A Debate On Pain Medication Delivery

[HUGGY]

Something that has drawn My attention over the last several years... maybe a decade or more is a personal observation that more and more people are living with crippling pain and less and less is being done about it by the mecical community.

1. It is true that about twenty years ago more or less there were many cases of pain killer overdoses reported. At the time doctors were prescribing pills such as Oxycondon, Percocets and Morphine Sulphate and others somewhat loosely so the availability could be considered a factor in many of the deaths where pain killer was present.

I believe some of those cases were intentional suicides not reported as such.

I believe some of these cases were ruled "accidental" when a person not perscribed took the pills and died. I don't believe that when someone ..even if a teenager takes a handfull of pills stolen from a medicine cabinet or their mom's purse that it is an accident. It is NOT an accident. It is foolish behavior. Foolish behavior can be lethal.

I believe many of the deaths reported as overdose and unneccesary over-prescription was just fools and thieves dying from foolish behavior.

2. Recently the companies producing pain medication and the DEA have been systematically reducing the availability of pain medication to anyone by threatening doctors with their liscence to practice and in the case of the biggest manufacture of pain medication in the U S A getting on some weird conscience kick and attempting to find ways to reduce deaths by holding back manufacture of the pain medicine.

The DEA has a new and recently superfunded division just for the purpose of taking pain killer out of the hands of the public with NO regard for what many Americans go through from chronic pain.

3. Some of our largest universities specializing in medicine have bought into the myth that it is better the public wrack in chronic pain than a single person die from a drug overdose.

4. It is apparent from knowing several people directly and indirectly with life threatening disease such as cancer or AIDS that that group has no problem getting pain relief even if the "end" may be not in the near future. People who are going to die certainly within X months or years are treated with at least some modicom of compassion. If you are not going to die in a predictable fashion you are on your own with no pity or medication to make your pain bearable.

No one seems to be fighting back at the DEA and the preasure they put on the medical community to make it possible for people with genuine chronic pain to seek some relief with medicine.

I am going to start with this much and ask for comment.

 

[CaféAuLait]

Awhile back my wrist was broken, so much so I needed steel plates and pins inserted and several surgeries. I soon developing a nerve disorder called Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy or CRPS. The afflicted area becomes red, swollen and painful to the touch, almost as if you are on fire.

Something as simple as a light breeze or a sheet can cause pain which can take your breath away and knock you to your knees for hours or days on end. Soon after, I developed something rare in RSD called “mirror image spread”. My non-injured hand became affected by RSD as well. My hands and wrists were so swollen you could not see my nails due to extreme swelling. I could not feed myself a naso-gastric tube was ordered and used to sustain me for some time.

I had more surgery, one to implant a pain pump electrodes into my spine and others to alleviate the swelling by surgically cutting into the flingers to release build up swelling which affects the blood flow because of the nerves sending the wrong signal, to put it simply. After that surgery I developed MRSA and was left with large infected open wounds in my back on top of the RSD, the MRSA nearly killed me.

The electrodes were explanted due to the infection and I was left with oral, and patch pain management. After many surgeries and physical therapy I am much better, however anything could set off another episode ( KNOCK ON WOOD) At this point I need nothing more than aspirin or Motrin to control any pain. Damndest thing, I have stretch marks on my wrists and backs of my hands from the swelling which made my hands larger than grapefruit.

The point of telling you this is here I learned about the complications about pain management. I could not drive and someone would have to pick up my scripts. There were several times the pharmacist questioned the reason I would need continual pain management and in fact rolled their eyes at the person picking up my meds. WTF? My doctor was never an issue about prescribing meds, however I met many with RSD who were under treated and or sent to pain management centers where they told me they had to sign ‘contracts’ with their providers and the regime was so strict they had to travel back every few weeks for refills.

Some told me their docs out and out told them they were afraid of prescribing because of investigations or gov orgs questioning them and then sent them to pain management clinics, to assure they would not become under fire. Basically putting the 'risk' with another doctor.

The docs have to show cause for those cases which are long term or out of the ordinary. And it seems to me that because of a few bad apples, doctors are under more and more scrutiny by people that haven’t the slightest clue about many of the diseases out there. I can only hope that if RSD ever becomes an issue again I will have my same doctor or one not afraid to treat me in the correct manner.

As for where you speak of fighting the DEA, some people I spoke to were accused of being pill seekers and that was the only reason they were fighting. I can't imagine the crap they must have gone through and I know if the same had happened to me I would be livid!

 

[HUGGY]

Cafe'AuLait" thank you for your testimony.

I have been thinking about this for a long while...this recent purging of pain killer medication from those that need it most just to barely function. It is the difference from not being able to get to sleep undre any condition or crawling gingerly accross the floor in agonizing pain if one dares leave their bed for such a tortuous venture at all.

I have a close friend that has degenerative nerve damage in both legs that is so crippling I'm certain a less strong human beilng would have commited suicide long ago from the torture she livews with. Fortunately for her the damage was diagnosed as work related and the Workers Comp in Washington, after HUNDREDS of doctors and specialists do have enough clout to insist on serious and intensive pain management medication.

They still attempt to perform costly experiments on my friend including the spinal probes that supposedly give electronic stimulation but which in fact to my knowlwdge of albiet two personally known cases do absolutely NOTHING. They are fake science. Somehow in the doctores running scared of doing what CLEARLY midigates pain these doctors fall victim to charlatans and pass the savings in the several thousands of dollars on to the patients, because the Workers Comp people already know that it is bunk and will not reimberse for the outreageously expensive gimick.

I fear for you chances of getting responsible pain management these days as the rules have changed under the stranglehold and fear mongering by the DEA. They have gained a few feet and now they want the full mile..complete elimination of prescribed pain medication containing opiates or the synthisized opiates.

If I were you I would join myself and others to find an organization that is attempting to build a constituency with enough clout to address these problems to legislaters. The only way the DEA wil back off kicking and screaming from thier diabolical mission is by force from THEIR bosses...our government leaders.

Individually they will lable you criminals ..dope fiends and cry babies. An association of like minded people must rise up against this medical prescrition tyranny before it is too late.

 

[Jarlaxle]

The nerve stimulators DO work for some people. My uncle's father has them due to nerve damage, and they helped a lot. He went from barely able to walk to back ridding his motorcycle. (Surgery is not feasible for him, mostly because he's about 90.)

 

[editec]

I know people addicted to Oxi for pain.

They will never ever get off it unless we find some other way to deal with pain.

Meanwhile OXI is the number 1 abused drug in Maine.

STay away from dem opiates kiddies.

They're too damned good to mess with.

 

[Grandma]

My hospital story:

I had a hysterectomy. Before I woke up I was hooked up to a morphine machine. When I did wake up I ordered it shut off and removed. I demanded ibuprofin instead. Ibuprofin relieves pain. Heroin Light changes the perception of pain. I made the right decision.

Some people are a little too fond of of the hard drugs. Start off with a Tylenol and work your way up, don't start off with Oxy's and think you'll only need them for a little while. You'll become a junkie. Junkies need them all the time.

 

[Disir]

I agree that there was a knee jerk reaction to the ODs. I think that people in chronic pain pay the price. But the FDA passed another pain medication:

Health Care Advocates Protest FDA Approval of 'Killer' Pain Reliever - ABC News

 

[boedicca]

This problem has less to do with the front line of the medical community (doctors) and far more to do with federal government regulatory overreach.

And with the ACA causing severe limitations on formulary drug choices, expect it to get worse

 

[auditor0007]

Something that has drawn My attention over the last several years... maybe a decade or more is a personal observation that more and more people are living with crippling pain and less and less is being done about it by the mecical community.

1. It is true that about twenty years ago more or less there were many cases of pain killer overdoses reported. At the time doctors were prescribing pills such as Oxycondon, Percocets and Morphine Sulphate and others somewhat loosely so the availability could be considered a factor in many of the deaths where pain killer was present.

I believe some of those cases were intentional suicides not reported as such.

I believe some of these cases were ruled "accidental" when a person not perscribed took the pills and died. I don't believe that when someone ..even if a teenager takes a handfull of pills stolen from a medicine cabinet or their mom's purse that it is an accident. It is NOT an accident. It is foolish behavior. Foolish behavior can be lethal.

I believe many of the deaths reported as overdose and unneccesary over-prescription was just fools and thieves dying from foolish behavior.

2. Recently the companies producing pain medication and the DEA have been systematically reducing the availability of pain medication to anyone by threatening doctors with their liscence to practice and in the case of the biggest manufacture of pain medication in the U S A getting on some weird conscience kick and attempting to find ways to reduce deaths by holding back manufacture of the pain medicine.

The DEA has a new and recently superfunded division just for the purpose of taking pain killer out of the hands of the public with NO regard for what many Americans go through from chronic pain.

3. Some of our largest universities specializing in medicine have bought into the myth that it is better the public wrack in chronic pain than a single person die from a drug overdose.

4. It is apparent from knowing several people directly and indirectly with life threatening disease such as cancer or AIDS that that group has no problem getting pain relief even if the "end" may be not in the near future. People who are going to die certainly within X months or years are treated with at least some modicom of compassion. If you are not going to die in a predictable fashion you are on your own with no pity or medication to make your pain bearable.

No one seems to be fighting back at the DEA and the preasure they put on the medical community to make it possible for people with genuine chronic pain to seek some relief with medicine.

I am going to start with this much and ask for comment.

My mother has chronic pain from many things. She suffered a broken hip over ten years ago and she gets shingles at least four times per year. She also has survived a heart attack and lung cancer, but her pain is constant. She is on Vicodin, but the doctors have been trying to get her off of it. She's 82 and just wants to live her life with the least amount of pain possible. Now she is worried that they are trying to take her pain meds away, and Vicodin seems to be the only thing that really works. She has tried other pain meds and none of them is as effective as Vicodin.

Yes, we need to be aware of potential abuse, but some people really do need these pain meds.

 

[HUGGY]

I know people addicted to Oxi for pain.

They will never ever get off it unless we find some other way to deal with pain.

Meanwhile OXI is the number 1 abused drug in Maine.

STay away from dem opiates kiddies.

They're too damned good to mess with.

There are responsible ways a physician can prescribe and monitor pain medication. A simple urine test can check levels of opiates in the system and suspected abusers can be required a blood test and if even further more long term abuse is suspected hair follical testing shows the pattern of absorbtion for 90 days.

Not all pain is the same. There is no one formula that lables someone a "junkie". I know cancer patients that take enough morphine sulfate each day that would kill an average person yet they do not stumble around acting intoxicated.

Because "some" abuse certain medications it should not be an excuse for a tortured existance for those that follow their doctors orders and submit to intensive testing for their own health and the safety of the doctor.

Making a joke calling this about "kiddies" just having a good time does a disservice to this serious topic.

 

[oldfart]

My hospital story:

I had a hysterectomy. Before I woke up I was hooked up to a morphine machine. When I did wake up I ordered it shut off and removed. I demanded ibuprofin instead. Ibuprofin relieves pain. Heroin Light changes the perception of pain. I made the right decision.

Some people are a little too fond of of the hard drugs. Start off with a Tylenol and work your way up, don't start off with Oxy's and think you'll only need them for a little while. You'll become a junkie. Junkies need them all the time.

There are some situations where there is zero chance Tylenol is going to work. I get your point, but in the middle of an acute gall bladder attack is not a good time to try Tylenol as a replacement for effective analgesics. Due to a records screw up I had the dubious pleasure of twelve hours in a hospital in such a situation. I have also had morphine post-surgery after a triple bypass and from two major abdominal surgeries. In each case I was off morphine by the fourth day. Frankly there are some things in post-surgery rehab that are not going to happen without effective analgesics.

I'm glad things worked out well for you, and I certainly hope you never have an occasion where stronger pain relief is necessary. But those situations exist whether you have experienced one or not.

 

[HUGGY]

My hospital story:

I had a hysterectomy. Before I woke up I was hooked up to a morphine machine. When I did wake up I ordered it shut off and removed. I demanded ibuprofin instead. Ibuprofin relieves pain. Heroin Light changes the perception of pain. I made the right decision.

Some people are a little too fond of of the hard drugs. Start off with a Tylenol and work your way up, don't start off with Oxy's and think you'll only need them for a little while. You'll become a junkie. Junkies need them all the time.

There are some situations where there is zero chance Tylenol is going to work. I get your point, but in the middle of an acute gall bladder attack is not a good time to try Tylenol as a replacement for effective analgesics. Due to a records screw up I had the dubious pleasure of twelve hours in a hospital in such a situation. I have also had morphine post-surgery after a triple bypass and from two major abdominal surgeries. In each case I was off morphine by the fourth day. Frankly there are some things in post-surgery rehab that are not going to happen without effective analgesics.

I'm glad things worked out well for you, and I certainly hope you never have an occasion where stronger pain relief is necessary. But those situations exist whether you have experienced one or not.

People with no malice scoff at others pain all the time.

I am enroled in one of the most active patient pity parties of all time called "Healthboards". The cronic pain forum has most of my interest. You can only find it by searching "pain". There are THOUSANDS of testimonies carefully locked away surviving under strict board rules that you may not post ANY advocasy in any form including suggesting that these people contact their elected reprsentative and give testimony what the government programs are doing to insure these people live in horrible crippling pain.

Astonishing. I am getting the distinct impression that the administrators of this site believe this pain people are suffering is "gods will" and won't let anyone suggest that there be some other outcome would they only stand up and request it.

One of the more repetitive stories is how people hear from someone(female) close to them that is having monthly cramps that they "Know just how you feel".

I am familiar with the doctors scale of pain 1-10 that is in fashion now-a-days.

I have suffered kidney stones and would rank it a strong 9. We are talking pain so violent that projectile vomiting from the pain is normal.

Apparently many people that have never suffered serious CP would list their "cramps" a 9 when in reality "cramps" for a few hours would be a 2 on my scale. They just do not know. It is high time they do.

 

[Jarlaxle]

My hospital story:

I had a hysterectomy. Before I woke up I was hooked up to a morphine machine. When I did wake up I ordered it shut off and removed. I demanded ibuprofin instead. Ibuprofin relieves pain. Heroin Light changes the perception of pain. I made the right decision.

Some people are a little too fond of of the hard drugs. Start off with a Tylenol and work your way up, don't start off with Oxy's and think you'll only need them for a little while. You'll become a junkie. Junkies need them all the time.

There are some situations where there is zero chance Tylenol is going to work. I get your point, but in the middle of an acute gall bladder attack is not a good time to try Tylenol as a replacement for effective analgesics. Due to a records screw up I had the dubious pleasure of twelve hours in a hospital in such a situation. I have also had morphine post-surgery after a triple bypass and from two major abdominal surgeries. In each case I was off morphine by the fourth day. Frankly there are some things in post-surgery rehab that are not going to happen without effective analgesics.

I'm glad things worked out well for you, and I certainly hope you never have an occasion where stronger pain relief is necessary. But those situations exist whether you have experienced one or not.

My wife flatly refuses to use mind-altering painkillers...she has had her knee 'scoped, sliced her forearm almost to the bone (17 stitches), and had two wisdom teeth out. A few years ago, she collected a strained shoulder, badly-sprained ankle, and bruised ribs in a head-on wreck. She cracked three ribs when a truck clipped her in a parking lot about ten years ago. She didn't take anything stronger than what was basically high-test Advil for any of it (and even that was mostly to get the swelling down on her ankle). When she gashed her arm, the only painkiller used was a local (a shot of Morrocaine, I think).

I'm the same way. I have had two near-misses with getting hooked already...I will NOT be that lucky again. I'd rather eat my shotgun.

 

[RosieS]

My RA has gotten to the Lupus level. I also had MRSA and pseudomonas in my legs. I was left with permanent nerve damage after the holes filled in.

The trick to not be coming hooked on pain pills is to stay below the maximum dose. Do not expect to be pain free, just expect for the edge to be taken off.

I have been on the same doses of my pain and nerve pills for more than 11,years. No change of dosage. I always have extra pills each month for fear of screw ups - and there have been- that leave me without an Rx for a month.

Florida will be voting on medical marijuana. If It passes, I can drop the Lortab and use marijuana in its place.

The introduction of Zohydro will make drug abusers, rather than users, OD rather rapidly. Perhaps that is what Big Pharma wants?

The abuse of prescription pills starts when people start thinking that more than a small dosage would be ok. Others have less pain and sell their excess pills for profit - creating pill addicts. That is how Limbaugh got his pills on the street.

Stop the illegal dealing in pain pills- but you don't have to kill them with Zohydro to do that.

Regards from Rosie

 

[HUGGY]

My hospital story:

I had a hysterectomy. Before I woke up I was hooked up to a morphine machine. When I did wake up I ordered it shut off and removed. I demanded ibuprofin instead. Ibuprofin relieves pain. Heroin Light changes the perception of pain. I made the right decision.

Some people are a little too fond of of the hard drugs. Start off with a Tylenol and work your way up, don't start off with Oxy's and think you'll only need them for a little while. You'll become a junkie. Junkies need them all the time.

There are some situations where there is zero chance Tylenol is going to work. I get your point, but in the middle of an acute gall bladder attack is not a good time to try Tylenol as a replacement for effective analgesics. Due to a records screw up I had the dubious pleasure of twelve hours in a hospital in such a situation. I have also had morphine post-surgery after a triple bypass and from two major abdominal surgeries. In each case I was off morphine by the fourth day. Frankly there are some things in post-surgery rehab that are not going to happen without effective analgesics.

I'm glad things worked out well for you, and I certainly hope you never have an occasion where stronger pain relief is necessary. But those situations exist whether you have experienced one or not.

My wife flatly refuses to use mind-altering painkillers...she has had her knee 'scoped, sliced her forearm almost to the bone (17 stitches), and had two wisdom teeth out. A few years ago, she collected a strained shoulder, badly-sprained ankle, and bruised ribs in a head-on wreck. She cracked three ribs when a truck clipped her in a parking lot about ten years ago. She didn't take anything stronger than what was basically high-test Advil for any of it (and even that was mostly to get the swelling down on her ankle). When she gashed her arm, the only painkiller used was a local (a shot of Morrocaine, I think).

I'm the same way. I have had two near-misses with getting hooked already...I will NOT be that lucky again. I'd rather eat my shotgun.

There is a difference between injury and healing and cronic pain. It is easy for me to know that looking forward from an injury I will heal and the pain will go away.

I have pulled my own teeth out before rather than go to a dentist that will do the same thing. It hurts sharpely for a few seconds then starts to feel better almost immediately.

If you have ever had kidney stones and the worst pain of that experience is somewhere else in your body like say one of your legs..24/7..you can't fall asleep because there is no position that will allow it. THEN if you are too stupid to get some kind of help you WILL swallow your shotgun.

Unless you have walked in someone elses shoes you have no right to say what they have endured.

Your fear of addiction is YOUR fear. When I had my ciatic nerve pinched in job related accident I thought after a month of the horrible pain that I might consider suicide. Then I went to a couple of emergency rooms at hospitals and got morphine shots directly into the leg. Some relief ..felt nauseous. Directed to a doctor that prescribed oxycondon and codiene..no help.. eventuall I was swallowing handfulls of methadone.. It took away almost all of the pain. Story short ..I laid on my stomack in the bottom of my 35 ft Chris Craft for another two months with ice packs on my spine .. I healed and when the pain was actually gone I kicked the massive dose of narcotics in three weeks. Sure I was addicted but so what. The ablility to sleep and stay still definitly aided in my recovery and healing. So I DO know of forced addiction AND the further work of injury recovery to force one's self off that which saved his life.

 

[HUGGY]

The purpose of this thread is to stimulate conversation on how the pain killing drug delivery system is or has worked for you and me and how we can expect it to work for us in the future.

It is about taking pain medication away from people that cannot live with the torture of their aliments.

It has become an easy target for sociopathes in congress willng to step on or over any easy target to get powerfull.

It is astounding how little organized push back by those it affects directly exists. I cannot understand why these people are not crying out. Suffering quitly or committing suicide when there is hope and pain relief out there is nonsense and shocking frankly.

This thread IS NOT a pissing contest looking for stories about people that have endured some pain and recovered thanking the lord they NEVER took the evil pain killers.

Only sociopathes have no empathy for others. If you are a sociopathe by that definition please take your comment elsewhere.

All others having interest in making the delivery system of pain relief for those with cronic pain please offer your testimony.

Thank You

Sean Corey

 

[gnarlylove]

Excellent discussion from my youthful vantage point (as a 26 yr old semi-professional philosopher and ex-homeless heroin addict). Opiates are way powerful and seductive threatening whole nations. It doesn't take much to look back on the Opium Wars and see what opiates can do to a people.

I grew up and currently live in hillbilly heroin alley, in Appalachia. It has devastated our community and continues to more and more. It exceeds our tiny capacity as a poor community to address these issues. I am part of a suboxone clinic that has aided in my transformation back into the stable life but it is costly--too costly. Having known all the stories and angles from the nurse who is known as the best worker stealing pills of patients who refuse them to the permanently homeless crack and heroin addicts among whom I have lived extensively.

This is indeed a national issue having traveled all over and acquired opiates in any city I visited within hours. Most narrow minded folks blame people for their "drug problems" but this approach is invalid (as usual). The addicted population must simply be understood before anything effective can be implemented. Stereotypes and ignorance abounds. We are a long way from achieving that and the longer we don't, the more addiction takes neighbors and friends by the hundreds and perhaps thousands each day in the USA. Addicts are people too with emotions and needs.

I can attest to addicts, even in prescription cases, become dependent faster than they could realize and the main barrier to getting help early on is shame. Shame prevents one from reaching out, and I ended up hiding my homelessness from my parents till they had to rescue me, otherwise I was going to die.

After shame, denial sets in because we all think of ourselves as "better than that," incapable of being addicted (as I know I did). Only when full blown addiction sets in does one even entertain the idea of reaching out. This must stop. We must welcome addicts with open arms, the earlier the dependency is caught, the better chance of a full recovery.

I can also attest that factually people become addicted as a result of seeking escape from our dire world, abject to those in poverty. To a select group, say 25% of the population, life is easily manageable and all services exist without judgment. But to say, the bottom 40%, when prescribed opiates that not only relieve physical pain but also mental anguish and relief, it's a no brainer to continue seeking this amazing pill (incidentally, heroin got its name by providing one with energy to perform "heroic" feats like long work hours like the American populace does--it's increased by some 3100 additional hours since the 1980s). This drive to continue taking a pill that makes you holistically better is entirely understandable but most are unaware of the power of addiction since it is so outrageously taboo.

People are addicted to all sorts of things in modern society but many are acceptable addictions. Take shopping or the pursuit/love of money, these are widely held societal values despite their destructive nature and constant demands placed on the individual (by their own doing but it quickly takes one over as I experienced). We need to understand addiction is a much broader problem and begin to treat those with drug depedency in a humanitarian fashion. But the trends appear to be getting worse before it will get better.

My main advocacy is to educate yourself on addiction like what addiction does to a person. Just as gay people have become less marginalized, so must the addict by perhaps becoming acquainted with them, understanding their situation, treating a person as a person and not some low-life. In almost all cases prior to addiction, the person was generally regarded as good and was not known as a thief. Addiction rewires the brain, it is no easy task to combat something internal. Offer support, not criticism.

 

[oldfart]

There are some situations where there is zero chance Tylenol is going to work. I get your point, but in the middle of an acute gall bladder attack is not a good time to try Tylenol as a replacement for effective analgesics. Due to a records screw up I had the dubious pleasure of twelve hours in a hospital in such a situation. I have also had morphine post-surgery after a triple bypass and from two major abdominal surgeries. In each case I was off morphine by the fourth day. Frankly there are some things in post-surgery rehab that are not going to happen without effective analgesics.

I'm glad things worked out well for you, and I certainly hope you never have an occasion where stronger pain relief is necessary. But those situations exist whether you have experienced one or not.

People with no malice scoff at others pain all the time.....I am familiar with the doctors scale of pain 1-10 that is in fashion now-a-days.

I have suffered kidney stones and would rank it a strong 9. We are talking pain so violent that projectile vomiting from the pain is normal.

Apparently many people that have never suffered serious CP would list their "cramps" a 9 when in reality "cramps" for a few hours would be a 2 on my scale. They just do not know. It is high time they do.

Ouch! I understand the kidney stone problem and it's about an 8.5--9.0+ on anybody's scale. In 1966 I had surgery to repair a blocked ureter resulting from a pedestrian--truck accident (I was the pedestrian) fourteenth months previously. The pain was exactly what you would get from a kidney stone stuck in a ureter, except that it went on for nine months, destroyed 96% of the interior of the kidney from the fluid buildup, and caused me to drop from 145 pounds to 94 pounds (I'm 5'10"). Back in the day there was no such thing as morphine pumps. A nurse came in every four hours or so and you got stuck in the butt. After three days you got to go cold turkey. I have a 26" incision scar as a souvenir. That was surgery in the Marcus Welby era.

And yes, projectile vomiting is a good indication that the pain control is not working. So are second degree burns from heating pads you don't even notice. Add blurred vision and involuntary repetitive motion to the stew. Some people actually die from the pain and not the underlying condition. Blood pressure rises to the point the patient can stroke out. We don't keep statistics on how many people die from chronic and severe pain, or from suicide prompted by it; but my guess is that that number is several times the number of truly accidental overdoses.

 

[HUGGY]

Excellent discussion from my youthful vantage point (as a 26 yr old semi-professional philosopher and ex-homeless heroin addict). Opiates are way powerful and seductive threatening whole nations. It doesn't take much to look back on the Opium Wars and see what opiates can do to a people.

I grew up and currently live in hillbilly heroin alley, in Appalachia. It has devastated our community and continues to more and more. It exceeds our tiny capacity as a poor community to address these issues. I am part of a suboxone clinic that has aided in my transformation back into the stable life but it is costly--too costly. Having known all the stories and angles from the nurse who is known as the best worker stealing pills of patients who refuse them to the permanently homeless crack and heroin addicts among whom I have lived extensively.

This is indeed a national issue having traveled all over and acquired opiates in any city I visited within hours. Most narrow minded folks blame people for their "drug problems" but this approach is invalid (as usual). The addicted population must simply be understood before anything effective can be implemented. Stereotypes and ignorance abounds. We are a long way from achieving that and the longer we don't, the more addiction takes neighbors and friends by the hundreds and perhaps thousands each day in the USA. Addicts are people too with emotions and needs.

I can attest to addicts, even in prescription cases, become dependent faster than they could realize and the main barrier to getting help early on is shame. Shame prevents one from reaching out, and I ended up hiding my homelessness from my parents till they had to rescue me, otherwise I was going to die.

After shame, denial sets in because we all think of ourselves as "better than that," incapable of being addicted (as I know I did). Only when full blown addiction sets in does one even entertain the idea of reaching out. This must stop. We must welcome addicts with open arms, the earlier the dependency is caught, the better chance of a full recovery.

I can also attest that factually people become addicted as a result of seeking escape from our dire world, abject to those in poverty. To a select group, say 25% of the population, life is easily manageable and all services exist without judgment. But to say, the bottom 40%, when prescribed opiates that not only relieve physical pain but also mental anguish and relief, it's a no brainer to continue seeking this amazing pill (incidentally, heroin got its name by providing one with energy to perform "heroic" feats like long work hours like the American populace does--it's increased by some 3100 additional hours since the 1980s). This drive to continue taking a pill that makes you holistically better is entirely understandable but most are unaware of the power of addiction since it is so outrageously taboo.

People are addicted to all sorts of things in modern society but many are acceptable addictions. Take shopping or the pursuit/love of money, these are widely held societal values despite their destructive nature and constant demands placed on the individual (by their own doing but it quickly takes one over as I experienced). We need to understand addiction is a much broader problem and begin to treat those with drug depedency in a humanitarian fashion. But the trends appear to be getting worse before it will get better.

My main advocacy is to educate yourself on addiction like what addiction does to a person. Just as gay people have become less marginalized, so must the addict by perhaps becoming acquainted with them, understanding their situation, treating a person as a person and not some low-life. In almost all cases prior to addiction, the person was generally regarded as good and was not known as a thief. Addiction rewires the brain, it is no easy task to combat something internal. Offer support, not criticism.

Again we have snared a good hearted soul that has missed the point entirely. There must be no recovering addicts thread available.

OK..We have big shoulders but there is a distinct point this thread is about and THAT is concerning patients with CP under close supervision taking U/As frequently and hair follical testing for over or UNDER use of the prescribed pain medication.

The theiving nurse was a nice touch but that is hardly germain to this discussion.

YOUR inability to stay off the street is not really part of this discussion either. Some people are too out of control to be helped. I am sorry for that situation but frankly my plate is full with another issue.

Again ..this discussion has nothing to do with the "Hillbilly heroin" situation in the Appalatians. I nor any of the friends I advocate for are addicted to anything except cigarettes. We probably drink more coffee than we need to. No one I hang out with drinks very much at all. OK there is one friend that drinks too much but he isn't part of this discussion.

I'm talking about responsible people that pay thier bills..have a place to live.. have horrible cronic pain ..and the medical system has let them down due to a new Government policy and their fear of having their medical liscences taken away by the DEA.

I am trying to keep this thread focused on people that keep their doctors appointments and jump through all the requested hoops and still are denied pain medication strictly because of THIS NEW GOVERNMENT DRUG RESTRICTION POLICY...

..not diagnosis. AND in some cases falsifying diagnosis to cover up the fear of being caught denying the proper medication.

 

[HUGGY]

There are some situations where there is zero chance Tylenol is going to work. I get your point, but in the middle of an acute gall bladder attack is not a good time to try Tylenol as a replacement for effective analgesics. Due to a records screw up I had the dubious pleasure of twelve hours in a hospital in such a situation. I have also had morphine post-surgery after a triple bypass and from two major abdominal surgeries. In each case I was off morphine by the fourth day. Frankly there are some things in post-surgery rehab that are not going to happen without effective analgesics.

I'm glad things worked out well for you, and I certainly hope you never have an occasion where stronger pain relief is necessary. But those situations exist whether you have experienced one or not.

People with no malice scoff at others pain all the time.....I am familiar with the doctors scale of pain 1-10 that is in fashion now-a-days.

I have suffered kidney stones and would rank it a strong 9. We are talking pain so violent that projectile vomiting from the pain is normal.

Apparently many people that have never suffered serious CP would list their "cramps" a 9 when in reality "cramps" for a few hours would be a 2 on my scale. They just do not know. It is high time they do.

Ouch! I understand the kidney stone problem and it's about an 8.5--9.0+ on anybody's scale. In 1966 I had surgery to repair a blocked ureter resulting from a pedestrian--truck accident (I was the pedestrian) fourteenth months previously. The pain was exactly what you would get from a kidney stone stuck in a ureter, except that it went on for nine months, destroyed 96% of the interior of the kidney from the fluid buildup, and caused me to drop from 145 pounds to 94 pounds (I'm 5'10"). Back in the day there was no such thing as morphine pumps. A nurse came in every four hours or so and you got stuck in the butt. After three days you got to go cold turkey. I have a 26" incision scar as a souvenir. That was surgery in the Marcus Welby era.

And yes, projectile vomiting is a good indication that the pain control is not working. So are second degree burns from heating pads you don't even notice. Add blurred vision and involuntary repetitive motion to the stew. Some people actually die from the pain and not the underlying condition. Blood pressure rises to the point the patient can stroke out. We don't keep statistics on how many people die from chronic and severe pain, or from suicide prompted by it; but my guess is that that number is several times the number of truly accidental overdoses.

WOW! You have certainly had a tortured relationship with the medical issues. The passage I boldined is more in line with the discussion I was hoping to generate.

The drug policy as it stands and where it is threatened to go has purposefully diminished the value of pain as a controllable entity and a responsibility for the medical community to address.

Throwing the corpses of foolish out of control people at the feet of responsible IN CONTROL people as a reason to deny them medical help is goulish and cynical.