A chance to step up

[Trakar]

Climate forum offers a chance for Qatar
Gulf Times ? Qatar?s top-selling English daily newspaper - Opinion

Qatar is offered an opportunity when it hosts the UN forum on climate change in December, say veteran watchers of the process.
Qatar’s population of less than 2mn pumps out some 53.5 tonnes per person of heat-trapping carbon dioxide into the atmosphere per year, according to UN statistics.
This is 20 tonnes more than the closest runner-up (the United Arab Emirates), three times more than the US, 10 times more than China - and a massive 36 times more than the average Indian.
But five months ago, in a surprise move, Qatar was chosen to host the next meeting of ministers under the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC).
Qatar faces political and logistical hurdles in this latest bid to boost its profile, according to some delegates attending intermediate climate talks this week in Bonn.
But the delegates also saw a chance for Qatar to hammer home the problems of climate change in a region where the issue is dormant or dismissed.
“We see it as an opportunity, because now Qatar and the whole region need to show leadership, to give a signal to the international community that they are serious about climate change,” Wael Hmaidan, director of activist group Climate Action Network, told AFP. (rest at link above)

 

[flacaltenn]

What does this mean? Are these wasteful evil earth-damagers? Or is this something else?

The high per capita number is cow-pie... It's because most of those emissions are made to provide exported energy to YOU and Europe and the rest of the gloating world. Those emissions should be charged to the CUSTOMERS of Qatar energy.

That and the fact that WE probably consume a large fraction of Qatar energy supporting our bases and airfields there for the war effort. Doesn't take but a couple busloads of people to fill up Qatar for the weekend..

 

[Trakar]

What does this mean? Are these wasteful evil earth-damagers? Or is this something else?

The high per capita number is cow-pie... It's because most of those emissions are made to provide exported energy to YOU and Europe and the rest of the gloating world. Those emissions should be charged to the CUSTOMERS of Qatar energy.

That and the fact that WE probably consume a large fraction of Qatar energy supporting our bases and airfields there for the war effort. Doesn't take but a couple busloads of people to fill up Qatar for the weekend..

I'm not sure where you get any of these impressions, they certainly aren't in the portion of the article that I posted, nor do the seem to represent a reasonable interpretation of the information in the entire article from which that portion of the article was extracted. If there are specific issues that you feel the article misportrays or misrepresents, I will be happy to discuss those issues with you.

 

[skookerasbil]

maybe 8 people care

 

[flacaltenn]

What does this mean? Are these wasteful evil earth-damagers? Or is this something else?

The high per capita number is cow-pie... It's because most of those emissions are made to provide exported energy to YOU and Europe and the rest of the gloating world. Those emissions should be charged to the CUSTOMERS of Qatar energy.

That and the fact that WE probably consume a large fraction of Qatar energy supporting our bases and airfields there for the war effort. Doesn't take but a couple busloads of people to fill up Qatar for the weekend..

I'm not sure where you get any of these impressions, they certainly aren't in the portion of the article that I posted, nor do the seem to represent a reasonable interpretation of the information in the entire article from which that portion of the article was extracted. If there are specific issues that you feel the article misportrays or misrepresents, I will be happy to discuss those issues with you.

My how your reading comprehension sucks.. You post an article where the WHOLE PREMISE is that Qatar is energy squandering country and is being given this wonderful chance to redeem itself by hosting a green circle-jerk. I tell you that the primary premise is OBVIOUSLY faulty because the numbers given are meaningless. And you accuse ME of misrepresenting the article..

Oh -- those are rules? EXCUZZZZE me.......
I think YOU should understand the article before deciding that it's actually valuable insight.

Qatar has NOTHING to be ashamed of as a net MAJOR SUPPLIER of energy...

 

[konradv]

maybe 8 people care

As long as it's the right 8.

 

[Old Rocks]

What does this mean? Are these wasteful evil earth-damagers? Or is this something else?

The high per capita number is cow-pie... It's because most of those emissions are made to provide exported energy to YOU and Europe and the rest of the gloating world. Those emissions should be charged to the CUSTOMERS of Qatar energy.

That and the fact that WE probably consume a large fraction of Qatar energy supporting our bases and airfields there for the war effort. Doesn't take but a couple busloads of people to fill up Qatar for the weekend..

I'm not sure where you get any of these impressions, they certainly aren't in the portion of the article that I posted, nor do the seem to represent a reasonable interpretation of the information in the entire article from which that portion of the article was extracted. If there are specific issues that you feel the article misportrays or misrepresents, I will be happy to discuss those issues with you.

My how your reading comprehension sucks.. You post an article where the WHOLE PREMISE is that Qatar is energy squandering country and is being given this wonderful chance to redeem itself by hosting a green circle-jerk. I tell you that the primary premise is OBVIOUSLY faulty because the numbers given are meaningless. And you accuse ME of misrepresenting the article..

Oh -- those are rules? EXCUZZZZE me.......
I think YOU should understand the article before deciding that it's actually valuable insight.

Qatar has NOTHING to be ashamed of as a net MAJOR SUPPLIER of energy...

Really pretty dumb. Qatar's oil is a finite resource. The sun and wind there are not finite. Qatar and the other oil states need to look to the future, and that is what Qatar is doing.

 

[skookerasbil]

Peak oil is a fraud concept


http://www.forbes.com/sites/boblutz/2012/02/06/fulsome-fossil-fuels-and-the-peak-oil-myth/



Realville FTW

 

[konradv]

Peak oil is a fraud concept

Fulsome Fossil Fuels And The 'Peak Oil' Myth - Forbes

Realville FTW

Your opinion is irrelevant. You're not one of THE EIGHT.

 

[Trakar]

Oh -- those are rules? EXCUZZZZE me.......
I think YOU should understand the article before deciding that it's actually valuable insight.

Qatar has NOTHING to be ashamed of as a net MAJOR SUPPLIER of energy...

The message you assert is not in the words of the article. I try to stick with information actually conveyed rather than trying to divine meaning according some ill-defined sense of what people "are really trying to say."

I see no reference stating that Qatar should be ashamed of anything much less it's energy production. BTW, as far as I know Qatar's actual energy production is quite small, though they do produce a significant amount of oil that is bought by others. So while the nation is a large producer of fuel feedstock (oil) it technically isn't a major energy producer.

 

[Trakar]

maybe 8 people care

It looks like that is a gross underestimate:

The Yale/George Mason study – Public Support for Climate & Energy Policies in May 2011

71% of respondents say global warming should be a priority for the US government

67% say the U.S. should undertake the effort to reduce global warming, even if it has moderate to large economic costs.

68% support requiring electric utilities to produce at least 20% of their electricity from renewable energy sources, even if it costs the average household an extra $100 a year.

According to a March 30th 2012 Gallup Poll

77% of American respondents stated that they personally worry about global warming issues

According to the Kean University/NJ Speaks poll released yesterday:

71% of respondents claimed that the effects of climate change and global warming were a concern

69% human activity has contributed to global warming

66% said government should take a larger role when it comes to protecting the environment


Looks like quite a bit more than "8"

 

[Trakar]

I'm not sure where you get any of these impressions, they certainly aren't in the portion of the article that I posted, nor do the seem to represent a reasonable interpretation of the information in the entire article from which that portion of the article was extracted. If there are specific issues that you feel the article misportrays or misrepresents, I will be happy to discuss those issues with you.

My how your reading comprehension sucks.. You post an article where the WHOLE PREMISE is that Qatar is energy squandering country and is being given this wonderful chance to redeem itself by hosting a green circle-jerk. I tell you that the primary premise is OBVIOUSLY faulty because the numbers given are meaningless. And you accuse ME of misrepresenting the article..

Oh -- those are rules? EXCUZZZZE me.......
I think YOU should understand the article before deciding that it's actually valuable insight.

Qatar has NOTHING to be ashamed of as a net MAJOR SUPPLIER of energy...

Really pretty dumb. Qatar's oil is a finite resource. The sun and wind there are not finite. Qatar and the other oil states need to look to the future, and that is what Qatar is doing.

Actually, most of the middle eastern oil countries are leading the way in establishing, and/or investing in, alternate energy technologies, both at home and around the globe. They aren't idiots.

United Arab Emirates Promotes Alternative Energy - http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/26/world/middleeast/26iht-m26-masdar-invest.html

Qatar Alternate Energy Investors Summit - Qatar Alternative Energy Investors Summit - QAEIS

Salalah Free Zone to Become Regional hub for Alternative Energy - Salalah Free Zone to Become Regional hub for Alternative Energy

EcOrient: Towards a Greener Middle East - The Exhibition for the Environment, Renewable and Clean Energy

Middle East becomes a solar energy hotbed - Middle East becomes a solar energy hotbed - The National

many, many more available for the curious.

 

[RollingThunder]

maybe 8 people care

Here, kookster, let me fix that for you. You left something out.

The kookster says: "I asked everybody in my insane asylum and maybe 8 people care."

 

[flacaltenn]

Oh -- those are rules? EXCUZZZZE me.......
I think YOU should understand the article before deciding that it's actually valuable insight.

Qatar has NOTHING to be ashamed of as a net MAJOR SUPPLIER of energy...

The message you assert is not in the words of the article. I try to stick with information actually conveyed rather than trying to divine meaning according some ill-defined sense of what people "are really trying to say."

I see no reference stating that Qatar should be ashamed of anything much less it's energy production. BTW, as far as I know Qatar's actual energy production is quite small, though they do produce a significant amount of oil that is bought by others. So while the nation is a large producer of fuel feedstock (oil) it technically isn't a major energy producer.

So you screen and read these articles without so much as an OUNCE of self-generated critical thinking???? Letme splain this to you....

I see no reference stating that Qatar should be ashamed of anything much less it's energy production.

Howz about ---

Qatar is offered an opportunity when it hosts the UN forum on climate change in December, say veteran watchers of the process.
Qatar’s population of less than 2mn pumps out some 53.5 tonnes per person of heat-trapping carbon dioxide into the atmosphere per year, according to UN statistics.
This is 20 tonnes more than the closest runner-up (the United Arab Emirates), three times more than the US, 10 times more than China - and a massive 36 times more than the average Indian.

Isn't the entire (FALSE) premise of that intro that the average citizen of Qatar is responsible for 38 TIMES the co2 emission of an Indian. And here's the critical thinking that SHOULD have been applied. This attempt to shift guilt to the individuals of Qatar is totally misfounded since the emissions should be charged to the CUSTOMERS of the energy surplus that Qatar produces and the US interests in that region that consume massive amounts of that energy.

A one minute cross-check on Google will validate my interpretation.. If the citizens of Qatar derived ALL their domestic power from solar/wind (impossible) they STILL would have a HUGE per capita number on CO2.

So what is the "redemption" that the UN meeting offers? To get Qatar to give up it's highest source of income (fossil energy export) and assume the position of a debtor nation so that it's citizen's conscience's will be clear...

That's the desired outcome? Good luck with that.... Some critical thinking folks might consider that ---- ECONOMIC IMPERIALISM...

 

[RollingThunder]

Oh -- those are rules? EXCUZZZZE me.......
I think YOU should understand the article before deciding that it's actually valuable insight.

Qatar has NOTHING to be ashamed of as a net MAJOR SUPPLIER of energy...

The message you assert is not in the words of the article. I try to stick with information actually conveyed rather than trying to divine meaning according some ill-defined sense of what people "are really trying to say."

I see no reference stating that Qatar should be ashamed of anything much less it's energy production. BTW, as far as I know Qatar's actual energy production is quite small, though they do produce a significant amount of oil that is bought by others. So while the nation is a large producer of fuel feedstock (oil) it technically isn't a major energy producer.

So you screen and read these articles without so much as an OUNCE of self-generated critical thinking???? Letme splain this to you....

I see no reference stating that Qatar should be ashamed of anything much less it's energy production.

Howz about ---

Qatar is offered an opportunity when it hosts the UN forum on climate change in December, say veteran watchers of the process.
Qatar’s population of less than 2mn pumps out some 53.5 tonnes per person of heat-trapping carbon dioxide into the atmosphere per year, according to UN statistics.
This is 20 tonnes more than the closest runner-up (the United Arab Emirates), three times more than the US, 10 times more than China - and a massive 36 times more than the average Indian.

Isn't the entire (FALSE) premise of that intro that the average citizen of Qatar is responsible for 38 TIMES the co2 emission of an Indian. And here's the critical thinking that SHOULD have been applied. This attempt to shift guilt to the individuals of Qatar is totally misfounded since the emissions should be charged to the CUSTOMERS of the energy surplus that Qatar produces and the US interests in that region that consume massive amounts of that energy.

A one minute cross-check on Google will validate my interpretation.. If the citizens of Qatar derived ALL their domestic power from solar/wind (impossible) they STILL would have a HUGE per capita number on CO2.

So what is the "redemption" that the UN meeting offers? To get Qatar to give up it's highest source of income (fossil energy export) and assume the position of a debtor nation so that it's citizen's conscience's will be clear...

That's the desired outcome? Good luck with that.... Some critical thinking folks might consider that ---- ECONOMIC IMPERIALISM...

Try some facts, bozo.

Qatar
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Environmental issues

In 2005, Qatar had the highest per-capita carbon dioxide emissions in the world, at 55.5 metric tons per person.[56] This is almost double the next highest per-capita emitting country, which is Kuwait at 30.7 metric tons (2005) and they are three times those of the United States. By 2007, Qatar’s emission rate increased to 69 tons per person per year.[57] Qatar had the highest per-capita carbon dioxide emissions for the past 18 years. These emissions are largely due to high rates of energy use in Qatar. Major uses of energy in Qatar include air conditioning, natural gas processing, water desalination and electricity production. Between 1995 and 2011 the electricity generating capacity of Qatar will have increased to six times the previous level. The fact that Qataris do not have to pay for either their water or electricity supplies is thought to contribute to their high rate of energy use. They are also one of the highest consumers of water per capita per day, using around 400 litres.[58]

 

[flacaltenn]

My comment stands. You have not provided a breakdown of the use. If Qatar derived 100% of basic HOME domestic electricity from "green sources" (if a frog had wings) -- they would STILL exceed the per capita numbers because energy production is by FAR the largest reason for CO2 emission..

Question is ---- do you want them to die of heat stroke by turning off their air conditioners, thirst by denying them desalinization and water or economic starvation.. Another Imperialist weighs in as Rolling Thunder..

 

[Trakar]

So you screen and read these articles without so much as an OUNCE of self-generated critical thinking???? Letme splain this to you....

Understanding what critical thinking is, is the first step toward being able to usefully and accurately apply it.

Critical thinking - The disciplined ability and willingness to assess evidence and claims, to seek a breadth of contradicting as well as confirming information, to make objective judgments on the basis of well supported reasons as a guide to belief and action, and to monitor one s thinking while doing so. Clinical Epidemiology & Evidence-based Medicine Glossary

critical thinking is not about scooping up data and seeing how you can distort it to make it fit into preconcieved biases and prejudices.

[

]I see no reference stating that Qatar should be ashamed of anything much less it's energy production.

Howz about ---

Qatar is offered an opportunity when it hosts the UN forum on climate change in December, say veteran watchers of the process.
Qatar’s population of less than 2mn pumps out some 53.5 tonnes per person of heat-trapping carbon dioxide into the atmosphere per year, according to UN statistics.
This is 20 tonnes more than the closest runner-up (the United Arab Emirates), three times more than the US, 10 times more than China - and a massive 36 times more than the average Indian.

Isn't the entire (FALSE) premise of that intro that the average citizen of Qatar is responsible for 38 TIMES the co2 emission of an Indian.

The only false premise I see is your assertion that this statement of fact is intended to induce feelings of guilt among either the House of Thani (royal family) or the Qatari people.

And here's the critical thinking that SHOULD have been applied. This attempt to shift guilt to the individuals of Qatar is totally misfounded since the emissions should be charged to the CUSTOMERS of the energy surplus that Qatar produces and the US interests in that region that consume massive amounts of that energy.

That is not critical thinking, that is your subjective assessment and considerations on how you would prefer such accountings be handled and largely irrelevent to the article in question, which isn't about assessing responsibility or culpability with regards to emissions, it is about the royal family deciding that in order for Qatar to remain a viable and credible economic force in the ME (and globally) in the transitional era away from fossil fuels, it must devote more of its efforts and investments to lead the way into these new technologies and economies.

A one minute cross-check on Google will validate my interpretation.

Confirmational bias often leads people to see supporting reflections of their beliefs, even in contradictory evidences.

If the citizens of Qatar derived ALL their domestic power from solar/wind (impossible) they STILL would have a HUGE per capita number on CO2.

Largely irrelevent to this thread and the OP article. However, if you exert effort to recover sequestered fossil fuels from the earth, and then seek profit selling these resources to others to transform into fuels, then you bear at least some of the responsibility/expense for the carbon that these fuels release into our planet's carbon cycle.

So what is the "redemption" that the UN meeting offers?

It gives the royal family the opportunity demonstrate its embrace and investment in alternative energy; many especially in the US, do not understand how heavily most ME countries are investing in and moving to alternative energy technologies both domestically and in their global reach.

To get Qatar to give up it's highest source of income (fossil energy export) and assume the position of a debtor nation so that it's citizen's conscience's will be clear...

Where do you see anything like this stated or implied in the article in the OP?

That's the desired outcome? Good luck with that.... Some critical thinking folks might consider that ---- ECONOMIC IMPERIALISM...

No, that is a strawman totally and wholely of your fevered imagination.