50 aid groups demand Israel lift Gaza blockade

[Billo_Really]

THANK YOU.

Your saying, that "If you showed any concern for Gazan children, I might have shown some empathy for that mother but since you have, on a number of occasions, shown complete condemnation and disdain for the suffering of Palestinian children, I could care less about that mothers story", has completely nailed my point.

In which I will adress to the point again, of which I really hate hypocrisy.

As an American, the Palestinian conflict with the Israelis doesn't affect youu. Of course, you like all Americans, worry for where your taxes go, but you don't feel the danger and difficulty of this conflict on your flesh.

Guess what, sugar? I do.

So this statement of yours, besided proving my point, is also misplaced.

If you think my statement proves your point, then you obviously, didn't understand mine. When we are discussing the suffering of Gazan children as a result of the occupation, blockade and Israeli war crimes, I don't want to hear your stories about the suffering of Israeli children. Because the two are not equal in their dynamic. And it's not because I don't care about the children of Israel, I'm just sick of you bringing up irrelevant information in order to derail the conversation and prevent any meaningful discussion of what the Israeli's have done.

There is nothing you can say, to justify a war crime. Just because one side commit's them, does not give the green light for the other side to commit them as well. War crimes are stand alones. That's why we have "universal jurisdiction". Any nation, any where, can prosecute any one, that has committed a war crime. You cannot justify them. So stop coming up with these stories that try to make Israeli actions seem okay or a proper response to a rocket attack. The rocket attacks are wrong; the occupation is wrong; the blockade is wrong; Israel denying the Pals inalienable rights to self-determinatin is wrong; and ALL OF THEM, are crimes against humanity.

The best thing you can do for Israeli children, is to stop making excuses for Israeli war crimes. You're going around trying to tell people the emporer has new clothes. That's how bad your position is.

do you think it's fair, Mr Loinboy, to preach morales that you won't be able to stand in yourself if walking in my shoes?

I say the very same things in my country about these two BS wars we've been fighting for the last decade. I've expressed my outrage over these asshole neocons, whom I put in the same boat as Likud. They're both war-mongering narcissists who don't give a shit about anyone, except the corporate pimps that pay their salary. I walk my talk. I'm no hypocrite. The door swings both ways in my world. I'm not saying I've never been hypocritical, it's just not my nature.

When cast lead took place, we have all seen the pictures, what happened in Gaza. Seeing a Palestinian mother weeping over her child is something that does something to your gut, and I did felt something seeing it. But 5 minutes later, when MY home was bombed, The only thing I could think of what "To bad you didn't die with your child and all your family".

situations where that I could look at those images and feel nothing. Heck, when one of those rockets injured a friend of mine in the navy, I personally wanted Gaza on flames. I felt JOY when seeing the stills of the war. All of those pretty souls here could "tsk tsk" me now, but those who never been in a war don't have any idea what it brings out of you.

That's just normal. Anyone would think that, if it happened to their home. I'd feel the same way, if it happened to mine.

Now knowing how angry you get when your home (and the lives of your family and friends) is affected by the illegal violent actions of others, can you understand why that community, to the left of you, is hostile? Because what has happened to you, happens to them, at 10 times the rate. So take your anger over your demolished house and multiply it by 10, then you'll be around the level of outrage, the Pals are at, over the inhumane actions of the Israeli's.

Why should YOU think I SHOULD care more about the happenings in Gaza than the happenings in south Israel?

I didn't say that. I said, you don't care at all about what happens in Gaza. If you did, you wouldn't be making excuses for continuing their suffering.

So you lecture me about not feeling empathy for a mother in Gaza? for mocking those human rights activists?

I'm lecturing you, because your side has committed so many more war crimes than anyone else in that area, it's ridiculous to constantly put all the problems on the Pals as theirs to fix.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

I do not consider them a terrorist organization, I consider them an organization that sometimes chooses to engage in acts of terror, just like Israel is a State who also sometimes chooses to engage in acts of terror.

I certainly agree that there are a million people in Gaza who are not terrorists, and deserve the same rights in life as any other person, but I do think Hamas is a terror organisation.

Terror is central to Hamas's basic tennents, and until they recognise Israels' right to exist and abandon terror as a method, they can not be considered a political party.

Saigon,

What right does the West have to set requirements for political parties in the Middle East? None.

I choose to go along with the 192 nations in the world, including all Middle Eastern nations except Israel, that do not see Hamas as a terrorist organization.

If I were to see Hamas as a terrorist organization, I would have to see Israel as a Terror State, or be a Hypocrite. And I do not see a real benefit to the labels, each time either side attacks civilians unlawfully they are engaging in acts of terror. Rather then attach a permanent label to both sides, I prefer to address the unlawful acts, when they occur. And no matter whether people on either side choose terror today or they did it yesterday, tomorrow is another chance to choose peace over war, to choose nonviolence over violence, to choose lawfulness over terror. The labels arbitrarily seem to take away those choices.

Sherri

 

[Billo_Really]

I certainly agree that there are a million people in Gaza who are not terrorists, and deserve the same rights in life as any other person, but I do think Hamas is a terror organisation.

Terror is central to Hamas's basic tennents, and until they recognise Israels' right to exist and abandon terror as a method, they can not be considered a political party.

But there are members of Hamas, that have nothing to do with terrorism. And as long as Israel refuses to recognize their right to exist, there's no reason for them to reciprocate.

Think about this, even when Hamas does things that have nothing to do with the conflict, nothing to do with terrorism, they're still treated as a terrorist act. What does street improvements have anything to do with terrorism? Yet when Hamas members in charge of public utilities put light poles along city streets, the Israeli's come in later and shoot out the lamps at the top.

Talking in terms of two equal sides fighting it out, is wrong! The sides are not equal. And Israel has committed far more acts of terrorism than Hamas ever will.

 

[Saigon]

Loinboy -

I totally agree, and this is also true of Hezbollah.

I think the example of the IRA and Sinn Fein is useful here - all of these movements have a 'military' wing which clearly uses terror, and also has a legitimate political movement which in some cases perform essential tasks (welfare, providing food, education, roads etc).

In an ideal world we would see Hamas and Hezbollah make the same transition Sinn Fein made, moving from terror to politics, and reaping the rewards with recognition and a seat at the negotiating table.

 

[Billo_Really]

Saigon,

What right does the West have to set requirements for political parties in the Middle East? None.

I choose to go along with the 192 nations in the world, including all Middle Eastern nations except Israel, that do not see Hamas as a terrorist organization.

If I were to see Hamas as a terrorist organization, I would have to see Israel as a Terror State, or be a Hypocrite. And I do not see a real benefit to the labels, each time either side attacks civilians unlawfully they are engaging in acts of terror. Rather then attach a permanent label to both sides, I prefer to address the unlawful acts, when they occur. And no matter whether people on either side choose terror today or they did it yesterday, tomorrow is another chance to choose peace over war, to choose nonviolence over violence, to choose lawfulness over terror. The labels arbitrarily seem to take away those choices.

Sherri

Unfortunately, the Knesset is in the process of criminalizing dissent. And a lot of the new laws they're enacting, are targeting jewish human rights groups in Israel, that are speaking out against the governments policy towards the Palestinian's. There are jews in Israel that side with the Palestinian's when it comes to respecting their human rights, but still support their own country's right to exist. Rabbi's for Human Rights is a good example. They love Israel. They love everything about their jewry. But they're against the occupation. So now they are treated like Palestinian's, by the Israeli government.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I do not consider them a terrorist organization, I consider them an organization that sometimes chooses to engage in acts of terror, just like Israel is a State who also sometimes chooses to engage in acts of terror.

I certainly agree that there are a million people in Gaza who are not terrorists, and deserve the same rights in life as any other person, but I do think Hamas is a terror organisation.

Terror is central to Hamas's basic tennents, and until they recognise Israels' right to exist and abandon terror as a method, they can not be considered a political party.

I normally agree with you but you did bring up a couple of points.

What options does Hamas have when Israel's military is out of reach of their capabilities?

Why are the Palestinians required to recognize Israel's "right" to occupy Palestine? I find that to be a rather odd request.

 

[Billo_Really]

Loinboy -

I totally agree, and this is also true of Hezbollah.

I think the example of the IRA and Sinn Fein is useful here - all of these movements have a 'military' wing which clearly uses terror, and also has a legitimate political movement which in some cases perform essential tasks (welfare, providing food, education, roads etc).

In an ideal world we would see Hamas and Hezbollah make the same transition Sinn Fein made, moving from terror to politics, and reaping the rewards with recognition and a seat at the negotiating table.

What's funny is, Israel used to fund Hamas. They helped create Hamas, as a response to the PA. At the time, they hated the PA and decided to support Hamas, because they were their competitors. Kind of like when Bin Laden was on the CIA's payroll fighting the Russian's in Afghanistan. The CIA, helped create al Qaeda and Israel helped create Hamas.

 

[Saigon]

What options does Hamas have when Israel's military is out of reach of their capabilities?

Why are the Palestinians required to recognize Israel's "right" to occupy Palestine? I find that to be a rather odd request.

I think Hamas should concern themselves with a long term strategy of dragging Israel to the negotiation table, of taking the moral high ground. I'd like to see Hamas advocate a two state solution, and to establish themselves as a credible and moderate political force - someone the west need not be afraid of.

When attcked, I think the Palestinians had their tactics right in Intifada 1 - with the use of non-lethal force. I'd like to see Hamas abandon terror and missiles, and where necessary resist Israeli force by putting thousands of people on the streets, with strikes or demonstrations or whatever gains media attention.

What Palestinians need is for global public perceptions to change, and for people in the US to start asking why the US funds Israel at all. That alone pressures Israel to negotiate.

Every time Palestinians fire a missile into an Israeli home, to shifts public perceptions back to the idea that Palestinians are just terrorists.

 

[SAYIT]

Right. Because every person in Gaza is a terrorist.

Honestly, Art, this really is absolutely henious posting.

How long have you been a supportoer of guilty until proven innocent?

On how many occassions can you name a country which has been helped by forcing its people even further into poverty?

I never wrote that everybody in Gaza is a terrorist. But lying seems to second nature to you.

It is however a fact that Gaza is controlled by a terrorist organization, Hamas. As long as Hamas is in charge in Gaza all international bodies and organizations should pull out. Hamas is outside the bounds of the civilized world.

There are 196 countries in our world, only 4 of those 196 countries consider Hamas a terrorist organization. I do not consider them a terrorist organization...

Sherri

Hmm. The US, Canada, Israel, Japan, and the 27 member state European Union all consider your terror-rat comrades to be terror-rats. So that 4 plus 27 = 4.
Yeah, that makes sense.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Loinboy -

I totally agree, and this is also true of Hezbollah.

I think the example of the IRA and Sinn Fein is useful here - all of these movements have a 'military' wing which clearly uses terror, and also has a legitimate political movement which in some cases perform essential tasks (welfare, providing food, education, roads etc).

In an ideal world we would see Hamas and Hezbollah make the same transition Sinn Fein made, moving from terror to politics, and reaping the rewards with recognition and a seat at the negotiating table.

Hamas has been doing that since about 2005.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

1. UN reports say Gaza blockade is legal, even taking to mind that the IDF used "overforce" on Mavi Marmara

WORLD - Israel used 'excessive' force, Gaza blockade legal: UN report

Michael Ross: UN rules that Israeli blockade is legal in blow to failing flotilla | Full Comment | National Post

Ahem, the "Palmer Report", did not have a mandate to review the land blockade of Gaza. They "interviewed no witnesses and had no experts to assist in the inquiry". They just did it to repair relations between Israel and Turkey, not to determine right or wrong with regards to international law.

The Report admits that it was intended to help find ways for Israel and Turkey to repair their relations, rather than to determine right and wrong based on international law.

BTW, even if it was legal, you still have to allow humanitarian aid to pass, you can't prevent it from going into the area.

So you're fucked either way. Legal or illegal, preventing humanitarian aid from reaching Gaza, is a crime.

BTW, the real reason for the blockade, shows that this is a war crime.

You cannot punish someone for a crime they did not commit.

Why would it be an attack on Israel, if they are entering Gaza?

If I'm driving up my driveway, do you think I'm parking on your lawn?

People have good reason to hate Israel. Israel has done some things worth hating. And the sooner you start dealing with that, the sooner this shit will be over.

Why should I learn about Islam, it's not my dance. It's just another way people worship. You scapegoat Islam, like the nazis scapegoated the jews. How ironic.

4. There are detales that i could not possibly say freely here, but the Israeli navy policy states that any suspicious or possibly dangerous should be stopped before entering the 12 miles area. Think about it as your house and garden. You would want to stop a burgler before he enters your house, while he's still in the garden. Of course this can be viewed as piracy, but somehow, i think that the critisizm would not have changed at all even if it was inside the 12 miles.

But we're not talking about an incident on your property, we're talking about something that happened in a public right-of-way. Which is something you don't control and is not yours. Boarding vessels in international waters is an act of war. It's only legal when you board the vessel of a country you're actually at war with.

5. The whole world hates israel because the world sadly, buys everything the Media says. And the media is not at all interested in the truth. Anti zionists here are 100% sure that they get the full picture of "wicked Israel" when they have not even spend 5 minutes talking with an Israeli or a Jew. so honestly? the world can f*ck off. people are showing off their ignorancy concerning Israel every single day. Anti semites and anti Zionists who can still lean on fake quotes like "we control America" and that are positive that the Talmud tells rabbis that it's ok to rape 3 year old girls, is not a world that i truely give a shit on what it thinks. It's a world of useful idiots and ignorants.

Well, if it makes you feel any better, I don't think you control America. Explain to me why the world hates Israel. For what reason do they hate Israel. I personally, could care less about Israel. Don't live there and they're not part of my daily life at all. So I have no reason whatsoever to spend the energy on this hatred you speak of, except on these BS, narcissistic responses you keep spewing out. You people simply refuse to be responsible for your actions. That's why I hate Israel. I hate all hypocrites! I think hypocrites are the worst form of human life on the planet. I wanna take their double-standard bullshit and shove it up their ass and out their mouth, so they can see the shit they say whenever they feel like saying something holier than thou.

BTW, why would Physician's for Human Rights hate Israel? Why would the ICRC hate Israel? Why do completely neutral organizations, have some deep seated hatred for Israel? What you're saying, makes no sense at all.

I just addressed on another thread multiple intl reports holding the Blockade is unlawful, collective punishment under the Fourth Geneva Convention, reports written before and after the Palmer Report, we have The International Red Cross issuing reports for years now addressing the unlawful Blockade of Gaza, we have reports by multiple UN groups holding the Blockade unlawful, we have the UN Human Rights Council carrying out a UN mandated investigtaion and finding the Blockade unlawful. Even the article in the OP contains a present day finding by multiple intl groups that the Blockade is unlawful, this report from June of 2012. About the Palmer Report, it was commissioned by the Secretary General, he has no authority under the UN Charter to commission such a report and bind the UN or States to it. Further, it was a political report, undertaken in an attempt to restore ties between Israel and Turkey, no interviews were conducted or investigation undertaken to independently determine facts, and according to the report itself, appears the important caveat that “its conclusions can not be considered definitive in either fact or law."

Turkey says demands from Israel unchanged in face of leaked UN report

Why the Palmer-Uribe report on Israel's flotilla attack is worthless | The Electronic Intifada

Sherri

 

[P F Tinmore]

1. UN reports say Gaza blockade is legal, even taking to mind that the IDF used "overforce" on Mavi Marmara

WORLD - Israel used 'excessive' force, Gaza blockade legal: UN report

Michael Ross: UN rules that Israeli blockade is legal in blow to failing flotilla | Full Comment | National Post

Ahem, the "Palmer Report", did not have a mandate to review the land blockade of Gaza. They "interviewed no witnesses and had no experts to assist in the inquiry". They just did it to repair relations between Israel and Turkey, not to determine right or wrong with regards to international law.

BTW, even if it was legal, you still have to allow humanitarian aid to pass, you can't prevent it from going into the area.

So you're fucked either way. Legal or illegal, preventing humanitarian aid from reaching Gaza, is a crime.

BTW, the real reason for the blockade, shows that this is a war crime.

You cannot punish someone for a crime they did not commit.

Why would it be an attack on Israel, if they are entering Gaza?

If I'm driving up my driveway, do you think I'm parking on your lawn?

People have good reason to hate Israel. Israel has done some things worth hating. And the sooner you start dealing with that, the sooner this shit will be over.

Why should I learn about Islam, it's not my dance. It's just another way people worship. You scapegoat Islam, like the nazis scapegoated the jews. How ironic.

But we're not talking about an incident on your property, we're talking about something that happened in a public right-of-way. Which is something you don't control and is not yours. Boarding vessels in international waters is an act of war. It's only legal when you board the vessel of a country you're actually at war with.

5. The whole world hates israel because the world sadly, buys everything the Media says. And the media is not at all interested in the truth. Anti zionists here are 100% sure that they get the full picture of "wicked Israel" when they have not even spend 5 minutes talking with an Israeli or a Jew. so honestly? the world can f*ck off. people are showing off their ignorancy concerning Israel every single day. Anti semites and anti Zionists who can still lean on fake quotes like "we control America" and that are positive that the Talmud tells rabbis that it's ok to rape 3 year old girls, is not a world that i truely give a shit on what it thinks. It's a world of useful idiots and ignorants.

Well, if it makes you feel any better, I don't think you control America. Explain to me why the world hates Israel. For what reason do they hate Israel. I personally, could care less about Israel. Don't live there and they're not part of my daily life at all. So I have no reason whatsoever to spend the energy on this hatred you speak of, except on these BS, narcissistic responses you keep spewing out. You people simply refuse to be responsible for your actions. That's why I hate Israel. I hate all hypocrites! I think hypocrites are the worst form of human life on the planet. I wanna take their double-standard bullshit and shove it up their ass and out their mouth, so they can see the shit they say whenever they feel like saying something holier than thou.

BTW, why would Physician's for Human Rights hate Israel? Why would the ICRC hate Israel? Why do completely neutral organizations, have some deep seated hatred for Israel? What you're saying, makes no sense at all.

I just addressed on another thread multiple intl reports holding the Blockade is unlawful, collective punishment under the Fourth Geneva Convention, reports written before and after the Palmer Report, we have The International Red Cross issuing reports for years now addressing the unlawful Blockade of Gaza, we have reports by multiple UN groups holding the Blockade unlawful, we have the UN Human Rights Council carrying out a UN mandated investigtaion and finding the Blockade unlawful. Even the article in the OP contains a present day finding by multiple intl groups that the Blockade is unlawful, this report from June of 2012. About the Palmer Report, it was commissioned by the Secretary General, he has no authority under the UN Charter to commission such a report and bind the UN or States to it. Further, it was a political report, undertaken in an attempt to restore ties between Israel and Turkey, no interviews were conducted or investigation undertaken to independently determine facts, and according to the report itself, appears the important caveat that “its conclusions can not be considered definitive in either fact or law."

Turkey says demands from Israel unchanged in face of leaked UN report

Why the Palmer-Uribe report on Israel's flotilla attack is worthless | The Electronic Intifada

Sherri

Of course all of them are wrong and Israel is right.

 

[Billo_Really]

Hmm. The US, Canada, Israel, Japan, and the 27 member state European Union all consider your terror-rat comrades to be terror-rats. So that 4 plus 27 = 4.
Yeah, that makes sense.

I consider some of them "terror-rats" as well; I just don't consider all of them terror-rats.

But you think that qualifies me as "comrade".

I understand you need to see the world as simply as possible and don't have the balls or the mental acuity, to deal with complex thought.

 

[Artevelde]

Loinboy -

I totally agree, and this is also true of Hezbollah.

I think the example of the IRA and Sinn Fein is useful here - all of these movements have a 'military' wing which clearly uses terror, and also has a legitimate political movement which in some cases perform essential tasks (welfare, providing food, education, roads etc).

In an ideal world we would see Hamas and Hezbollah make the same transition Sinn Fein made, moving from terror to politics, and reaping the rewards with recognition and a seat at the negotiating table.

You just keep spouting the same nonsense.

 

[P F Tinmore]

What options does Hamas have when Israel's military is out of reach of their capabilities?

Why are the Palestinians required to recognize Israel's "right" to occupy Palestine? I find that to be a rather odd request.

I think Hamas should concern themselves with a long term strategy of dragging Israel to the negotiation table, of taking the moral high ground. I'd like to see Hamas advocate a two state solution, and to establish themselves as a credible and moderate political force - someone the west need not be afraid of.

When attcked, I think the Palestinians had their tactics right in Intifada 1 - with the use of non-lethal force. I'd like to see Hamas abandon terror and missiles, and where necessary resist Israeli force by putting thousands of people on the streets, with strikes or demonstrations or whatever gains media attention.

What Palestinians need is for global public perceptions to change, and for people in the US to start asking why the US funds Israel at all. That alone pressures Israel to negotiate.

Every time Palestinians fire a missile into an Israeli home, to shifts public perceptions back to the idea that Palestinians are just terrorists.

You just mentioned some of the things they are already doing. Hamas was a major player in the elimination of suicide bombing about 6-7 years ago. They have personally stopped rockets and have reduced those of others considerably. Now they are rare and only in response to an Israeli attack.

The first intifada was non violent but the media never reported it. Now there are several non violent demonstrations every week but the media pretends there are none.

A lot of things have happened in the last 10-15 years that are tipping the scales toward Palestine and Hamas is taking advantage of them.

Prime Minister Heneyah has gone on diplomatic missions to several countries. Hamas MPs have also visited other countries. There have been many delegations visiting Gaza regularly. Recently an academic delegation visited the Islamic University in Gaza for joint cooperation.

 

[Artevelde]

What options does Hamas have when Israel's military is out of reach of their capabilities?

Why are the Palestinians required to recognize Israel's "right" to occupy Palestine? I find that to be a rather odd request.

I think Hamas should concern themselves with a long term strategy of dragging Israel to the negotiation table, of taking the moral high ground. I'd like to see Hamas advocate a two state solution, and to establish themselves as a credible and moderate political force - someone the west need not be afraid of.

When attcked, I think the Palestinians had their tactics right in Intifada 1 - with the use of non-lethal force. I'd like to see Hamas abandon terror and missiles, and where necessary resist Israeli force by putting thousands of people on the streets, with strikes or demonstrations or whatever gains media attention.

What Palestinians need is for global public perceptions to change, and for people in the US to start asking why the US funds Israel at all. That alone pressures Israel to negotiate.

Every time Palestinians fire a missile into an Israeli home, to shifts public perceptions back to the idea that Palestinians are just terrorists.

You just mentioned some of the things they are already doing. Hamas was a major player in the elimination of suicide bombing about 6-7 years ago. They have personally stopped rockets and have reduced those of others considerably. Now they are rare and only in response to an Israeli attack.

The first intifada was non violent but the media never reported it. Now there are several non violent demonstrations every week but the media pretends there are none.

A lot of things have happened in the last 10-15 years that are tipping the scales toward Palestine and Hamas is taking advantage of them.

Prime Minister Heneyah has gone on diplomatic missions to several countries. Hamas MPs have also visited other countries. There have been many delegations visiting Gaza regularly. Recently an academic delegation visited the Islamic University in Gaza for joint cooperation.

More terrorist propaganda.

 

[Lipush]

If Israel lifts the blockade the noble peace loving, life loving Palestinians wouldn't smuggle in any weapons to be used against Israel, right Tinmore?

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) — Fifty international aid groups and U.N. agencies on Thursday urged Israel to open Gaza's borders, saying its border blockade violates international law and indiscriminately harms Gaza's 1.6 million people.

However, international aid agencies say the blockade mainly punishes ordinary Gazans by crippling the territory's economy, forcing foreign donors to spend money on humanitarian relief instead of investing in the economy.

"What Gaza needs is real development, but because of the blockade we are obliged to concentrate on humanitarian work," Filippo Grandi, head of the U.N. Relief and Works Agency, told reporters in Gaza on Thursday. UNRWA is Gaza's biggest foreign agency, supporting some 1.2 million refugees and their descendants in the territory.

Spending on emergency needs, such as food and medicine, does not address fundamental problems, Grandi said. "In fact, it's a waste of money, but a waste we are obliged to make because of the blockade," he added.

50 aid groups demand Israel lift Gaza blockade - Yahoo! News

MJB,

Israel needs to lift the Blockade and end the Occupation, and then there would be no need for weapons to be smuggled. Of course, Palestinians should freely be able to acquire weapons, just like Israel is allowed to do this.

Why do you see Palestinians as children of a lesser God?

Just because Lipush's Rabbis in Israel see Creation as for Jews alone, that does not mean the rest of the 8 billion nonJews in our world have to simply accept that and accept being children of a lesser God.

I do not accept that I, a Believer in Jesus Christ and an American, am a child of a lesser God. Nor are Palestinians or other Arabs or other residents of the Middle East, children of a lesser God.

Children of a Lesser God

Sherri

My Rabbis see "creation as for Jews alone"? That purely anti-jewish remark.

Now you're a JEW hating creep, as well?

 

[Lipush]

THANK YOU.

Your saying, that "If you showed any concern for Gazan children, I might have shown some empathy for that mother but since you have, on a number of occasions, shown complete condemnation and disdain for the suffering of Palestinian children, I could care less about that mothers story", has completely nailed my point.

In which I will adress to the point again, of which I really hate hypocrisy.

As an American, the Palestinian conflict with the Israelis doesn't affect youu. Of course, you like all Americans, worry for where your taxes go, but you don't feel the danger and difficulty of this conflict on your flesh.

Guess what, sugar? I do.

So this statement of yours, besided proving my point, is also misplaced.

If you think my statement proves your point, then you obviously, didn't understand mine. When we are discussing the suffering of Gazan children as a result of the occupation, blockade and Israeli war crimes, I don't want to hear your stories about the suffering of Israeli children. Because the two are not equal in their dynamic. And it's not because I don't care about the children of Israel, I'm just sick of you bringing up irrelevant information in order to derail the conversation and prevent any meaningful discussion of what the Israeli's have done.

There is nothing you can say, to justify a war crime. Just because one side commit's them, does not give the green light for the other side to commit them as well. War crimes are stand alones. That's why we have "universal jurisdiction". Any nation, any where, can prosecute any one, that has committed a war crime. You cannot justify them. So stop coming up with these stories that try to make Israeli actions seem okay or a proper response to a rocket attack. The rocket attacks are wrong; the occupation is wrong; the blockade is wrong; Israel denying the Pals inalienable rights to self-determinatin is wrong; and ALL OF THEM, are crimes against humanity.

The best thing you can do for Israeli children, is to stop making excuses for Israeli war crimes. You're going around trying to tell people the emporer has new clothes. That's how bad your position is.

do you think it's fair, Mr Loinboy, to preach morales that you won't be able to stand in yourself if walking in my shoes?

I say the very same things in my country about these two BS wars we've been fighting for the last decade. I've expressed my outrage over these asshole neocons, whom I put in the same boat as Likud. They're both war-mongering narcissists who don't give a shit about anyone, except the corporate pimps that pay their salary. I walk my talk. I'm no hypocrite. The door swings both ways in my world. I'm not saying I've never been hypocritical, it's just not my nature.

That's just normal. Anyone would think that, if it happened to their home. I'd feel the same way, if it happened to mine.

Now knowing how angry you get when your home (and the lives of your family and friends) is affected by the illegal violent actions of others, can you understand why that community, to the left of you, is hostile? Because what has happened to you, happens to them, at 10 times the rate. So take your anger over your demolished house and multiply it by 10, then you'll be around the level of outrage, the Pals are at, over the inhumane actions of the Israeli's.

Why should YOU think I SHOULD care more about the happenings in Gaza than the happenings in south Israel?

I didn't say that. I said, you don't care at all about what happens in Gaza. If you did, you wouldn't be making excuses for continuing their suffering.

So you lecture me about not feeling empathy for a mother in Gaza? for mocking those human rights activists?

I'm lecturing you, because your side has committed so many more war crimes than anyone else in that area, it's ridiculous to constantly put all the problems on the Pals as theirs to fix.

That is where you're wrong.

I don't think I am in a wrong position. I don't think I am on the wrong side of the map, either.

Because it's not about the occupation, or Gaza, or the west bank. never was.

two weeks after the disangagement a terror attack took place. WHY? can you answer that question? TWO WEEKS!

while sharon sold us the story that after the disangagement things will get better, if we only expel thousands of Jews out of tgheir home, they will not have any reason to hate, they will understand that we do something to help the situation.

I'm talking about before the blockade.

You know what they showed on their television? That's the "coward zionists" were defeated and one day the Palestinian Muslim will wake up to see us all gone.

Are those the people we're supposed to make peace with? Yuck!

2. Each time you talk about the suffering in Gaza, I will stpeak about the suffering in Israel. Contrary of what you might think, those two cannot be separated. The targeted killing, the blockade, the terror, if not for the war crimes being made by Hamas, Jihad, and all others of their likings, there would have been no problem in peace making, niether there will be the occupation problem, if the Palestinian organizations were not so obssessed in killing Jews.

Not only in Israel, but worldwide.

No matter how angry I'll be in war, no matter how much I will wish for them to die, i will not cross the border of killing an innocent person.

Palestinians crossed that border, many times. The sniper who shot Shalhevet Pass, 10 months old, in her crib, didn't do it because of the occupation. Because that baby did not occupy anything. The people who stabbed El'ad Fogel, 4 years old, to death, while sleeping in his bed, cannot make any excuse that it's the occupation either.

Ilan Halimi was murdered by the same "oppressed people". He was otrtured to death, simply for being a Jew.

It's not me who's making excuses to ignore the occupation "war crime". It's people tagging any crime against jews as "crimes of occupation".

I will never be able to go stab or shoot a Palestinian mother or child. Never. Because I believe that I will have to give the answer to a higher being when the time comes.

On that, my conscience is clean.

3. I have never put all wrongs on the Palestinians. I know that they are nothing but captives in their own way of living and believing. I know that not every single one of them wants to kill Jews for Allah. I know that Israel is far from having a clean record. I have never denied that either.

I simply have a different point of view, of what is concidered a war crime and what isn't. Some people see the blockade as war crime. some see the killing of Jewish people as something natural not wirth thinking about.

we all have different defenisions of the situation.

 

[Lipush]

No, you just don't give a shit about human rights, period.

Huh?

No, that's what illogical reasoning is.

That's their stated goal.

That's because the other side of the border won't talk to them. They asked for access to the people in charge who took part in the operations, the boots on the ground, so to speak, but were denied access by the Israeli government.

Well, it wouldn't be worse in the other, if the other, would just stop breaking the law and committing crimes against humanity. When someone commits a crime, the last thing people should do, is to worry about making things worse for the criminal. If he didn't want things to get worse, he shouldn't have committed the crime!

Do you really expect them to look the other way when you murder a para-palegic?

What's up with that? Was the Mossad to busy to handle it themselves, so they contracted out to al Qaeda? Farmed out the work to one of their competitors?

Doesn't surprize me. We pay the Taliban to guard our convoys in Afghanistan. As long the check clears, they won't shoot at us.

That's in reference to 45 years of oppression the Israeli's have been inflicting on the Palestinian's.

I don't know what he's talking about there, unless the people in the south are in these illegal settlements. Then they're nothing but jewish insurgents. But I will say, Israeli citizens, living in Israel, should not be targeted for attack.

You know, if showed any concern for Gazan children, I might have shown some empathy for that mother; but since you have, on a number of occasions, shown complete condemnation and disdain for the suffering of Palestinian children, I could care less about that mothers story.

Hey, I just realized your last statement, proved your first statement. We've come full circle. How 'bout that? You started your post claiming you hated hypocrisy, then you ended it, demonstrating hypocrisy. You want us to feel sorry for Israeli children, but then turn around and argue the legality of a blockade that punishes an entire population of Gazan children. And when presented with the evidence showing the amount of suffering Gazan children are having to endure, you're not interested in even discussing it. Yet, you expect people to have concern for Israeli children.

THANK YOU.

Your saying, that "If you showed any concern for Gazan children, I might have shown some empathy for that mother; but since you have, on a number of occasions, shown complete condemnation and disdain for the suffering of Palestinian children, I could care less about that mothers story", has completely nailed my point.

In which I will adress to the point again, of which I really hate hypocrisy.

As an American, the Palestinian conflict with the Israelis doesn't affect youu. Of course, you like all Americans, worry for where your taxes go, but you don't feel the danger and difficulty of this conflict on your flesh.

Guess what, sugar? I do.

So this statement of yours, besided proving my point, is also misplaced.

do you think it's fair, Mr Loinboy, to preach morales that you won't be able to stand in yourself if walking in my shoes?

I don't think it is.

I have said in previous posts to Mr Tinmore, and Saigon, that I am not pretending to be something that I am not, and I don't search for answers in case I am not interested in them.

I lived in south Israel all my life. I don't remember any other home besides the Negev desert. I don't remember any other view from my house then the hills of sand.

And just like the Palestinians on the other side, my home is at risk. Every time a Palestinian is injured or killed in Gaza, I know that will influence me.

When cast lead took place, we have all seen the pictures, what happened in Gaza. Seeing a Palestinian mother weeping over her child is something that does something to your gut, and I did felt something seeing it. But 5 minutes later, when MY home was bombed, The only thing I could think of what "To bad you didn't die with your child and all your family".

situations where that I could look at those images and feel nothing. Heck, when one of those rockets injured a friend of mine in the navy, I personally wanted Gaza on flames. I felt JOY when seeing the stills of the war. All of those pretty souls here could "tsk tsk" me now, but those who never been in a war don't have any idea what it brings out of you.

I have said it before, that when my house, my town, anything I know as home, is bombed, destroyed, ruined, by people that condemn collective punishment, but in their hypocrist have NO PROBLEM doing it to US, don't they try to preach us morales. I have no power, no interest, and no need, to feel great empathy for a mother in Gaza, when I am to worried about mothers in Israel. when I am worried about my OWN mother. Because she's sick, and invalid, and she cannot run to the bomb shelter. Does the mother in Gaza think of that? no. Then why should I?

Why should YOU think I SHOULD care more about the happenings in Gaza than the happenings in south Israel?

In case you were in my position, you would not have. I bet niether of you, to call us ZioNazis, would have done better in our position.

So you lecture me about not feeling empathy for a mother in Gaza? for mocking those human rights activists?

Really?

...but those who never been in a war don't have any idea what it brings out of you.

Indeed, you should get Israel to stop its war against Palestine.

that will be done easily, once the Palestinians will stop their war against the Jews.

(Not Israelis. Jews)

 

[Lipush]

What options does Hamas have when Israel's military is out of reach of their capabilities?

Why are the Palestinians required to recognize Israel's "right" to occupy Palestine? I find that to be a rather odd request.

I think Hamas should concern themselves with a long term strategy of dragging Israel to the negotiation table, of taking the moral high ground. I'd like to see Hamas advocate a two state solution, and to establish themselves as a credible and moderate political force - someone the west need not be afraid of.

yeah. THAT's gonna happen! ROFL.