.

Tough call I suppose for MDs and patients, too.

But ESHEW opiates if at all possible, CITIZENS (how's that, Huggy?) because OPIATES are DAMNED addictive.


I'd say the same thing about amphetimines being handed out like candy to our children and now to mature adult citizens, too.

Not one in ten people taking Ritalin actually needs ritalin.

Who to blame?

DOCTORS of course.

 

[oldfart]

I remember once we were in the hospital for some treatments for my son and we requested some Tylenol because he has some discomfort. The nurse went to go talk to the doc to see if we could get some and returned letting us know that the doc did not want him to take Tylenol because it might mask a fever. They were willing to give him some morphine though in its place.

Naturally I asked how we made the jump from Tylenol to morphine. There should be something a little less extreme. After leaving and coming back she had another solution – oxycodone. At that point we said we would just deal with it. He was uncomfortable, not in severe or even moderate pain and with the amounts of opiates and other very nasty drugs he has already been on there was little reason to pump him with some more without cause.

Unfortunately I don't think there is a non-opiod that is not an NSAID that would mask fever. For example, Fiorecet and Fiorinal work well on moderate pain containing butalbital, caffeine, and either aspirin or acetominaphen. But the last two are NSAIDs.

Maybe someone with a better grasp of pharmacology could help us here, but I can't think of one.

 

[gnarlylove]

My post was the result of skimming for key words that already fit my understanding of a debate on pain meds. So, definitely I was way off the mark. However, pain medication is prescribed in this country probably at much higher rates than is needed. This is a general trend of the health care industry and has very negative consequences given the addictive power of certain medications like oxy, hydrocodone etc.

I've taken care of people with CP and I've not known them to use paid medication. But that was 3 cases only so I am no expert. But as far as arguing for people doing the right thing who are denied pain medication is the result of how potent and serious the national problem is.

Around 700CE famous Chinese doctor Sun Si-miao said that when a person is sick, the doctor should first regulate the patient's diet and lifestyle. In most cases, these changes alone are enough to effect a cure over time. Only once these changes are identified as inadequate, says Sun Si-miao, should the doctor administer other interventions such as internal medicine and acupuncture. So there are plenty of routes to improve one's life without taking opiates if you are simply seeking a richer life. Opiates should be a later resort, although it's virtually impossible to expect the same level of pain suppression AND numbed out feeling opiates provide. But should one take significant doses of opiates to be numbed out? Sounds like part of the issue is simply coping with CP in the first place because no matter what, opiates will numb you out (above say 10mg).

 

[HUGGY]

My post was the result of skimming for key words that already fit my understanding of a debate on pain meds. So, definitely I was way off the mark. However, pain medication is prescribed in this country probably at much higher rates than is needed. This is a general trend of the health care industry and has very negative consequences given the addictive power of certain medications like oxy, hydrocodone etc.

I've taken care of people with CP and I've not known them to use paid medication. But that was 3 cases only so I am no expert. But as far as arguing for people doing the right thing who are denied pain medication is the result of how potent and serious the national problem is.

Around 700CE famous Chinese doctor Sun Si-miao said that when a person is sick, the doctor should first regulate the patient's diet and lifestyle. In most cases, these changes alone are enough to effect a cure over time. Only once these changes are identified as inadequate, says Sun Si-miao, should the doctor administer other interventions such as internal medicine and acupuncture. So there are plenty of routes to improve one's life without taking opiates if you are simply seeking a richer life. Opiates should be a later resort, although it's virtually impossible to expect the same level of pain suppression AND numbed out feeling opiates provide. But should one take significant doses of opiates to be numbed out? Sounds like part of the issue is simply coping with CP in the first place because no matter what, opiates will numb you out (above say 10mg).

There are thousands of ailments known to human kind. I advocate for those that have lived more than less of their years and have by that longevity learned enough about themselves that they do not need to be treated as if they are stupid or ignorant of the consequences of the choices they may want or HAVE to make to survive at whatever level or quality of ability they want.

Myself approaching 65 I have been to enough parties that I know when or not to get behind the wheel of an automobile. I have been under the influence of opiates as the result of injury and just worn out parts to know when to call a cab if I need to get to the doctor or a pharmacy or just to buy some groceries or other provisions.

Certainly there is a lesser quality of life by a healthy 19 year olds standards as one grows older and may need to numb the senses at times or even for the dururation of what time is left as the body naturally breaks down.

I am acutely aware that I am not a healthy 19 year old HUGGY. So are the people I write these word in behalf that THEY are not spring chickens either.

BUT we make up for the strength and endurance of youth with guile and treachery so this is fair warning to those that have pushed us to this.

 

[HUGGY]

I remember once we were in the hospital for some treatments for my son and we requested some Tylenol because he has some discomfort. The nurse went to go talk to the doc to see if we could get some and returned letting us know that the doc did not want him to take Tylenol because it might mask a fever. They were willing to give him some morphine though in its place.

Naturally I asked how we made the jump from Tylenol to morphine. There should be something a little less extreme. After leaving and coming back she had another solution – oxycodone. At that point we said we would just deal with it. He was uncomfortable, not in severe or even moderate pain and with the amounts of opiates and other very nasty drugs he has already been on there was little reason to pump him with some more without cause.

Unfortunately I don't think there is a non-opiod that is not an NSAID that would mask fever. For example, Fiorecet and Fiorinal work well on moderate pain containing butalbital, caffeine, and either aspirin or acetominaphen. But the last two are NSAIDs.

Maybe someone with a better grasp of pharmacology could help us here, but I can't think of one.

The care of the youth from birth to young adulthood is a field all of its own. I totally sympathize with the responsibility of those that as well as having to keep their own health issues in check must also supervise the handling of their offspring.

This is a thread concerning health issues of those of us that have not fallen in front of buses or taken chances ending our time here leaving us to fend off issues not from bad judgement but from the ravages of having outlived many that did not make all the right descisons along the way.

Stories about babies breath and his or her first asprin are cute as a bugs ear but seriously??? I would train my offspring to keep their eyes out for drunk drivers and point them out along the way at every opportunity if you want your kid to have a reasonable chance to make it to adulthood.

 

[gnarlylove]

I am not attacking you. But it is prudent for everyone to be aware of what habits they engage in and what habits are not healthy. By ignoring habits and emphasizing the break down of the body, one becomes less prudent and more stubborn. There certainly are changes that start at 25, and I can attest I am not like I was at 17 or 20. But believing a fatalistic view that you can do nothing to improve your well-being but take pain meds is a definite sign of dependency. Whether you admit it or not I am very keen on the language used to distance oneself from understanding their dependency on pain medication. If you have taken it for more than 3 months straight, I promise you that you are edging towards dependency.

I'm not aiming to criticize you. My aim is to alert you to taking up new ways of living that can improve your well being. Opiates always sedate and remove concern for improving your life since it improves it for you. if I may suggest taking up spiritual awareness and meditation in your golden age. I want to see you be happy without also being fatalistic and destroying your brain as I have for years. Luckily I've been clean for 16 months and have come into the most important aspect of life: the spiritual. I encourage you, whether you take pain meds or not to experiment with say the Tao Teh Ching or meditation or Buddhism or even Christianity. This can improve your outlook 100 fold despite a natural decline that overtakes us all.

 

[whitehall]

Denying people pain meds because they might accidentally overdose or someone else might use them illegally is an abusive use of federal regulations. Who knows what is in the almost 4,000 page Act that Obama signed into law. It's possible that federal agencies were empowered as never before and we might as well get used to Uncle looking over our shoulders as long as Uncle pays the medical bills.

 

[HUGGY]

I am not attacking you. But it is prudent for everyone to be aware of what habits they engage in and what habits are not healthy. By ignoring habits and emphasizing the break down of the body, one becomes less prudent and more stubborn. There certainly are changes that start at 25, and I can attest I am not like I was at 17 or 20. But believing a fatalistic view that you can do nothing to improve your well-being but take pain meds is a definite sign of dependency. Whether you admit it or not I am very keen on the language used to distance oneself from understanding their dependency on pain medication. If you have taken it for more than 3 months straight, I promise you that you are edging towards dependency.

I'm not aiming to criticize you. My aim is to alert you to taking up new ways of living that can improve your well being. Opiates always sedate and remove concern for improving your life since it improves it for you. if I may suggest taking up spiritual awareness and meditation in your golden age. I want to see you be happy without also being fatalistic and destroying your brain as I have for years. Luckily I've been clean for 16 months and have come into the most important aspect of life: the spiritual. I encourage you, whether you take pain meds or not to experiment with say the Tao Teh Ching or meditation or Buddhism or even Christianity. This can improve your outlook 100 fold despite a natural decline that overtakes us all.

I appreciate your concern and just the fact that I put this debate in the Clean Debate Zone by design insures that attacks will be minimal.

I am just getting started on my little campaign as a result of conditions I see in mine and others of my peer group and the astonishing lack of push back on the internets and elsewhere at the war against people with cronic pain advoctaed by the DEA and the medical community under durress and threat.

You have no knowledge of what I have experienced or investigated. Assuming I am without wit or curiosity would be a mistake. My experiences go far beyond most have or could ever have dreamed of I assure you.

My own personal discomfort and dissability lies in the lower spine where two crushed discs and the adjoining spinal deterioration from arthritis are grinding on the sciatic nerves complicated by obstruction in the opening going through the pelvic bone. None of your gods or fairies will help this condition. The initial cause was the very physical life I did lead when more capable including rock climbing and competition mountain river kayaking as well as ocean beach kayaking where the most serious injuries occured. Multiple back flips on the beach from 20 foot breaking waves when I was in my twenties set the eventual outcome I am now living through in motion and there is NOTHING that can be done about it. It has been made clear to me truthfully or not by several doctors that I am not a good candidate for surgery to correct the problems. I have yet to see a surgeon to get a more precise diagnosis as that has to be approved by my provider and has not. I see it as another institutionalized roadblock to any possible recovery. I have attended dozens of physical therapy sessions and found them useless and frankly insulting...painfull...and annoying. Physical therapy does not cure or even help what has gone wrong with my body.

Additionally I would beg to add that this thread IS NOT a HUGGY pity party. There is PLENTY of that happening at "Heathboards" the most widely used medical patient message board. Their in house rule of not being able to use the vast membership(over1,000,000) to organize any patient generated input aimed back at the government or physicians associations is astonishing and utterly incomprehensible. They have a very insulting "hugs" feature for those of you that just want annoymous attention and no actual help. You can and will get banned for offering ANY advice to anyone at this mega site.

 

[gnarlylove]

"None of your gods or fairies will help this condition"

I'm not here to challenge your categorization of religion. It was my mistake for only listing classic texts. There is another side that is equally important: it's not the belief system but the activity of spiritual practice that enlivens one. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfSlyLWqdZg"]Yoga[/ame], Tai Chi, martial arts etc. are vital to one's health and improving condition, including outlook that can truly dissolve aspects of pain. Having never tried it myself, I resisted like most people do. But being honest and actually giving it a shot reveals effects previously thought impossible.

"Imaging finds different forms of meditation may affect brain structure"

So meditation is like a pain med, it changes your brain.

Furthermore, “There is a true biological effect" just like with pain meds.

Indeed, the more we hold onto our ways, our ego, the more pain we perceive to experience. The more we let go of our individuation, the more we become unified with that which cannot be damaged. The more we tap into this limitless essence of the universe, the more we can do previously impossible tasks. Take the example of drying a completely wet towel on your back while naked sitting in 25 degree weather. This sounds absurd. You know what? It is done all the time.Harvard Gazette: Meditation changes temperatures

My conclusion in my few months of honestly pursuing alternative measures to manage pain and mental stress, I have found no better option then what I have mentioned. It's no easy task but anything worth doing isn't. It's awfully easy to pop a pill and can be costly. I am in no way condemning the use of pain meds for managing pain, but don't think the happy pill is the only solution for you in your condition. I know we always want to resist doing things that require effort but it is proven that if you stick to spiritual practice, you will improve mentally, physically and spiritually. Healthy nutritious food is plenty of water can't hurt either. I understand your condition is quite physical but drinking sufficient water each day can possibly alleviate some of the tension in all sincerity. This is the main solution for many people who have back pain but don't nourish their bodies. It's just a matter of how much do you care. Pain meds remove this care for alternatives--I know this all too well as it became my whole existence--but combining them could prove monumental in your life.

Are there problems with drug distribution and policy in the US? HELL YES! And in order to combat that, we must join together and fight it. I am totally with you. But what you can do today can take you one step closer to living a less painful existence. I am well aware of back pain, my dad has been on pain meds since 97 and taking it helps him tremendously but opiates tend to make you passive. Your approach to challenging DEA is a great step and you could benefit by taking this pro-active effort to other areas of your life for even more improvement.

 

[HUGGY]

"None of your gods or fairies will help this condition"

I'm not here to challenge your categorization of religion. It was my mistake for only listing classic texts. There is another side that is equally important: it's not the belief system but the activity of spiritual practice that enlivens one. Yoga, Tai Chi, martial arts etc. are vital to one's health and improving condition, including outlook that can truly dissolve aspects of pain. Having never tried it myself, I resisted like most people do. But being honest and actually giving it a shot reveals effects previously thought impossible.

"Imaging finds different forms of meditation may affect brain structure"

So meditation is like a pain med, it changes your brain.

Furthermore, “There is a true biological effect" just like with pain meds.

Indeed, the more we hold onto our ways, our ego, the more pain we perceive to experience. The more we let go of our individuation, the more we become unified with that which cannot be damaged. The more we tap into this limitless essence of the universe, the more we can do previously impossible tasks. Take the example of drying a completely wet towel on your back while naked sitting in 25 degree weather. This sounds absurd. You know what? It is done all the time.Harvard Gazette: Meditation changes temperatures

My conclusion in my few months of honestly pursuing alternative measures to manage pain and mental stress, I have found no better option then what I have mentioned. It's no easy task but anything worth doing isn't. It's awfully easy to pop a pill and can be costly. I am in no way condemning the use of pain meds for managing pain, but don't think the happy pill is the only solution for you in your condition. I know we always want to resist doing things that require effort but it is proven that if you stick to spiritual practice, you will improve mentally, physically and spiritually. Healthy nutritious food is plenty of water can't hurt either. I understand your condition is quite physical but drinking sufficient water each day can possibly alleviate some of the tension in all sincerity. This is the main solution for many people who have back pain but don't nourish their bodies. It's just a matter of how much do you care. Pain meds remove this care for alternatives--I know this all too well as it became my whole existence--but combining them could prove monumental in your life.

Are there problems with drug distribution and policy in the US? HELL YES! And in order to combat that, we must join together and fight it. I am totally with you. But what you can do today can take you one step closer to living a less painful existence. I am well aware of back pain, my dad has been on pain meds since 97 and taking it helps him tremendously but opiates tend to make you passive. Your approach to challenging DEA is a great step and you could benefit by taking this pro-active effort to other areas of your life for even more improvement.

Fascinating stuff for sure.. With no pain medication I cannot reach to put on socks on my left foot. With 30 mg of morphine sulfate in my system I can just barely reach and put on socks.

Yoga and other similar exercises prescribed in the myriad of physical therapy assisted and un assisted is a futile "excercise" in torture for me. I don't know how many times I must say that my condition IS NOT GOING TO HEAL. Crushed and bulging discs do not miraculously repair themselves. Arthritically degenerated spinal sections do not magically regenerate bone tissue. Openings in the pelvic bone closing with calcium deposit do not etherically open wide for nerve passage.

Please stop attempting to insult my intelligence and make light of mine and others pain. Maybe a harsh criticism but after having gone through the whole gambit and having been a student and private practicioneer of meditation ..student of several martial arts schools including Kung Foo..Tai Chi ..Karate .. by some of the best sensais available since I was 17 I REALLY don't believe your suggestion has been overlooked. I am expert in beathing technique using color visualization to aid in decending to sleep. I could and have taught the subject.

You do not know how much time and discomfort I have invested in the above sort of prescription by some of the so called best physicians working in one of the best university medical staffs in the world.

I cannot function without EXTREME discomfort without the aid of pain killer. I can BARELY function with pain killer but the difference is HUGE in my life as it affects my sense of well being and mood. With grinding pain 24/7 I am not a happy camper. I am very angry all of the time and hate living that way. When I can aquire enough pain medication to "take the edge off" of the hell I normally endure my mood brightens up significantly and just the ability to put on a pair of socks is an uplifting experience.

Describing pain medication as "happy pills" is condecending and frankly highly insulting to the words I am putting out here about mine and others conditions.

Many of my friends are dealing with similar problems involving chronic pain.

As for your prescription..been there done that..please pass the pain medication ...thank you.

 

[HUGGY]

Screw you Bill Clinton...

Prescription painkillers: FDA aims to tighten control of hydrocodone - CNN.com

"(CNN) -- One person dies every 19 minutes from a prescription drug overdose in the United States.

In an effort to combat "misuse and abuse," the Food and Drug Administration is proposing new restrictions that would change regulations for some of the most commonly prescribed narcotic painkillers on the market."

Full story and video featuring that rat f**ker Bill Clinton at link.

 

[gnarlylove]

I am not trying to insult you. I am offering other solutions in addition to morphine sulfate that could work in tandem. It's clear not being able to put socks on without massive pain requires medication. In fact, your pain is so severe that you cannot identify yourself without pain. Experiencing pain is central to your identity. If you didn't experience pain you'd not recognize yourself. I'm suggesting to let go of an iota of this identity. While pain is physical, there is much to be said that pain does not imply suffering. Suffering is an interpretation of the pain signals. I hope you are not suffering and its clear you are quite smart. Of course I nor you can simply stop suffering on a dime, but we can work towards differentiating between the two.

I am not saying disks will magically heal and I am not a believer in miracles like one might see on Benny Hinn. And we both know American forms of treatment focus on the bottom line, money, not genuine health. So I've worked for years as a CNA and in therapy and know the basics in and out. In most cases, therapists either don't do shit to begin with for a person, don't spend enough time listening to the patient, or they don't know truly helpful methods. American education in physical therapy is very Western without much attention to proven techniques outside allopathic treatment, like Yoga, Tai Chi etc.

I admit many or even most forms of yoga would be detrimental to your back without a doubt. But the one I linked, while some movements would not benefit you, I promise you most of them are gentle postures/movements intended to put movement and fluid into the joints and body that would benefit you. And the ones that don't, simply don't do them. Any tension or pain means to stop: do not do. Moreover, Tai Chi is very easy on the body and is the the opposite of strain. You might seek a class in your area after taking your meds. I have tried to offer recommendations the average westerner is not introduced to over the course of years of seeking treatment. But as long as you stick to what you've done, there's no reason to expect improvement. Maybe you didn't come here to hear about ways of improvement. I respect that and want to clarify I'm not telling you to do these things, I'm merely mentioning them as information, if you are inclined. If you don't want to do them I hope you choose so based on what's best for you, not what bad therapists have done. In the end, you are your own therapist. God I can't stop talking!

 

[HUGGY]

I am not trying to insult you. I am offering other solutions in addition to morphine sulfate that could work in tandem. It's clear not being able to put socks on without massive pain requires medication. In fact, your pain is so severe that you cannot identify yourself without pain. Experiencing pain is central to your identity. If you didn't experience pain you'd not recognize yourself. I'm suggesting to let go of an iota of this identity. While pain is physical, there is much to be said that pain does not imply suffering. Suffering is an interpretation of the pain signals. I hope you are not suffering and its clear you are quite smart. Of course I nor you can simply stop suffering on a dime, but we can work towards differentiating between the two.

I am not saying disks will magically heal and I am not a believer in miracles like one might see on Benny Hinn. And we both know American forms of treatment focus on the bottom line, money, not genuine health. So I've worked for years as a CNA and in therapy and know the basics in and out. In most cases, therapists either don't do shit to begin with for a person, don't spend enough time listening to the patient, or they don't know truly helpful methods. American education in physical therapy is very Western without much attention to proven techniques outside allopathic treatment, like Yoga, Tai Chi etc.

I admit many or even most forms of yoga would be detrimental to your back without a doubt. But the one I linked, while some movements would not benefit you, I promise you most of them are gentle postures/movements intended to put movement and fluid into the joints and body that would benefit you. And the ones that don't, simply don't do them. Any tension or pain means to stop: do not do. Moreover, Tai Chi is very easy on the body and is the the opposite of strain. You might seek a class in your area after taking your meds. I have tried to offer recommendations the average westerner is not introduced to over the course of years of seeking treatment. But as long as you stick to what you've done, there's no reason to expect improvement. Maybe you didn't come here to hear about ways of improvement. I respect that and want to clarify I'm not telling you to do these things, I'm merely mentioning them as information, if you are inclined. If you don't want to do them I hope you choose so based on what's best for you, not what bad therapists have done. In the end, you are your own therapist. God I can't stop talking!

"You might seek a class in your area after taking your meds. " I have considered that possibility. Unfortunately my access to legitimate(manufactured) pain medication is sporadic and I am gratefull for the brief moments I have them and just try to get the things done around the crib that I put off untill medicinal help arrives. Not being able to count on any dependable schedule of medication makes putting other people in the loop undooable. The last thing a teacher needs is a cranky student..

Clearly your heart is in a good place.

Anyone looking at a seed for the first time has no idea what it is supposed to be when it matures. Starting a thread on the internet is like planting a seed that takes time to grow into what the original author intends.

I appreciate the effort.

Sean

 

[FA_Q2]

I remember once we were in the hospital for some treatments for my son and we requested some Tylenol because he has some discomfort. The nurse went to go talk to the doc to see if we could get some and returned letting us know that the doc did not want him to take Tylenol because it might mask a fever. They were willing to give him some morphine though in its place.

Naturally I asked how we made the jump from Tylenol to morphine. There should be something a little less extreme. After leaving and coming back she had another solution – oxycodone. At that point we said we would just deal with it. He was uncomfortable, not in severe or even moderate pain and with the amounts of opiates and other very nasty drugs he has already been on there was little reason to pump him with some more without cause.

Unfortunately I don't think there is a non-opiod that is not an NSAID that would mask fever. For example, Fiorecet and Fiorinal work well on moderate pain containing butalbital, caffeine, and either aspirin or acetominaphen. But the last two are NSAIDs.

Maybe someone with a better grasp of pharmacology could help us here, but I can't think of one.

The care of the youth from birth to young adulthood is a field all of its own. I totally sympathize with the responsibility of those that as well as having to keep their own health issues in check must also supervise the handling of their offspring.

This is a thread concerning health issues of those of us that have not fallen in front of buses or taken chances ending our time here leaving us to fend off issues not from bad judgement but from the ravages of having outlived many that did not make all the right descisons along the way.

Stories about babies breath and his or her first asprin are cute as a bugs ear but seriously??? I would train my offspring to keep their eyes out for drunk drivers and point them out along the way at every opportunity if you want your kid to have a reasonable chance to make it to adulthood.

Except my story was not of babies first aspirin nor is it cute. It is fucking tragic. It was about struggles that we have had with leukemia and the related years of treatments that he went through.

Do you really think that the doctor was offering morphine because of a bruise? Think Huggy - being old is not the sole cause of serious pain.

 

[FA_Q2]

I remember once we were in the hospital for some treatments for my son and we requested some Tylenol because he has some discomfort. The nurse went to go talk to the doc to see if we could get some and returned letting us know that the doc did not want him to take Tylenol because it might mask a fever. They were willing to give him some morphine though in its place.

Naturally I asked how we made the jump from Tylenol to morphine. There should be something a little less extreme. After leaving and coming back she had another solution – oxycodone. At that point we said we would just deal with it. He was uncomfortable, not in severe or even moderate pain and with the amounts of opiates and other very nasty drugs he has already been on there was little reason to pump him with some more without cause.

Unfortunately I don't think there is a non-opiod that is not an NSAID that would mask fever. For example, Fiorecet and Fiorinal work well on moderate pain containing butalbital, caffeine, and either aspirin or acetominaphen. But the last two are NSAIDs.

Maybe someone with a better grasp of pharmacology could help us here, but I can't think of one.

I would assume there isn't. His doctors are no pushovers. I really wonder though if the possibility of masking a fever was really worse than possible overexposure to drugs as strong as morphine.

I seriously doubt that it was. It is not like this was going to be continuous either. The doctors were not actively monitoring temperature more often than maybe every 4 hours. That alone tells me that a little Tylenol would have been fine but they jumped to the opiate anyway.

 

[FA_Q2]

Who to blame?

DOCTORS of course.

I hope you are joking.

Why are the doctors to blame for what you personally ingest into your own damn body. The doctors don't force that into you. As a matter of fact, they give you a mountain of paperwork that tells you EXACTLY what the effects can be. Where is the personal responsibility here. You are given all the tools necessary to ensure that your pain management is handled in the manner that you choose (when the doctors are willing to give you that option which seems to be a problem as Huggy points out) and the failure in using that drug is on the person that is abusing it.
Granted, addiction is ugly but the first step in digging out of that hole is to recognize that you created it in the first place. No one else.

 

[Jarlaxle]

There are some situations where there is zero chance Tylenol is going to work. I get your point, but in the middle of an acute gall bladder attack is not a good time to try Tylenol as a replacement for effective analgesics. Due to a records screw up I had the dubious pleasure of twelve hours in a hospital in such a situation. I have also had morphine post-surgery after a triple bypass and from two major abdominal surgeries. In each case I was off morphine by the fourth day. Frankly there are some things in post-surgery rehab that are not going to happen without effective analgesics.

I'm glad things worked out well for you, and I certainly hope you never have an occasion where stronger pain relief is necessary. But those situations exist whether you have experienced one or not.

My wife flatly refuses to use mind-altering painkillers...she has had her knee 'scoped, sliced her forearm almost to the bone (17 stitches), and had two wisdom teeth out. A few years ago, she collected a strained shoulder, badly-sprained ankle, and bruised ribs in a head-on wreck. She cracked three ribs when a truck clipped her in a parking lot about ten years ago. She didn't take anything stronger than what was basically high-test Advil for any of it (and even that was mostly to get the swelling down on her ankle). When she gashed her arm, the only painkiller used was a local (a shot of Morrocaine, I think).

I'm the same way. I have had two near-misses with getting hooked already...I will NOT be that lucky again. I'd rather eat my shotgun.

There is a difference between injury and healing and cronic pain. It is easy for me to know that looking forward from an injury I will heal and the pain will go away.

I have pulled my own teeth out before rather than go to a dentist that will do the same thing. It hurts sharpely for a few seconds then starts to feel better almost immediately.

If you have ever had kidney stones and the worst pain of that experience is somewhere else in your body like say one of your legs..24/7..you can't fall asleep because there is no position that will allow it. THEN if you are too stupid to get some kind of help you WILL swallow your shotgun.

Been there...fractured skull, multiple broken ribs that never healed properly, pinched nerves. I would take eight or twelve Tylenol 3's just to take the edge off and manage 2-3 hours of sleep. A few times, when it was really bad, I washed them down with alcohol.

Unless you have walked in someone elses shoes you have no right to say what they have endured.

Your fear of addiction is YOUR fear. When I had my ciatic nerve pinched in job related accident I thought after a month of the horrible pain that I might consider suicide. Then I went to a couple of emergency rooms at hospitals and got morphine shots directly into the leg. Some relief ..felt nauseous. Directed to a doctor that prescribed oxycondon and codiene..no help.. eventuall I was swallowing handfulls of methadone.. It took away almost all of the pain. Story short ..I laid on my stomack in the bottom of my 35 ft Chris Craft for another two months with ice packs on my spine .. I healed and when the pain was actually gone I kicked the massive dose of narcotics in three weeks. Sure I was addicted but so what. The ablility to sleep and stay still definitly aided in my recovery and healing. So I DO know of forced addiction AND the further work of injury recovery to force one's self off that which saved his life.

I somehow managed to not end up hooked on painkillers or a full-blown lush...I KNOW I will not be that lucky again. I'd rather be dead than live addicted.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Who to blame?

DOCTORS of course.

I hope you are joking.

Why are the doctors to blame for what you personally ingest into your own damn body. The doctors don't force that into you. As a matter of fact, they give you a mountain of paperwork that tells you EXACTLY what the effects can be. Where is the personal responsibility here. You are given all the tools necessary to ensure that your pain management is handled in the manner that you choose (when the doctors are willing to give you that option which seems to be a problem as Huggy points out) and the failure in using that drug is on the person that is abusing it.
Granted, addiction is ugly but the first step in digging out of that hole is to recognize that you created it in the first place. No one else.

He has a point. Many doctors will prescribe Oxy or Percoset when it's not needed.

 

[FA_Q2]

Who to blame?

DOCTORS of course.

I hope you are joking.

Why are the doctors to blame for what you personally ingest into your own damn body. The doctors don't force that into you. As a matter of fact, they give you a mountain of paperwork that tells you EXACTLY what the effects can be. Where is the personal responsibility here. You are given all the tools necessary to ensure that your pain management is handled in the manner that you choose (when the doctors are willing to give you that option which seems to be a problem as Huggy points out) and the failure in using that drug is on the person that is abusing it.
Granted, addiction is ugly but the first step in digging out of that hole is to recognize that you created it in the first place. No one else.

He has a point. Many doctors will prescribe Oxy or Percoset when it's not needed.

No he doesn’t. I already stated that was the case and even gave an example but in the end it is YOUR choice to put that medication in your body. No one else’s. Should doctors be vigilant or liable if they purposefully write a bad script? Yes. Is it their responsibility to ensure that you take your medications responsibly or avoid them when they are unnecessary? No, not at all. You are the ONLY person that can tell if you really need the pain medication. A doctor can talk to you to determine if he thinks it is a possibility but only you are feeling what you are going through. You know if that pain is completely durable or if you need something to help deal with it.

Personal responsibility – it does not end just because you walked through a doctor’s door.